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I think the tipping point has been reached.

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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:37 AM
Original message
I think the tipping point has been reached.
You can sense it at parties, on the street, in the stores and in the general mood of th the public. I have heard, "Did you see the profit that Exxon is pulling down?" during discussions of gas prices. I have heard numerous Bush supporters, including a friend I have been unable to budge for years, say they're fed up with the war and the economy and the lies and the scandals. I am hearing much concern that Iran will be next with no one but no one voicing approval. I'm even hearing jokes about the ever-vacationing president.

The tide is turning. You can feel it.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. gas prices and war converge to snap us out of our hypnosis
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bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
61. There should be PROFIT ceilings on oil companies in times like these.
There should also be caps on credit card interest and the cost of all public utilities. But our corporate Congress will never do anything for the people.

TAX CUTS + RECORD PROFITS = demise of the US.
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. Foolish for a number of reasons
First, if you really want people to seriously consider the production of things like biodiesel and other alternative sources of energy, you need to offer the chance of profits. Government capping of profits in an industry is an easy way to kill investment.

Second, American oil companies are bench-warmers when compared to the real players in the oil industry. Cappint profits would have little effect.

Take a look at this list of oil producers:


Rank by 2002 Oil Equivalent Reserves Billion Cubic Feet Total Reserves in Oil Equivalent Barrels, Million Barrels

1 Saudi Arabian Oil Company (Saudi Arabia) 298,819
2 National Iranian Oil Company (Iran) 228,555
3 Gazprom (Russia) 203,419
4 Qatar General Petroleum Corporation (Qatar) 172,231
5 Iraq National Oil Company (Iraq) 131,269
6 Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (UAE)125,721
7 Petroleos de Venezuela.S.A. (Venezuela) 102,537
8 Kuwait Petroleum Corporation (Kuwait) 96,509
9 Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (Nigeria) 45,197
10 National Oil Company (Libya) 37,432
11 Sonatrach (Algeria) 36,499
12 Petroleos Mexicanos (Mexico) 30,237
13 ExxonMobil Corporation (United States) 21,347

ExxonMobil, the biggest American oil company is small potatoes compared to the top 12 state-owned oil producers. Saudi Arabian Oil Company BY ITSELF control about 10 times as much oil as ExxonMobile.

In terms of production, ExxonMobil actually looks better. They appear to be able to produce oil more efficiently than many state run oil companies. But it still amounts to about 2% of world oil production.




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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. Bull.
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Bull, what?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. Price caps RRRAWWK,. End of discussion.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #71
83. Funny. So you are pretending US oil companies are not participating in
the profits of the companies you listed?? Especially Iraqi National Oil??? Get real.

Do you understand the enormous profit margins they are raking in? It's obscene. We are not talking the ability to make a profit...we are talking about criminal behavior.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not to be too pessimistic, but...
Don't get your hopes up. I'm sure that "terrorists" are going to attack again any day now, and it'll be "rally-round-the-Dubya-and-flag" version 2.0

MojoXN
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't know - it's possible
But I don't know why they would not have done it earlier - certainly some of the stuff earlier this year could have been averted. Unless they really love september for some reason.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. It all depends on who "they" are. (NT)
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Indeed...
Ain't it funny how post 9-11 "Islamic" terrorist attacks only happen in Western nations when it's politically expedient for the government at the time?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #22
32. Hey, I noticed that too!
;)
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
55. In a poli sci textbook
Edited on Mon Aug-15-05 03:40 PM by MountainLaurel
I once had, there was an editorial cartoon that linked almost every U.S. military action in recent years to some political crisis for the part in power, e.g., Iran-Contra and Grenada.

Wish I could find the cartoon or the book.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
67. recommend
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Chevron posting largest profits in 2nd. QTR. 60% highest in their
130 years they've been in business.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. All of them are reporting record
profits. It's fucking ridiculous :mad:
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
35. I've always noticed that in September...
people seem to be more receptive to political messages (whether positive or negative)... perhaps because it is after a long holiday, and people are starting back to school or otherwise getting more serious about their work. And there's more eyes on tv... with the new tv season starting.

Oh my gawd, am I getting cynical or what? :)
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. of course you're right, even my mom said it's coming soon
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I think another "terrorist attack" would further undermine
the Bush administration rather than result in another rally round the thief.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You underestimate the stupidity of the American public.
The "liberal" media would go off on the ever popular, "Only a strong, virile, penis-waving macho man like George W. Bush can keep us safe from the evil Ay-rabs and their bombs."

I think that whatever the bastards cook up next is going to make 9-11 look like child's play.

MojoXN
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. No, I don't think so.
I'm pretty confident I know exactly how stupid the American public is. But I also think they have a limit and the neocons have screwed with expectations too much. A "terrorist attack" would backfire against them.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Not if it was N/B/C...
Nuclear, biological, or chemical. That would be pretext enough to declare martial law, and if that happens, do you really think that there are going to be enough pissed off people to march on Washington with weapons and take back the country?

MojoXN
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. And let us recall the DOD drawing up plans for Martial Law contingency
THAT is not a good sign. They do not have to worry about what we think if they lock the nation down, and I have no illusions about their sense of decorum.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
33. But, You're Forgetting Part Of The Silverspoon's Mantra
They keep telling everyone they're making us safer. Another attack completely eliminates that theme. They lose ALL support after that, and i don't think the military would obey the commands to engage martial law.

Lots of VERY fed up military people as well. (Including officers.)
The Professor
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
68. I agree with you...I think it would backfire too.
And furthermore, it would make even diehard skeptics take another long, hard look at 9/11. I think it would backfire big time.
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tmooses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. No matter how easily swayed you believe the American public is, I do
believe that once they feel they've been deceived or lied to by their leaders, the backlash will be significant not only against Bush by the Repub as a whole. Whether the public reaches that point is another story. I've seen too much mindless flag-waving and been called unpatriotic/anti-troop so much in the last 3 years to be too hopeful about an enlightened public especially with a media afraid to speak out.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Point taken, but...
When you have assholes who will chant "We Don't Care!" in response to being told that Bushco lied, what do you expect? And as for the media, they aren't afraid to speak out, they're just obsessed with the almighty dollar. By supporting Bush, they increase their profit margin, not to mention that the higher ups are usually Republicans.

MojoXN
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. I dont think
that too many rational people will put their faith in the * administration's ability to keep us safe, ESPECIALLY if something big were to happen again.

That would be a big miscalculation IMO. Their credibility is too far eroded. Wouldnt get the results they wanted.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
36. Well, I plan to openly oppose the Pres and call for his...
resignation if another 9/11 occurs. I won't care about my own life at that point. The nation will matter far more.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. me too,,, bin Forgotten hits us again
all people will think about is Why Didn't Bush Get Him Already... just IMHO.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. People will believe whatever they are told to believe...
By the MSM. They'd spin it thus: We've gotta get Bin Laden before he hits us again, and the only person who can do that is Dubya! Democrats are too "Soft-on-terror" to do it, and that just leaves Prex-for-life Dubya!

MojoXN
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. I agree but the agenda is different this time
Edited on Mon Aug-15-05 10:47 AM by Horse with no Name
911 was designed to rally around the President.
It allowed him to further his agenda to go to Iraq.
Now, he doesn't need anyone to rally around. Most of the world knows him for who he is...it is only (some) of the American people that still believe that he is an honorable man.
The next 911-type activity will be used for one purpose and one purpose only. To declare martial law so that the mission will be accomplished and the coup will be complete. When it is over, there will not be a country known as the United States anymore. At least not one we will recognize.
I think that men in power (military and CIA) are aware of what is going on and hopefully they will try to stop it. God (if you believe in him) help us all if they can't.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. I think you're right on this.
If there is an attack at home, the arguments that Iraq is a distraction gain traction, regardless of whether or not the timing looks suspicious.

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. won't matter
big 'terrorist' attack, nuclear weapons used, marshal law, roundup of lefties....* appointed dictator, major threats to the rest of the world and its over game set and match
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Every drop in poll numbers makes me cringe as that time gets closer
with those drops. The traitors and criminals are in WAY to deep to ever allow themselves to be out of power. Think Jimmy Cagney type gangester characters: You'll never take me alive, Copper!. Only the junta spends the lives of others and doesn't have any qualms about doing so.

Am very concerned about what happens this Wednesday.
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Why Wednesday?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. the gaza strip pullout
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. And an 'attack drill' at the base formerly under the command of the Gen.
who was relieved of command last week... and there was a thread over the weekend about some 'ceremony' involving all living former directors of the CIA being held that day.

Triple threat... is that like a trifecta?
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. Oh, YEAH, now I remember...
Just like the terrorists-are-hijacking-airliners drill on 9-11 or the terrorists-are-attacking-the-tube on 7-7, there's going to be a terrorists-are-nuking-a-city drill in Charlotte, NC on Wednesday. So, if anything happens in Charlotte, it'll be Dubya killing a few more Americans to keep himself in power.

MojoXN
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. Should we notify our loved ones in Charlotte?...
Edited on Mon Aug-15-05 11:53 AM by stevietheman
is there enough hard evidence (e.g., links) we can pull together so that people will want to evacuate Charlotte?
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I thought the drill was near Charleston SC not Charlotte NC ?
Edited on Mon Aug-15-05 11:59 AM by Ouabache
but I could be wrong. They are not that far from each other.
Morbid question.

What are the prevailing wind directions in the Carolinas this week?


edit:spellings
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pola Donating Member (272 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
39. TIME IS RUNNING OUT - Prevent a nuke on our soil ! HOW ?

STARTING TOMORROW, MONDAY, - PLEASE DON'T WAIT !!
CALL the media (T.V. RADIO, NEWSPAPERS) AND MOST OF ALL, CALL THE CONGRESS - JAM THE PHONE LINES, and say you hope these stories circulating about why General Byrnes was really fired, and the Aug. 17, Aug. 22, etc. nuke 'drills' are not true, but that the American people will NOT BE FOOLED AGAIN - like we were on 9/11.
TELL THEM THAT WE WILL KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT, THAT IF WE ARE NUKED HERE ON OUR SOIL, THAT IT WILL BE A GOVERNMENT INSIDE JOB, JUST LIKE 9/11 WAS !! This is the ONLY way they can pull off bombing Iran, and starting a NEW WAR without Congressional approval..

THe stage is being set for this to happen. G.W.'s words reveal his intentions .
For God's sake, let's DO SOMETHING THIS WEEK TO RAISE AWARENESS !
Any other ideas ?


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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. We need to compile all evidence for this in one spot.
If we want this theory to be easily explainable by those who would contact the media, we need to have all the backup material.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
58. Quite frankly...This is a bit much
Nuking South Carolina? I highly doubt it--Why would bushco nuke a red state?
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yasmina27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. very logical....
Because nobody would believe that * was responsible.

A kind of reverse psychology. Just like the "message" from Osama right before the election that any states that voted for Bush would be targets.

This would actually play right into their hands. After all, how many reports have said that Osama Bin Hiden on the Iranian border??

All they would have to do is claim that OBL was in Iran, was responsible for the "attack", then - BOOM!

Shit! :wtf:
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
77. I don't know/I am a MIHOPer but even I can't easily embrace this
Hopefully I'm right!

But to clarify I am certainly not saying anyone with a differing opinion from mine on this topic is nuts--NOTHING would shock me about this group of murdering thieves at this point.
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nookiemonster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. Sad, but oh so true.
"Hey Fitz, where are those indictments??"

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
44. Could be, but maybe this time folks will step back and say
"Hey, wait a minute, Chicken Little pulled this "sky is falling" shit on us before!!!!"

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

(What was it chimp said? Won't git fooled agin???)
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. N.O. The sheeple are too stupid to make intelligent decisions.
2004 should have been a calkwalk for the dems, but the sheeple would have nothing of it - too many of them made it possible to be stolen - again, if not outright elected that time.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Who knows how much cheating went on???
We don't really know....and the turnout was huge (for America, anyway). Half of the assholes in the country do not vote, anyway--they are stupid. But the ones that do are motivated. And I do think that Ohio was stolen, and that vote shaving went on all over the country. The challenge is to find someone who can grab the media by the balls, spell it out, and prove it so that people will understand what happened.

I have hope that we will take our country back. I will stick it out at least through 08...and I will keep trying. If we can get even one branch back in 06, there is hope for the future. And if we can take the executive, then we have a chance of cleaning up the shitstorm chimpy created with his megalomaniacal, grandiose visions.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. I was at a friend's house yesterday
and one of our friends has identified as a Republican (though I suspect that's due more to his family than his own beliefs) was agreeing with and going along with the Bush-bashing we do on a regular basis (everyone else in the group is either a Dem or unaffiliated but progressive)

It was good to hear :D
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Coloradan4Truth Donating Member (360 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. It seems like people are starting to understand
that the republican party really isn't working for them. However, I read an article this weekend that claimed that the disenchanted aren't necessarily turning to the Democrats because of their lack of a clear message! Yikes, 2006 isn't that far off!

I also see this sentiment echoed all the time here on DU. What are we to do. Come on Dean!
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tmooses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Hasn't the Repub message been that they are not the Dems after they
have created a false image of the Dems in the public eye? I think the repubs are creating an image of themselves as ruthless,deceptive and only out for the highest bidder. We need to present out image against the background of what the Repubs have become and define ourselves that way. We must be the party of those who recognize the importance of fairness and accountability.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. Too late.
bush** supporters are the cause of this mess. It's probably already to late for their buyer's remorse.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
47. Better late than never. Hopefully, the message will sink in. nt
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. Fear is the answer
Ramp up fear, bomb Iran, and Americans will once again fall into line behind Bush.

What's truly depressing is how easy it would be for the GOP to do this just in time for the 2006 elections.

- B
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Fear? the only way to control the masses...
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. No, just the most effective way.
I'm MojoXN, and I approve this message.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #25
45. Fear has a tipping point, too
When people become hypervigilant, they either shut down, curl up and die, or just lose the fear totally and fight like they have nothing to lose. That fear crap can backfire if chimpy tries to overdose us on it. And if the tone-deaf way he's been conducting his affairs is any indication, he could be in for a massive case of misunderestimation of what he likes to think of as his "subjects."

Serfs will rise up!!!
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Interesting comment
Causes me to reflect that Bush has eased off on the fear pedal since the election, and people are now probably a bit more relaxed. This would allow him to ramp up the fear machine nicely just in time for the 2006 elections, without putting people past the tipping point.

Just a thought.

- B
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I dunno
He didn't count on Madrid or London, I don't think, which were kinda like a car backfiring when you are freaked out about gunfire. And sometimes, if you give people time to gather themselves, then the anger/violence/lashing out and general assholiness of PTSD sets in with a vengeance, once people are confronted anew with old horror.

That, of course, could be wishful thinking on my part, but I hope Americans are made of sterner stuff, and will at last wake up and tell that rocking chair cowboy to rock his sorry ass back to Waco...or Kennebunkport (if they'll have him).
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. I agree/ a beaten down middle class and all this fear mongering and BS
Might not create the reaction bush has in mind.

The people I talk to are just FED UP and I don't know if they are Repukes Dems or what but they are pissed off.



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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
29. You have time for parties?
You lucky thing.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. LOL.
Kids birthday parties. But I was just at one yesterday and there was universal agreement that things are not good right now.

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
37. When you hear Exxon profited 7.8 billion dollars
and we are paying out the ying-yang for a gallon of gas. It will make you mad. Now think about all the bonuses they get from the government and the tax exemptions they receive as well.. It is so totally unfair. Why are there no regulations? 7.8 billion dollars profit in three months? Damn, that's rididculous...
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
38.  I mentioned this to a friend that works for one of the BIG oil companies
that with oil prices so high, the oil companies have reaped the biggest profits in their history. She responded that (like I was supposed to believe this) oil companies have huge outlays of cash before seeing any return on their investments in future oil drilling. So the profits they are seeing now, are late returns on major investments they made a long time ago, and more than justified.

Before you ask, yes, she is a Repub. We generally don't discuss politics because its just too sticky with us. Meanwhile, I can't afford to fill up my car completely anymore, just a couple of gallons here and there to get me to my next destination. She drives both a Ford Expedition (huge SUV) and a Jaguar XJL.

She has 6 weeks of vacation a year (gee, is that more or less than Shrub?), huge bonus each year, the best health insurance a company could offer, already has a 6-figure salary offer for her next job, when she leaves this one, fully vested. Life's great if you work for an oil company.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. Interesting. They have adopted the drug company argument. nt
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. And let's not forget, they wrote all those expenses off their income
before they signed their tax forms ;)
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. do you mean the oil companies?
I am not an accountant, or tax-savvy, by any stretch of the imagination. Are the oil companies able to count these expenses off of their tax bills as losses? So that then, later when a well pays off big, or like now, their profits are drastically increased, they can reap the benefit of that as well?

If this is true, as I suspect it is, I am aghast.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Yes. But they do have to pay taxes on that profit. Hence, the massive
tax breaks for them that were slipped into the energy bill. See how it works? Give a little money to Republicans to help them gain power and get a whole lot back in targeted tax cuts (read: our money).

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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. this friend even made a comment about the tax breaks given them
in the energy bill.. She said her company didn't really need them, but certainly weren't going to look a gift horse in the mouth! utterly dispicable.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. Yeah. Like they never requested them.... lol. nt
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. Would think ANY cost of doing business would be deducted from gross
income, for most big businesses. They pay less and less of the total taxes while more falls on the shoulders of middle class and workers.

There was a story months ago about huge corporations that paid zilch AND got $$ back. Anybody have that bookmarked?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
49. You can definietly feel it
It's a lot different then before when people said it. The tied was turning but now there's a different sense and everything.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. I can feel it! Smell it in the wind!
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
56. Yawn. Heard it all before, I'm afraid.
I'll believe it when I see it.

Right now the smart money is on further gains by the Repukes in 06 followed by another repuke in OUR White House in 08, if dumbya doesn't find a way to cancel elections altogether.

I'll wait for proof the day after the elections before believing "this is it" ever again.

Sorry to burst your bubble.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. Wow, you are a real bucket of
...cheer, aren't ya???

I sense a sea change, and I don't think it is going to subside. People are waking up, and the only thing that will distract them at this point is lower gas prices and a decrease in fatalities in the sandbox and Afghanistan...and those greedy pigs are not gonna make that happen! Blood for oil, and when you get the oil, keep the profits at the max.

I continue to hope, and fight, and work for change--we gotta. It's either that or leave, or curl up and die. Not quite yet....
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. The problem is, it's late. Shrubco has too much power to itself including
possibly the voting mechanism now. I believe there IS a sea change as far as the public. Might not be enough to extricate ourselves from shrubco now though...
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. I know what you're talking about, but it wasn't like it is today.
This is different, from discussions on the streets to poll numbers to investigations into the corruption.
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jarnocan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
72. true but...
On OLS there are many people jumping into the political forums that haven't been there befroe- upset about gas and the war.
However it is almost funny a big discussion ensued about how there are no anti-war protest any more. So I added some links and nicely mentioned that there have been some (NY MARCH 19 and May 1 st etc. Social Security bogus townhall ones. too-became somewhat anti-war) but that our mainstream media doesn not cover them much and down plays the numbers. They are covering Cindy in Crawford somewhat more.


The negative is that those on the FAR right- are reacting more and more like real vehement hate groups -someone posted the most sickening cartoons and such laughing over our dead soldiers and grieving mom's because they care emough to not want more to die.

I also am worried about those desperate evil men -what they may do next to distract and dodge possible consequences for their many misdeeds.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
73. They're fed up with the scandals? What? Not enough sex in them?
We all know how ReThugs love to hate based ona little sex between consenting adults. Amazing that these disgruntled rethugs are paying attention with no sex involved.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #73
80. This is the great irony of it all. The most absurd double-standard ever.nt
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
76. Did you tell them
They must bow down to our corporate masters like Exxon and pay whatever they charge us. If we complain we are a bunch of pinko communists. They have a right to take in as much money as they can and cheat on their taxes as much as possible because they have earned it and all us little people are just lazy, want to live homeless, rely on government handouts and smoke lots of weed.
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