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kimpossible Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:10 PM
Original message
Mystery solved: "They turn in clusters..."
I think I just decoded Scooter's love letter to Judy Miller. Remember that odd little quote at the end:

Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work---and life.

:eyes:
So I've been thinking, wtf? "They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them"? That's so lame it's got to be some kind of a coded message. Then tonight I was watching The Daily Show, and Jon Stewart said something about "they're all in this together." And suddenly it became clear.
:wtf:

They are in this together. And they are turning together. Turning state's evidence, that is - against Rove, and maybe against even bigger fish. The note must have been the signal that Libby, and whoever else he's conniving with, had decided to throw Rove under the bus. Libby wasn't worried about Miller's testimony any more; he had probably just signed an immunity deal.

Any bets that when this is all over, we find that the date Libby ratted out Rove was on or just before 9/15? Oh will it be entertaining to watch the indictments roll out!
:popcorn:
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked & Nom'd
because I'm giddy.

:P
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think that was just about leaves.
It doesn't really make sense as some sort of code.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. R U serious? It doesn't make sense to people who communicate in English
:rofl:
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. No... it's a Zen Koan, and it means...
"Your garage sale sucked this year but I have neon signs that will fetch a penny or three... thousand."

Jeez! Isn't it obvious?
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
59. The "they" are trees. The "turn" is referring to changing color.
The "clusters" are groups of trees. The "roots" are tree roots. Seems English-like enough to me, but perhaps I'm missing something.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
70. Editor and Publisher had some great commentary on it as well
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001261586
...Im proud to say that I was the first to print the full text of the letter, at E&P Online, early last Saturday. It had appeared until then only in PDF form on The New York Times site. Within hours, the blogs were linking, and posters were finding codes and conspiracies in Scooters suggestion that the aspens that Judy supposedly knows and loves out West would be turning together this fall...Some bloggers recalled a significant meeting of neo-cons and/or Iraqi exiles in Aspen, Colo., that Miller did might have attended. And so on.

I scoffed at first, but today I read a confidential letter from a top Washington editor who seemed to think there was something to this code business. So, silly me for thinking otherwise about Libbys closing passage: "Your reporting, and you, are missed. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work -- and life."

One blogger declared that Libby and Miller had obviously conspired to nail Karl Rove: Since all neo-cons are connected by their roots and grow in clusters, why pull the roots out of two neo-cons, when you can pull the roots out of only one (Karl Rove) and overall still have a healthier forest of (neo-cons) aspens.

Above ground, columnist Gene Lyons pondered that metaphor for a moment and then decided: Heres all I know: If Hillary Clinton had written Susan McDougal a letter like that, the Washington press would have exploded with indignation. Or would the TV talking heads be predicting indictments? ....

Now, the question is, who did she turn on? Who is the designated fall guy? And who tipped her to get ready--Bolton???
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. ...and Rove is not a Neocon. Just an old-fashioned Puggy sociopath.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. that was my thought early on... but when none of the
key bloggers picked up on it, it made me wonder if I was just grasping at straws... We should know before long, it seems....:shrug:
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Brilliant!
Makes a lot of sense. Scooter skedaddles while Rove is ruined.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. They turn in clusters because they are all connected
by the roots (Aspens).
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. hmm interesting
I'll have to ponder a bit more , but I think
you are close .
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. There has been a lot of discussion on this. It is the most intriging
thing yet in Plamegate. Some think the West means the US against a foreign entity/person. Remember, the fake Niger document came out of France?

Another thought relates to the West being Aspen, Colorado where they met not too long ago.

I was thinking that the West might be the West Wing.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here's a whole thread on this - Plus Dailykos thread - posted by Shraby
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4945143#4945143
4945143, Dailykos: Libby Writes IN CODE to Miller?

closed the letter on this personal note (although he wasn't quite right on when autumn begins): "You went into jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover--Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work---and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers."

<http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/1/132251/998 >


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Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. no conspiracy here - at least not in these sentences
Aspens like to propagate via underground runners, so the trees in a grove are all literally connected - to be pedantic, they're all the same tree. And judging by the ones I saw in the Nevada mountains last week, they really do all turn together.

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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
39. well, YEAH, they all turn together
Is that what a normal person blah blah blahs about to a friend who's in jail?

I'm as reluctant as anyone to do the conspiracy theory thing, but that aspen sentence was LAME.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. Those facts are true
But unless they had a tryst there or she raves about it on her "vacations in the West", why would that be the trees that mean autumn to people who live in the east? (Of course, though writing poetically he said fall rather then autumn)

If you have seen the brilliant reds and oranges and yellows on trees here...that would be what you think of, as pretty as the aspen turning are.
Their roots are not connected but they do change all near the same time so there is a long awesome show. When I lived out west that autumn show back home was the main thing I missed!

So while what he said was true unless it has a personal meaning we don't know about it doesn't make sense unless it is a vaguely coded message.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #45
71. Fall, as in someone else is gonna take the fall!!! n/t
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rppper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
81. Texas is considered a western state...rove and bush....
have homes in texas.....perhaps this is the "west" reference...
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Being forever hopeful that Truth will out, I read it the same way. I must
warn you though that I have my tinfoil hat neatly in place. ;)
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Justin Raimondo remarked on this.
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7490

Note: This is "take two" on an article that appeared 10/3/05. Material corrected and added. Worth a read.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. Thanks for the link....
A great read....wonderful timeline and historic view of this neocon mess.
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
79. A tree of neocons,spies,crooks and treasonous vermin..thanks
for the link. I really like Justin and that website,I have no idea why it isn't on my list of favorites.

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think something may be up...
I just wrote in a post--that I'm concerned about Fitz's deal with Miller. He agreed that she would only talk about her conversations with Libby.

I am worried about this--because that strongly suggests to me that Fitz needed Miller's testimony, and that her words were critical to indicting someone. Obviously, all signs point to Libby. Fitz's investigation is wrapping up just days after Miller testified. Whatever she said was powerful and important.

Again...I'm concerned that this case has become hyperfocused on Libby.

However----something seems off. Fitz has kept this case air tight for two solid years. No one has leaked any information and it has been widely reported that even the WH is in the dark about Fitz's findings and intentions.

So....why was all of this information surrounding Judy revealed? Why did it come out that Fitz agreed to only discuss Libby with her? Why did it come out that Judy would only talk about Libby? Why was this manufactured story put out there--about Judy erroneously believing that Libby had wanted her to remain quiet--as if some major misunderstanding had happened. We all know that is a lie!

Maybe Libby and Miller are lying--and Fitz has leaked this information--to create a front. Possibly, Rove, Cheney and others are doing down for this. If they knew Judy was testifying against them--before they are indicted--wouldn't that leave her just a little bit vulnerable?

She mentioned before--when she was in jail--that she was frightened of these people. That comment was an SOS and possibly Fitzgerald sat her down and they concocted a way--together with Libby--that they would protect her until these bastards are indicted and a mountain of irrefutable proof and testimony nails these guys.

Maybe Fitzgerald convinced Judy that he had enough on the Bush cabal to make the charges stick?

I do know that the discombobulated explanation, "I thought Libby didn't want me to talk...but I gave Judy approval" was a total fabrication by both Miller and Libby.

Something is up. Something REALLY BIG is going down.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. My theory is that Miller has turned... see my thread from last night
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. This may be a bit far out in left field but fits your REALLY BIG idea
Remember the Brewster-Jennings connection, the CIA front company that Plame worked for? There's been speculation that they were getting too close to someone very high up being involved in trafficking WMDs or WMD materials. Well, it seems to me that selling WMDs to terrorists or rogue, enemy governments would be a pretty good case of treason. The constitution requires two witnesses to an overt act to make a case for treason; if Judy Judy was the second witness to something that fits, that would explain why Fitzgerald was so anxious to get her testimony. Could it be that Rove isn't even the main one they're throwing under the train but it's Cheney? Oooohhh, I would love that. But like I said, it's pretty far out. I can't think of something that Judy could be the second witness to that would amount to treason and that nobody else would be the second witness. Ooohh ooohh, Cheney is from Wyoming too, aspen country (I think primarily of Colorado when I think of aspens, but I'm reasonably sure Wyoming has plenty too).
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
44. Miller's "fright," if you're referring to something previously discussed
here, was based on a snipped quote in a CBS news article which led some to infer that she was afraid for her life. But when one actually sees the full quote and context, it was about government power and the first amendment.

CBS story with snippet of Judy's statement before the court put her in the slammer: "CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports Miller said: 'I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful.'" http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/07/national/main707048.shtml

Judy's actual statement before the court: "If journalists cannot be trusted to guarantee confidentiality, then journalists cannot function and there cannot be a free press. Your honor, I believe that a free press depends now more than ever on people willing to express their views, particularly those in government. From my experience, and the experience of investigative journalists like me, I know that many of these people in government will not talk to reporters if we cannot be trusted to protect their identity. The risks are too great; the government is too powerful; the country is too polarized." http://www.rcfp.org/shields_and_subpoenas/miller_statement.html

As for limited testimony: Cooper, Russert and Pincus reportedly all gave limited testimony to the grand jury. They too cut deals with Fitzgerald regarding the scope of the questioning. Fitz didn't leak the info, the witnesses' lawyers did. A chatty bunch, they like to position their clients in the press and try to steer the stories, both with and without attribution. Miller's singular for many reasons, but not in that respect.

Maybe Fitz already had enough info on what he wanted that he agreed to limit Miller's testimony when he wouldn't do so previously. I'm figuring Libby discussed, testified about his conversations with Miller. Fitz already knew which gov't official Miller spoke to and he had already taken his testimony. That was in the public court record. Someone at some point gave her name to Fitz since she never wrote an article about Plamegate. Whether it originally was Libby, someone else, or Fitz just going through phone logs and Libby's daytimer who knows?

I think Fitz played a bit of a head game on Libby and Miller. He reportedly wrote Libby's lawyer with something along the lines of "Previously I thought old Scooter was just intentionally letting our dear Judy rot in jail to cover himself. But now I'm thinking what we have here could just be a failure to communicate. Y'all can talk to each other only about waiving confidentiality and I won't take it as an obstruction of justice . And shucks, if y'all don't release poor Judy who's just pining for the fjords, uh I mean Sag Harbor, I guess I'll have to conclude I was right and ya really got something to hide. Have a nice day." That got Libby talking to her on the phone and also writing somewhat bizarrely about quaking aspens right quick.

And then with our Miss Judy, Fitz reportedly threatened to empanel a new grand jury. That would mean instead of getting sprung at the end of this month, Miss Judy could be in the slammer for a year or more if she didn't agree to talk. She clearly enjoyed her martyr status, but prison for a year? Oy. And when Fitz now agreed to limit the scope of her testimony, it was her get out of jail pass.


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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #44
80. "...I believe that a free press
depends now more than ever on people willing to express their views..."

Funny how administration tool, Miller, so sooooo all about 'free press' being their big fluffy pillow when it suits them.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
66. I think the key was Fitz finally said he would only ask her about Libby
And what he asked her was "did Libby mention being asked to contact her by higher ups" Since Fitz could not ask her about any other person yet needed her testimony even after she had already outed Libby it had to be second hand info or corroborating information. As soon as Miller testified it appears Target Letters were sent out so she had important information. I think turning in clusters was Libby's way of saying it's alright because a lot of people have already turned states evidence in fact they turned in clusters. Probably half the people of the twenty one or twenty two have spilled their guts. just my $.02 worth.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #66
76. I think you are spot on...thanks for your thoughts n/t
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moc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bingo!
Great catch! This is getting so exciting!

:popcorn:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Um, the Aspens are a like one big root system,...for real.
They DO turn in clusters (a fascinating natural spectacle).

Not sure what all this "decoding" thingy is about.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Because normal politicians don't talk like this. Poets and fiction
writers do. Had to be code.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. Libby is a writer. Has been published. n/t
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Self-delete.
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 12:43 AM by Carolab
Dupe.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think Libby was thrown under the bus
by Hannah.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. that must have been a hallacious kidney stone
I hope he was never able to pass it and its stuck.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. That is an interesting analogy, to say the least....
Who knows? :)
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. Aspens
Aren't aspens pretty flexible and bend and sway with the breeze? That could be another reason for picking aspens--they're all bending in the breeze. Reminds me of a Robert Frost poem "Birches" about how they bend from the weight of snow and ice or from boys swinging on them. I think aspens are a lot like birches.
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. To everything (turn, turn, turn) there is a season (turn, turn, turn)
A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time to love, a time to hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late
--- Pete Seeger

Great theory, Kimpossible. I sure hope it's true.
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bmbmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #22
52. .Pete Seeger wrote the melody
the words come from the book of Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
72. But he added the "I swear it's not too late" bit
Wanted to make it a bit more uplifting than the bible version...
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
73. dupe, bouncy mouse
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 03:03 PM by MADem
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. The 'ratting out' to which you refer goes way beyond Rove ---
--- Bush, Cheney, Powell, Condi, Rumsfeld, Bolton, Feith, Perle would be my 'short list.'

Novak was among the first 'aspens' to turn, of course.

I keep urging folk to reflect on Judge Tatel's opinion in Feb, 2005. Devastating. Simply devastating.


Peace.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
56. What about Mary Matlin and Karen Hughs? I'm sure they know
everything and were part of the planning/cover-up team.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. Remember when she said, "the government is too powerful",
on her way to jail?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/06/national/main706715.shtml

CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart reports Miller said: "I won't testify. The risks are too great. The government is too powerful."


Hmmmmm!

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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #26
41. Read the actual full quote in context from Judy's statement to the court.
It's no where near as exciting in context as the CBS article makes out:

If journalists cannot be trusted to guarantee confidentiality, then journalists cannot function and there cannot be a free press. Your honor, I believe that a free press depends now more than ever on people willing to express their views, particularly those in government. From my experience, and the experience of investigative journalists like me, I know that many of these people in government will not talk to reporters if we cannot be trusted to protect their identity. The risks are too great; the government is too powerful; the country is too polarized. http://www.rcfp.org/shields_and_subpoenas/miller_statement.html

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petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-05-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. Libby's letter is dated 9/15; 9/16-18 there was a conference in Aspen....

Bashing Bush in Aspen

Sep 22, 2005
by Robert Novak

ASPEN, Colo. -- For two full days, George W. Bush was bashed. He was taken to task on his handling of stem cell research, population control, the Iraq war and, especially, Hurricane Katrina. The critics were no left-wing bloggers. They were rich, mainly Republican and presumably Bush voters in the last two presidential elections.

The Bush-bashing occurred last weekend at the annual Aspen conference sponsored by the New York investment firm Forstmann Little & Co. Over 200 invited guests, mostly prestigious, arrived Thursday night (many by private aircraft) and stayed until Sunday morning....

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/robertnovak/2005/09/22/155676.html
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Holy Buckets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think you just hit the nail on the head!!!!
Seriously.

I find this amazing!!!

Look at what Libby said, "Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work---and life."

He's telling her to look at "Aspen" (as in Colorado). He's saying that the Aspens (people in Aspen, at the conference) will all ready be turning (as in turning against the President). Libby is talking about the Republican base, and how they are abandoning ship. He's saying they will turn in big numbers (clusters) because they're all connected (by the same fundamental principles).

He's telling her that it's safe to turn--because everyone is turning against them.

This really fits!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're a genius!!!

I think this is one of the most important posts EVER posted on DU!

Judy and Libby have been friends forever. There's no way in hell that she "misunderstood" him and thought that Libby didn't want her to talk. She wanted to talk. But, she was scared!! She feared them and she so much, shortly after she went to jail.

Libby is telling her that it's safe to bring them down now--because the poll numbers are low and Republicans are even against them.

"Come back to work and life"....means get out of jail--quit suffering because of people who don't even have the support of their own party.

Wow!!! I hope many see your post. It's kind buried in here.

Just a suggestion, but I think you should start a post about that Aspen conference--with the date of Libby's poem and the dates of the conference highlighted.

I think this is huge.
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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Yes, this needs its own post.
Another thing strikes me.

_______________ is the root of all evil. They are connected by their roots. The MONEY people are turning. I think Libby has cut the deal with THEM, not necessarily with Fitz.

This is just a gestalt that has suddenly come together. It is important to note the author of the Aspen article. Full circle. Do they always communicate this way? Coded in easily overlooked articles by the Mockingbirds? Probably. Makes me want to go back and decode other pieces by Judy Miller, Bob Novak and others. Remember the cryptic message that David Kelly sent to Miller just before he died? Dark players or dark forces, something as mysteriously coded as Libby's message. Maybe her book will be worth a read. (j/k!)

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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Now THIS makes sense!
If the string-pullers are fed up and ready to "turn" against the ** all at once in Aspen...well, no wonder the poor boy has looked so beaten lately. His numerous appearances since then also seem to be the "Hail, Mary" even when they know he is on the brink of melt-down.

Miller and Libby will come out on the other side of this thing, IMHO. They take their marching orders not from **, but from the string-pullers.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. Yep. they've gotten what they want from this White House.
their assets are quickly becoming liabilities. time to move on to the next big scam.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
42. Good catch! I read about the Aspen conference but forgot about it.
never occured to me to connect it to Libby's bizarre reference. Very nicely done. That's a connection that seems to fit rather well.

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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
43. That's a very interesting read by Novak you posted. TX. n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #27
47. Great catch
plus the article is by none other then Robert Novak.

My dear Mr. Watson, I think you're onto something.

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. I think you're onto something.
:wow: I forgot about this column by Novak. Wow.
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kimpossible Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
63. Bingo!
I think you've got it! Looks like Aspen meant a lot more than I realized. If the big money string-pullers have turned against shrub & co, then it's all over for them.

:bounce: :toast: :bounce: :party: O8) :bounce:
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
64. HOLY FUCK!!! NOVAK WROTE THAT ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 10:29 AM by Beetwasher
:wow:

Libby gave her a message where to look and Novak followed up. Judy had to have read that article. Amazing. I do think you guys are right about this. If so, Chimpy could be in worse trouble than I thought.

It closes:

"It would be a shame if Rove returned to Washington without informing George W. Bush how erstwhile friends have turned against him."
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DoctorMyEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
69. OMG! Petgoat, you are brilliant!
THAT makes perfect sense! Perfect!

Written by Novack. They turn in clusters, connected by the roots - Bush's "fall".
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Gasping4Truth Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
77. kick - NT
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. I think Scooter was just trying to impress Miller by being all
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 12:08 AM by Marr
arty and sensitive, personally. I think he likes her. Maybe even LIKES HER likes her.
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ochazuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
29. Another similarity
Aspens seem to quake with even a gentle breeze.


That could be the bush admin. now: turning or quaking.
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Right.
The leaves twist and turn in the wind.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
35. DKos has an explanation involving Chalabi & Aspen Institute.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
37. bravo kimpossible!
One of the best threads ever.




Cher
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chalky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
40. Sorry--I got hung up on the image of Rove being thrown under a bus
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 01:18 AM by chalky
and stopped reading to savor the fantasy.

.

.

.

.

.


What was the question again?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #40
50. The Plutocracy is not happy with...
with the Sock Puppet and his screw-ups.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
48. kick
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
49. Song written & performed by Symbolman "Secret Agent Plame"
for Fitz!

It's the song I wrote and performed to honor Valerie Plame and for the credits of my film "Rove's War" that many here have been waiting for me to finish and ship.. (I was ill for about a month, really bad, better now tho)

Well, the film is done for those of you at the DU that have been so patient so I'll be sending your copies out in the next two days, meanwhile you can listen to the music I wrote for the credits (actually I wrote all the music in the film and performed that too, but it's a lot more low key)..

and I want to thank each of you for your patience, I apologise profusely but besides being very ill, I wanted to be sure and do a good job, so you'll probably be pleased with the two DVD set, 150+ minutes of hearings, (Downing Street Minutes with Conyers), graphics, hilarious right wing hypocrisy and a Chronology of the Plame outing from the beginning up to this point, that you'll be getting in the mail

You can hear "Secret Agent Plame" at http://www.takebackthemedia.com

Hope you enjoy, if you do, kick this thread and let me know and pass it around if your would, I want Fitz and Wilson, maybe Rove and Libby to hear this one!

Thanks again for your patience,

Symbolman

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kimpossible Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. I love it!
I just listened to "Secret Agent Plame". It's perfect!
:yourock:
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
51. there are 1000 possiblities - here is another "i b safe"
Edited on Thu Oct-06-05 08:49 AM by bushmeat
suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program

Suicide bombers
Biological threats
Iranian nuclear program

first letters in reverse

i
be
safe

:shrug:
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Considering the fact that Judy the enabler was a HUGE help to the Bush
administration with her insistence that Iraq had WMDs in the run-up to the war, I am totally focused on this little snippet:

"biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program"

Blair is already finger-pointing at Iran and this whole bird-flu thing makes that sentence huge to me. They want her to whore for them by diverting attention to Iran (help us make the American public want to attack them) and the impending pandemic (people afraid of dying of the flu will be scared - scared people comply much easier).
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. I was thinking the same thing. They want Miller back on their side
because they're losing the battle and she obviously has no moral qualms with whoring for the admin!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
55. dayam you are good!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
57. I think that's really all that makes sense to me
What else could it mean? And yes I've always thought if one goes down they all will, so if Judy ratted them out they'll eventually blame Bush. It's a revenge thing I guess.
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
60. Brilliant!
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
62. could back west, mean the west wing?
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
65. how did their presumably private letter get into the blogosphere?
is what i'm wondering. does anyone know?
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jasmeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I was curious about this point also. Are letters to inmates public?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
67. I think it's amazing it was in the NYT. Did he intend for it to be?
Or did he expect it to be kept private? Did Judy give it to Sulzberger? Or did Floyd?
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-06-05 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #67
74. She may have had it published in order to protect herself. nt
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
78. I think you hit the nail on the head
She could end up with a nasty case of bird flu, otherwise...
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
82. fascinating thread
All good stuff about the aspens and turning. And it is interesting that just today Miller found some notes, but part of what jumped out at me in this strange letter (and why was it made public?) was this:

It is fall now. You will have stories to cover--Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work---and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers."

"You will," not you could or you might. Biological threats? Too creepy.


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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. My guess
Edited on Mon Oct-10-05 12:36 AM by creeksneakers2
The last paragraph is a threat.

The earlier parts of the letter say that Libby wants Miller to testify because he feels what she will say will clear him. Especially with the contradictions about Miller's release in mind, it seems what Libby is telling her she's free to testify, so long as her testimony exculpates him.

Libby begins the last paragraph by reminding Miller of how long she has been in jail. One could look at this as telling her she can't hide out forever.

Then Libby tells her she'll have stories to cover. Then, for no obvious reason, Libby mentions possibilities in a strange sentence structure. Rather than list with commas, Libby writes - example and example, example and example. One of the items is "biological threats."

Judith Miller was a victim of a fake anthrax attack.

http://www.nndb.com/people/190/000050040/

"And out came this powder, a little bit on my face, on my hands, and on my clothes. And even that, Larry, did not alarm me. It is disconcerting, but it didn't alarm me until I got a call just then from someone who informed me about what had happened at NBC. And, at that point, I realized that the letter that I had gotten might actually be similar to the letter that had been sent to NBC."

I take the part about the aspens to signify that they are all bound together.

But the last sentence, "Come back to work - and life" seems most like a threat. First, its says "COME back to work," like she works for the same employer as Libby. Then it says "and life." Isn't this saying that if she chooses otherwise, she won't be coming back to life?


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amitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. Come back to work...and life
In light of recent information, I've wondered about Judith staying in jail, willingly, for so long. Maybe she was afraid to leave. Maybe she thought she'd be unsafe for some reason on the 'outside'. Maybe this note was a way of telling her all's clear...she's safe to come out?
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-07-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
83. So what's the synopsis about this? Can anyone summarize? n/t
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-05 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
86. I think they're turning on Cheney, not Rove
Rove is already caught red handed with Cooper's testimony.

I think the coded message was about Cheney, not Rove. Indicators are this whole thing was Cheney's deal. If they all point the finger at him, they can save the president and themselves. if they all keep lying and covering up, they could all go down.

remember, cheney went into the hospital in Aspen.
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