DU moderates check in here.

[Writer]

:hi: Let's push for unity! :hi:

[paineinthearse]

1. Please define "moderate" values nt

[WyLoochka]

2. Unity with the left of center folks

I hope - I am sick and tired of moderates pushing for unity with the right wing whack jobs.

[leftofthedial]

3. if by moderate you mean

extremely liberal,

here I am

[DanCa]

28. To quote Treebeard from lord of the rings

"Side's I am on no one's side because no one's on my side."

[leftofthedial]

29. I can't sleep

except on my left side

[seabeyond]

4. moderate here. all for unity. consistantly work for solidarity n/t

[seabeyond]

25. as a moderate i support dnc, not dlc. just to throw a wrench

into the wheels

[KarenInMA]

5. "Let the moderates fill the street yelling 'BE REASONABLE'"

- My Boyfriend, Jon Stewart.

[KG]

8. those firebrand moderates!

what do we want??? gradual change!!!
when do we want it??? in due course!!!

[Writer]

9. ROFL!

:rofl:

[radio4progressives]

21. LOL! thanks for the chuckles.. n/t

[WillyT]

44. LOL!!! - THAT... Is A Classic !!!

Thanks for the laugh.

:yourock:

[jonnyblitz]

35. "as they tiptoe through the streets whispering shhhhhhhhhhh" nt

[Mz Pip]

6. I guess that would be me

Though I do think the terminology is somewhat dated.

Those on the left supposedly want more government control of things. Honestly, does anyone here really want these clowns to have anymore contol over their lives then they already do?

I am pretty much of a libertarian on social issues. I do not care who my neighbor sleeps with. And I would like to see less of my tax dollars going to the Red States.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Cleita]

10. So why don't you guys form your own party.? You

would have a lot of support from moderate Republicans who no longer want to be associated with the rogue party the GOP stands for now. Just leave us tree hugging, socialist democrats to pursue what we think is right, not what you want.

[Mz Pip]

13. I like trees

and I'm not sure what you want is all that different from what I want.

I want responsible government. I want a government that doesn't get involved in my personal life. I want a governemnt that does not reward criminals or subsidize corporations.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Cleita]

15. Yeah, but I'll bet you are against socialized medicine

and pensions. I want a government that is willing to take on the challenges of the twenty-first century, a government that exists to take care of all its citizens, not just a privileged elite and corporate businesses.

[Mz Pip]

36. I want everyone to have access to health care

but I want people to be able to have choices. I support Social Security and pensions for people who have worked for the government. I do not believe that people who have worked for a company and paid into its retirement system should get screwed. This is our money. We have paid into the system.

You have a pretty narrow idea about what a moderate is about.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Cleita]

42. You said...

I do not believe that people who have worked for a company and paid into its retirement system should get screwed. This is our money. We have paid into the system.

Exactly, and that is what happens when you let the Corporation take care of your retirement. I have sad stories upon stories of lifelong employees of certain companies who have been cheated out of their pensions, or they had to settle for less because their companies folded or the money was disappeared somehow.

I really don't even trust unions with pension funds. But what if all the money take for your pension was put into a permanent trust fund, operated by the government and no one could touch it until you retire?

I personally have been cheated out of pension funds because once I quit a company, the money I had deducted either disappeared or was returned to me minus the interest.

[Tommymac]

7. Why categorize us?

Moderates, progressives, cynics, tin-hatters - we are all in this together...putting us in categories is divisive in and of itself.

:think:

[Zero Division]

19. I f'ing hate the false dichotomy set up between the fringes

of the American Center and Left. Whether it's the Al From, Will Marshall types on the center-right or the Ralph Nader, Alexander Cockburn types on the left, I'm sick of their attempts to pigeonhole everyone who doesn't conform to their incredibly narrow ideologies.

[Bucky]

66. Thank you. Perfectly said.

There's right and there's wrong. The polarizations only make it harder to talk to swingable voters. Which is, of course, the intent.

[Pushed To The Left]

26. We need to band together against our common enemy

We might not all agree on every issue, but we all want the right wing to go down in defeat!

[Tommymac]

53. Agreed. 100%. nt

[bonito]

11. I provided ballast for our ship as a moderate

but when it listed too the starboard so much I moved to port. Just trying too keep her afloat.

[bpilgrim]

12. moderate here, i will ALWAYS tolerate the new-dem minority

as long as they are tolerant of weTHEpeople ;->

peace

[KarenInMA]

14. "Go vote for Nader, you hippie"

(seen next to a Kerry/Edwards bumber sticker).

Like it or not there ARE people in this country who do not agree with us. And this IS a Democracy. Therefore, we need to compromise sometime.


MODERATES GET STUFF DONE!!

[radio4progressives]

24. Moderates get a lot of shite done - down the tubes for the Neo Cons. n/t

[KarenInMA]

27. are we close to socialized medicine?

Or nation wide gay marriage? or sweeping envirnmental reforms?? NO.

Are we better in ALL OF THOSE things in the past 40 years?? yes. Why? Because we have leaders who do not come off as radical left wing extremists.

Why do you think Bush is in power right now? because of who we nominated (who, if you see from my screen name, I've been voting into office for a while. Love 'im.) He doesn't play in the heartland. How do I know that? because he couldn't beat the WORST PRESIDENT EVER.


edit- that was mean.

[AuntieM1957]

46. Moderates gave USA

1) don't ask, don't tell

2) THE PATRIOT ACT

3) Iraqi War

4) Loss in 2000

5) Loss in 2004


Thanks, I'm full up with moderation.

I'm all for the big tent - just back off telling me what to believe.

I'm not toeing the line - through with that, honey. So Through With That!

[StefanX]

61. Hear, hear, AntieM1957!

Moderates who act like "me-too" Republicans aren't helping things.

[me b zola]

51. A single party system is hardly democracy.

:hurts:

[applegrove]

16. Moderates are people who hate neocons but refuse to be pushed

into believing things when there is not proof. Markets have done well for America. The problem is the elite control. Not the markets. Transparency throughout government & markets matters.

Concentration of power & wealth amongst a small group is bad.

[AuntieM1957]

47. Are you implying that non-moderates believe

things without proof?

So anyone who disagrees with "centrist" thought is incapable of critical thinking?

[applegrove]

64. They are called "realists". The far left doesn't do much thinking on

the economy. The new mood is 'protectionism' and not free trade deals. The poor in the world - and all their intellectuals are desperate for more open trade for Africa, Latin America, etc. The norms one sets up in such trade do not have to be neocon in 'thinking'. They can include world standards on health care (universal) and monopolies for emerging industries in emerging economies (like China does & like workers in Iraq would like).

Being against trade used to be a conservative thing. Liberal means "liberal trade". And yes - for America to face competition rather than not facing any - is tough. But it means poverty will be reduced in poorer countries. Prices may come down for civil goods - in time to match wage reductions.

It isn't black and white. Most people in the world are for trade and encouraging the growth of small and large business to keep economies rolling and jobs plenty. It is the only way a middle class exists. By taking powers away from elites. Europe did it in the 1700s and onward.

So I am not saying the far left doesn't think. That would be ridiculous. Some of the most effective policies like some form of universal health care came from the far left. And that will continue.

But people on the far left look at freaks like the neocons and don't put anything past them. So they believe in IHOP or whatever the conspiracy. Not everybody - but with increasing frequency as you head towards Nader. Moderates believe there is definitely something wrong with Bush & his myths and warmongering. But they wait for evidence and then jump on DSM or Rovegate. And of course no moderate would deny that the neocons are a band of loose utopians with ice in their hearts intent on world hegemony through bullying. And the evidence is mounting. But yes - there is a break between the two groups.

I would not call it 'thinking'. I would call it 'belief systems'.

Most moderates would say: "yes plastic, nylon, internet, nano-technology, the R & D in the defense industry gives the USA comparative advantage that we want to keep. We don't mind R & D - we just don't want war-mongers and sociopaths running the show.

The neocons are the ones who along with being freaking scary - jumped on trade and fair markets as a conservative policy - when it had always been a Liberal one. Democrats have gone to war more often than repukes in the past. Democrats have always been for intervention in geopolitics if absolutely necessary. So these are not new policies for the dems.

It is a matter of degress. Always has been in the Democratic big tent. Neocons & Rovbots will take that big tent away from us and scare people on the far left shitless in their attempt to shatter the political spectrum so they can take over the mods.

I'm saying that Moderates come up with policy of an economic nature and lefties of a social nature. And that is what has made Liberal Democracies so great. Because they have picked and chosen from both ore the years. And now that the USA will not be as rich as it was in the 20th Century - we have to make sure programs like welfare really work and don't encourage generations of poverty. But we can still afford welfare and all the other programs. We just need to make sure they are updated and efficient.

But you have to have an economic policy. Not having one would be like invading a country like Iraq with foolish war plans and expectations. Like the GOP did. And - in all modern democracies. When the lefties get into power they do follow market friendly policies. They don't get rid of corporations. They just regulate them to meet standards. Mods believe in that too.

It is the neocons who do not believe in any regulations or government interventions. Surely you see that Dem. mods are just as against starving the government as you are. So we have much in common. And frustrations born out of the trauma of these cooks in power and anger is driving a wedge between us. There always have been differences - but in times of high stress we become different tribes. So the people working on social issues are very scared and the people focused on economic & basic issues (like education) are scared too - but not so much. And that lovely mixture with input on both sides falls apart.

I don't want to see that happen. I keep saying if you look into Cheney's eyes long enough, or any nefarious type, they will dance us outside of our own best interests and realities in no time flat. Fear will do that. It overtakes all other considerations. The neocons know that. As long as they have us afraid in different ways according to our varying beliefs - they can wedge us.

We need to step back and talk between ourself and kick the neocon crap out of the discussion.

[Robbien]

17. Notice how the DLC has picked up the catapulting the propaganda campaign

tactics of the RNC.

The DLC conference gave the DLCers the marching orders to push "unity" and the DLCers come to DU and start a couple dozen thread catapulting the propaganda of "unity". Just the same way the catapulting the propaganda is done in freeperville. DLCbots.

[mattclearing]

31. Couldn't have said it better myself. n/t

[longship]

18. Need clear definition.

As long as moderate does *not* mean:

• Support for the Patriot Act
  
• Support for the Iraq War
  
• Support for huge deficits
  
• Support for Gitmo or Abu Graib
  
• Support for repeal of Roe v Wade
  
• Support for education vouchers
  
• Support for corporate excesses
  
• Opposition to labor organizations
  
• Opposition to social security as a government program
  
• Support for creationism (in any form) taught in science class
  
• Support for organized institutional prayer in public schools
  
• Support for religious/government entanglements
  
• Support for getting along with the Repugs
  

As long as these immoderate positions are excluded, moderation is absolutely okee-dokee with me.

[Tommymac]

20. Spot on.

:patriot:

[KarenInMA]

22. I think I like education vouchers. But I don't really know

what they are, as I don't have or like children.

Other than that, all those things are bad. talk to me about vouchers.

[longship]

33. I can't vouch for them.

Vouchers take money out of the public school system, already hopelessly underfunded, and

:sarcasm:
The main reason for vouchers is so parents can send their children to religious private schools so they don't have to learn about things like biology, health education, history, and stuff like that.
:sarcasm:

In practice, the vouchers are not large enough to enable people to pay the private school tuition, so that the only families who will be able to use them will be parents who can already afford private school. So a secondary effect of vouchers is the establishment of two different school systems in the U.S.A., one private system for people who can afford it, and one hugely underfunded public one for everybody else.

Vouchers suck big time.

[Redstone]

23. If I may butt in...

I do not belong to the Democratic Party, because I'm a lifelong independent voter.

However, I'd like to advise, if I could, that the people who are suspicious or disapproving of "moderates" (as was expressed in several posts here) may want to consider this:

No matter how much you believe in your ideals, and no matter how much you may want everyone else to believe in them (and no matter how noble those ideals may be), if you are too dogmatic about those ideals, you'll never get anywhere politically in the sense of getting your ideals translated into the law and / or spirit of the land.

The "moderates" are the ones who make your ideals possible, even if not to the extent you'd like.

We'd all like Utopia. We're not going to get it. But the "moderates" are the ones who, in practical terms, can possibly get us a bit of it.

I am as much a firebrand in my core beliefs as anyone. But politics has to be practical, doesn't it?

You far-left Democrats should be happy you have the moderate Democrats, because you need them.

With them, you may get SOME of your dreams accomplished.

Without them, you'll get NONE of your dreams accomplished.

Redstone

[Robbien]

30. What's this far left business?

Moderates in terms of the DLC is to the right of center.

Anyone even a smidgon to the left of the DLC is labeled far left.

Communism and total socialism is far left. I support neither but will still be labeled far left by the DLC and RNC. I am left/liberal. Not far left.

[Redstone]

34. Oh, fuck. Here we go. I wasn't labeling anyone, just

trying to make a point and be helpful.

If I got the labels wrong, then screw it, I'll stop trying to be helpful.

If you guys want to spend your time arguing labels left and right, day and night, the Republicans will continue to eat your lunch politically.

Which is, I think, what the original poster was trying to say as well.

Redstone

[Robbien]

38. When the people demanding I join with them

are pushing policies which are exactly opposite of what I believe, and those policies lose elections each and every time, what would be the reason to join with them?

They lose elections.

[Redstone]

41. Well, I think that'll be about the last time I try to be helpful.

Redstone

[Lecky]

49. Well I agree with you and I'm to the far left

but I'm also realistic to what it's going to take to make some progress.

[bpilgrim]

37. "politics has to be practical"

What'da I Win

peace

[radio4progressives]

65. sure - like all of our dreams for the future of this country went down

toilet exactly because "moderates" built the frame work and lay down the foundation so that fascists to slap together solid steel walls and doors with a special lock that only the blind and the loyal may enter.

sorry - there is no such thing as MODERATE anymore.

There is no so called "Center". that line got repositioned and repositioned over and over again until it finally rested just this side of Lindsey Graham's left shoulder.

It's also really amazing that this is the sort of thread that get's started in light of the fact there are videos of United States personnel who engaged in GANG RAPE of Women and CHILDREN, gang raping/sodomizing young pre-pubscent boys and girls at Abuh Ghraib, courtesy U.S. citizen tax dollars at work - and in our name.

When in the hell will so called "moderates" take on this issue?

When hell freezes over, that's when.

[Endangered Specie]

32. Checking in, I think.

somewhere on the border of moderate and liberal (though, VERY moderate relative to DU) :hi:

[salin]

39. I was considered a moderate in the late eighties

but the country has taken such a hard turn to the right in recent years that I would not be considered "moderate" in todays' terms.

[Dragonfli]

40. Would I have to Kiss Lieberman?

While giving friendly hand jobs to Frist?:loveya:

Sorry can't sign off on this.

They are raping me just fine without me goin' all "consenting adult" about the working class fuckings I've been getting.

I'd rather fight for progressive ideals than bargain against my best interest.

[AuntieM1957]

45. No just lay back and enjoy it for you, eh?

I like your style, Dragonfli!

I tried the middle road, and all I got was the worst governor in Texas history becoming the worst president ever.

I'm much happier being my true self - and fighting for what I believe - not what I think will win.

Not giving in this time - come hell or high water.

[Dragonfli]

48. Thanks!

I'm Just a realist.
I learned young that if you try to reach a compromise with a bully who wants your lunch money, you may avoid the black eye, but you will still find your pocket empty.

I'd rather risk a black eye and be able to eat, than starve to death in sycophantic fear while being robbed blind.

This is the correct posture to take against the corporate bullies:

[AuntieM1957]

43. So does this mean that you centrists have finally decided

to get out of the tepid water?

[Lecky]

50. I consider myself a bit left to moderate

but I'm all for unity against our opposition.

It drives me up the wall when I see so many Democrats being bashed, I sometimes feel like there are Republican plants at work at DU lol.

[Writer]

52. Kick!`

Sorry i'm tipsy and am curious about more responses. hic

[jzodda]

54. Moderate Dem here...

what are we checking in for anyway? lol

[Writer]

55. Pushing for unity!

With Democrats of all stripes. United we conquer, divided we fall.

[jzodda]

56. Post for Unity it is then! You are right Divided=bad bad bad

[Swamp Rat]

57. I'm not a "moderate" ... I'm crashing this party.

:D Where's the cheese? :9

[Writer]

58. It's over there, but I drank all the wine

*hic* sorry

All's welcome, bytheway

[Swamp Rat]

59. Thank you! ... See?... "moderates" are good rodents too!

;)

[Writer]

60. Blah.

That's all I"m gonna say. Just 'blah."

[burrowowl]

62. To paraphrase Gore Vidal

America has two right-wings.
How do you define moderate. Between the 2 right-wings?
A wing that would be called centrist in other nations and a bud of a wing to the left of the 2 said wings?
A wing bud on the left of the eagle?
Tell me! Tell me! I do pray!

[GiovanniC]

63. I'm Moderate on DU, and a Crazed, Wild-Eyed Loonie Leftist Everywhere Else

At least, that's what "they" tell me.