Possible PROBLEM with the CAFTA vote!

[napi21]

I just heard this on Tom Hartman's show.

There were TWO representatives who didn't vote on the CAFTA bill last night. One was Taylor of NC. Some constituents called his office this morning and his office said HE VOTED NO!

The story is something must have gone wrong and didn't record his vote!

Tom said keep your eyes on this, it could expose a real problem!

[libertypirate]

1. They have changed peoples words on the record...

I wouldn't put this past them....

[damntexdem]

5. Let's hope.

Now, who were the Dems who voted for CAFTA? I want them for my list of shame.

[shireen]

27. here they are ... the 15 Dems from hell , 2 from NY (wtf???!)

Melissa Bean Illinois-8th
Jim Cooper Tennessee-5th
Henry Cuellar Texas-28th
Norman D. Dicks Washington-6th
Ruben Hinojosa Texas-15th
William J. Jefferson Louisiana-2nd
Jim Matheson Utah-2nd
Gregory W. Meeks New York-6th
Dennis Moore Kansas-3rd
James P. Moran Virginia-8th
Solomon Ortiz Texas-27th
Ike Skelton Missouri-4th
Vic Snyder Arkansas-2nd
John S. Tanner Tennessee-8th
Edolphus Towns New York-10th

[napi21]

6. I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but, do we now have to have

someone monitor the actual votes in the House now to make sure they are recorded right?

I hope everyone in Taylor's district calls his office to confirm if he voted and what his vote was. If he confirms that he voted NO, force HIM to go and fight with Hastert! This could overturn the CAFTA VOTE!!!!

[electron_blue]

53. you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to

insist that someone do that. In fact, I assumed it was automatically monitored by outside sources (like, uh, the media, never mind). silly me.

[FreedomAngel82]

55. I hope!!

[merh]

2. Thanks for the heads up.

Now why would the voting in congress have glitches? Or rather, who would think that the recording of the votes would have problems. :shrug:

I mean, we all know that voting works in the USofA and anyone that thinks otherwise wears a :tinfoilhat:

:sarcasm:

[Richard Steele]

3. Just a "mistake", move along, nothing to see here....n/m

[redqueen]

4. Oh if only there were one more like him.

I hope I hope I hope...

[Cocoa]

7. and no one noticed?

does that seem plausible to you?

[meganmonkey]

8. Lots of people noticed - the ending of the vote was really weird

I only had audio, but on the 'official' CAFTA thread people mentioned that things got kinda sketchy at the very end and he pretty much banged the gavel interrupting things, On top of that, the time for the vote had run out much earlier (when the Nays were ahead).

I'm not saying anything will come of it, maybe so, maybe not.

But the Repub's power by force crap is getting really stale.

[libertypirate]

21. Is there a minute by minute timeline of this....

[meganmonkey]

44. Here are links to the live threads and some other stuff...:

THREAD #1: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1962883

THREAD #2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1963154

THREAD #3: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1963438

THREAD #4: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1963761#1963912

The vote started in Thread #3, there are a couple references to the weirdness in thread #4, but there were several other threads started right at the end with interesting comments:

Rep. Barney Frank lets them have it on strongarm tactics on CAFTA

"Well what we should have done... and I propose this for the future...the next time you have one of those tough votes where you're gonna have to do that with your (GOP) members...let's schedule an evacuation drill from the House..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1964750

[IndyOp]

42. Wow - so this is what the finger is about -

* stole the CAFTA vote and is proud.

:grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke:

[jean]

58. why can't we press the issue of the time for the vote running out and

DeLay cheats and ignores the rules? Sure, I know the answer is that it's some repub controlled committee who would rule on the issue and DeLay would just pound them all to pud.

[napi21]

9. I don't know. Why is Taylor's office insisting he voted NO?

I don't know what the people on the floor actually see and hear. We're talking about 400+ votes here, and I'm not convinced that some of those wouldn't be noticed in the middle of chaos.

I at least think it's worth persuing with Taylor and his office. SOMEBODY is LYING here! Either his office is lying, or the recorded votes in the House are wrong.

[Cocoa]

11. I just called his office and confirmed

I was skeptical, but it was just as you posted.

Taylor, a republican, had taken a strong anti-Cafta position, was not an undecided before the vote. He has contacted the clerk, and the clerk agrees that he did vote no.

So the actual roll call is different from what all news sources are publishing.

Thanks for posting this, you scooped everyone. How did you hear about it?

[napi21]

15. Heard it on Tom Hartmen's radio show about 1/2 hour ago.

Tom usually doesn't relay any BS, and he repeated this several times! Several of Taylor's constituents have called his office a got the same story!

As I said, I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I really don't trust ANYTHING these Pubs do anymore! I can see they might not get away with this in the Senate because they're only dealing with 100 people, but with 400+ in the House, I'm not at all surprised that somebody didn't try something this stupid!

[charlie]

16. Odd that he would abstain

He was reportedly planning to vote against:

But five of the seven GOP congressmen say they plan to vote against CAFTA: Jones, McHenry, Virginia Foxx of Banner Elk, Charles Taylor of Brevard and Robin Hayes of Concord.

http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2625515p-9061997c.html

Fear of Bush reprisal gave him cold feet?

[On the Road]

26. If He Were Recorded as Abstaining,

that would still give CAFTA a one-vote margin, no? Even if the vote were changed?

I believe one "yes" vote or two "abstain" votes would have to become "no" votes to force a tie.

[Rose Siding]

31. That's what I was thinking

The only way it would help is if a "yes" vote had been recorded as a "no". Then there's a tie.

[KoKo]

51. Charles Taylor is so disliked in NC...but the rest of his buddies voted No

When I first read this post I figured Taylor had abstained or that his office lied...but now I don't know...:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

65. Well they learned in FLA in 2000 and in OH in 2004 that .................

stealing votes and cheating in elections is feasible. So it was a cakewalk to steal a vote in Congress: just write down whatever votes get your desired results; don't pay any attention to how our representatives actually voted.

How about Congressional exit polls from now on??

[Tommymac]

10. Do they use Diebold Tabulators

in the House too?

[Alizaryn]

68. LOL

:D

[kansasblue]

12. the leadership should have known who voted yes/no

they should have seen any questionable voting.

[phusion]

13. This is crazy...

Are they rigging votes in the House now?

Recommending thread.

[bunny planet]

37. Why not, they rig votes everywhere else.

Randi Rhodes played audio of a voice vote the other day in the house, it was clear that the nays (or yeas, can't remember which in this case) were much louder and more numerous than the other vote but the vote was called for the minority. Very suspicious, anyone hearing it would have been able to discern that the Republicans cheated. I'm sure this goes on all the time, especially when the ethically challenged Tom Delay is involved.

[nicknameless]

66. Unbelievable, aren't they? Here's a link to the audio of that vote on

CrooksAndLiars.com
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/06/24.html

It's titled: "Meet Congressman Adam Putnam Sensenbrenner"

Florida Congressman Adam Putnam's misreprsentation of a voice vote during the hearings of United Airline's default on their pensioners, thus leaving the American tax-payers to (foot) the bill.

Listen carefully to all the YES votes sounded of opposed to what seems to be only one lonely NO vote. Putnam then sides with the NO vote in favor of sticking it to the tax-payers! Huh? What?!!!
Same shit different day.

One of Randi's callers said that Adam Putnam is related to Kathrine Harris (aka Cruella da Ville of Florida). I think the caller said they were cousins ... I can't remember.
What a surprise! :eyes:

[Arugula Latte]

40. They'll even rig Republican votes if it suits their purposes

which this obviously did.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. Is Diebold now recording House votes?

[napi21]

18. NO. It's WORSE than Diebold! They're tabulated by

Hastert and DeLay!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. Lol!!!!

[yardwork]

46. That's the SAME as Diebold!

[Kevin Spidel]

17. this happened to conyers on the war supplemental vote...

he voted FOR funding we were shocked. he told us it was a recorded error... the staff fixed it. they told us it a common issue in the house.

[napi21]

20. If this is a common thing in the House, and the coutcome could

change because of an error, THEY BETTER LOOK INTO THIS ONE AND FIX IT!!!!

[Cocoa]

24. I asked the staffer if this was unusual

he said yeah.

[libertypirate]

22. Is there a timeline of what happened so we can examine and

express the series of events...

[progressoid]

19. Relax people - the exit polls matched the results so...

:hide:

[phusion]

23. This would tie the vote...

at 216-216. What would happen then?

Does anyone know if the same "error" occured with Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis (R-VA)? She is the other "no-vote" on this issue...Maybe a constituent can contact her office?

[Cocoa]

28. actually it will be 217-216-1

from the current 217-215-2

[phusion]

32. er, you're right...

Thanks.

[Sapphire Blue]

43. And the Chair exercised his option to slam down the gavel & call the vote

... passed w/2 reps not yet voting. :puke: Could they have both been leaning 'Nay'?

[On the Road]

54. Is That Really His Right?

You mean he could get enough votes for a lead and then stop the voting?

[Sapphire Blue]

56. I think it was a 15-minute vote. It was stated on C-SPAN that the Chair

had the right to call the vote at any time after the 15 minutes.

After an hour or so of voting, with 217 yeas, 215 nays, and 2 nv, the Chair slammed down the gavel, calling it passed.

HEIL!


(Edited for correct numbers)

[sunnystarr]

50. However, is that a majority?

217/424 = 51.1
216/424 = 51.0

For some reason I thought it had to have a 1% spread to pass. Sounds good to me anyway lol.

[Ian_rd]

25. Actually ...

Actually, I think the problem with CAFTA may be that it will further NAFTA's record of removing manufacturing jobs from countries with decent labor and environmental regulations to countries where workers can be treated like dirt and the environment can be poisoned without consequence, and forcing countries to compete for investment from our Beloved Corporate Masters by lowering wages as much as possible in order to fatten their profit and executive pay.

But I could be wrong.

[DURHAM D]

29. I used to work in the Senate of a southwestern state. It was

common in the House for members to cast votes for each other when they were not on the floor. It was not unheard of for someone to walk over to a member's desk and switch the vote of a legislator after it was cast and he/she had left the floor.

I had the impression last night while watching the end of this vote that the presiding officer knew that the magic number was about to hit and already had the gavel in the air to pound the desk the moment it hit 217 so that no one could change their vote, or check their vote, question who actually cast a members vote, etc.

[napi21]

33. Thanks for depressing me even more than I was!

I already knew little if anything is honest in politics, but I didn't realize some scammer could actually change someone elses vote!

SHIT! I can't trust my local voting machines, now, I can't even trust the votes of the people who got elected???

AARRRUUUGGGHHH

[wli]

34. brilliant, now the fraud is happening on the House floor

What the Hell are they using, Diebold?

[proud patriot]

35. I noticed it took forever to count the votes last night

near an hour . seemed odd to me at the time .

[fooj]

36. Didn't we just hear them changing a verbal vote a few months ago?

Peace.

[napi21]

39. This wasn't a verbal vote though. Read the rest of the posts here.

Apparently there are lots of things that can go wrong with the House vote. It's just rarely close enough to make a difference!

[Theres-a]

38. Kick

[Coexist]

41. what exactly, can be done at this point? Email the media

can the vote be changed?

[yardwork]

45. Oops. I hope this exposes the Republican's vote-stealing

CAFTA is hugely unpopular in NC.

[earth mom]

47. Does anyone know if they will "officially" recount the votes

or will they just get away with it as usual? :grr:

[meganmonkey]

48. They'll count 3% (randomly selected, of course, wink wink)

And tell them the answer so they don't really have to count them (nudge nudge) and everything will be just fine :puke:

[earth mom]

61. Thanks for the reply...sigh...

why did I hope just a little for anything more? :sarcasm:

[sunnystarr]

49. Do you know who was the other R without a recorded vote?

Did anyone call his office?

[electron_blue]

52. they'll just diebold-it

i betcha

[KoKo]

57. napi21, as of 11:57 pm last night Taylor had not cast a vote.

I went back through the timeline of last night from the DU thread on the vote and C-Span had announced his name as being one of several who hadn't cast a vote yet. But the gavel came down and they announced the vote maybe before the last ones voted? Might be worth a look at the timeline. What if some voted no, but they pulled a fast one and brought down the gavel before those "no" votes were recorded?

Anyway....the Timeline is interesting for the last votes as it's minute by minute coverage here on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1963761&mesg_id=1963816

[leftofthedial]

59. public votes don't count

and now congressional votes don't either?

[mikelgb]

60. THEY RIGGED IT!!!

I was watching the house the other day and they had a differnt counter than normal. And the announcer came in during votes to let viewers know that the normal vote recording system was "broken" and this temporary system was put in place for the time being.... this is when CAFTA "passed"

[bj2110]

62. That doesn't make any sense. You were watching it the other day, and

that's when CAFTA passed? You're joking, right?

[mikelgb]

64. i was not clear

i meant their means for rigging the cafta vote were conspicuously put in place days before

[milkyway]

63. Voting glitches ALWAYS bear to the right.

What a surprise. Another close vote that could go either way, and some mysterious glitches show up favoring the repugs yet again.

[Greeby]

67. Grrr

I wouldn't be suprised if Hastert and Delay employed some dirty tricks on the CAFTA vote. I mean, the Bugman slipped a $1.5 billion boondoggle to his corporate friends into the energy bill, after it had been closed to further amendment

[Stirk]

69. How hard could it be to retabulate?

Surely each member's vote is recorded in some other way as well. Right?