The Mystery Man' Secret (Karl on Ice)

[H2O Man]

Three quotes on the situation with Karl Rove that should be of interest, and clarify why he is scheduled to chat with Patrick Fitzgerald in front of the grand jury next week.

{1} "Fitzgerald is intentionally keeping reporters and everyone else guessing as to what's really going on in his head. Last week, NEWSWEEK has learned, after Time's Matthew Cooper provided grand-jury testimony on his July 11, 2003, conversation with Karl Rove, Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, placed a call to Fitzgerald to make sure he didn't need anything more from Rove in light of Cooper's claims. Fitzgerald didn't bite: 'We'll get back to you,' the prosecutor replied curtly, and quickly got off the line."
-- "The Mystery Man"; Darman & Isikoff; Newsweek; 7-25-05; page 32.

"Apparently, according to two journalist sources of mine, when Rove learned that he might have violated the law, he turned on Cheney and Libby and made it clear that he held them responsible for the problem they had created for the administration."
-- "The Politics of Truth"; Joseph Wilson; 2004; page 444.

"(Mark Felt) gave me a little lecture about breaking a conspiracy like Watergate. 'You build convincingly from the outer edges in, you get ten times the evidence you need against the Hunts and Liddys. They feel hopelessly finished -- they may not talk right away, but the grip is on them. Then you move up and do the same thing at the next level."
--"The Secret Man"; Bob Woodward; 2005; page 91.

Comments and questions are appreciated. I think DUers should compile a nice booklet to send Karl for his term of incarceration.

[Why Syzygy]

1. He has children, you know

Remember when people showed up at his house protesting, and he was "appalled" that they would put his children through that?

Daddy behind bars. How about that one, Karl? Nice touch?
These people need to reign themselves in. After they pay the price for their crimes.

[H2O Man]

2. Many people

benefit from incarceration. Malcolm said it can be as good a place to study as a university. Karl may find that when one door closes, another opens. That should make the clanging of his cell door a bit more cheerful.

[Why Syzygy]

5. Yeah. Maybe

he can start a bible study.

[Sal Minella]

7. But Karl said, the more educated people are, the more likely they

are to vote Democratic -- so if he takes college courses while he's in prison, he make come out ready to work for the DNC. How's that for a scary thought?

We can just tell him we don't hire convicted felons, but thanks for thinking of us.

The full quote was something like "The more education people have, the more likely they are to vote Democratic, which proves you can have too much of a good thing."

[Why Syzygy]

8. Now there is a ringing endorsement

for dummy down. :eyes:

[leftchick]

14. Now There is a scary thought!

Karl exiting prison after "studying" for ten years.

[BrotherBuzz]

16. Ummm, Mein Kampf was written in jail....

I'm just saying...:shrug:

[MADem]

28. Yeah, but so was THIS

Martin Luther King's
Letter from Birmingham Jail
April 16, 1963

MY DEAR FELLOW CLERGYMEN:

While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement calling my present activities "unwise and untimely." Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would have little time for anything other than such correspondence in the course of the day, and I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine good will and that your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your statements in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.

I think I should indicate why I am here In Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against "outsiders coming in." I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty-five affiliated organizations across the South, and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct-action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise. So I, along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here I am here because I have organizational ties here.

But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their "thus saith the Lord" far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco-Roman world, so am I. compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.

Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds. ...

http://www.nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/MLK-jail.html

[Me.]

33. *Sigh*

What a Loss!

[BrotherBuzz]

36. LOL, like Rove would suddenly develop a case of altruism?

:rofl:

[MADem]

45. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you n/t

[H2O Man]

43. Yet "The Apprentice,"

Scooter Libby's erotic novel, set in the early 1900s in Japan, complete with throbbing penis and pulsating vagina, was authored in the comfort of his office in 1996. The man called Scooter gave Judith a little tease of his skillful prose, a promise of things to come.

Could incarceration make him a more talented author?

[BrotherBuzz]

47. LOL, jailhouse erotica?

What better place for Scooter to do his double super secret background research.

:evilgrin:

[Me.]

48. Maybe He Learned To Write

from Lynne Cheney

[H2O Man]

49. Maybe he

influenced Bill O'Reilly.

[Tom Joad]

31. Chuck Colsen can comfort him.. and maybe James Dobson too

[Stephanie]

21. Valerie Plame has children too

Not that Karl would have thought about that.

[H2O Man]

25. Those dead

American soldiers were someone's kids. The dead Iraqis, too.

[No Exit]

22. Yeah, we know--they've been cloning pigs for some time now. n/t

[mitchum]

89. Wasn't that at: 4925 Weaver Terrace NW, Washington, DC, 20016?

[kohodog]

3. My question is whether Rove will testify against Libby/Cheney and

Miller/Libby will point to Rove/Bush. There are two sides of this coin, the neocons represented by Libby/Cheney, and the corporatists Rove/Bush.

I'd love to see both groups bring each other down. Word is (NYT) that Miller will be back next and possibly Libby too.

[H2O Man]

6. That's always the goal.

Although Scooter may write poetic lines about aspens rooted in the same cause, this is going to be a game of survival. The same tools of the trade that Karl has used against democrats are going to be used against Cheney/Libby now. Remember, both sides are pretending that they'll stick together .... and both are highly suspicious of the other, because Fitzgerald has kept them in separate rooms, so to speak.

[hvn_nbr_2]

35. Now there's a fun thought

The same tools of the trade that Karl has used against democrats are going to be used against Cheney/Libby now. Sounds like a good show.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if they'll all start the same tactics against each other over Miers too.

[nashville_brook]

37. my head just exploded.

that's the most wonderful thing i've read all day. where's my popcorn...

[Me.]

11. I Didn't Know That

Miller again? Hmmmm, wonder if that was part of her deal? Will this mean an extension of the GJ, or can he still get it done in 2 weeks?

[H2O Man]

12. It's not

part of the deal. Miller erred. She tried to protect Libby. Bad, bad, bad.

[Me.]

17. Are We Talking About

"alleged" perjury on her part?

[H2O Man]

18. There are some

people you don't want to play games with. Sometimes, trained liars have ways to answer questions that aren't quite total lies, because of the wording. But the intention might be to distort the truth. And sometimes people think, "Hot dang! Got away with that!" And then it comes back to haunt them. We own our lies.

[spindrifter]

4. the Bureau of Prisons

has a nice little informational booklet to orient people to what it is like...

[Me.]

9. There Seems To Be A Disagreement

as to whether Fitz asked Roverer to come in for the 4th time or Rove instigated the matter. What sayeth you?

[bleever]

10. Rove offered to come back in July. Fitzgerald only now took him up

on his offer, according to John Solomon's AP article of today.

[H2O Man]

15. The first of

the three quotes offered in the OP also makes this clear. Fitzgerald is in control, not Rove or his attorneys. The White House is actually shakey right now. There is not agreement on if Rove is "doing the right thing."

[MADem]

30. I think Rover is on the ropes, myself

...and Fitzie is calling all the shots.

[NewJeffCT]

13. thanks for the post

Replying now at lunch so I can read tonight.

[Cults4Bush]

19. Thought Rove was going in today and Judy was next week???

The question here is will Cheney (once given up by Rove)turn on Bushie wush??

[understandinglife]

20. I intend to send ALL of them an autographed copy of the pamphlet ;)

I think many of us have known since Feb 2005 that Fitzgerald had a major National Security case already well developed. If we know, then we can be certain that Bush, Cheney, all the WHIGers (including Rove and Libby), Bolton, Feith, Perle, Rumsfeld, .... realized it.

One can only wonder how many 'wires' and 'taps' and other forms of 'intercepts' Mr Fitzgerald and his colleagues have deployed in these past ~ 24 months. I'd certainly be interested in the contents of all the A/V recordings of Miller and her visitors :evilgrin:

Having been a 'neighbor' of many of Nixon's boys during the '70s and having watched the unraveling of all that massive arrogance and power, I'd say this one is almost a year ahead of schedule ;)


Peace.

[Me.]

23. Some Additional Perspective On Rove Testifying

“Repeat appearances carry the risk that the witness makes a mistake or contradicts earlier testimony”

`Imagine you're the guy sitting up on top of a barrel of water, only in this case, the barrel is filled with something much worse,'' said Barcella, now a defense lawyer at Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker in Washington. ``Usually you don't volunteer to get back up on top of that barrel.''

“There are three tiers: the witness, who is usually a storyteller with some information of relevance to an investigation; a subject, someone whose conduct is within the scope of the investigation; and the target,'' said Barrett, a professor at St. John's Law School in New York. ``It may be that Rove is moving between one level to the next.''

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

[H2O Man]

24. Yep.

My dad used to say that it can become pretty difficult to keep you lies straight.

[Straight Shooter]

26. I'd be more than happy to contribute a page to the "nice booklet"

Just as soon as I can find a local merchant who will allow me to photocopy my buttocks on their Xerox machine.

[CrackpotAmerica]

27. My impression of Fitzgerald is that he is very difficult to gauge or. .

persuade.

I am hopeful that he is as "Untouchable" as people are beginning to say he is. . .

Whatever he is, he has them running scared, which I am forever grateful!

:nominated:

[jazzjunkysue]

62. They'd have stopped Fitz by now if they could. That's for sure.

[Sydnie]

29. I have been thinking similar thoughts myself

With all the news surrounding Libby's letter to Miller, Rove's new command performance for the GJ ... I posted this last night, which fits well, I think.

....

all the leaks, like these, and Rove's intent to testify again, means that it has become a pissing contest between Cheney's office and supporters and blivet's** office and supporters. I feel that they both not only knew, but added fuel to the fire early on to shut Wilson up. Now that push is coming to shove, they are trying to pin it on each other.

Think about recent events. blivet** was on vacation when Katrina hit and Rove was in the hospital. Did Cheney rush in to nudge blivet** into doing the right thing? Did he step up to the plate himself when the real horrors were happening or did he leave blivet** twisting in the wind? When Cheney finally surfaces, he makes one appearance on the scene, but we all know he was on the "oil pipeline" issue from his undisclosed location.

Rove gets out of the hospital and kicks blivet's** tail into motion. But, Rove is not 100% yet, so it is a botched job at best. Cheney still ignoring most of what is going on, makes his vist, gets told off and screws off back to another undisclosed location until he has some surgery and then jets off again to parts unknown. He makes an appearance in the rose garden for blivet's** speech, and blivet looks extremely annoyed that he has to wait for Cheney to hobble down the stairs to stand next to him. How dare he upstage the boy king?

I think the administration is going through a temporary (maybe not so temporary) trial seperation and they are shoving each other infront of the bus every chance they get.

blivet** gives a speech that states statistics and facts about Iraq and their fighting forces, which has already been refuted by his own generals "on the ground" that very day.

Now, blivet** is marching out the terra alerts and the terra speeches to show what a "steadfast" man he is.

Can't wait to see if Cheney fires the next shot ... and where it might land.

But, then again, I might just have my :tinfoilhat: on a bit too tight. :shrug:
....

Play both sides against the middle can only work if there is a weak link. Just which one of the "support staff" will blink first is the question.

[Me.]

34. Well Put

Popcorn time as these truly satanic 5 year olds go at each other. Let's hope there's lots of screaming and pulling of hair (those who have it) and knocking out of teeth.

[jazzjunkysue]

63. I agree. It explains Miers: B** needs someone around he trusts.

In the power vaccuum, B*** actually made a decision all by himself, like a bog boy. And he appointed Miers.

It's really too funny to imagine, and too nuts to be believed.
:wow:

[Sydnie]

68. It is isn't it?

He finally breaks out of the box, all on his own, to appoint someone that was physically in the next office! :rofl: d'oh!

[jazzjunkysue]

70. Yep. The kindergardner in chief is finally getting his way!

Time to put that man-date to good use.

32. I don't quite get all this political intrigue

I don't understand Bush at all, is he a split personality, with his supposed faith on one hand, and his using lies to get us into wars on the other hand.

Anyway, my thought is that as humans, we are all vulnerable, and you can either use lies to try to get through life or you can use truth, but you can't control everything around you. If things are unraveling for people who are corrupt, they get very scared. Whereas if things unravel when you stick to the truth, at least you know you have done your best, and there is some calm.

[Me.]

38. Not Today!

Rove/Plame: Hurry up and wait

“Karl Rove's going back to the grand jury--but not today. "A source close to Rove said Bush's chief political adviser and his legal team are now genuinely concerned he could face charges," write Leonnig and Vandenhei in the WashPost. "As recently as a week ago, people familiar with Rove's role in the affair said they believed he was in the clear because, after Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper testified in July about his conversation with Rove, Rove had not heard back from Fitzgerald."

Sources at the NYT confirm that Patrick Fitzgerald says he's not done with Judith Miller. Is this just about Libby, or is the door still open to tossing her in jail again for her silence on other dimensions of the case? Let's hope so!”


http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2005/10/roveplame_hurry.asp

[Catrina]

41. Interesting

Regarding Judith Miller's agreement with Fitzgerald. Is it possible that while in jail, he made the agreement that she could get out of jail by only testifying about her conversation with Libby, and he kept that agreement. But is she now subject to having him bring her back to talk about other matters? Iow, was she tricked by him? Assuming that the agreement would extend beyond the agreed upon appearance before the GJ that got her out of jail?

I guess my question is, did the agreement extend beyond the actual testimony she gave, and would it be a violation of the agreement for Fitzgerald to call her back, unrelated to the agreement, about other matters? If not, she may now be asked about those other 'sources'.

As far as Bush V Cheney, imo, I think Bush and Rove are way more likely to take the first steps to save themselves. If that's what happened, then I could see Cheney and Libby et al, fighting back, once they felt they were betrayed. But I don't think they would have done so first, for some reason. Otoh, Bush/Rove crossing them might be a very big mistake, especially since they all know so much about each other.

This can't all have been just to get revenge on Wilson for publishing one article about the Niger issue. To involve so many people in an act of revenge that had so many legal ramifications, doesn't make sense.

[H2O Man]

42. "...revenge on Wilson ...."

One would almost suspect that the VP's office was intent upon derailing an investigation that Plame was overseeing, involving the reported sale of WMD components.

[Raksha]

71. But wasn't that the real issue all along?

Re >>One would almost suspect that the VP's office was intent upon derailing an investigation that Plame was overseeing, involving the reported sale of WMD components.<<

I've been reading in various sources on the Web for months that the "revenge" aspect of the thing was itself a front, or at most a secondary motive for leaking Valerie Plame's identity. The real reason was that her CIA front company (I can't think of the name offhand) was investigating WMD trafficking and was possibly getting a little too close to people in the Bush administration.

Edited to add quote.

[H2O Man]

73. I think it

is a huge factor. I have a problem thinking that the whole thing was a response to Wilson.

[Garbo 2004]

51. Reportedly Fitz still wants to chat with Judy about her conversations with

Libby. That's under the terms of their agreement.

Not primarily revenge, although no doubt they are a vindictive bunch. Most importantly they went after Wilson in an attempt to cover up the fact that they knew their fraudulent and dubious "intelligence" was crap but used it to lie to the public and justify their attack on Iraq. (That's what the WH Iraq Group and Office of Special Plans in the White House were for.)

[jazzjunkysue]

64. I'll be deleriously dancing in the streets. I mean it. Come get me with th

the nice padded wagon. I'll just bounce around the street smiling and crying that I've gotten my country back.

People will really wonder what loony bin I escaped from, when these rats are removed from my white house.

I never knew I loved my country so much until they stole it.
:patriot:

[NoBushSpokenHere]

79. That line says so much.......mind if I steal it for my signature

line? "I never knew I loved my country so much until they stole it"

[jazzjunkysue]

88. Be my guest. I am honored.

:hi:

[Burried News]

39. Fit them all with an Iron Mask and give Joe Wilson the key.

[Pithy Cherub]

40. This is a true test on using power without flinching.

Fitzgerald clearly understood the mission. If he had a sense of outrage at the beginning it made it worse because he developed the entire legal strategy around opposition and giving no quarter to liars. He also upped the power factor for himself by not leaking and having trusted colleagues. Fitz ratched it up even more by showing a willingness to engage the most powerful and put it on the record. Fitz is playing some serious high stakes legal poker, ultimately saying I KNOW every card in your hand and I still call you! That is a Legal Cool Hand Luke, if I have ever seen one.

Flopsweat can now fill the White House swimming pool. The little people of the White House are going down first, which totally screws up succession planning, then the next layer caves, now no one knows how to do anything, nobody trusts anybody else and it's every body for themselves. It took a while but he let the White house create and own it's Cluture of Corruption! Hats off to him!

:popcorn:
sp

[Garbo 2004]

44. Thanks for posting the Wilson quote. I remember reading something

somewhere that said when Rove found out he told Libby "I'm not taking the fall for this." Sounds like a more colorful version of what Wilson was told/wrote. I can't recall where I read that though.

Thanks also for the Woodward quote. I recall reading some time ago that reportedly the prosecutor leaned hard on John Hannah.

[H2O Man]

46. I think that

it will come out that Hannah and others folded last July (2004).

[Me.]

50. Here's Where They May Also Be Tripped Up

Joe Conason said in an interview today (as related to me) that for the first 3 months of the Plame investigation Asscroft was in charge of the case, and apparently there was a grand jury which interviewed everyone. Not having anything to fear, considering who was in charge, were not careful with their testimony, of which there were records retained. Has anyone heard about this?

[Disturbed]

52. Slightly off topic but

even if Rove was indicted, stood trial, and was convicted there would prolly be an appeal. This process could last for another two years. If all of this occured would the Silverspoon Sociopath ask Rove to resign? I think not.

[H2O Man]

53. Much like Nixon

did not want to cut his two closest aides. Great pressure was put on Nixon to fire them, but he was stubborn. At least until he saw that it was important for him to save his own presidency.

If Rove is indicted, he may not force Bush to twist in the wind on it. There is every likelihood that he is trying very hard to avoid an indictment by cooperating now. Rove is many things, but not so stupid that he would think that if he tried to stay on, that in a post 2006 congress, there would not be consequences.

[kohodog]

55. I heard Conason and that's what he said

He also said Salon was coming out with a new article tonight. It's been widely said that Rove's story was different the first time he met with Fitzgerald so that makes sense.

[H2O Man]

56. Yep.

And Judith suddenly found notes from a 6-03 conversation with Libby about Wilson. (Note: don't fucking lie to Fitzgerald. He'll make you pay.)

[kohodog]

57. A snippet from Conason's article: "Rove's nightmare"

Back then, Rove might well have assumed that the case would be buried without any undue inconvenience to him. The president had publicly predicted, after all, that the perpetrators of the leak were unlikely to be identified. There was no reason, at the outset, to think that an independent-minded prosecutor would take over from Ashcroft a few months later.

If Rove told the FBI agents the same story that he and McClellan were telling the press, then he might have set himself up for a felony charge of lying to a federal law enforcement official. And if he lied, then he need not have been under oath to have committed a crime.

Another intriguing possibility in the leaks case brings back the baroque personality of right-wing pressroom denizen Jeff Gannon, born James Guckert.

The New York Times reported Friday that in addition to possible charges directly involving the revelation of Valerie Wilson's identity and related perjury or conspiracy charges, Fitzgerald is exploring other possible crimes. Specifically, according to the Times, the special counsel is seeking to determine whether anyone transmitted classified material or information to persons who were not cleared to receive it -- which could be a felony under the 1917 Espionage Act.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2005/10/07/rove_inquiry/index.html

[kohodog]

58. Gannon the Great

Wouldn't it be ironic if Jeff Gannon was the person who Rove gave the memo to and is responsible for a charge of treason!

[Me.]

65. More Delicious Than Ice Cream

Thanks for the Conason link.

[jazzjunkysue]

66. (Insert Deep Throat joke here)

[Mandate My Ass]

81. LMAO

Never before this moment has the porn star nickname for the Watergate leaker been so appropriately bestowed. :rofl:

[jazzjunkysue]

87. Why, thank you. I am humbled. Love your screen name!

[Catrina]

76. Jeff Gannon was questioned by the FBI

after he interviewed Joe Wilson (I always wondered how a fake like Gannon/Guckert got to interview Joe Wilson) and in the interview, he asked Wilson about the 'CIA memo' which named his wife.

The FBI wanted to know how Gannon knew about the memo, because in the interview, he gave the impression he had actually seen it. Gannon, after acting like a big shot with inside info, backed away from his 'insider' status under questioning by the FBI, and said he 'read it in the press'.

They seemed satisfied with that answer, but maybe they should not have been. AIRC, Gannon was taken to task in Freerepublic by a poster named John Galt on his complaint that he 'did not know why the FBI had been interested' in him. That was an interesting conversation, even more so now, in light of all that we now know (and don't know) about both Gannon and the whole Valerie Plame affair.

But how could Gannon have 'read it in the press'? AIRC, the only press that mentioned the memo was the WSJ, I believe, sometime in October of 2003. We would have to know the date of the interview with Gannon/Wilson to know if he was telling the truth.

But recently, on his own blog, he said that the interview with Wilson was earlier than the first press report on the memom

Maybe Fitzgerald might want to talk to Jimmy/Jeff again ~ someone was paying attention to his blog, and asked him that very question, but he did not answer. This was a few months ago.

I'd still like to know why the press never followed that story and never bothered to investigate who let Jeff into the WH.

[H2O Man]

78. Illusion versus reality .....

it was easier to pretend Gannon was a prostitute who just wandered into the White House press corps, and who had no other background than the nonsense he posted on the internet as his legend.

If a creep kills a person in any state, within 24 hours the news will have a pretty solid biographical review of his life. Mr. Gannon? He remained a mystery man.

[H2O Man]

60. Re: earthmovers .....

"It appeared that politics was winning out and that the administration was intent on sweeping the matter under the rug. As late as December 5, 2003, 'a senior White House official' was quoted in the Financial Times, gloating, 'We have rolled the earthmovers in over this one.' "
-- Wilson, page 360

Lazarus has rolled that stone back!

[Me.]

59. Did She Actually Offer Them

or was she caught with her pants down, so to speak? Did someone slip up and tell on Judy? Because, why would she offer something Fitz didn't know about if she didn't have to?

[H2O Man]

61. You seem to be

speaking of Judith's reaction to reading the foreplay, er, foreword to Scooter's book.

He caught her. I say he caught her lying. Lying. Don't try to fool that man.

[Me.]

67. Or I Could Be Relating To The Gossip

which says she never met a story she wouldn't sleep with.

It just keeps getting better and better doesn't it? They were all so smug, so sure they could operate with impunity and nothing would or could stop them, even that gucky thing caught the disease. "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first elevate".

[H2O Man]

69. It's fascinating.

Many want to know the ending. I certainly do, too, but I think we should all enjoy the process.

[Me.]

72. At This Point

finally, seeing the writing on the WH wall, I am enjoying the process immensely.

[H2O Man]

74. I hope

for televised trials and congressional hearings.

[Me.]

75. Oh God

I hadn't even thought of trials, just getting indictments has been such a huge mountain...televised? No amount of words can describe the joy...

[kohodog]

77. Who will be today's Sam Nunn? n/t

[dogday]

54. The more information you find out...

the more information you can find out. And that is how it works...

[KoKo]

80. Thanks for keeping a Perspective for us...

It's important...:-)'s We get so down with the "spin" that it's good to keep a focus!

[Me.]

82. October Indictments?

or will he impanel another grand jury?

[H2O Man]

83. Well now....

I was thinking about writing a little essay to explain who Scooter Libby is. Not just the "top aide to Dick Cheney" business. But who he is. And how his influence is felt in the administration. That may be a key to understanding how Fitzgerald broke the case.

Some are concerned that Libby has convinced Miller to say she told him about Plame, and that then one or both of them told Rove. That has fallen apart, and it may be impossible to put it together again, in light of the State Dept memo. Both Libby and Rove told the grand jury they never saw the document. I think that I could convince you that this is not true.

[Me.]

85. I'm Pretty Sure From The One Or Two Things You've Written

that you would be convincing. So write it, as said in this thread, the more info there is, the more there is. Also, do you know if that skeletor Chertoff had a hand in any of this? He needs to be outed for his nefarious deeds t

[dkofos]

84. Let the Shit fly!!!

This will certainly be interesting watching these assholes go after each other.

Anyone want to guess how far the shit will fly??

:evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[paineinthearse]

86. Rove is toast...has anyone seen him in public recently?

:shrug: