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Folks, ASWER didn't delay the march to get their speakers coverage

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:16 PM
Original message
Folks, ASWER didn't delay the march to get their speakers coverage
PDA was working with ANSWER and UFPJ on logistics. I was standing next to the PDA boss while he did this.

The march was not delayed so ANSWER could get their speakers more face time on the TV.

Nope.

The crowd gatheriung for the march got bigger and bigger and bigger...and the cops kept putting up barricades and stringing the crowd down the street...over and left, over and left, over and left...

...and the front of the march wound up thumping into the back of the march. Think of a huge crowd-donut stretching along Constitution, down 16th, to the left and to the left again, back down onto Constitution.

It was locked in, nowhere to go, the snake bumped into its own tail, and it took a while to get it sorted out. Barricades had to be removed, the cops consulted with, etc.

Again, organizing a march of this size is hard work, especially when the crowd overwhelms the police's ability to direct it.

This is what my mom would call a "happy problem," but it wasn't some ANSWER conspiracy to get TV time.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. this was my question saturday afternoon. thanks n/t
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. So why didn't C-Span show any of that?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Because C-SPAN has stationary cameras
and they always show the stage.

Here:



This is the back crashing into the front.

This is the rest:





It went all the way around the block.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I saw the last march via C-Span, though.
They should have gone to break and set up to film the march.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Right
OK. You film it next time. Be sure to find a way to make large stationary cameras mobile in a crowd of 300,000+.

Shoulda coulda woulda.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. It was so hard to move around
We were moving like two steps a minute for a while there. It took us two hours to get from the ellipse to the White House and that was with using the sidewalk when we could. I've heard that it took some people up to four hours to get to the White House.
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libnnc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. we were nearly crushed
scared the hell outta me for a while.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Will, when they did that World Bank demo, they had cameras in the streets
Same with the inaguration. They had them set up at major intersections with long lenses, and did extensive coverage of the marchers, with very brief commentary (usually telling the viewer what street they were on, or what that large building was). Same with the GOP convention, they were able to get platforms set up on the corners. It can be done, unfortunately, they didn't do it this time.

I thought the speakers started out great, and then declined at a stunning rate. To put it charitably, they went from GREAT to STUNK in precise order.

I think everyone here supports the goals of the marchers, they just did not appreciate the lousy view that uneducated TV watchers were getting of their effort, in addition to the hijacking of the purpose for which all were assembled, and forcing them to listen to niche issues when they were there to protest the war.

The bottom half of the program did not help the cause, frankly.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Well, they seemed to move them between Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday = pointed at the speakers, with little behind the speakers, hiding any crowd

Sunday = showing the speakers' backs, pointing at the miniscule crowd, making it seem larger.

CSPAN minimized the massive antiwar march, maximized the prowar mini-event.
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MaggieSwanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Thanks for the explanation, Will - and
especially for the photos. I was wondering why it took 4 1/2 hours to get from the Ellipse to the White House...and now I know.


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gimama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. the Cspan coverage
Let's ask 'em! viewer@c-span.org
The Cspan bends over backwards to be fair..and I have heard they are really being pressured to be more right-leaning. Last summer, they had 4 hours,LIVE of the NYC parade,which was awesome.. maybe they have some 9-24 rooftop video or parade footage they want to share?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Good idea
I remember the NYC coverage, as well as the inauguration coverage--absolutely superb.
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KyndCulture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. ah man, Will did ya have to go an say the "A" word again...
It had almost simmered down to a low boil about that around here... You instigator you...


:rofl:
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for the reality check.
I like term "happy problem." There are problems of failure, and then there are problems of success. Looks like the so-called ANSWER "problem" was the later, not the former.
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KerryOn Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. This was my perspective as well...
As I walked west up to 15th street toward the Ellipse my jaw dropped to the ground when I saw the size of he crowd gathered at the Ellipse. It took me a long time just get reasonably close to the speakers.

Looking up 15th street to the north form Constitution Ave, the street was jammed with people as far as the eye could see! People were still walking in on 15th street from the North as the march was trying to get underway from the south, causing the worlds largest traffic jam of protesters. Marchers were asking people to move to the side so they could get through, but there was no room. It took some time, but eventually things started moving.

My own estimate put the crowd at 300,000 easy! As the first marchers arrived west of the Washington Monument, protesters at the end of the march had still not left the Ellipse area three and a half hours later!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. No brainer!
I can't believe this needs explanation! It was clear from watching and listening! Several speakers talked about how there are so many people marching that they need to take their time in clearing the area. It was explained at the time! And so many confirmed it the next day.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. I could explain part of the problem to you Will, if you want me to.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I wait with bated breath
:)
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Good to hear from ya Will ...
thanks for on the ground perspective for those of us who were frustrated looking through the C-Span lens.

but seriously, I unavoidably had to stay home for this years march and didn't go San Francisco - where i normally attend.

There's very little difference between the two in terms of structure, and speakers.

I keep forwarding advice to organizers to get either get better spoken people at the mic - or at least avoid the ranters and screamers - because even I can't bear to listen to any of it - it's all stuff we are educated on, stuff we hear about every day on democracynow! read about from alternative press, blogs or talk about with our friends and other community activists - and it's all important stuff that needs to be "out there" for the rest of America to see, read and hear about - but we can't dump it all, in one fell swoop on the un-initiated - because if I can't stand to hear it shouted down at me from the mic - and I already AGREE with most of the concerns raised, then how in the hell should we expect the un-initiated to stick around long enough to get a grasp on how all of these issues are inter-connected on one or more levels?

I mean, pro-war people do not even understand that Iraq was never our enemy for pete sakes! They don't even see how lame their claim that we are "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" doesn't apply and is a completely false and ludicrous premise to base their opposition to us. That's essentially my point. Somehow, imo, Cagan and UP&JC organizers, board members and advisers need to figure out how to get out a single focus message - or don't call it an Anti-War / Out of Iraq march/rally.

ok, i'm done ranting now.. ;)


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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. Will, do you remember the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"?
Remember when the main character was at the inquiry trying to explain what happened and another of the yokels that witnessed the event said that he had seen Big Foot? I call that the BigFoot syndrome. You can be discredited by association. I hate it when that happens. I may have to explain this to you again, as I doubt you will see this response.
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Wrinkle_In_Time Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. I don't care about intentions, I care about impressions...
... all I saw about the protest from Toronto, Ontario, Canada was:

1) a web feed from CSPAN that only showed the A.N.S.W.E.R. main stage and immediate environs. I was puzzled by the amount of time the speakers spent an Haiti (an issue, granted, but not the one I thought I was going to see represented that day) and so I muted the audio.

2) Traffic cameras that only showed glimpses of the people assembling for the protest, apart from some cameras with "technical difficulties".

3) William Pitt's blog, which stopped being posted to the PDA website and was only updated on truthout.org.

4) DU posts.

That's my impression. To dispel any potential attacks: :eyes:

a) That's right, I wasn't there.

b) No, I couldn't organise a rally of that size. I never claimed I could.

c) If A.N.S.W.E.R. was the best/only choice, then so be it. Just don't poo-poo people's response to how that was received. You were there: I wasn't. I was here: you weren't. As much as I am interested in your first-hand impressions of the event, I think you should be interested in how it was portrayed to the outside world. Some of us are trying to tell you something that we think is valuable.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. ANSWER is the cause of all things EEEEVILLLLL....
snicker.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-27-05 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. Get with the program Will
The demonstration was a big failure. It was a horrible terrible day - everyone who didn't go can tell exactly how bad it was. You and I and the rest of the DU'ers who actually went had a different experience, but it seems we were quite mistaken. It seems that ANSWER has COMMIES in its coalition. All is lost. All 12 people watching CSPAN now know the bitter truth: there are COMMIES out there and they are against the war, and want some free mumia, whatever that is, and probably are scheming to take away everything we hold sacred and will certainly succeed if anyone attends anymore demonstrations where there are COMMIES.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. LMFAO
right on. :thumbsup:
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-28-05 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. This was the impression I had as well....
We waited forever to begin walking, but it wasn't to hear the speeches. It really appeared to be the throngs of people that were all trying to get lined up in the street. Whenever there would be a small gap, hordes of people would file into the opening, which made it very difficult to move forward. Where my Ma and I were standing, right at the crossing of 15th and uh, i forget, you could just see groups of people continually moving into the greater mass of people in the street. It made for an initially incredibly slow procession. In fact, few people seemed to be focused on the speakers much.... they were all trying to figure out how to take their place in line. At least, this was my observation from where I was standing.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-29-05 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
27. Okay
That's a more reasonable reason. OTOH, why didn't they have a clue how many of us were going to be there? I mean, they missed by a fair number. How did that happen?
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