Great. Now we're all being forced to tithe.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

Now that FEMA is reimbercing "faith based" organizations, we are ALL being forced to tithe to the "churches" that are large and corrupt enough to take advantage of this new governmental ponzi scheme.

Stop the world, I want to get off. This is too nutz.

[fasttense]

1. I can't believe this. I give to my church not so they can put my money

in their bank but so they can use it to help the victims. Now they are going to get repaid for the money I gave them? This makes no sense.

So I get to pay twice? Once I paid freely to help support the church's efforts with the victims of the hurricane, then I get to pay again with my tax dollars? I thought my tax dollars were for non-religious things. I take care of my church, they don't need the government controlling them with tax money. This reminds me of ancient Rome, where you had to pay for all the Government sponsored temples.

[wtbymark]

2. you got it! This is indeed Rome

And Nero is at the helm

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. Your church may or may not receive government funds

Some may refuse them.

[txaslftist]

22. "Some (churches) may refuse (funds)".... Heheheh

You've never been a church trustee, I can tell.

[demgurl]

35. One church was on NPR today and......

They said they were refusing the money!

demgurl

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

27. Bushco views the fundie churches as corporations with large voting blocks

It's all business.

And it sucks big time.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I saw that not long after Katrina. I gave a ton of stuff to the NO people

that they said would be staying at Ft. Chaffee for months...including 2 TV's, DVDs, and a ton of books. Within 7 days they had moved all those 9,000 people to church camps throughout the state! Guess they will get reimbursed for these too!

[Deja Q]

4. Then I shall remember that before April 15, 2006 arrives.

[fasttense]

5. The hell with waiting until then, I'm writing my Senator. Not that he

will pay attention. He's Frist and he has a lot of problems of his own over insider trading.

[Mutley]

18. I saw that this morning!

:rofl: When will these assholes ever learn?

[displacedtexan]

6. Have you posted this on your blog yet?

I hope so.

[Coyote_Bandit]

7. Anybody that doesn't think

that the right wing activism of churches is financially motivated is nuts.

Take a professional pastorate largely lacking in real world work experience and make their livelihood dependent upon the voluntary financial contributions of primarily the middle and upper class members of their congregation. They will say whatever they need to in order to keep those folks happy and motivated. I have long believed that this was responsible for the "prosperity" teaching of so many pastors. Now we have rich people who think it is ok to be greedy because their pastor told them that God wanted them to financially prosper - and we have pastors advocating the political agenda of the rich. And since those rich folks get to deduct charitable contributions from their taxes they have an incentive to maintain and support these fundie freeper pastors. It is a sick relationship between two bought and paid for prostitutes. Now throw in some religion some rules and some self-righteous piety. :puke:

Seriously. I have heard preachers:
(1) compare God to a coke machine were you put your money in and push the button to select what you want;
(2) talk about their private jets and rolexes and encourage rampant materialism and consumerism under the guise of God's prosperity;
(3) ridicule the educated and unemployed or underemployed implying that they were spiritually inferior; and
(4) suggest that those who give financially to the ministry will have their donations multiplied back to them a hundred tims.

[WildClarySage]

13. I agree 100%

the worst thing that has ever happened to christianity was the book "The Prayer of Jabez". ('Jay-bez', as my cousin called it, in all seriousness!) That book convinced millions of people that consumerism/materialism and christianity go hand in hand, and that whatever Jesus said about the meek and poor can be disregarded as quaint, ushering in a widespread acceptance of ignoring Jesus' messages in favor of old fashioned pharisee-ian old testament fundamentalism.

[Coyote_Bandit]

14. That book is just the latest incarnation

of this heresy. In American popular culture it can be traced back to at least the 1950's when Oral Roberts first started teaching "seed faith" giving. Kenneth Hagin may have taught the idea even before Oral. Though I suspect its roots go back much much further. It is, after all, a very attractive idea and, contrary to the teachings of Jesus, offers no hint of sacrifice.

The many schisms of Christendom are financially dependent upon voluntary contributions of those in their congregation. Because of their financial motivations I have little hope for their return to a faith with integrty.

[WildClarySage]

15. I agree that the roots go way back, but that book really reached

people, and made the Bakers and the Robertsons seem less ridiculous and more respectable to a lot of average joe xtians.

[Coyote_Bandit]

20. I agree

that it did help to put a respectable - and popular - face on the evil pig.

The other thing it did was to reinforce the idea that being "Christian" was all about us, the individual believer rather than our responsibility to our world. An idea that, again, is quite contrary to Scripture.

It is a book that justifies selfcentered greed.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

28. Greed, Pride and avarice are moved from the seven deadlies to

the bahaviour of the saints.

Bizarro world redux.

[earthmama]

8. that really sucks ...

i just saw that on CNN. what about the non faith groups that helped?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. The Red Cross does get some (contract) reimbursement.

[SheilaT]

9. No we're not.

If you don't want to give to a church or any faith-based organization, then don't.

The whole idea behind shifting various government responsibilities to faith-bath organizations is that they can do things more efficiently, with less wasteful bureaucracy. Of course, the fact that they can (legitimately) require that those helped or those employed by them be believers doesn't matter. The fact that they simply don't reach as many who actually have need, doesn't matter.

It's all being done to lower taxes for the richest five percent or two percent or whatever tiny fraction it actually is.

Me, I don't belong to an organized religion. I give money to various secular causes that matter to me. I think we have a collective obligation to help the neediest among us and that obligation has nothing to do with how a person chooses to worship or not.

[zbird]

21. If you are paying taxes, you are.

Your (and my) tax money is going to "reimburse" these faith-based charities. Therefore, you are forcibly "contributing" to these entities.

[SheilaT]

25. I'm contributing even more

to support a military that I despise.

This country spends more on military than all the rest of the world combined.

My fantasy is to save enough money to invest in tax-free bonds and live off the interest. Then I'd be contributing a relatively minimal amount to the government. Of course, there's still all sorts of other taxes out there, but I could console myself that I'm giving less than some others.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

32. By having to pay taxes and have my taxes used to pay "faith based"

organizations, I am, in essence, tithing to a group I do not wish to support in any way.

[ktowntennesseedem]

10. We owe these churches a lot.

We owe them our thanks, our gratitude. We should celebrate their sacrifices and hold them up as examples of true American spirit and volunteerism. And the gov't should hang its collective head in shame because these religious groups stepped in faster, more effectively, and with unmeasurably fewer resources that the Feds, and did so out of compassion and not out of political necessity.

BUT WE DO NOT OWE THEM ONE RED CENT! As soon as a church accepts any financial reimbursement, their independence is severely compromised, and the sacrifices made and good works done are mocked.

The gov't and the church can and must work together for the common good of the community, and should carefully coordinate their efforts and resouces. BUT KEEP THOSE RESOURCES SEPARATE, and let each keep their noses out of the other's business.

[ComerPerro]

17. Very well said

[ktowntennesseedem]

19. Thanks! -nt

[qanda]

23. A woman on CSPAN just made a very good point

When she participated in helping out with her church, she used her own money. And I know for a fact that most churches took up collections to provide help for storm victims. Churches should not be reimbursed any more than individual donors should be reimbursed.

[ktowntennesseedem]

30. Yes, a very good point!

Jesus once told a parable about a poor widow who gave two pennies to the temple. He said she had given far more than anyone else that day, because in her poverty she gave all she had, while the weathy worshipers gave some of their excess which they would never miss.

Why we give is far more important than how much we give. My message to FEMA: Don't insult my gifts by trying to reimburse me; give that money and support to the victims, like you should have done in the first place!

[lectrobyte]

11. So, suppose one were an ordained subgenius minister. Could I apply

for a slice of that federal pie? We all gotta start our own church and use this for our purposes. Church of Darwin. Flying Spaghetti Monster. American Rastafarians. After all, I don't think we'll see this faith-based stuff getting repealed anytime soon.

[txaslftist]

29. "subgenius minister" is that redundant?

[lectrobyte]

31. subgenius minister, sure by definition I guess, but one could also

be referring to a Minister in the Church of the Subgenius, which I was:

http://www.subgenius.com/



Praise Bob!

[Corgigal]

24. Churches are on the take?

Horror of Horrors. Is nothing really sacred anymore?

Since I don't belong to any organized religion I guess I already knew the answer.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

33. Yes, I'm afraid so... There has been recent proof that a few

unscrupulous people have trafficked on people's superstitions once or twice in the history of man.

Sad but true.

[kentuck]

26. Why don't that just make the Church a cabinet Department ?

No more separation of church and state.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. OK - everybody find a way to get paid under the table. NOW.

Come April 15, you're dirt poor. Fuck them.