Two British soldiers dressed as Arabs arrested over killing

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1573681,00.html

Violence erupted in Basra this afternoon following the arrest of two British soldiers for allegedly killing one policeman and wounding another.

British troops exchanged gunfire with protesters as two tanks were reportedly set on fire. Four civilians are said to have been wounded in the clashes.

The fighting broke out after two British soldiers, allegedly dressed as Arabs, opened fire on a police patrol killing one officer and wounding another.

The Ministry of Defence confirmed that two military personnel were detained by Iraqi authorities today, but would not comment on rumours that the soldiers were working undercover.

This may explain the Al Zarqawi phenomenon?

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=9665

The Bush administration had numerous chances to arrest the Jordanian militant Ahmad al-Khalayleh, known as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, if he does really exist, since February 2003 speech of the former Secretary of State Colin Powell at United Nations Security Council, a great portion of which was given to the “terrorist camp in Khurmal”, in the pre-invasion Kurdish enclave.

It was at that camp that Zarqawi supposedly fled Afghanistan, and Kurds were receiving intensive training to produce the poison ricin and cyanide.

At that time, the Khurmal camp and the area surrounding it were out of Saddam Hussein's control, but Powell fabricated evidence, largely discredited by the intelligence community, to show that Zarqawi does have ties to the Iraqi regime.

Al Zarqawi's "headquarters" were bombed to the ground by U.S. forces that year, and some news sources claimed that he had been killed, but his name keeps recurring whenever the U.S. needs.

Almost every attack that takes place in Iraq is attributed to Al Zarqawi, and his so-called Al Qaeda military wing in Iraq. No car or roadside bomb attacks occur unless they're attributed to him by the U.S.

[CBGLuthier]

1. Forbes doesn't say allegedly about the Arab dress

A Basra policeman, who declined to be named, said the two British servicemen detained were undercover soldiers, wearing Arab dress, who allegedly fired at a police patrol before being forced to stop.

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/09/19/afx2231697.html

[confludemocrat]

44. shows US and Brit. has no one on their side--NO ONE, got it? NO ONE

to the extent brits have to pose as Arabs in some kind of black ops Phoenix program whereby targets (which I think includes women and children purposely are terminated with extreme, no explosive prejudice.

[FloridaPat]

2. Pretty much confirms the rumors that the US & Britian are doing terrorist

acts in Iraq. Blown up taxis and cars. Shooting police. Undercover soldiers? Nice little scam by *. Keep the country in total confusion so no one will get their act together and tell the US to get out. $1 billion a week for this.

Where are the Democrats again?

[philb]

50. So U.S. and Brits are responsible for opposition as well as occupation?

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. So you believe the Iraqis are not capable of running a

resistance movement, how fascinating... and colonial of you... we said the same about the VC...guess they were also a figment of our collective imaginations

[orwell]

3. Interesting...

...possible confirmation of another "conspiracy theory."

But we all know, those of us who proffer such "nonsense" are "delusional tin foil hatters..."

Move along citizen...nothing to see here...

[glitch]

15. Well, as I've been saying, tin foil is the new black

if you're not wearing it you're nowhere.

[Dhalgren]

4. "Undercover soldiers"? What the hell is that?

And why would "undercover soldiers" be shooting and killing policemen? And why isn't the British parliament screaming bloody murder about what the hell Brit soldiers are being used for in Emperor George's war?

[rman]

13. "false-flag operation" - happens all the time

Though they're not supposed to be uncovered.
Probably the most well-known is the "Bay of Pigs" fiasco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion). That one was uncovered because it was all over the US media before-hand.

We can only wonder how many other Iraqi police men and civilians have been killed by undercover operatives.

[Greeby]

23. Because Parliament is out

Hence why Galloway has the time for this tour.

Besides, the Labour Party Conference is coming up in about a week, so maybe a leadership challenge in the near future?

[ck4829]

25. Sounds like Insurgents to me

[moodforaday]

49. If white, "undercover soldier"

If brown, "unlawful combatant". The former are "rescued" from a sovereign contry's prison by tanks; the latter wind up in Gitmo.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Special Air Service

look it up, right up there with SEALs and Rangers, and they work hand in hand with MI6 and CIA

[Dhalgren]

55. I know what SAS means. It is the phrase "undercover soldier"

that was new to me. It is like "undercover policeman", only soldiers are not policemen and the two groups never should be equated. Infiltrators, commandos, saboteurs, are all acceptable terms, but "undercover soldiers"? I don't think so...

[LibertyLou]

5. More False-Flag Ops to bring about civil war and

more sectarian violence...

Like the 'Wolf Brigade'...set up and sponsored by the good ol black ops of the US of A...

Man, this IS Vietnam redux...sowing the seeds of chaos...Cui Bono?..the Merchants of Death...

[Old and In the Way]

6. I still wonder about those beheadings and the timing of the release

If our troops/allies would do this, is that such a far-fetched idea?

[mrfrapp]

8. Far Fetched? No.

There were discussions about that at the time. The video of the Nick Berg beheading in particular was extremely suspect.

[mrfrapp]

7. Planting Bombs

The Washington Post are reporting that they have been accused of "planting bombs".

Monday's clashes stemmed from the arrest by Iraqi police on Sunday of two Britons, whom Iraqi police accused of planting bombs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091900572_pf.html

[NNN0LHI]

11. I wonder what the "pottery barn rule" crowd has to say about that?

This development kind of blows that position all to hell.

Don

[bread_and_roses]

40. I don't see that sentence?

This story is linked in another thread, also referencing planting bombs, and I don't see it there either...I havn't had enough coffee?

[rman]

9. oops, false-flag op uncovered

it'll probably be spun so that it was the soldiers own idea.

[The Stranger]

10. Kick and recommend for greatest.

False flag and Black Ops.

[moodforaday]

12. Likewise n/t

[Mr_Spock]

14. One bright morning, in the middle of the night

Two dead soldiers got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other
A deaf policeman hear the raucous
And came to the rescue of the two dead boys...

[Taxloss]

16. This is extremely odd.

I can't make head or tail of it. They fired on the police?!

[Fescue4u]

17. Side note: How do you DRESS as ARABS?

Is that like dressing as blacks? Dressing as whites? Dressing as Native Americans?

I didnt realize that ones race dicated your manner of clothing.

[CBGLuthier]

19. I think the OP may have phrased it poorly

Most of the reports say something like this;

A Basra policeman, who declined to be named, said the two British servicemen detained were undercover soldiers, wearing Arab dress, who allegedly fired at a police patrol before being forced to stop.


Arab dress.

I think we know what that describes.

But it doeen't matter about that.

What matters is WHY are soldiers in this situation performing undercover ops?

Did they watch Lawrence of Arabia and decide if it worked for Lawrence it would work for them?

Or were they up to no good.

I am just glad it was the Brits because if they had caught Americans we would never have heard about it. And Basra would just be a smoking pile with two more dead soldiers in it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Arabs aren't a race, they're a culture

and different cultures do have different ways of dressing. It appears to be Iraqis who say the men were ddressed as Arabs:

Basra security officials said the two Britons arrested were undercover officers dressed as Arabs.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1963252005

and also:

One of the men was dressed as a cleric and the other was wearing Arabic dress when the incident occurred.

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=123&art_id=qw1127152801946B262

[Fescue4u]

30. fair enough

but all the arabs I know dress just like me. I know at least a dozen.

[truebrit71]

26. You're joking right? RIGHT?

The articles talk about two British soldiers getting caught red-handed UNDER-COVER, and you're more concerned with being PC?

:eyes:

How do you dress as an Arab? Gimme a break...

[Fescue4u]

29. You tell me

I know quite a few Arabs and they dress just like me.

(and I *DID* label the subject as a side note, meaning not as important as the primary story)

[truebrit71]

33. And you live in Iraq?

If the statement "dressed as Arabs" were refering to something going on here in the States, then I could see where there might be a case for saying that the phrase was out of place. But in the context of the story, I don't see any reason why it should be an issue.

[Fescue4u]

46. Do you?

[truebrit71]

61. No, so your point is moot...

...if your arab freinds dressed like you in Iraq they'd probably be instant targets...if they dressed like Arabs do in that region they would probably blend in...it's not a question of racist over here, or over there, it is a question of CONTEXT...

[progressivebydesign]

45. Yeah, talk about going off on a tangent.

PC at its worst.

[Fescue4u]

47. Thats why I called it a "side note"

totally unrelated to the substance of the story.

From the responses, I guess its now ok to be racist, as long as we are talking about arabs.

very progressive...

/not

[NNN0LHI]

31. You will need to ask the Guardian about that Fescue4u

From the article:

>>>allegedly dressed as Arabs<<<

[Fescue4u]

48. fine, just ignore this particular piece of racism

After all it has nothing to do with Racism in America, just racism "over there", so it doesnt count.

/sarcasm.

[truebrit71]

60. How is it racist?

I think you need to focus your anger on the main issue here, which is that there is some seriously hinky stuff going on, and to hell with people IN IRAQ dressing like Arabs to apparently try and blend in being a "racist" statement...

How in the world would dressing like an IN IRAQ Arab be racist? :eyes:

[phusion]

18. WTF?

:wtf:

That's all I can say...

[Lecky]

21. This is big news... n/t

[ClayZ]

22. drip, drip, drip, GUSH! n/t

:kick:

[MGKrebs]

24. Yikes. Scary pic to go with that story.

A British soldier prepares to jump from a burning tank which was set ablaze after a shooting incident in the southern Iraqi city of Basra. Photograph: Atef Hassan/Reuters

[verminator]

34. Scary pic to go with that story

Civil war here we come ...

[mogster]

27. Very revealing

Here's more confirmation from another thread:

British Attack Basra Jail to Free Two

BASRA, Iraq - British forces using tanks broke down the walls of the central jail in the southern city of Basra late Monday and freed two Britons, allegedly undercover commandos, who had been arrested on charges of shooting two Iraqi policemen.

http://www.leadingthecharge.com/stories/news-0074494.html

British tanks smash Iraqi jail to free UK soldiers

BASRA, Iraq, Sept 19 (Reuters) - British forces used tanks to smash down the walls of a prison in the southern city of Basra and freed two undercover British soldiers seized earlier by Iraqi forces, an Interior Ministry official said on Monday.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said half a dozen tanks had broken down the walls of the jail and troops had then stormed in to free the two British soldiers. The governor of Basra confirmed that the jail had been broken into.

The Interior Ministry official said dozens of Iraqi prisoners being held at the jail had escaped at the same time.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BAK971467.htm

BRITISH EMBASSY CONFIRMS TWO BRITISH SOLDIERS FREED FROM JAIL IN IRAQI CITY OF BASRA
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/ALI971469.htm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4820809#4821184

**************************************

If this breaks out into the open and turns out to be common....

[donkeyotay]

28. Keep asking the question: who benefits?

This seems like a good time to point out something that's been troubling me. Not too long ago there was a horrific attack - one that killed many women and children and was followed up with another attack on a vehicle that took wounded to a hospital. Then there was the more recent attack on workers who approached a car to try to get work. When I asked, "who benefits?" I was hard pressed to answer, "the insurgents." It doesn't make sense. Basically, the insurgents are also trying to win hearts and minds. Horrific attacks on civilians would seem counter-productive.

This could be opening salvos in a bitter civil war. On the other hand, it could be that we are being prepped to accept attacking Syria or Iran. Maybe we are being prepped to accept using tactical nuclear weapons. The rationale being that the "insurgents" are so horrible that any means necessary is okay. Sort of a variation on the Saddam taking babies out of their incubators.

[buzzsaw_23]

32. Standard Operating Procedure- "Strategy of Tension"

Strategy of tension

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


The Strategy of Tension (Italian; "strategia della tensione") is a way to control and manipulate public opinion using propaganda, disinformation, psychological warfare, agents provocateurs and terror. Coined in Italy during the trials of the 1970s and 1980s terror attacks and murders committed by neofascist terrorists backed by deviated intelligence agencies or NATO's secret stay-behind networks ("Gladio"). Other examples include Operation Condor in South America and events in Algeria during the 1990s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_of_tension

Now this is old hat to folks like you NNNOLHI but it must always be proven to those who are unwilling to face the reality of how the world of power politics really functions.

Thanks.

nominated

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. Remember Nick Berg and the videos that were taken? How the

captors looked Caucasian, the orange jumpsuit and the same chairs used in Abu Ghraib??? Maybe all of the questions about the circumstances concerning his murder weren't so far fetched.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. Bin Laden + Al Zarqawi=Emmanuel Goldstein the 1984 boogeman. nt

[truedelphi]

56. And Seymour Hersh had an interesting

And tragic tidbit.

he said that when he was in Iraq looking for stories there, he was approached by an American GI.

This is the GI's story - tht his platoon was placed in a rather bondockish area of Iraq. To assist the GIs in their work, the American group was assigned 36 Iraqi police officers.

These men were extremely effective, helpful and also loyal to the Americans.

However, one night an order came down - "Snuff them."
Within twenty-four hours they had been killed, all thirty-six of them, apparently by one or some of the Americans, who were able to put their consciences aside and follow orders.

The GI approaching Hersh wanted this story told. So far Hersh has only informally told it at various schools of journalism. He has refused to make it a "real" story in The New Yorker of The New York Times (both of which are always eager to publish Hersh's work.)

The reason: to place this story in the media, he would need to identify the officer who came to him with the story. And Hersh fears for this man's liife, if he is ever identified.

Carol Dagg Sterritt

[Rex]

37. Either someone in the police patrol was dirty

or they are. No one will probably ever find out.

[BeHereNow]

38. Don, the article does not mention the explosives in the Brits car-

Do you know where that detail was reported?
IF the Brits had explosives in their car, it sure would
lead some to think they were planning
on staging an explosion in the middle of the
religious ceremonies- that would sure explain
the fury of the Iraqis in Basra today.
BHN

[slaveplanet]

41. The WAPO article

was the one that mentioned the bombs....3rd paragragh I believe

[MADem]

39. This has something to do with Iran, IMHO

Basra is a city heavily influenced by Iran. If you were dumped off there, you could easily mistake it for an Iranian city. They intermarry, you can go anywhere and do anything without speaking Arabic and getting by with Farsi, and since Saddam fell, the Iranians have been coming over in droves, and they and their supporters have been enforcing religious rule vis a vis alcohol, gambling, hijab, and so on. The once peaceful city has seen a ton of violence lately.

That bomb had an intended target, the question is who? Who did they want to get rid of?

[cthrumatrix]

42. somehow I don't think this is a "first" time .... control thru chaos

seems to be thier desire

[Roland99]

43. Zarqawi = Negroponte?

[philb]

51. Did the brits attack the jail holding the 2 men? To break them out?

If so, how have the Iraqi's taken that?
What are they doing about it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. One more of these threads

look folks this is what the BBC had this night on world news,

1.- They were SAS (and if you think those two remain in theater I have a bridge to sell you)

2.- They were somehow arrested by the cops, after a shoot out.

3.- The Police took them to jail,

4.- The Brits tried a negotiating when they learned taht they were going to be transfered to a shia militia

Conclusion, as I have been saying all day this was not a false flag, but an infiltration gone terribly wrong (hence the hot extraction)... and it is part of the shadow war that is going on, on top of everything else... and no this is not a Clancy novel, but somebody did mess up... and whatever they were doing went south.

We can discuss the ehtics of this all night if you want, but that is a whole different ball of wax

[NNN0LHI]

57. One mans SAS operative is another mans terrorist n/t

[weiser]

58. Similarity between Zarqawi uniform and these SAS men

I remember the first pictures that appeared when Nick Burg was beheaded. Didn't those "terrorist" have similar uniforms to these SAS men...? Does anyone have that old picture??

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. What, T shirts and trousers?

I think you'll find quite a lot of people round the world wear that.