Think of taxes as rent you pay to live in this country

[Toots]

Do you want to live in a low rent neighborhood?

[TahitiNut]

1. Nonsense.

I'm one of the landlords ("We The People"), not some sharecropper. If anyone should be paying 'rent' it's the damned carpetbaggers and privateers.


Look... it's called a "value proposition." It's an exchange (or should be), not a "payment." If taxes pay for an increase in the common wealth, that's mere conversion of an asset from a liquid asset to a fixed asset. It's not a loss, it's a trade.

On the other hand, if taxes are exchanged for public assets worth less than what's paid, where the rest goes to private profit, then the value proposition fails. This is the failing of runaway deficit spending and the "privatization" of on-going government functions.

[Ravenseye]

6. Actually it's sadly accurate

It's all a matter of perspective. Lets say you buy a house. First of all, all you're buying is the very topsoil. The mineral rights under your house aren't yours. If you strike oil, but you haven't separately obtained the mineral rights, you're sol. Samething with the airspace.

All you are buying is the very surface, and the structure which you build on it, which often is also restricted. You can't just build a 20 story tower ina residential neighborhood for instance.

Ok. So you've got your 2 bedroom home you own on your plot of land. Lets say that you dont' have a mortgage, you own it outright for simplicity sake.

Well if you don't pay your taxes what happens? The government takes your house, and kicks you out. Property Taxes are essentially rent. Anyone who pays property tax is a renter.

You never really 'own' your house, if someone can take it away if you don't pay them money they say you owe them for occupying that space.

Property Taxes...Rent...Semantics.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. I'm not real fond of that metaphor.

Think of dues to a club instead. Rent goes into the coffers of a landlord. Dues are returned to the club member in the form of services. Higher membership fees=bvetter services.

[Ravenseye]

9. Actually I kinda like that metaphor better

Though in my post above I equate taxes with rent...probably a better metaphor is indeed a Condo Association Fee.

If you live in a nice apartment block, you own your 'space'. You might have a nice 2 bedroom, with a balcony overlooking the shared pool. Now you also, by living there, have to pay a condo fee. This fee pays for the super who fixes things, the people who come in to clean the carpets, the landscapers who cut the grass, and water the flowers, the pool guy to maintain it, make sure it's clean and properly cholorinated, the overall roofing, spacing, extermination, etc.

You don't have the right to refuse paying the condo fee, because you'll reap the benefits from it even if you don't pay. So everyone pays into a communal pot in order to pay for the things the group deems necessary.

That's a far better analogy to taxes, except for the one provision that I don't think a condo assocation can actually kick you out of your house or apartment for not paying the dues. I think all they can do is win a civil case and then put a lien on your apartment to prevent you from selling it.

[ComerPerro]

12. The problem with using those analogies

With rent especially, but also with dues, is it lets FReepers say "How come I have to pay more than other people? How come some people don't have to pay rent? Why do the rich have to pay so much?"

But I understand the analogy. Its how I've always looked at taxes.

[Telly Savalas]

14. Those freeper whines can be answered with these simple 2000 words

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Well, obviously the owner of the 2nd property should pay more

taxes, because he will be needing more services.

Right?

[ComerPerro]

18. LOL

Sadly, that's how some of them think.

[ComerPerro]

17. "Now who do you think should pay a higher rent, Mr. FReeper?"

LOL.

I know, I agree completely.

[Jackpine Radical]

22. Those who pay a lot tend to get a lot.

If you're rich, you require more police protection. Businesses rely on publicly supplied water, sewage, highways, airports, and court systems. 90% of all court activity is business law.

[Ron Mexico]

3. I'll start thinking of it that way when

we have a real government. Right now, every dollar taken from my paycheck is a ripoff.

[pitohui]

4. it doesn't work that way in usa

you pay taxes whether or not you live in this country if you're an amer. citizen, i have some expats in my family, so i know

it is not rent if you have to pay whether you live there or not

i know it is different in civilized nations

[SlipperySlope]

5. Not rent, extortion...

If I don't pay my taxes, eventually men with guns will break into my house and "punish" me. Not much different than living in a gang controlled neighborhood.

[Telly Savalas]

15. So what then? Abolish government?

A progressive government such as Sweden's which provides health care and a thorough economic safety uses the same means as generating revenue. Are you trying to claim that such a government is wrong?

[SlipperySlope]

20. Not claiming it is wrong...

I'm not claiming that government is wrong, but I think that any system of income tax is nothing more than raw extortion.

[Bozita]

7. "Taxes are the price we pay for civilization." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

http://www.madison.com/toolbox/index.php?action=printme2&ref=tct&storyURL=%2Ftct%2Fopinion%2Findex.php%3Fntid%3D54339%26ntpid%3D5

Dave Zweifel: We must stop starving government


By Dave Zweifel
September 16, 2005

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."


If I remember right, it was Rep. Dave Obey who reminded us of that Oliver Wendell Holmes quotation during his appearance at Fighting Bob Fest last Saturday.

The point is that unless we adequately support our governments, they're going to be weak and we, ultimately, are going to pay the price. We can't fight expensive wars and then reduce taxes on the wealthy without hurting the country.

We saw the manifestation of that on the Gulf Coast a few days ago. In order to pay for Iraq, FEMA was neglected and a lot of folks paid the price as a result. Louisiana and New Orleans agencies were ineffective because they, too, had been inadequately funded in recent years. Heaven knows how many other agencies that exist to protect the American people from harm are in the same shape.

more...

[PATRICK]

8. Go all the way

Taxes are prices paid for communal commodities cooperatively shared. there is some choice through use of write offs etc. but it is all about money for something and the flow of capital. To single out the government
as the only dangerous offender or middle man is to deny one's ability to cooperate for simple survival and the infrastructure of life. The so called private sector taxes you with prices fixed without your choice, the reins of competitive pricing about as dependable as touchscreen voting is as a check upon government.

The whole thing seems an alarming scam and if you are not well off you are more victim than citizen or consumer. And what weird disconnects between rhetoric and reality.

Picking examples out of this mess can be done in any way imaginable.

[Benhurst]

10. BushAmerica is a low-rent neighborhood, with no health care

nor even minimum (by world standards) social services.

We're paying rent, all right. Rent to a gang of criminal slum landlords who are living high off the hog.

[raccoon]

13. Exactly. I wouldn't mind taxes as much if it benefited me

and my fellow average Americans more. Especially if the US had a national health plan.

But so much of it going to the military-industrial complex really ticks me off.

[Toots]

19. You are the only one to catch the meaning of my post

:thumbsup:

[Ron Mexico]

21. I have to admit, I still don't get it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just honestly don't get it. Please help an undercoffeed office rat and tell me what I missed. :)

[Benhurst]

23. Thanks.

:hi:

[CabalPowered]

11. Don't you mean high rent for a low rent unit?