RAW STORY: Developing: Shocker: Ex-President Carter says

[SharonRB]

Shocker: Ex-President Carter says
Gore won 2000 election

I just saw this on Raw Story. Just popped up. Interesting.

[KyndCulture]

1. hmmm thanks for the heads up.

What's the story I wonder... since we know Gore won the election, I guess it's that Carter said it.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

3. Yes..."Join the list of people who agree with you, Mr. President"...

It will be interesting to see what the "story" is.

[eglide]

2. Gore did win the popular vote.

Never was a dispute about that. The electoral votes is where the
dispute was.

[XNASA]

15. But you'd have to be from Oz to believe the the Chimp won Florida.

[Hissyspit]

16. Yes, but it is now established from many sources Gore won Florida's

electoral votes. I assume that is what Carter is confirming as his opinion.

Even if you factor OUT the very real and deliberate attempts to suppress (felons list, bad vote count) votes for Gore in Florida, he STILL came out ahead.

It was a travesty of democracy.

[jobycom]

23. Exactly. I'm guessing Carter is confirming that Gore won Florida, too

which would have given him the electoral vote as well.

The NORC handcount done by the University of Chicago shows clearly that even if you ignore all of the clearly double-punched ballots--and there were around 50,000 of these and they were clearly meant to go to Gore--that Gore still won the election.

NORC didn't say this: all they did was categorize each ballot and report the totals. So if a ballot had been marked "not counted" by the machine counts, they would examine the ballot and categorze it. Like "three corner hanging chad for Gore" or "one corner hanging chad for Bush."

Their results found several thousand ballots that had clear votes--no hanging chads, no problems whatsoever--that the machines simply didn't count, possible because the ballot itself wasn't cut to spec. Counting those ballots, which were 100% undisputable, because they were punched just like the ballots that were counted--Gore won.

Counting hanging chads marked for one candidate or another Gore won, in almost every combination you could find of how to determine the intent of the voter. One variation, and I forget exactly how it was worded, showed Bush winning.

In short, the NORC count showed that if Florida law had been followed and all votes had been counted (don't say recount, because we are talking about votes that were not counted at all, much less recounted) Gore would have won the electoral votes.

Remember, even the Supreme Court unanomously said that there were legally cast votes that were never counted in their Bush v Gore decision. But by a 5-4 margin, the Court ruled that the votes didn't have to be counted to decide the election.

Just a primer. Welcome to DU!!!

[happyslug]

30. On the one way Bush won Florida in 2000

Was if the only recounts were in the heavily democratic Counties as Gore had asked the court (And the Court ruled it would not do, instead extending the recount to ALL Counties).

It appears the Democratic Counties actually counted their votes accurately, Gore NOT getting enough votes to overcome Bush's lead. The problem for Bush was in the GOP controlled Counties, they it appears all of the GOP votes were counted BUT MANY OF THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE HAD NOT BEEN.

Thus Gore picked up the votes he needed to win NOT in the Democratic Counties but in the GOP controlled Counties (Thus Gore should have asked for a full-recount NOT a partial recount). Furthermore the only way Bush would have won Florida was the only one a Florida Judge said HE WOULD NOT HAVE PERMITTED.

[jobycom]

31. Thanks. nt.

[krkaufman]

4. No story yet, just a headline on the main RawStory page at the moment

Near the top of the main page...

Shocker: Ex-President Carter says
Gore won 2000 vote: Developing...

What's w/ the "Developing..."? Is Raw Story our truth-based counter for Sludge Report?

[SharonRB]

10. Raw Story does that all the time

When they're working on a story, they post it as a teaser and say "Developing." I'll keep checking back during the day to see if they post a real story. I hope it comes out today, because I'll be off line all weekend after I leave for DC tomorrow.

[BlueEyedSon]

Linketty-link please?

[bleever]

5. Very interesting. An ex-president calling another president illegitimate.

Come on, Jimmy: lay it out.

[Deep13]

20. Always knew Bush was a bastard!

[stubtoe]

6. May I have a link, please?

Thanks!

[bleever]

7. Link:

http://rawstory.com/

[tk2kewl]

8. I get the feeling something is really about to blow wide open.

I have never seen ex-presidents slamming the current president. Carter and Clinton have both been taking some shots at bush lately. And the Dibold-throat thing is heating up; Able Danger; Plame; even Spector trying to convince Bush to put off the next court nomination.

Is the house of Bush on the verge of collapse for real this time? God I hope we're nearing the end of thins insanity.

[tainowarrior]

13. i think so too

Something strange IS going. Maybe the ex-presidents know something about Bush and think it is more important to help get him removed than to keep "presidential quiet" anymore

[MADem]

18. I concur

Although Clinton did not SLAM Bush, he simply outlined the facts and the failures that accompanied the events. He did it in dispassionate fashion, and did not get personal at all.

Could it be that kidney stones brought down this little emperor? When Karl is bent over, medicated and squealing in pain, the weewee cowboy cannot manage on his own, can he?

[LiberalEsto]

26. And Cheney was hiding, maybe ill too

with Dickie and Rovie out of commission, it's no wonder why * hit the sauce and screwed up the katrina response so blatantly.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Maybe

Good points. I've never seen it either. Was Poppy Bush this critized by past presidents? I think they definitley (they as in Clinton and Carter) know the inside scoop so perhaps. :shrug: It makes me wonder anyways.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Who is this going to shock?

[SharonRB]

11. I think the shock is only that Carter is saying it

We all know Gore won and have known for a long, long time.

[krkaufman]

17. Yes, agreed. Any ex-President, let alone a nice guy like Carter...

... would typically not criticize the current Administration, let alone imply that its illegitimate.

[KyndCulture]

14. Now THAT is the question... I see nothing shocking about it.

Being in Florida in 2000 and seeing it with my own two peepers, I ain't shocked.

Love Jimmy though, if he's gonna lay a smackdown, I'm all for it!

[FreedomAngel82]

33. I'm sure there are people who don't know

:shrug:

[tainowarrior]

12. we knew that..

so, that means Bush's first term was illegal, at least. The second term came about from what he did in the first term, that obviously received enough support from his supporters for a 2nd term...or it was stolen, which is plausible as well.

On what grounds is Carter making this decision?

[krkaufman]

21. "Proceed of a crime"....

... is the best way to characterize the 2004 election. Only his incumbency, with the war, bully pulpit and neverending terror war (Bush's, not Osama's; think continual terror alerts), helped him limp to within range of an election victory.

Without having stolen the first election, he'd have sold the Crawford faux ranch by Spring 2001.

[saracat]

19. And until it is covered by MSM it isn't "news" because

the average American will never read this.

[Kolesar]

24. NYTimes' Paul Krugman summarized the FL2000 theft a few month ago

That's MSM, but would only be consumed by literate Americans who read that paper or website. Krugman noted that the analysis of the vote came out about a month after 9/11/01--really bad timing.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. I think the only way that is going to happen is

if Carter speaks out even more and doesn't care who hears him.

[Roxy66]

22. Wow, I wonder if there is something new that will make a difference

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. It's about time someone of STATURE told the truth about the 2000 debacle!

Leave it up to Jimmy Carter. :loveya: I can't WAIT to hear this whole story. I wonder what he knows? This should be good.

[screembloodymurder]

27. Carter loves this country.

Maybe he just couldn't keep his mouth shut any longer.

[sonias]

28. Well it's nice to have a former President confirm what we have all known

I'm sure the MSM will try to make him out to be crazy. Getting up there in age you know. Bless you Mr. Carter. Those of us on this board know you are 1,000 times a better man than the current thief in the White House.

We've all known for almost 5 years now, that the SCOTUS 5-4 vote was the only vote that counted. And for Sandra Day O'Connor, that vote will be her legacy. She participated in the biggest fraud in election history ever.

Sonia

[McCamy Taylor]

29. No duh! Wait until the MSM "discovers" that they have been had, too.

That is going to be a major laugh fest.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. I also wanted to know

what can happen now?

[marions ghost]

36. so does this mean

that people are now ready to accept the truth of the 2000 election?
(even tho they probably still wont accept the truth of the 2004 selection?) Well to accept even one of them would be a milestone. Maybe acceptance of 2000 will one day lead to acceptance of the possibility of the other...

I wonder if Carter is going to follow up on this.

[deadparrot]

37. It's not a shocker. It's the truth. nt