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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:49 PM
Original message
Dean is asked to release gubernatorial records
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 04:53 PM by retyred
Dean is asked to release gubernatorial records
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/02/dean_is_asked_to_release_gubernatorial_records/

Dean, who served as governor for 11 years, negotiated an unprecedented 10-year seal on correspondence from his administration, saying at the time that he didn't want the documents made public because he feared embarrassing revelations in future endeavors.

In a letter to Dean, Thomas Fitton -- president of Judicial Watch, the group pushing for the document disclosure -- wrote, "Failure on your part to provide full disclosure of your records as governor raises disturbing questions concerning accountability and transparency."

<snip>

In a written statement, the Dean campaign said: Those documents currently under seal will remain under seal until January 2013 as per the agreement with the secretary of state."

It is not entirely clear which records Dean has sealed; he has not outlined their contents to the state. A review of documents that he did make available suggests that internal State House documents -- particularly those from him to his staff and vice versa -- have been withheld from public view.

*****************

Now I realize it is Judicial Watch and Dean does have a right (by law) to hide/seal his records from enquiring minds, but the case for allowing the American people to view his gubernatorial records to better understand the man as a potential candidate is a legitimate request.

Deans statement that he didn't want the documents made public because he feared embarrassing revelations in future endeavors should throw up a big red flag about what it is that could be discovered about his past that could be embarrassing. Did he, like Clark, vote for a republican? Or possibly a Republican agenda issue? Did he as accused by Gebhardt actually support Newt and his bill? Or as accused actually subvert the law in order to install a long time friend with less than, shall we say, “the right of innocent until proven guilty” priorities as a judge? Or possibly not vote as claimed in some of Vermont’s political decisions thus making the claim of support of a bill more of a “now that it passed, I was always in favor of it” sort of claim.

A lot of “dust” has come up about the other candidates through various searches with a large gap on Dean due to this “Sealing of records” it would seem that once he had secured any possible threat of embarrassment was when he made his candidacy known.

How loud has the cry been for the revelation of bush’s records for public openness? How often has the cry “If you’ve got nothing to hide” be open and honest? by most if not all these same Dean supporters that mysteriously avoid the question of Dean’s sealed past. And why Dean’s attempt to seal them for 20 years instead of the 10 years offered? One not a Dean supporter must wonder.

Maybe Dean is as squeaky clean as he and his supporters would like everyone to believe, but I would think that since the cry from Dean supporters has been so vocal with regard to Clark’s past, that they above all others would be questioning their candidates motives for hiding his past from public view instead of gleefully trashing others not devious enough to take advantage the law to hide their embarrassing revelations.

I for one doubt his pious assertion that it is strictly for fear of embarrassment that these records are sealed, you don’t take the time or effort to seek a judges ruling to hide/seal your gubernatorial records for ten years, if you’ve been as squeaky clean and above board as you claim.

While I'm not above admitting I'm wrong should he choose to be open and honest and it is found that indeed there is nothing there, my distrust of this man as being not what he claims remains an issue for me. As long as he takes the “I have nothing to hide but you can’t see” type attitude that the bush administration holds so near and dear to their heart with the American public there isn't a reason for me to think that there is indeed alot of the real Dean that isn't real.

The ability to expose a candidates failings leads to an informed voting public and wrong decisions made after are decisions we live with, but to hide discovery until after the vote leads to a deceived voting public and a decision that should not be acceptable.

While I support Clark, I do so through personal research of what's available via open postings here on DU w/supported links and unsealed records, so far I find nothing to change my opinion that he is what he claims to be at this point in time, past revelations are just that...past, there is little in the past two years that I have had to re-evaluate and change, but there is also things I have and should the now revelation of misrepresentation surface, I will then reassess my support and possibly reconsider my choice.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Until we get to see Reagan's & Bush I's records. . .
. . .I have no problem with Dean keeping his records sealed.

Signed,

A Clark supporter.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I agree in part
All records should be unsealed.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. One of the things concealed...
...is the extent of his knowledge and support of Sierra Blanca and Yucca Mountain.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. This thread isn't about Clark, it's about Dean...
..and you just hate it.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. No. This thread is about hypocricy.
Show me the link to Clark's personal communiques. I'd love to read them. Really.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. As far as I know
Clark himself has not had them sealed....do a search



CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Give me the link to Clark's personal communiques.
Thanks, in advance.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Yoo-hoo!
Link?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. You enter a thread about Dean and demand something about Clark...
desperate.
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clar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Sorry
you cannot control the direction a thread takes. People have every right to respond as they see fit.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Sorry... I didn't do what you accused me of...
..nice try at changing the subject, though.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. That is not true. From the rules:
"Stay on topic. Don't jump into an unrelated discussion and introduce a barely-relevant tangent in order to bring up your pet issue."
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Oooh Clar, now don't you feel silly!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Sierra Blanca - 1993 - 1998
He first entered into that agreement in '93 or '94. Sierra Blanca was immediately named, if not known beforehand. Congress defeated it in 1995. In 1998 it went back to Congress. Paul Wellstone was leading the fight against it. Howard Dean certainly had time to figure it out and certainly knew there was a Democratic fight in Congress against this dumping. Dean didn't pull Vermont out; his action, or lack of action, speaks for itself.
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EagleEye Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. It was low grde radiation...X-rays. Give it a rest.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Bull...
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Wellstone would disagree
He refered to it as blatant environmental racism.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. If you already know what's in the records
and think it's bad, why not ask Dean's campaign about it?

Wouldn't direct answers to your specific questions be more helpful than a huge data dump of every scrap of paper generated during his terms?
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. On edit: Deleted
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 05:48 PM by retyred

CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. And his support for DEREGULATING ELECTRICITY.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html


Dean raises money from energy sources

February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.

>>>>>>>
“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition.

A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal. Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
>>>>>>>
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah yeah! This is about correspondence from People
regarding the civil union bill. And this is from "judicial watch" the group in which larry klayman is at the helm?...larry klayman who is running for Senator from Florida on the premise that he "will be Hillary Clinton's Worst Nightmare"?

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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I did not know he was running for office.
What party is he running under and how does he think he will be Hilary's worst nightmare?

I don't trust him either.....just curious.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. As I said
While I'm not above admitting I'm wrong should he choose to be open and honest and it is found that indeed there is nothing there, until then I have reservations.



CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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EagleEye Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I'm sure Dean is trembling
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I hope not
that would indicate caring which is a sign of weakness.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Great website Retyred
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 05:09 PM by madmax
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks
just my little effort to Support Terrorism By Telling The Truth



CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. He should counteroffer
Only when the Bush gubernatorial records and the Reagan presidential papers are released (excluding, of course, the outing of any CIA agents from the 1980's. That seems to be a real problem with this White House).
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. I want to see Clark's records from his time as an administrator of the NED
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 05:17 PM by w4rma
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I've read what
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 05:26 PM by retyred
others have had to say, I would like to read what Dean has had to say at the time, the link you posted was an accusation of Clark said by others in an attempt to show guilt by accusation and association, there is no direct communication from Clark showing any wrong doing.

On Edit: Again: if you would like to review what Clark has written, do a search....If you turn up zilch it won't be because Clark sought a ruling from a judge to have it sealed...it will be because it's not there.


CLARK FOR PRESIDENT
"I'm going to give them the TRUTH and they'll THINK it's hell."
Retyred IN FLA.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. On Dean...
"As governor, he fell under the sway of business interests." - Former Vermont governor Philip H. Hoff

For Vermonters who have seen Howard Dean up close and personal for the last eleven years as our governor, there's something darkly comical about watching the national media refer to him as the "liberal" in the race for the Democratic nomination for president. With few exceptions in the 11-plus years he held the state's top job, Dean was a conservative Democrat at best. And many in Vermont, particularly environmentalists, see Dean as just another Republican in Democrat's clothing.

Dean became Vermont's accidental governor in 1991 after Governor Richard Snelling died of a heart attack while swimming in his pool. Dean, the lieutenant governor at the time, took the state's political reins and immediately followed through with his promise not to offend the Snelling Republicans who occupied the executive branch. And Dean carried on with his right-leaning centrism for the next eleven, long years.

http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html

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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. You like Counterpunch? You'll love this...
(snip)

Clark is not a citizen soldier. He is a professional, a lifetime paid killer. And he has done a good deal of killing. His record just in the very brief and relatively small conflict in Serbia is filled with dead non-combatants, from busloads of cremated civilians to people blown apart at a downtown television station. I understand his thinking in doing these things. I just totally disagree with it.

His record there is marked also with unbelievably poor judgment. The attack he ordered against a large Russian force was deranged. Thank God, a tough old British general dared to disobey the order. Even the bombing of the Chinese embassy was never satisfactorily explained. His documented fraternization with a vicious war criminal appalled many Europeans.

Generals of any kind rarely make good democratic leaders. They have lived their entire adult lives barking orders at folks trained to respond to barking, basic military training having great similarities to obedience school for dogs. The entire purpose of much of this training is to efface individual will and initiative.

That's why generals come from places like West Point. They are imbued with an ideology not intended for enlisted men, an ideology of officers' class, privilege, and authority.

(more)

http://counterpunch.org/chuckman10032003.html
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yep! Already read that one!
Many times...
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catforclark2004 Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. I read your same thread here....see the DU link ....and find my answer
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. Yawn
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. Now, class, back to our topic...
Why should he? I'm a Clark supporter but I see no reason for this release and here's why:

1) I'm sure there are many things over his long period of governance that could be used against him, some fairly, but more would be twisted. Should he be our nominee, the Republicans would have a basket full of stuff to twist and cram down our throats. No thanks.

2) I'm consistent. As a Former Graham supporter, I NEVER wanted him to release any part of those diaries. And, as you see, it has been used very effectively to keep him from ever taking off. Dean has taken enough stands over his career so that most questions you might have should be answerable.

3) I'm assuming this is legal. If so, its his right. You can choose not to vote for him over this if you wish. I think, however, the number of votes he loses over this will be miniscule compared to the damage the Republican could use with the information.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
36. Oh sure, let's violate the privacy of all those gays and lesbians
who wrote to Dean during the Civil Unions fight, telling their personal stories and asking for his support. Wny not make those names available to the public so right wing hate mongers can harass them. The only things sealed are his private correspondence with his constituents and people who wrote to him. Everything he ever did politically in Vermont is a matter of public knowledge and can be found by simply looking. The competition is just frustrated because they can't find any dirt on Dean. So, they assume that there is "dirt" sealed. The fact of the matter is, there isn't any dirt on him to find. Politicians who operate that way don't last in Vermont beyond one term. The fact that Dean was re-elected 5 times after he initially took office after Snelling's death is proof enough in this state that the man is a great leader and serves the people well.
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-04-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Spoken like a true Vermonter.
Edited on Sat Oct-04-03 08:31 PM by ozone_man
My only disappointment in Dean was his signing of the Hydro Quebec contract (400MW IIRC), which I fought against. But it was us grass roots environmentalists against the utilities, and other New England states and New York. We had a partial victory when NY opted out based on a power glut that developed. VT signed up for 400MW.

Nothing is perfect, but as an environmentalist, I can say that Dean is pretty darn good, but he is a centrist, and so listens to all sides, including the utility view points and consumer view points. To his credit, he installed a very serious energy efficiency progam.
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