can anyone advise on backup space heaters when power is out

[faithnotgreed]

i completely understand that its not wise to burn fuel based heaters overnight due to oxygenation

however i am looking for something that would serve as efficient backup in case of power outage or even something that could replace electric space heaters if thats possible
i care very much about using resources wisely and leaving a "small" footprint

i live in a small old apt and do not get much electricity (so fuel based also looks tempting for that reason since it uses less electricity)
as much as i would like to clearly i cannot install solar heat or wood burning stove

i can of course seal up leaks etc but in case of power outage i want to know what is the wisest realistic option

thank you for all guidance

[Vincardog]

1. Hot watter bottles

[faithnotgreed]

7. yes that certainly should be considered in emergency

[phantom power]

2. I've seen compact propane heaters at places like REI.com

As you say, you need to be real, real careful when burning fuel indoors.

[faithnotgreed]

32. yes - thank you phantom power

i esp need to be very careful so i will look into the ventless ir propane heat and gel fuel as others have pointed me to here

thank you

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. a woodstove

[acmejack]

4. Corn stoves are interesting

http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/434180.htm

http://www.cornstove.ca/

[bahrbearian]

19. Yeah except you need electricty to run one

I've been thinking about one, just haven't talked to anyone who has used one.

[Vinca]

33. We bought a Harman pellet stove last week. It burns both pellets

and corn. We hooked it up a couple of days ago and are really impressed with it. It's got a little computer built into it and is automatic - feeds in the pellets, keeps the temperature even, etc. The great thing about them is they don't cause creosote so you don't have to worry about chimney fires. They can also be installed to exhaust straight through a wall so you don't need a chimney. You do need electricity for them though.

[bahrbearian]

49. Thanks for the tip, I was looking for a wood/corn stove..

does it run off a thermostat?

[Vinca]

55. Yes. There's a wire that comes out the back and you position

it wherever you want it. It also runs on a basic "high/medium/low" sort of mode if you prefer that to the temperature sensor. From what I can gather, Harman is considered the "Cadillac" of pellet stoves, but I think this is really a case of you get what you pay for. We checked out another one at a big box store for $1,000 less, but it was twice as big in size and obviously inferior in quality. Apparently some pellet stoves can only burn certain grades of fuel, but Harman stoves will burn any of them. Ours is supposed to heat 2200 SF and costs $2,500. Pellets for the winter (in New Hampshire) will run about $1,000. That total will probably be equal to or less than what our oil costs would be this winter so by next year we'll have already paid for the stove. I get the impression the Harman stoves hold their value pretty well, too. A used one identical to ours sold on ebay recently for just a couple of hundred bucks less than what we paid for a new one.

[faithnotgreed]

25. heres to fuel alternatives

i wish there was someway i could make that work in a small apt that i dont own

i used to have pellet fuel basket with my wood stove
neither easy nor efficient heat i still loved using it because it didnt use fossil fuel

[notadmblnd]

5. last ice storm we had.. had to go live at mothers for a week

it was not fun. My husband contracted pneumonia, which I'm sure contributed to his death. I have since bought a generator and installed a transfer switch with four circuits one directly connected to the furnace. I'll not spend another week at my moms. Right now, I'm looking at something that heats using infrared light and it is supposed to used less electricty that a coffee pot, but still, it's electricty. Maybe check into something that uses that gel fuel?

[faithnotgreed]

9. wow - i am so sorry about that

my sister died of pneumonia a few years ago so i really am sorry for what that must have been for both of you...

thank you for the suggestion
i hate to ask anything considering what youve written here but may i ask what gel fuel is

[notadmblnd]

12. here, look at this

http://www.fire-science.com/po-gel.htm

this is just one of the options says it doesn't need venting
snip: The Richmond is a gel fuel fireplace with a Cherry, Antique White or Golden Oak mantel. Experience the warmth of a real fire in any room of your home without the need for a chimney, exterior vent, or electric/gas hookup

[faithnotgreed]

16. ok - whats the catch

it looks like one option that i am looking for

do you have one or know someone who does
are there toxic emissions AT ALL

i ultimately care most about toxicity and efficiency
i certainly will look at this further and thank you so much for all information

[notadmblnd]

21. No, I don't know anyone that has one

price seems pretty reasonable though. especially if you are only going to use it in emergencies. Attractive too. I don't know if there is a catch, I just googled gel fuel and this is the first site I came upon.

[faithnotgreed]

24. ok - thank you so much

i hadnt ever heard of gel fuel so youre way ahead of me

thanks for sharing that and i will keep looking into it

[iverglas]

36. thank you too!

I've procrastinated for 3 years on getting a gas fireplace installed -- we have electric baseboard heat ... the gummint paid me to convert when I renovated in 1982. It's good in that it spot-heats a largish house for 2 people, i.e. we heat only the room/floor we're in, but it gets damned cold here, the winters are long, and electricity prices are only rising.

This might be actually exactly what we need. The cost of running it will be a consideration (haven't quite figured that out yet), but the start-up expense is several thousand dollars less than putting in a direct-vent natural gas fireplace.

Here's some technical info that might help someone thinking about it:
http://www.environmentalchoice.com/grouppdf/CCD-073a%20Combustible%20Gel%20Products%20(E)._191.pdf

(It refers to Cdn standards etc., but it's pretty basic.)

[notadmblnd]

38. I know what you mean.. my house is old and drafty too

I've put in new windows and doors and it has helped alot. But in the winter I still swear I can feel cold air blowing in. I just want something that will allow me to turn the furnace down and only heat the living area in the evening when we are all at home. I like a cool room for sleeping though. I don't know if I'll go with the attractive gel fuel fireplace or the infrared portable furnace yet. It looks like it will cost about 4 dollars for 3 hours of heat but if it's only for emergency that it might be cost effective. I'm leaning toward the portable furnace since I have emergency backup power and the cost or electricty to use it sounds minimal. here's the link to the portable furnace if you want to check those out.

http://www.portablefurnace.com/estore/index.html

[iverglas]

40. other tricks

The hairdryer-plastic window covering is amazingly effective. We've used it for several years.

Yes, it's plastic, and it goes to landfill. I don't even use plastic food wrap, I use only my own permanent cloth or tarpaulin-plastic bags for shopping, etc., so the idea doesn't thrill me. But really, it's a very few square feet of thin plastic, once a year, and it's worth far more than its weight in heating fuel conservation. It cuts both drafts and direct heat loss through glass really significantly, and it's cheap.

In addition, just good old-fashioned heavy draperies. We have roll-up blinds on our windows, with curtains over top. Put the blinds down, and you immediately feel the difference. With the blinds up, you can just feel the cold air falling on you.

My downstairs is open-plan with no doors in what doorways there are. I hang heavy curtains in all doorways leading to other parts of the house -- stairs, back room. We don't heat the back sitting room, an addition on the house with a big blass patio door, in winter -- hang a curtain across the patio door, curtain off the door to the room, curtain off the door to the little hallway leading to it and the back door, hang a heavy curtain over the back door itself. Expandable curtain/shower rods and some cheap fabric works wonders. The more insulated the room where you're using any heat source, and the smaller an area you're trying to keep warm, the better.

And I'm with the socks and comforters crowd -- never understood why anyone would think it's reasonable to heat the house so that it is warm enough to just sit around watching TV in a T-shirt in. That's what summer is. Winter isn't summer, and until pretty recently nobody expected to live as if it were.

Also, get cats. They want your body heat in winter, but they give off more than they extract -- and if you can get them to stay under the comforter, so much the better.

[faithnotgreed]

43. good information iverglas

youre right
its winter and we should live as such

i think my plan is to get more comforters and a couple well insulated sleeping bags and as for the cats i already have those (they would be very upset to have any more though unfortunately)

i also have the heavy curtains and decently efficient windows and lots of warm ski socks

thanks again

[iverglas]

47. windows!

Really -- and I'll press the point -- it almost doesn't matter how efficient your windows are, the hairdryer plastic will boost their efficiency hugely.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/factsheets/ed2.html

A low "tech" and inexpensive alternative is to install
polyethelene plastic sheets or films on the room side of
the window. You can find "do-it-yourself" kits in
hardware and home improvement stores, which are
plastic films that you tape over the window. Using a hair
dryer to shrink-wrap the film around the window helps
to tighten the film and improve its transparency. Such kits
are used once and then removed at the end of the
season.

In general, plastics are most economical for people with
small budgets or who live in apartments. The primary
advantage is to reduce air leakage into and out of the
window. While inexpensive and relatively easy to install,
they are easy to damage. Also, some plastic films may
significantly reduce visibility and degrade over time when
exposed to sunlight.

The ones we use are absolutely invisible -- although we tend to leave a bit of slack in them when doing the hairdryer-shrinking, because if they're tight as a drum they're more susceptible to tearing.




http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Improve/InsStrmWnd.html%20

Note that if you don't need to open the window in other seasons, the plastic can last more than one winter.

Actually, I keep thinking about getting plexiglass cut to fit that can be double-sided taped to the inside window frame (i.e. covering the entire window itself, including where the window meets the house and drafts occur -- that's what the shrink plastic does, it goes over the entire window opening). Maybe this year ... that's quite cheap, too. Here's someone who's done basically that:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/energy/conservation/basics_1/window_cover.htm

He overestimates the cost of the shrink-wrap. You could do several regular-sized windows for under $10.

[faithnotgreed]

48. by all means press the point - im with you for sure

i used to do this on my house so i know its important and believe in using this type of efficient and smart insulation

thanks

[notadmblnd]

45. I have two of the beasts and yes they sleep with me

one likes to be right on top of me she's gone flying a couple of times when I've turned over. I use down feather beds in the winter, I'm not concerned at night when I'm sleeping as long as the pipes don't freeze. I don't feel the cold air coming in through the windows, I feel it at the floor and believe me I believed in the plastic covering the windows too. I do have a tension rod and curtain up over the stairs leading to the upper level of the house and this year I'm going to close off the heat vent as we are not currently using the dormer for anything more than storage. My flannel penguin PJ's is what I live in in the winter.

Funny story about tensions rods since you brought them up. One day when my son was about 4 we were at Kmarts and I mentioned that I needed to get a tension rod for the kitchen window, he said "what's that for mom? To get my attention?" I guess you had to be there, but at the time it was halarious.

[faithnotgreed]

41. i checked out both your links - the gel fp doesnt use electricity

which is a plus
but each gel fuel lasts for 2-3 hours which doesnt work for overnight heat which is a drawback

the portable heater does use electricity but is efficient (for electricity) and heats the right amount of space

so im still not sure but its good information
thanks

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. any fuel based heater

must be properly vented. This is the key. If you're not asfixiated, accumulated gas could explode. This also goes for gas kitchen stoves as well.

We burn wood at our house but have a small propane heater by our water pipes. It is properly vented, but we check it regularly. Trouble is, to use a gas heater, you need to have pipes installed. And heating stoves with a canister, like a Coleman stove, isn't going to give you much heat for your expense, plus you have the dangers of not being vented, as mentioned above.

I would recommend getting a down comforter and wool socks, and, if your landlord allows it, a dog to help keep you warm.

[faithnotgreed]

13. thank you - i know youre right

i was hoping there was some quality alternative to kerosene/propane heaters etc that would allow some fuel based heat but did so without the dangers

thank you for the reminder
i continue to know it but since i dont keep up with this kind of thing then i wanted to hear from those who do

[serryjw]

35. I live in D/T Denver and socks and comforter work for me

What about AIR...w/o electricity! I have watched Denver get hotter and hotter (global warming) and it's very tough for me to live in 90 degree weather w/o air.

[NMDemDist2]

8. can you get a gas line installed? Ventless fireplaces are a good option

http://www.improvementscatalog.com/parent.asp?product=246826x&dept_id=10840&cm_ven=Froogle&cm_cat=FireplacesMantelsHearth&cm_pla=Ventless_Gas_Firepla&cm_ite=246792BGE&code=macs=MP5WFGL

or a gel fireplace if you can't get a gas line

http://www.brandsonsale.com/vengelfir.html

shop around on both, the first link is a pricey place

[faithnotgreed]

10. i wish - they do have natural gas radiators in the apt

but it was a bit more hit and miss than was comfortable sometimes
and they are very good at responding and doing what they can but its an old apt and the rent is very fair considering i live in dc

so i am anticipating that this winter may get dicey since natural gas is going up quite a bit all over
just want to have some backup and am not sure what that should be

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

11. I doubt they are environmently friendly, but a friend of mine used

to use a kerosene heater when his boiler died. He only used it in the kitchen as the woodstove took care of the rest of the house.

[faithnotgreed]

20. thank you - i imagine using it in the kitchen makes the difference

esp on a temporary basis

i look into kerosene and propane
but i know with people and cats i want to be very careful about this and clearly kerosene has to be used with caution and not overnight in a closed up space

thanks

[jpak]

14. Portable kerosene heaters might be an option

but I would not recommend.

http://www.umext.maine.edu/emergency/9026.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000801-d000900/d000884/d000884.html

Catalytic propane heaters might be a better option, but one still has to be careful with them...

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5053A751&categoryid=3000

I always keep 4 oil lamps on hand for winter blackouts. They provide light and put out a surprising amount of heat - but you have to be VERY careful with them (think: noxious gases - breakage - fire - etc).

[faithnotgreed]

30. thanks jpak

anything that comes with that warning i know full well i better not even consider
so thank you for the information and disclosure

i know i have to come up with something so that i will feel somewhat prepared come december when the heat hasnt been properly turned on here

[bahrbearian]

15. Infared Propane space heater

there are all sizes you'll need a propane bottle.

[faithnotgreed]

23. is there any venting needed

that photo looks like something i had in a converted attic when i had a house in nc

[bahrbearian]

27. No venting needed , it has an O2 sensor. Puts out a lot of heat.

[faithnotgreed]

29. ok - well that goes on the list

thank you so much

i had forgotten if mine was vented or not but it is definitely familiar

[gcbrown1147]

17. We use a kerosene space heater as a backup

The advantage is that they are inexpensive, produce a lot of heat for their size, are designed for indoor use, and can sit in a garage unused for years and start right up when you need them.

In our area, we can count on the power going out at least once/winter, sometimes for days. The kerosene heater has come in handy more than a dozen times.

For more info on this topic, you might want to check Mother Earth News at: http://www.motherearthnews.com/do_it_yourself/2004_Febuary_March/Emergency_Essentials__Heating__Cooking___Lighting

PS. You're wise to be thinking of this now. Preseason sales are starting up.

[faithnotgreed]

28. thank you gc -welcome to the fun

and i will check out mother earth news
i should have done that already

and i am conflicted because i wanted something straightforward as kerosene but i know i cant run them overnight in this apt so i am hoping something comes along that fits everything

thanks again

[sandnsea]

18. Here's some new kersone heaters

I don't know anything about the heaters, but I do know the people are honest. They are clients, but I don't put just any clients up on DU. They will answer any questions you've got on the topic.

http://www.philssawshop.com/kerosene.htm

[faithnotgreed]

26. thank you kindly - i do have some interest in recent

products since i dont keep up with this at all

thank you again
i will check that site out

[ThoughtCriminal]

22. "HotHands" - Hand and body warmers.

These are pocket sized chemical heaters that are air-activated (no fuel, no electricty). They are safe (no flame), odorless and last up to 18 hours. They won't heat your house, but in an emergency, can keep you warm - especially hands and feet.

Since I moved to a colder part of the state, I stocked up on a some of these in case of emergency. There are other brand names and can usually be found with sporting goods. During winter, I keep a couple in the car too.

Edit:
If you google, many on-line sources show up:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2003-41,GGLD:en&q=hot+hands+warmers

One other option occured to me, but I do not know how well it would work. I've seen electric heaters that are designed to plug into an automobile cigarette lighter. There are also rechargable battery packs that have cigarette lighter outlets. I do not think this would heat even a small room for very long, but it might help.

[faithnotgreed]

31. that does sound nice though im hesitant to put anything chemical directly

on my body but its a great thing in an emergency im sure

i will check them out
thanks

[ThoughtCriminal]

34. Safe, but they advise against using while sleeping

It's in a pouch, so there is no direct contact with the chemical. I put a hand towel between the warmer and my body for comfort since the pouches are plastic and they can get hot.

The chemical ingredient is iron powder.

[CountAllVotes]

37. I lived in a similar situation

a small apt. and it had virtually no insulation. Main source of heat was a wood burning stove and electricity as a back-up.

When the power failed, the wood stove was there but it cost a lot of money to buy the wood to heat this small apt. with.

I ended up buying a -30 degree sleeping bag and kept it on my bed and slept with it on me during power outages that sometimes lasted for 2 weeks. It was a hell.

I don't know what to advise you except get a lot of very warm clothing and footwear. That is what I did.

As for the wood stove idea - wood is running out now too here where I live which is a cancer ridden area from the timber industry. Most of the wood is gone now and the cost is $300+ a cord these days last I heard. I'd burn a cord a month in that tiny apt. in the winter time. Oh it was so very very cold. The sleeping bag helped quite a bit and yes, I still have it too *just in case*.

:kick:

[faithnotgreed]

39. thank you - thats a good idea

i know i want to get a couple electric blankets as well but im still trying to figure out what i can use for overnight when its terribly cold andyoure trying to sleep

thanks for the sleeping bag reminder

[bananas]

46. How about a featherbed?

They are very warm.

[ThoughtCriminal]

42. Surviving heat when the power goes out

Summer without AC can be worse than winter without heat in many places. One difference though is that unlike an ice storm it is at least possible to go somewhere else.

I lived in the desert for over 20 years, and sometimes the power would go out - panic sets in quickly when it's 116 F.

You need a way to save what is in the refrigerator. We kept some good ice boxes handy. At one point, we had a much bigger freezer than we needed and I kept several big containers of water frozen. If the power fails, these can help keep things cold for a while.

There are some portable devices available - water misters, ice packs, battery operated fans. None of these are perfect, but at times any relief is worthwhile. There coolers that run off car batteries that could keep some beverages cool.

Speaking of beverages - IMHO nothing is better than water for managing extreme heat. Drink lots of it.

My best cooling off tip
A very useful and sometimes life-saving way to cool off is to fill the bathtub with water and get in. An unheated spa on a shady back porch is even better.

[Eastside Blue]

44. Have been looking for something myself in case of emergency ...

I'm thinking of a portable propane heater. I found one here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005LEXI/ref=wl_it_dp/103-2143434-2764620?%5Fencoding=UTF8&coliid=IG3ZJOYM9WOD8&v=glance&colid=1QL68O0VIRU26

It has a low-oxygen shutoff system and will run on either standard 1 lb disposable propane cylinders or can be connected to a 20 lb tank with an optional hose adapter.

[faithnotgreed]

52. are you planning on using this indoors - i know it says it can be

used inside but proceed with caution
i read the reviews on the link and its important to know what youre going to use it for

im looking or something like this but one that doesnt create potentially dangerous situation

[lindisfarne]

50. Don't ever burn fuel-based heaters indoors. Carbon monoxide

builds up. Unless it's intended for indoor use and properly vented (never use a barbecue grill indoors either)

[faithnotgreed]

51. very true - there are some with oxygen sensors but even then

i dont think its a good idea unless its made for that

im moving on from that possibility now to getting a good sleeping bag + my good ski clothing + maybe electric blanket which uses less electricity + cats

[kitkat65]

53. Try to get your hands on an overstuffed down comforter

An old boyfriend had one from Germany. That thing could make toast in Siberia. Okay, I'm exxagerating but his bedroom was FREEZING and sometimes I had to kick it off during the night because I was drenched in sweat . . . and it wasn't from nooky.
:evilgrin:

[OxQQme]

54. Here's an FYI about fuel burning indoors.

Any fuel consumes oxygen. This oxy comes from the space the heater is in. If the space is closed and sealed, then the fire uses the oxy until there is none left (and the occupants of the space have none to breathe). Tries to suck outside air into the room through any and all cracks and crevices. You can feel this or observe it with a burning incense stick.
Now, if you were to feed the fire (no matter the fuel) with outside air vented into the fire, using a dryer vent hose, it will not use up the oxy in the room. An additional bonus is that hot air is expanded and pressurizes the room. Then if you crack a window open and observe (incense smoke), the hot pressurized air forces itself OUT, moving the warm air to any room of your choice.
I've heated with wood before. Warms you up before you even burn it if you use an ax to split it. Wood stove plus outside air for the burn worked in NE Washington during some mighty cold winters.