Why are lefties suddenly squabbling over Jane Fonda?

[BurtWorm]

Why are lefties squabbling, in other words, over a phony issue manufactured by right-wingers?

[sui generis]

1. we are not squabbling!

are so
are not
are too
huh uh!!!!!

:evilgrin:

[MissB]

4. I disagree!

Wait....:crazy:

[mtnester]

2. Democrats don't hush their women" as pointed out by a caller to Springer

on this topic....

I agree with the caller.

(On edit - although some of them right now seem to think it will be OK to give away some of our rights.....may as well continue pointing out the DLC agenda wherever I can. Flame away if you like, it won't be the last time today and I am wearing my rhinoceros skin as well)

[Deja Q]

11. She ain't my woman. She's her own woman. Nobody has her, she is not owned.

She can make whatever noise she wants. It's nobody's business to tell or force her to do anything. (your caller's wording is very interesting... if not 1950s-centric...)

I won't tell her to hush, but I sure as hell will vocalize my opposition of her.

[mtnester]

28. You exactly have that right

just as she does...no finger pointing by me, you and I see eye to eye on individual's rights to speak their minds.

I took it to mean the caller was referring to the way the Repubs "handle" their women folk (no offense to womenfolk, being as I am part of that group)

I know we don't do that, but I have sure seen some quite a few folks here in the past day or two trying (not referring to yourself)

[SteppingRazor]

3. Just becasue she's back in the news. No other reason. n/t

[Jack from Charlotte]

36. She'll always be Barbarella to me.*

[CityZen-X]

5. Another WMD

Weapon of Mass Distraction!

[Jacobin]

6. The momentum to end this travesty of an invasion

has not gotten to the point where all anti-war factions unite for the common cause of ending the conflagration.

It took almost a decade for that to happen during the last imperialistic misadventure.

I predict that after faux troop 'withdrawals' before the 2006 elections and the subsequent troop increases, and when American deaths reach 5,000 or so, we will either welcome ALL parties of whatever stripe in aid of ending this clusterfuck to the cause, or it will be a permanent Gaza Strip situation....particularly with the PNACization of the DLC.

[bostonbabs]

16. I am sorry but

Jane Fonda had herself photographed with the ENEMY.We have images in our heads and hearts of her laughing so prettily with the enemy.The photo has appeared more and more lately.Who do you suppose is parading that picture?
Jane has said that she is ashamed of it and has apologized.Thank you Jane.
Many Vietnam Veterans will not forgive her and why should they?ANY Vietnam Veteran can say what he pleases.....he fought for everyones right to do so no less so for himself!
I believe that if she were truly sorry for her actions she would "bow out".For the memory of those that died and for the tortured memories of those that lived and DO despise her.
Iraq War Hawks could not ask for a better "poster-has-been" than Jane Fonda.
She is a megalomaniac.With all her money she could be doing much much more than parading a name that she herself tainted.
BOW OUT......

[asjr]

17. Jane Fonda did not take us to war in Vietnam.

[manic expression]

19. No Vietnam vet fought for free speech

Sorry to bust your little dream, but that's the reality. Look up on what Diem and later South Vietnamese Governments did. Look up on what the US government did (SDS, Kent State). Free speech was never being fought for in Vietnam, nor so in almost any other conflict.

She was photographed with the "enemy"? Who made them our "enemy"? The US Government did, for no reason, and it cost 50,000+ Americans their lives. She has no need to apologize for opposing such a sick cause, and her picture on an AA Gun really doesn't change my opinion. Why should it?

She risked her career to speak out against what was wrong, and you dare call her greedy? Please.

[RedCloud]

24. Many whacked off thinking about Barbarella!

Therein lies the crux of their contradiction!

Jane Fonda also made a movie in which a Viet Nam vet returns, can't remember the rest of the shit, but that right there should have ended the critique. But the fundies need to be exposed for being holier than thou. If they cannot forgive her, does that make them better than God?

And if Jane was a traitor what about Standard Oil and its sacred deal with the Nazis? Why do they get a free pass with the veterans.

Last time I checked Nazis killed our troops. Jane only gave them an erection!

[bostonbabs]

30. Please

I never used the word greedy.Risked her career...you can sell that down the road. I work with Vietnam Vets who do not like her and it is for them that I say she should bow out... respect them if she is truly sorry.SHE felt that she should apologize but you don't? And soldiers who went to Vietnam were defending our constitutional rights...we were fighting the spread of communism remember...cold war....hocus pocus.The last time I looked that included free speech.Do you really think that the politics of the war were known to 19 and 20 year olds as the signed up or got yanked from school?Iraq Hawks will make minced meat out of her and in so doing will not be good for the cause...in case you haven't noticed ...people don't like her.She is not a good person to be out front on this issue. Why is she doing this?Has she advanced any good cause in the last 30 years of her ultra privileged life?.(oops forgot those flat tummies).Once a diva always a diva.

[noiretextatique]

34. give it up...that war, like this one

had nothing to do with "our constitutional rights" and the vietnam vets i know would be the first ones to say that. and yes, young men and women were duped then, as they were duped this time about iraq.
those same "people" who don't like her also don't like:
bill clinton, al gore and john kerry, or liberals and democrats, in general.
you should really do some research on fonda...before you malign her. from what i've read, she been very generous in sharing her wealth.

[BikeWriter]

44. You are generalizing. I hate her for embracing the enemy...

and saying our POWs were being treated humanely. She enabled and abetted their torture in doing so. When they came home and collaborated each other's stories she called them liars and hypocrites. She apologised years later only because we were interfering with the shooting of one of her movies. Fuck her and the bus she rode in on.

[noiretextatique]

50. ok

hate away. i'm certain she won't lose any sleep over it. and no vietnamese person was ever MY enemy, just as no iraqi person is MY enemy. it's unfortunate that americans still haven't learned that people aren't just going to let them take their country from them without fighting back.

[BikeWriter]

52. The North VietNamese were shooting at me, my fellow troops...

and my South VietNamese friends. That made them my enemy. The VC in country were comparable to most of the Iraqi "insurgents." Believe me, anyone shooting at you becomes the enemy. jane fonda gave aid and comfort to them, her fellow communists.

[noiretextatique]

56. i understand your feelings

however, people aren't just going to allow YOU to shoot them either, especially if they believe you are an invader. what would suggest iraqis do? allow themselves to be killed so halliburton and becthel can make a ton of money? i mean really...

[BikeWriter]

57. The only reason I mentioned Iraq was comparing the wars.

It does not apply to jane. There was an elected government in Saigon being attacked by her North VietNamese friends.

[meganmonkey]

20. She has grown up, admitted her mistakes, and is doing it differently this

time.

What's the big deal?

The 'Iraq War Hawks' you refer to will slam the peace movement no matter who the representatives are. I say screw 'em.

If Jane can help mobilize people, more power to her.

[Dogmudgeon]

26. Remember Richard Nixon? Lyndon Johnson?

Jane did some stupid stuff. Nixon and Johnson carefully built a high-profit war that crippled America's economy for a decade, killed 50,000 of its troops, and killed another two million indochinese, most of whom were non-combatants.

How is it that Jane Fonda is the only one people are angry with?

--p!

[bostonbabs]

31. Kissinger

...Remember they tried to make Kissinger head of the 9/11 investigation and people... me and many others went crazy because we hate what he did during Vietnam and will not forget.He was appointed and un appointed very quickly.There was an uproar!.She is not the only person that some dislike.I hate Kissinger.I feel badly for Jane.

[Dogmudgeon]

40. OMFG!

I can't believe I forgot Henry Kissinger.

Jane Fonda would have a difficult time indeed matching Kissinger for spilled blood.

--p!

[Booster]

41. At least she went to Viet Nam, unlike our chickenshit pResident.

[Kurovski]

53. Rumsfeld was photographed with Hussein.

Cheney illegally did business with him. Let's talk about that.

Fonda has apologized, it was foolish.

The Neo-Cons will never apologize for their well planned "foolishness". And the Neo-cons were/are much older than Fonda was when she made her mistake.

Frickin' move on to something that matters NOW, fer cry-eye.

Quit nursing pain that's done, be a man, or woman. Please grow a little larger within yourself about the issue.

Absolutely horrible things are happening NOW. Thousands are dying. And thousands are on their way out, none of us is safe from the foolishness of this administration.

It is no mistake that the crackpot right keeps throwing this up in our faces, they've done damage a million-fold with their foolishness.

[madaboutharry]

7. Because we suffer from

"What will they think about us" syndrome. The left needs to stop worrying about what republicans say about us.

[kansasblue]

8. she's going on a US tour to oppose the war!

[Deja Q]

9. She is a self-serving sycophant. And recently she did something incredible

She praised Pickles and thought * would be a great guy if she spoke with him. :wtf:

If she has a point she should also realize that * of all people surely would not give her the very time of day. NOBODY on the repuke side likes her, especially since narking on our troops in Vietnam which in turn put out troops into a very nasty position. The war was wrong, yes. Her direct actions were just as despicable.

Personally, she seems to be a pot-stirring attention whore. Her Vietnam stunt must be the highlight of her career but the pro-* flip-flopping from a couple months ago is also a shock stunt.

She's also an actress. Never forget that. Any actress getting into politics is there for the attention and ego masturbation. Nothing more. The same can be said for ALL the others: Ventura, schwazenegger, reagan, and the rest. Self-serving sycophants. Nothing more.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. You forgot something

She's very pro-Linux.

--p!

[Deja Q]

14. Okay, then I will choose to nitpick:

I dislike her narking in the Vietnam war that got our troops needlessly further tortured.

I dislike her turnabout pro-* attitude from a few months back.

Thespianism and politics do not go hand in hand and she ranks p there with reagan, schwarzenegger, ventura, and the others.

And she loves Linux. Great. Does she love the concept behind it (which is socialism-centric) or how big corporations have taken Linux, repackaged it, and sell it for humongous amounts of money (thereby stealing from all the people volunteering to write the code in the first place)? I'm sure other people who dislike or outright hate her will do a 180 just because of that alone.

[hfojvt]

25. Ventura was an athlete not a thespian

and scyophants? Who was Fonda being a sycophant for? LBJ? SDS? And who would she be doing it for now? BFEE? Move-on?

Egomaniacs probably, but sycophant does not seem like the right word.

[ArkDem]

49. Her tour is also going to bring about an uncountable number

of needless vegetable deaths, as well.

[goclark]

27. A she just wrote a book that needs some buyers

Don't get me wrong, this war needs to end , but...

[xxqqqzme]

12. distraction, distraction, distraction...

Like Barbra, Jane is always good 4 riling up the neoconpoops.

[Misunderestimator]

13. Because we've got more than lefties here.

;)

[VOX]

55. Bow + Arrow + Target **twang**>>---> **zip**>>-->**thunk** Center Shot!

:yourock:

[dbonds]

15. WE are not squabbling over her.

Just others stirring up stuff.

[deutsey]

18. I was wondering the same thing. Here's an idea:

Let's focus our ire on Karl Rove.

[Catherine Vincent]

21. Word.

I don't think they realize it.

[geek tragedy]

22. Because she was the original Swiftboat smear artist and discredits any

cause she publicly embraces.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Surely, you jest. Jane Fonda stands for everything the Swifites don't.

Discredits any cause she embraces? Not to me, and a whole bunch of other anti-war folks who remember her courage during the Vietnam genocide.

[Armstead]

23. Because we love to paint targets on our feet, and then shoot?

[Gormy Cuss]

29. It is interesting, but I think if she's this divisive at DU,

Imagine what her bus tour could do. I am glad she is willing to speak out against this war. I support her right to do so. I just think a national bus tour with Fonda as headliner is ill advised. To me, that would be like Michael Jackson touring as a child advocate. Jackson has not been proven guilty of anything but weirdness but I doubt he'd find broad support as a spokesperson for the rights of children.

[bostonbabs]

35. max Cleland

....Let Jane pay for someone like Max Cleland to do this.He has the trust and respect of most Americans and he has fought wars including the rethugs! It would be 100% better.

[Gormy Cuss]

39. Sounds good to me n/t

[Kraklen]

32. Lefties aren't squabbling over Jane Fonda.

Although I wish we'd stop feeding the trolls.

[noiretextatique]

37. bingo eom

[number6]

33. ?

:shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

38. what makes you think it's the lefties?

I never knew lefties to get in a huff over jane fonda, just right wingers. :shrug:

[ConsAreLiars]

42. There are some who think "we" should be very careful not to offend

the right. They argue that anyone who the right attacks should be denounced and ostracized so that "we" can be more appealing to the most brainwashed and ignorant segments of the US population. Thus, they say, in the interest of "winning," it is very important that "we" do not associate with people or causes that might draw the ire of the corporate media. They argue this way, of course, for "our" best interests.

[hexola]

43. Who's Jane Fonda? (nt)

[UTUSN]

46. Because Re-fighting THAT War Keeps Focus off of THIS War n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. It's red-baiting by the "moderates" who fear being called radicals.

All the anti-war "lefties" I've known over many years think Jane is a hero. The timid wing of the Democratic Party seem to have trouble with her because supporting her efforts will upset Rush Lumpbutt and his ilk.

[RetroLounge]

48. Because a lot of them are childish

little babies who are still nursing a 35 year old resentment and are toxic in their bitter hatred of a woman who apologized but apparently have forgiven the unrepentant Nixon, Kissinger, Westmoreland, et. al.

or not.

RL

[LibDemAlways]

51. It's that decades old resentment that

gets me. I posted yesterday on another thread that if Jane wants to be an activist senior citizen, that's her right. One person wrote an impassioned response telling me I was being insensitive to Vietnam Vets and letting me know how much he/she despises Fonda. Sorry, but Fonda, though naive at the time of her 1972 trip, was trying to use her celebrity to end the war and bring the troops home. Her book delivers an interesting account of the trip as well as her motives, admission of mistakes, and regrets. She later made "Coming Home" which was all about the plight of the Vietnam Vets.

You are right. Where is all the hatred toward the architects of the war who were responsible for the death and destruction? Why on earth should anyone care, over 30 years later, about the bit part played by an actress turned activist?

[BikeWriter]

59. Naive, please. jane was 34 year old...

when she made her trip to North Vietnam. She was even older when she called our returning POWs liars and hypocrites. Her apology came in 1988, 16 years later, because we were demonstrating at her movie site. Why should anyone hold a grudge over 30 years later? Perhaps if you were a VietNam veteran you would understand.

[RetroLounge]

62. Oooh, there it is!

It's the "I'm a Vet" defense.

Well, no point in duscussing this, you've pulled rank on me.

:hi:

RL

[BikeWriter]

58. I consider it childish to forgive an enemy who "apologised"...

under duress and years after the fact. Her "apology" came years after the war and only after our demonstrations slowed shooting on her movie. Please point out where anyone has forgiven Nixon, Kissinger, Westmoreland, et al.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

54. because carl rove is a traitor

along with the rest of the cabal.

that's why we talk about other less important things, because there are bigger fish to fry.

:sarcasm:

[CanSocDem]

60. Jane Fonda suppressed my sexism...

...and eventually cured me of treating women like mindless drones.

What a revelation to discover an articulate, attractive and liberal woman who was willing to sacrifice her career for a pro-humanity political choice. She showed us that EVEN 'privilege' wanted this war to end.

That helped the anti-war effort.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

61. Of course manufactured. She had an incredible film career after

the war. She was also a great box office draw. That should tell you something.