It's Time That Democratic Leaders not Overplay Their Hands...

[Peter Frank]

...A delicate balance is needed now. * polls are lower than ever. Let the headline read that the away team lost the lead late in the game -- and struck out in the bottom of the ninth.

(...albeit that this is not Robert's Rules of Order)

[still_one]

1. what do you mean "over play" their hands?

They have already rubber stamped everything this administration has sent across, except for bolton

"when you have nothing, you have nothing to lose"

until they learn that we will NOT win

[Melodybe]

7. It is long past time for them to eviscerate the POS.

If the Democrats had any damn backbone in the first place we would never have this mess.

I completely disagree with this thread.

[Peter Frank]

61. You're Exactly Right...

...Dems must become the actors -- not the reactors.

[Melodybe]

67. Dems should have never caved in 2000

End of story, if it weren't from them I would be enjoying President Gore right now.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

70. You appear to have just contradicted your original post by agreeing with

this.

For the record, I think a far bigger problem is the Democrats never even looking at, or playing, their hand, rather than overplaying.:shrug:

[Peter Frank]

75. It Appears That Way But...

...I didn't say that Dem leaders shouldn't assert themselves -- I said they shouldn't overplay. By this I mean that they should be careful to choose their battles carefully, and resist the kind of shrill rhetoric that can turn off moderatres and give cannon fodder to the "hosts" of critics.

[Wizard777]

22. I agree. His polls are down and his body count is up.

If they play softball with Bush. I don't want to be on the team any more. Bush is killing people and the dems are worried about pissing in his cornflakes? Oh yeah he's got them trained real good.

[Peter Frank]

30. Biden, Dean, Carter & the like Rubber-stamp nothing...

...if we all were fatalists, we could all live in the simple little world of, "Everything is fucked up -- so it's O.K. to disconnect."

Who believes that everything is fucked up beyond the ability for any individual to make a difference? Why should anyone do anything more than piss & moan?

Pessimism the infertile ground in which dreams are buried?

Optimism is harder than pessimism. Pessimism only involves a single dynamic.

Isn't it time to emulate, applaud & support the leaders who exemplify all the best in this world -- in the face of lazy pessimism???

(...live by the pessimistic sword -- die by the same?)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

34. How would the Demos overplay their hands?

[still_one]

73. sorry, but bidden did, and does rubber stamp everything

he trashed rice during the confirmation hearings, and then voted for her confirmation. He voted for the Iraq war, the patriot act, the bankrupcy bill, and I can go on.

as for Dean and Carter, they are NOT in congress right now, so they don't have the power to vote against these criminals in the white house

Look at the democrats who had the courage, boxer, feingold, kucinich, and others.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

2. What's over playing their hands?

[ladylibertee]

3. Dude, What are you talking about? America is finally in the same

place as Democrats...." PISSED THE FUCK OFF " at the bush Admin.Now is the time to be even more aggressive.They outta go Howard Dean on the Retardicans.

[tkmorris]

4. I can't remember a Democrat "overplaying" their hand. Ever.

I really don't get where you are going with this.

[lvx35]

5. I kinda agree with the point.

My opinion at this point is that Bush's greatest enemy is Bush, and if left to observe him, the people will realize what a dumbass he is. We should be aggresive as hell though, especially at the grass roots level...But with the big dem leaders, something tells me Rove is just PRAYING for a dem to do something stupid enough to take attention away from the Bush administration, and Dems should be careful not to get reckless enough to provide that something.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

6. They were saying that in the 04 election too. "Don't worry, * is going to

implode."

I can't wait any longer.

[lvx35]

But the beautiful thing is that he IS imploding!!!

I know the feeling, but the recent drop in Bush's poll ratings is due entirely to a man named GW Bush, no dem can take credit. It truly was doomed to happen. Its no time for passivity, but its time to give credit where credits due, and offer a truly positive alternative! :)

[Crazy Guggenheim]

16. So what are the Demos going to do? I expect the same milk-toast

behavior that's been getting them in trouble all the years.

[ladylibertee]

17. Unlike Retardicans, Dem's know how to change with the times..

go with the flow.reach out to the people...ALL the people.The hardest people the dem's had to convince were Bush's core base.well, thats shaken, moderates have shifted or are in the process and REAL liberals, aren't budging...HELLO !!!!

[Crazy Guggenheim]

19. It's doesn't mean they're are going to vote for the Demos unless they

see a fight coming out of them.

[ladylibertee]

37. Compared to the republicans....all the Dem's gotta do it sneeze

[Crazy Guggenheim]

38. And? They have to come out fighting.

[ladylibertee]

47. True True

[lvx35]

20. It doesn't bother me so much when his numbers are going down...

My philosphy is simple. If Bush's numbers are going down, keep doing whatever you're doing. If they're going up, something needs to change. Dem leaders should have attacked harder years ago whenhis numbers were rising!!!

But to your credit, I should also point out that I have seen more brutal attacks from dems since katrina than any time in years. Attacks from Bill Clinton, Hillary, Edwards, the list goes on and on. So maybe that's it. Whatever it is, they should keep it up! that's what I'm saying.

[Talismom]

71. Yeah, they're imploding but I'm hearing comments about how the

dems aren't really any better, Kerry wouldn't have done better, they don't have any ideas, they don't stand for anything. There are a lot of Bush voters who have now retreated to this line of argument and unless the dems demonstrate some backbone and leadership qualities fast, the opportunities will be lost!

[ladylibertee]

9. Of Course, Major dem's can do one of two things.....

If they know full well that they are running for re-election or office,they should be outspoken, but wise.If they "might" and they don't know yet like say Edwards, they should keep quiet.I think our leaders know what they are doing.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Yeah, they "knew what they were doing" in 2000

and they "knew what they were doing" in 2002, and they "knew what they were doing" in 2004. That's why they're in power now.

Oh, wait, they're NOT in power. In fact, they're in the weakest position they've been in for at least the last 50 years. Whatever their plan is, it doesn't seem to be working.

[ladylibertee]

13. Oh there you go pessimistic......You know, I think I see ONE of the

major Dem's problems.I find it odd that republicans will make themselves look like retarded fools in order to "back bush" but here on DU some of the people here ( they way they are so negative), I find out right disgusting.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. Well excuse me

But after seeing these guys fumble the ball on the goal line so many times, and even go out of their way to support the opposition or turning a blind eye to the opposition's transgressions, I am quickly losing my optimism.

Sorry if you feel that that is disgusting.

[ladylibertee]

40. Let me know when you run for state rep k? LOL

[Crazy Guggenheim]

41. Tha's not a good answer. Explain why the Dems should take a passive

role in this.

[ladylibertee]

46. In Ebonics "you got me fucked up" I did not say that.I've been saying the

exact opposite.They outta be aggressive.

[Chevy]

8. Nonsense

In the words of Maximus"Unleash Hell""
For starters declare Fox News Corp.(Owned by that Australian guy) and Diebold enemies of the American republic.

[ladylibertee]

11. They can do that too.Or lauch a mass FOX NEWS BOYCOTT

[LeahD]

10. They better keep stirring the pot! Carpe Diem! n/t

[applegrove]

14. As long as the truth of bush keeps getting out - the Dems should

keep doing what they are doing.

[ladylibertee]

15. AMEN applegrove

[applegrove]

18. For too long the Rove WH got away with one lie after another. I think

it is because when the Dems spoke truths - Rovbots then claimed 'equal time' to spout out their manufactured version of reality.

If Dems shut up - and only do policy. If they leave the 'reality' of what matters to the people - the Rove WH has a hard time shooting at the public and calling them hypocrites or political.

This will have to be a grassroots thing.

[ladylibertee]

28. YUP.We gotta let them know we have their backs

[Crazy Guggenheim]

29. The same way they have ours.

:rofl: :rofl:

[applegrove]

31. First you have to elect enough of them so that they can do something

other than filibust.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

32. I have to? Many of the ones in there are not doing their job.

[applegrove]

35. Really? It seems to me they finally have figured out a strategy to

let the truth rise to the surface. Whatever they are doing - it is working. Bush is at 37% in the polls - didn't you know?

[Crazy Guggenheim]

36. The Demos have to pound on the Repukes right now.

[applegrove]

45. And when they do - it allows the Rove WH a person to attack and

blame the messenger for the bad news.

Also - don't you think that those million of people who are evacuees and lost a family member - don't you think the most important thing for them is that they get normalcy right away? Otherwise they get PTSD. Pounding the Repukes on the T.V. isn't going to help those people get back to a secure place so they can start healing or grieving.

For now - the Dems need to shut up.

Let the witnesses, victims, experts & intellectuals do there work for now.

The truth will rise to the top.

But all people with responsibilities are not playing with anger right now because the reckless neglect is over and the healing is the most important thing. Hopeful stories are the thing they need to see on the T.V. The kids need to draw pictures and play "rescue" games where they play out all the roles. Including the ones the Bush WH refused to play.

I think this is very much the right thing to do.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

48. The Democrats hace to learn how to deal with Rove. They can't hide behind

that forever.

[applegrove]

51. They are. They know not to fall into traps that are legislation with

poison pills tacked on the dems cannot accept - then the bill like "armour to the military" is voted against by Dems and they get nailed in the election for that.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

52. Yeah like they won't block anyone unless they are "extreme"?

[applegrove]

69. No - like they will not willfully fall into traps. GOP is threatening to

dump drug plan to pay for Katrina. If the Dems keep insisting that GOP has to stop it with debt - they may try and play the elderly off Dems.

I don't know - I'm not in WAshington.

[ladylibertee]

59. YeAHHHH

:kick:

[political_invader]

42. We need real Leadership now !!

We as a PARTY will lose everything if the leadership doesn't lead we all are ready to support.
Dean IMO has been way to quiet. He should be on every channel both TV and radio screaming everyday demanding congress to have Rove and DeLay thrown in prison.

As much as I hate to admit it "The Contract to America" worked because they could sell a message whether you agreed with it or not.
Someone please tell me whats our message, our leadership is way to quiet. :shrug:

[applegrove]

49. The evacuees need calm & peace & to see hope. They need to

heal. These next weeks are so important to them. The Dems are doing the right thing.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

53. They need to know someone is there for them and the Dems should be

standing up.

[ladylibertee]

57. They need homes,jobs and the rest of their family members.....

They need action!!!!!

[political_invader]

62. right they need action

Just as the rest of us do.

[ladylibertee]

43. I got Feingold....He's as good as I'm gonna get in these parts.I'm

from California and I'm used to power houses like Ms. Barbara BOXER.however, I thing feingold has some spunk in him.And he's soft on the eyes. that always helps.LOL

[political_invader]

54. I know Fiengold

I have to agree I'm in California also. I'm with ya he has some spunk.:thumbsup: :toast:

[ladylibertee]

56. Yes Yes indeed he's got it.

[paulk]

74. exactly

anytime a Dem speaks up, the MSM turns them into the story, rather than what they said. Better to let BushCo keep on digging their hole. Force the media to focus on "reality". And the realities of Katrina and Iraq are getting harder and harder for the MSM to ignore.

Get the Democratic message out through the grassroots, where the MSM can't filter it.

[Peter Frank]

76. It's Because I Want *Co Out That I Suggest That...

...opposition leaders reclaim the high road. Bush is finally being recognized for owning the low road.

Let him be seen to occupy it alone.

[political_invader]

21. What are you talking about

It is time to go for the jugular. These Crooks have stole enough from us. It is going to take 10+ years to clean up this mess.

For anyone to say don't over play our hand is crazy. IMO thats the attitude that has gotten us in this mess we haven't played by the same rules these pukes are playing. So I say to hell with them all I hope they burn.:evilgrin:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

23. And, when the backlash happens from the Rovies the Demos are

going to have to fight back and call it as they see it!!

[political_invader]

33. I'm ready Lets get it on with them I am tired of getting pushed around

Its time now to fight back. If they wanna Lieor steal. your right call as you see it. But dammit the last thing I am going to do is stand by or laydown and take it.

[applegrove]

24. The truth is the jugular. Because they are liars & hypocrites.

[charlie]

26. No danger of THAT happening n/t

[Crazy Guggenheim]

27. LOL.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

39. So what is the delicate balance?

[Chevy]

50. Bush is Lame duck.

Marginalize him and focus on his allies.Fox News(Owned by that Australian guy)Diebold,Dopey Limbaugh etc. Focus on their lies and propaganda.Let Democrats focus on policy and Repugs in house and senate.

[political_invader]

55. Hi chevy Welcome to DU !!

:toast:

[political_invader]

58. Limpballs looking like this

He is the biggest lame I really Don't wanna get started on this clown

[ladylibertee]

60. LOL too Funny.Send it to Bush and say "New FEMA" director

[political_invader]

63. LOL never thougt of doing that nt

[Crazy Guggenheim]

64. Can I post that in The Lounge?

[political_invader]

65. sure nt

[Crazy Guggenheim]

66. Thanks.

[IChing]

44. you have never played poker have you?

This from the editorial section, I submitted , hands are in poker not your team.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x157627

[Chevy]

68. Fuzzy Math!!

Time to bring this oldie out of the cupboard.
Statement to use against freepers"Republicans are using fuzzy math with our tax dollars..
Let the repugs run from Bush on that statement or stand their ground on out of control spending.

Cheers Political_Invader:toast:

[rman]

72. you mean "be quiet" - some more?

no? then what DO you mean by overplaying their hand?