Ok, what is up with all the Scientology crap at DU lately?

[Melodybe]

Scientology is nothing more that pop psychology and suedo religion. Any religion that charges you money for enlightenment is bogus!

They have a long history of murder, blackmail, thievery, and, oh yeah they like to take over governments! But let's not forget the slave-labor, cause they do that too.

I do not want some of the more fragile people here exposed to that BS.

It is not a religion, it is a scam!

This is a board dedicated to truth and justice, scientology offers neither.

L. Ron Hubbard was a scienficion novelist who, on a bet, started a religion that teaches you after $100,000 that an alien stuffed people into volcanos while the dinosaurs were running around.

It is a dangerous cult where fools are quickly seperated from their money.

I have known one person that fell for this and they deeply regretted it.

Mods. I am so serious, if I see it, I'm hitting alert.

[beam me up scottie]

1. Not as long as christianity.

And it's not up to you to decide which cults are acceptable.
Christianity has been doing all those things for over 2000 years.

[Melodybe]

7. And we all see how well that ended up, why not nip it in the bud?

Christianity has more blood on it's hands than any other religion.

I repeat any religion that charges you money for enlightenment is bogus.

[noamnety]

14. ANY religion?

"WAVERLY, Ohio -- A 65-year-old wheelchair-bound woman with congestive heart failure was kicked out of her church because she was not paying her tithe, NBC 4 reported."

http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4727464/detail.html

How do you feel about churches that kick out the nontithers? Are they all bogus?

[BBradley]

9. I'm not aware of Christianity ever requiring it's followers to pay

to find out what they believe.

[Melodybe]

11. I was actually thinking of Martin Luther and the history of the Catholic

church charging for entrance to heaven.

But have you ever listened to televangelists, that's all they are doing. They totally guilt people into giving money.

[BBradley]

15. There's a difference between what televangelists do, and the way

Scientology is set up. The televangelists may ask for money, but you don't need to pay them to read the next gospel.

[jmowreader]

16. Are you referring to the Indulgences?

There was a Pope who got caught selling indulgences.

An indulgence in the Catholic Vulgate is "remission of the temporal punishment due to sin, the guilt of which has been forgiven." It is not permission to sin.

However, this one Pope decided to raise a little extra cash for the Church by selling indulgences for murder, rape and various other felonies. Give the Pope 20 gold louis and he would grant you an indulgence that allowed you to rape any woman you could catch. This Pope is in hell.

Your evaluation of televangelists is spot on. Jesus He Loves Me!

[beam me up scottie]

13. I consider catholics to be christian, don't you?

And if you want to know how important money is, two words:

Creflo Dollar

[Dorian Gray]

38. Scientology...

I agree with the OP's sentiments re: Scientology, but I also agree with you, Beam Me Up... We shouldn't ban the religion here.

[beam me up scottie]

40. I just posted a definition of cult below.

Scientologists consider it a religion.
I consider religions cults but I don't think their adherents should be censored unless they proselytize.

[tlsmith1963]

2. Started By a Science Fiction Writer on a Bet!

Why isn't that enough to make people think Scientology is bogus? Oh well, people believe Bush is a great President, too. There's a sucker born every minute, as they say.

Tammy

[Orangepeel]

3. Scientology is in the news lately

that's why it is at DU lately.

[sybylla]

4. Haven't been to the Meeting Room lately, have you?

The admins decided long ago not to police the BS that has to do with spiritually and intellectually defrauding people.

It would be nice, though, if they would force it to stay in one forum - on the order of the stuff that must stay in the lounge. I get tired of seeing all that crap in GD and other places where we are supposedly discussing legit political issues.

[Redstone]

5. Oh no, not this again. Here we go with the aliens in the volcanoes,

that somehow infect your mind, yacketa yacketa yacketa, and you gotta give them fifteen grand to chase them out and, presumably, back into the volcanoes.

What a crock of crap. I hope you do alert on whatever you see; I'll do the same. These nutbars are every bit as disruptive as the freeper trolls.

Redstone

[henslee]

36. Ouch, a thetan just crawled up my ass.

[Redstone]

37. It hurts because it's in the wrong place.

Supposed to be in your brain. But I suppose they'll get it out of your butt for an extra five grand or so.

Redstone

[Zhade]

42. Yeah - I mean, aliens in volcanoes?

What's next, a worldwide flood that kills all of humanity but a handful of people? A resurrection of a dead man? A virgin birth?

[LostinVA]

53. It'll cost you quite a bit more than 15K to become clear n/t

[MissB]

6. Meh. These things go in cycles.

When I see those threads, I use the "hide thread" function. I have zero interest in the discussion of the religion versus cult status of scientology. :shrug:

[Qibing Zero]

20. It's nothing but the level of social acceptance, anyhow. nt

[HawkerHurricane]

8. I aggree with everything BUT...

The part about a bet.

The story is that L. Ron Hubbard started Dianetics on a bet, but went bankrupt because
a. There was no need for a constant payment, you bought the book and you were done.
b. His organization 'forgot' to pay it's income taxes.

This led to L. Ron bemoaning his fate at a Science Fiction convention, where Robert Heinlien (Patriot, Libertarian, Cynic) told him that his mistake was setting it up as a business. "You want to make real money? Set it up as a Religion!"

I hope the RAH was being facetious. But L. Ron took it seriously, and Scientology was born. Different from Dianetics in that
a. You can't just buy the book, you've got to get the e-readings, the special tests, the pamphlets and the membership fees and dues (or tithes) and...
b. As a religion, it's untaxable.

[Mythsaje]

17. I think he was being facetious

but you never know with Heinlein. :D He could have himself, had he wanted to. Stranger in a Strange Land is a cult classic, and one heck of a book, in my opinion.

I'd heard it was Heinlein that had suggested that to Hubbard, but I wasn't certain.

[HawkerHurricane]

23. R.A.H.

Made many anti-organized religion comments in his books, from his slamming of Fosterism (fundie "Christianity" with a major re-write and much showmanship) in Stranger to his comments in 'Time enough for Love' ("It's lovely work if you can stomach it"), makes me wonder if he was commenting on L.Ron's "Church".

[tkmorris]

28. Heinlein thought religion was mind candy

for people with astoundingly weak minds. He disdained organized religion as a con job, and those who followed them as gullible sheep. I don't have any idea if the story about the Hubbard conversation is true but it is EXACTLY the kind of comment he would have made. Someone should ask Virginia about that, she might tell now. Is she still alive? Last I heard she was.

[Mythsaje]

34. No, I believe she's gone now.

I think I read something on the Heinlein Society's page--or on one of the pages linked there.

Not a hundred percent on that, though.

[Mythsaje]

35. My cynicism re: organized religion

stems a lot from having read a lot of Heinlein when I was in grade school and junior high.

[KerryOn]

10. I agree with you Melodybe...

I don't know if I would call it a cult or not, but it sure should not be called a religion.

It's all top secrete, and you have to pay $$$ to find out what its about. What kind of religion is that? If you ask me these people are better rip off artists than the televangelists.

[Melodybe]

12. They definely should not get tax free status.

I consider televangelists' brand of christianity and scientology the same way.

You'll get no arguments from me there.

[bobbieinok]

52. I/ve been told there many secrets in Mormonism known only to the initiate

initiated

I don't know what qualifies you to be one 'in the know', but it's not money

[LostinVA]

54. Lots of books published by ex-Mormons that tell all

A good friend of mine is an ex-Mormon, and went through a tabernacle wedding when they still did all of that slitting the throat stuff. She still has her Celestial Garment/Underwear, although she of course never wears it anymore. (except once when she was drunk, as a joke)

Joseph Smith was a Freemason, and incorporated a bunch of its symbols, secret stuff into Mormomnism...

[KerryOn]

55. And you can't tell me either right?

Because its top secrete.

How much do they charge for the information at each level? Is their a published list somewhere showing the fees and what each level means?

[G_j]

18. I really don't care

and I know nothing about Scientology. But on principal don't you think posting links would be appropriate when you are accusing people of everything from taking over governments to murder?
If you are asking people to keep to higher standards in posting, then why not set an example?

[G_j]

19. delete

dupe

[sweetheart]

21. What is it worth then?

How much money is enlightenment worth?

Perhaps people pay money for powers and experiences, just like in
dysneyland, where you can fly on an elephant. What is the experience
of total joy and completion worth?

What is it worth to burn ones soul with aspiration for god, that in
every nuance of life, comes alive such subtlety.

If everything has a price, including sex, surely enlightenment is
likewise. You get what you pay for. Scientology seems to offer its
clan happiness, and in a world of free religion, i wish them well.

[blogslut]

50. With Bob, you get eternal salvation for $30.00

Guaranteed or your money back!

http://subgenius.com/scatalog/membership.htm

God is dog spelled backwards but Bob is always boB. :)

[Cleita]

22. I am usually on your side, but you are making a bunch

of accusations without some background. I do not care for Scientology myself because it is a money making operation and even Hubbard distanced himself towards his end with the organization. But if you are going to expose a racket, put some concrete facts down, other than that you lose your credibility.

I haven't read the threads that point in that direction, but amazingly many of us DUers do have a brain or two to figure out who the wackos are.

[FM Arouet666]

24. It's not all that bad a religion

Try this site
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/

Sounds pretty sane to me. That is if you have just smoked three joints and consumed two liters of wine. :evilgrin:

[iconoclastic cat]

26. Hey, watch it! I'm a member of the Three-Joints-and-Two-Liters sect!

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Can I join?

That's a sect I could dig.

Is the tithe joints and liters? :)

[iconoclastic cat]

25. We looooove the Leader!

[Zhade]

44. "You know I try to put the best face on everything...

...but there's no face on that damn bean!"

[cynatnite]

27. Most organized religion is a scam, IMO, cept for Flying Spaghetti Monster

This is no different.

I have little use for organized religion because it's been used to govern, declare war, subjugate women and take as much money as is humanly possible.

No news there.

Flying Spaghetti Monster has some appeal ;)

[beam me up scottie]

30. Don't forget mind control.

And people think they have to worry about aliens?

oy.

All hail His Noodly Appendage!

[Zhade]

45. I assume you've played the newest game featuring the FSM?

http://www.venganza.org/games/index_large.htm

:rofl:

[TimeChaser]

29. Let's see

I've never bothered to post in a Scientology thread before, but I guess I'll just give my opinion here and be done with it.

Frankly, I don't care what a person believes. If they want to believe in Xenu and aliens in volcanos, that's fine with me. It is the actions of the "Church of Scientology" that I think are disgusting.

[Divine Discontent]

31. it's their belief, but, if it's forced

donations, then it's a cult. I am a Christian, and I don't have to give to anyone to be a Christian. I donate my time, and when I'm able, money. That is what Christ teaches me. Scientology, as many say, is more than just a belief system. And if so, that's scary. I read that report on that poor woman in Ohio who was kicked out by that wacky small church. You know, people CHOOSE to be cruel, it doesn't make the God they worship stupid. Jesus didn't condone violence, so therefore, the persecutions of people by mostly the catholic church back in the day, and now the right wing fundies, are NOT approved of by Christ.

Please don't think negatively on Jesus, just think poorly upon a lot of His followers, because everyone is imperfect.

Thanks!

[jazzjunkysue]

33. Agree. Take it to a philosophy/religion board.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Definition of "cult"

From WordNet, a lexical database for the English language.

S: (n) cult (adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices)
S: (n) fad, craze, furor, furore, cult, rage (an interest followed with exaggerated zeal) "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
S: (n) cult, cultus, religious cult (a system of religious beliefs and rituals) "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=cult

[Zhade]

41. You just described all organized monotheistic authoritarian religions.

(Note to potential panty-wadders: spiritual people are quite different from religious people. So keep those tighty-whities smooth and unknotted, 'kay?)

[Beaverhausen]

43. How many Scientologists do you know personally?

If you don't than how can you definitively decide it's bogus.

It works for them. I know many of them (no, I'm not one- I'm a pagan) and they are all happy, healthy and very successful people.

It's none of your damn business anyway.

[tocqueville]

46. All my support to melodybe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy

Only a little example

Fair Game

Hubbard detailed his rules for attacking critics in a number of policy letters, including one often quoted by critics as "the Fair Game policy." This allowed that those who had been declared enemies of the Church, called "suppressive persons" or simply "SP," "May be deprived of property or injured by any means... May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

Scientologists sometimes claim that Hubbard canceled the Fair Game policy in 1968. What the "HCO Policy Letter of 21 October 1968" actually says, however, is "The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations. This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP."

Under pressure by separate investigations into Scientology in England, New Zealand and Australia, and bad publicity in the press, Fair Game was publicly cancelled in 1969. (HCOPL Mar 7, 1969)

However, in 1977, top officials of Scientology's "Guardian's Office," an internal security force run by Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue Hubbard, did admit that fair game was policy in the GO. (Us vs Kember, Budlong Sentencing Memorandum - Undated, 1981).

In separate cases in 1979 and 1984, attorneys for Scientology argued that the Fair Game policy was in fact a core belief of Scientology and as such deserved protection as religious expression.

_______________________________________________________________
Scientology is only considered as a religion in the US and Australia.
Most European countries consider them as a dangerous cult. Such as they can be forbidden to exercise.

[LSK]

47. i dont see many here on DU promoting it

They may be discussing it or bashing it, but I dont see many here promoting it.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. "this is a board dedicated to truth and justice... ******* offers neither"

I could fill in that ****** blank with a LOT of various religions, belief systems, and philosophical outlooks, but I won't... because that's against the rules and counter-productive.

Just keep it out of my Government and Constitution, my wife's birth control prescription, and my kids' public school science classes-- and we'll all get along JUST fine.

[Jersey Devil]

49. Wasn't Kirstie Alley wearing a scientology shirt in NO?

I thought I saw that. Didn't know she was an alien though.

[Pepperbelly]

51. What scientologist crap?

Just curious. I hadn't noticed any of late.

[Greyhound]

56. From one that does not believe, I don't see any substantial

difference between scientology and christianity, or judaism, or islam. They all purport to know THE TRUTH, and will share it with you if you will only give a little... frequently... forever.
How is the alien/volcano thing any less plausible that the invisible man that watches everything all the time, but doesn't interfere, except when it suits his unknowable plan?

Religion is a scam. In fact, it is the oldest scam. :shrug: