only a Revolution will turn it all around

[mopaul]

and no one wants it. they can't visualize it, and they see it as a cartoon concept. they can only see revolution as rioting and bloodshed and mayhem and chaos, but it doesn't have to be like that.

we can have a bloodless revolution, in fact it is our constitutional duty. all it takes it the will to do it. it'd be so easy we'd laugh after it was all over.

but our minds just ain't there yet.

[ck4829]

1. Some of our minds are there

Some people already know that it is not just our duty to do away with a corrupt government, but it is our responsibility.

[mopaul]

2. if we don't at least try, we'll never forgive ourselves later

he said, pessimistically

[michael_1166]

5. I don't think you'll

win much by putting your current government in jail. You need to start at the root: It's the corporations who pay those politicians you have to fight.

[Al-CIAda]

15. This is the point of attack. I agree 100%.

Campaign finance reform. Perhaps public financing of some sort. As it is now, corporations OWN the government. We are the servants.


Oh, and of course open HONEST elections. (i.e. - not rigged)

[Burried News]

25. That we think our best hope to save the Republic is

a young prosecutor, is itself a clear sign of our pessimism. More and more it appears that the Constitutional protections to insure a balance of power have failed. One need only look at the 'power to declare war' to see it.
This is as close to a Constitutional crisis as I ever want to see.

[marions ghost]

40. good points

the constitution is certainly being trampled and balance of power is looking more and more like just another silly 'liberal' notion. The vote is in conservative corporate hands. Tyranny looms. Will Americans really go along with this? :shrug:

[tavalon]

42. We here at DU scream at the top of our lungs

but most people don't even notice. That's the problem.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marions ghost]

49. Dunno how you can live with such a contradiction...

--you'd like to nuke them all in DC, ie. you have a suitably LOW opinion of how things are going, but at the same time you want to "pretend there is a Democratic process..." :eyeroll: I guess this is protection from "the cynicism of reality" but usually people who are in denial don't go around saying "I really know what's going on, but I'm choosing denial..."

It's like you're saying cognitive dissonance is healthy. Pretense is healthy. Don't worry, be happy?

[sweetheart]

58. So what's left jesus christ?

I'm saying that in a nation and a world of cultism, where coginitive
dissonance is the normal way of life, i fake it.

As a sovereign individual, i put my mind and my heart in to my family,
nature, meditation and enlightenment. The dissonance is a masque i
put on at the gate of my private life to the mental asylum of earth.
But face to face, heart to heart, i do my best to radiate fearlessness
and goodwill; that the dissonance is just surface chatter, sold by
the borgeious to repress the sovereign individual... and if enough of
us live freely without fear, it has a very powerful impact, no matter
appearances.

So the pretense is that i don't see any objective reality in life.
When i'm in a forest, or by the ocean, there is no dissonance. The
insanity is merely a trapping of the insane, to be discussed on DU,
or for talking down raving mad people at the pub to the common ground
of good humour.

It takes a revolution to make love out of hate... something jesus christ
taught, and as a poor devotee of his teachings, i still find it rewarding
to give it a go. :-)

Jesus was killed for not pretending to be dissonant. But he was
very centered in his enlightenment, rooted in the divine, that no
roman could corrupt him. I believe in tantra, however, where
irreconcilable opposites are meditation doorways to enlightenment,
where nothing is as it appears.

So yes, "Don't worry, be happy." :-)

[marions ghost]

64. whew

hey good luck with that...whatever works
I'd snap under that kind of schizoid approach, but people have different ways of coping. I guess I just never heard anyone say (basically) that disassociation is a good strategy. Interesting mental construct. Personally I've found that just at that moment when I think I'm escaping as an individual, in touch with nature and the spirits & all, something happens to jerk me back to the realization that our community and our environment is sick. I can't seem to float above it all and sing "Que Sera"...

I do agree with you that conquering fear is a big plus either way. Operating out of fear can lead to over-reactions.

[izzie]

4. I think we are in the Middle of it already

I think the GOP is trying to turn things back. We are just not keeping up with the world and how it is moving. Just take one small thing. The number of people in this world who vote for their leaders and how we are staying in the last 1700's on this. We can go in to almost all ways of thinking and see this. We, in this country,(the greatest) can not seem to bring our self to look at countries that are leaving us in the dust on education, science, health and need I go on?

[baby_mouse]

6. Fraid so.

But never mind, it might be fun...

[zippy890]

7. 'it is our constitutional duty' -- YES

Absolutely true!

The founding fathers envisioned the need for such actions --"When in the course of human events....."

Revolution to save the republic - is the patriotic thing to do.

Sometimes I wonder if the state of our government today indicates that this form of government is not working, that we need a Constitution Convention to 'form a more perfect union'. - How can 48% of the voters be so disenfranchised from the government?

Maybe something along the line of parliamentary type government, where significant groups form coalitions, it just seems this system is not working.

[mopaul]

8. fire em' all and start all over again from the ground up

it could be done.

[ladjf]

9. How?

[Tommymac]

19. One way is a Constitutional Convention.

Once one is called and convened...(for any reason), it becomes the legal government. It is not limited to the issue it was called for..it can do anything up to and including throwing the entire Constitution out and starting over again.

Problem is getting one called to order legally...and making sure it is not controlled by the Dark Side.

[Selatius]

24. The federal government would do whatever necessary to abort it

You can guarantee that. If people who crave and hunger for power are not above assassinating civil rights leaders and presidents to get their way, then they are most certainly not above assassinating leaders who foment "sedition and treason" against the federal government.

[ladjf]

31. I agree. You'd be lucky to only be put in to a regular American

prison without torture. You might get a life sentence for treason. I'm not kidding. The Thugs in Power (TIP) have no limits to what they would do to retain their position of power.

[MaryBear]

38. And well it could be controlled by the Dark Side!

Don't mess with Mother Nature

or her US Constitution.

[wli]

13. someone made noise about recalling congressmen

That would take some massive mobilization to get enough votes, though, and I'm not even sure of the mechanics of it or whether it's possible in every state.

In any event, if that holds water (which I'm not sure it does) then stacking the House and Senate with sufficient numbers of Congressmen willing to impeach should suffice.

[wli]

12. it's a bit worse than 48% but I agree about proportional representation

Insert usual election fraud blurb, the part we agree on is the parliamentary bit.

[SpiralHawk]

52. "When in the course of human events..."

...when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty..."

[foo_bar]

67. it's more of a Jeffersonian duty

The Constitution itself is pretty pro-Constitution, the only way to change it "from within the system" is to amend it (or interpret it differently). Jefferson wanted the Bill of Rights enshrined in the unamended constitution, but Hamilton was the editorial victor:

"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colourable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist, 28 May 1788
http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/federalist/federalist.80.html#fed84

[JanMichael]

10. The only "Revolution" USains know about is that Chevy advert.

Or a Nike commercial or a new flat screen TV.

It'll be quite a shock to most when the real deal imposes itself upon all.

It's not a shiny yellow pick-up truck.

[flordehinojos]

11. the bushes gave us a bloodless coup d'etat in nov. 2000 -- (although they

added the 9/11/01 Reichstag like burning to shore up their hold on government.)

We could give them back a bloodless revolution. All it takes is the press speaking the truth and printing it every day -- but right now they are just focused on dictators outside the u.s.a. borders -- ask andrea mitchell greenspan.

[wli]

14. pray tell how to get the press to do anything here?

I suspect more plausible is undermining the credibility of the mainstream media to such an extent that everyone relies on independent media not quite so readily compelled to lie on the regime's behalf.

[flordehinojos]

17. you are probably right ... although it seemed that some in the msm were

beginning to be enlightened by the truth ... perhaps it is too son too tell.

[wli]

18. enlightened by the truth is what it takes to get them to stop lying?

And the next issue? And the one after?

[flordehinojos]

20. maybe we are talking apples and oranges here...now i am confused.

in my mind, if a person sees the truth, the truth sets them free. it does not allow them to continue lying. but perhaps some of those in the msm are lying even when they see the truth, and that is downright dirty. in my mind some of them are so ignorant or tilted that they cannot see the truth, and therefore, they spit out the bush propaganda... and in my mind also , there are those who are greedy and sacrifice integrity for a few silver coins and that too is down right dirty ... as for me, i know that if i see the truth of something, i cannot continue claiming anything opposite to the truth as truth. anyhow... as i said above, i am now confused.

[bonito]

28. You are not confused. refreshing!

[Selatius]

29. You need to ask who owns the corporate news media

You also need to ask yourself what connections they have to big business in general. Then you need to ask who is it that funds the campaigns of countless Republicans and Democrats. You need to follow the money. The money is the puppet strings. The puppet master is the people who own it all and wanted it this way.

Bush Co. is simply one splinter group in the corporatist agenda to own and control everything in the name of the lust for more wealth and power, at the expense of democracy and freedom. You can get rid of Bush Co. by voting them out, but you can't get rid of the money-men and the influence-peddlers who walk the halls of Congress enticing politicians with their large bankrolls. They don't run for office, so they can't be voted out.

[tavalon]

44. The same way we have been

We scream and scream at them, we send LTTE that actually get printed, we turn to alternative forms of media, we turn our backs on the print media and boycott them into doing the right thing. We just keep pushing and pushing and pushing.

It's not fun and it's rarely gratifying (Rovegate aside) but it is the work of patriots.

[ladjf]

32. There is absolutely no doubt that you are correct.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. I agree w/ mopaul...

we need a revolution.

so say I.

[graywarrior]

21. My mind has been there for a while.

We need something to snap the Bush supporters out of their cult trance. I cannot believe that average people still worship every lie tht comes out of his, and his administration's mouths.

It saddens and angers me that people voted for him because they really believe he is a man of God. He's a fake, and a liar with serial killer tendencies who has committed mass murder in Jesus' name.

If we are being led to our slaughter by a severely mentally ill administration, then we have no choice but to fight it with a revolution. I am amazed that we all sit and watch day after day. We all know from the day after Bush was selected into the presidency that he would attack Iraq. We all KNEW it. We talked about it. Everyone knew. The entire world knew. But here we are, years later, the news media tip toeing around the Downing Street Memo, the Plame case pretending this is all new info and gosh, what a surprise.

I am sick to death of sitting around doing nothing but complaining about it. I'm sick of being led by trash like O'Reilly, Hannity, Rush and Fox News. I'm sick of following protocal and letting the evidence leak out like ooze.

I'm tired of democrat senators and congress continue to act like cowards. News flash: they work for us. We don't care about their special interest groups, their jobs, or who they owe favors to.

I've been ready for a revolution since the conservatives started in on Clinton in '90. This crap has been going on in public for 15 years and has been in the making for 30 and I've had it.

So, let's start the revolution.

[tavalon]

45. Actually, those of us watching day after day

aren't sitting still. We are busting our butts to get this out to the public. It's the half of America that isn't even paying attention and can't be bothered to vote. Most people don't watch news, they don't read newspapers nor surf the internet for the important information.

[earth mom]

22. Kick!

:kick:

[petgoat]

23. Midterm Elections Traditionally Go to the Opposition

in a regime's second term.

Next year can be the year of 9/11 truth with the five-year
retrospectives. If the media half-way do their job in exposing the
criminal negligence of the Bushcists in ignoring all the pre-9/11
warnings the people will be so disgusted there will be a Democratic
sweep. And then impeachment in 2007 is a realistic possibility.

[annabanana]

27. machines, machines ,machines...

We have to get those lying, rigged machines out of our polling places...

[ladjf]

34. The machine problem MUST be priority NUMBER ONE.

Otherwise, all other efforts are useless.

[petgoat]

53. Honest Voting Machines Priority One

So go to verifiedvoting.org and look at the map and see if your state
has enacted legislation requiring voter-verifiable paper ballots.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/index.php

[MaryBear]

26. We have a Revolution every time we Vote.

We have to

educate the public - get the facts out quickly, over and over!

get out the vote - early on voting day!

[electron_blue]

33. Who here remembers the revolutions of the late 1980's/early 90's?

Fall of communism, end of cold war, etc.

Remember how the revolutions took off once Lithuania voted to break free of the Soviet Union? Remember how exciting that time was? Remember how many people filled the streets finally demanding the ouster of Cesceascu (sp?) in Romania?

Something similar can happen here - people have to believe they can make a difference!

[MaryBear]

37. We here rebel with the vote!

Don't minimize it, please.

[tavalon]

46. And Diebold

Usurped your rebelling. Sorry.

[MaryBear]

47. Voter fraud has always existed. Still,

we have to educate the public, and get out the vote even more so! To give up on it is to let the fraud succeed.

[marions ghost]

50. Election fraud

and suppression has now reached proportions only dreamed of in the past. Therefore it is equally as important as GOTV.

[electron_blue]

59. Of course, we shall do it at the polls

I didn't meant to suggest we overthrow Bush. I just brought up two examples to show how the emotional tide of the people has to change first. Btw - dont' forget. Lithuania is a great example. They made their revolution at the polls!!

[Beam Me Up]

30. THERE IS A PLAN: "21st Century American Revolution"

Uncommon Sense
21st Century American Revolution

By Michael Hasty
Online Journal Columnist

November 25, 2004—If there were any doubts remaining that the United States of America is no longer a functioning democracy, those doubts disappeared in the presidential election of 2004. The uncomfortably open-ended question we are left with is: where do we go from here?

Those among us who have managed to weave our way through the minefields of media disinformation, to a commonsense understanding of reality—some people call us the "reality-based community"—find ourselves in a situation that is unprecedented in American history. That is, we are the first generation of Americans since the nation's founding who do not have the fundamental tools of democracy—a free press, and a fair vote—to effect policy change.

The dangers we face now cannot be overstated. At the risk of repeating myself, let me amplify on a point I made in a previous column:

A number of commentators have noticed the disturbing parallels between the regimes of George W. Bush and Adolph Hitler. (Wayne Madsen, in particular, has done some excellent analysis on this point.) But it is more critical at this time, given the historical trends, to focus on the constituencies that elevated both of these two men to power.

Hitler rose to his position as the "Leader" of Germany with the support of three major elements in German society: big business, which was won over by Hitler's covert promise to break the labor unions; the defense industry and the military, which responded to Hitler's call for disregarding the restrictions on German military buildup imposed by the treaty that ended World War I; and rural religious conservatives. Hitler won over this last group with his appeals to their feelings of defeated, yet resurgent nationalism; and with his hateful condemnations of those of their fellow citizens at the top of their personal enemies list: communists, homosexuals and Jews.

Substituting "Muslims" for "Jews," this is today's Republican Party, which now controls all three branches of the federal government, most of the nation's governorships, and perhaps most importantly, the major media (now owned by a handful of corporations).

America has lost its democratic republic to a system of one-party imperial fascism.

More at link above. The plan is to form an new American Confederacy based on communities of cells. The whole article is in three parts.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

35. Join us in our attempt for election reform!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

We cannot change a thing unless we reform the election system (short of a revolution, new constitution, etc.).

We need all the help we can get in contacting everyone possible to inform them about election fraud and reform! Please help us educate and work for a new election system while there is still a chance!

[Lone_Wolf]

36. It can be done...

All we have to do is what the Founding Fathers did.

They essentially said to England, "F.U. From here on out, you don't have authority over us." Then they proceeded to set up their own government.

I already don't recognize dictator Bush and Cheney. They stole the election in 2000 making them illegitimate.

[tavalon]

48. But then

there's that American Revolution thing which would actually have more of an American Civil War flavor - with nuclear weapons.

I'm not saying you don't have a kernel of truth here but we have to look at this as a little more complex.

[specimenfred1984]

39. Here's What I Do...

I make every republican I know aware of their support of treason, torture, WMD lies, etc...

I never let them forget it and mention it every single time I see them, no matter how repetivitve I sound. I also make fun of the repubs, their simple stupidity and their complex stupidity for believing the rightwing propaganda they read.

I don't care about their friendship anymore and haven't for a while, I remain on a superficial level when engaging in activities with them.

If a real fight ever breaks out, I help as much as I can but repubs won't fight, they already know they're wrong. They're just trying to get away with lies as long as they can.

They don't get away with lies around me anymore.

[kid a]

41. but the MALL is open until 9pm - can we do it then?

[bvar22]

43. The Chavez Revolution in Venezuela was essentially bloodless.

It was also accomplished without a Media Voice (Venezuela Media owned by Right Wing).

The people had finally HAD ENOUGH. A populist 3rd Party Candidate galvanized the population who stormed the polls in numbers that were undeniable. They stood in the streets again in support of THEIR president during a failed right wing coup supported (instigated) by the US.

It helped that the population in Venezuela is concentrated in ONE large city, Caracas. Word of mouth could be spread quickly through the streets.
The logistics are different in the US, but I pray not insurmountable.

Necessary items:
*We ALREADY have the Communication Medium.

*A POPULIST candidate NOT a part of the Corrupted Washington Elite.

*An ignition of Grass Roots Working Americans who are finally FED UP enough to look past Republican/Democrat allegiances and SEE that OUR government has been BOUGHT by the Corporatists.

*Overwhelming Numbers, enough to deny the Establishment and the Owned Media the ability to Steal the election.


*The courage to chop off the top 6 floors of our Corporate Hierarchy and rebuild from the ground up (This would be very nasty).

[petgoat]

55. Chop Off the Corporate Hierarchy

Our military budget is nearly as great as that of the rest of the world
COMBINED.

Since a citizen army is perfectly capable of defending us from invasion
by Canada or Mexico, one must suppose that the reason for this state of
affairs is the Republicans' wish to defend the interests of Halliburton
and GE and ExxonMobil et. al abroad.

Is it worth it? Have we ever debated this issue? Did we ever as a
nation democraticly decide this was right?

[Freedomfried]

51. I'll pick up my pitchfork and fight like a farmer

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

54. You mean like Phillipines/Marcos?

[Freedomfried]

60. Well......, than "I'll pick up my bolo and fight like a Moro"

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I agree and we may very well be at the cusp of one

But you are corect, short of a revolution this will not change

[mopaul]

62. all the signs are there, and none too optimistic.

for those paying attention

[donheld]

57. Mopaul i wish like hell you were wrong on this

but i think you are right on the money here, i really think it's going to take a revolution now. Maybe a civil war.

[stlsaxman]

61. Inspiring quotes-

"No one has a right to sit down and feel hopeless. There's too much work to do!" Dorothy Day

"The Revolution will NOT be televised." Gil Scott-Heron

[Independent_Liberal]

63. November 2nd: Drive the Bush Regime Out!

http://www.worldcantwait.com/

[reverendpatrick]

65. The Revolution is SIMPLE...

...and you can begin your part in it TODAY.

Really!

It's very easy!

Are you ready for it?

Here it comes:

STOP BUYING ALL THAT CHEAP PLASTIC CRAP THAT YOU DON'T NEED ANYWAY! STOP SPENDING YOUR MONEY TURNING OIL INTO PROFIT! THINK ABOUT WHERE YOUR MONEY IS GOING! A CONSUMER REVOLUTION IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL STOP THIS EVIL!!!

You can bitch and moan all you want, but until you stop giving them so much of your money, nothing's going to change. You are paying for all of this - not only with your tax dollars, but with your consumption dollars.

Don't get in the car and drive anywhere you don't need to go. Combine trips. Every gallon of gas you burn is profit for the "Evil-doers"! On both sides! Stop wasting so much oil on packaging - buy things in bulk. Turn off the friggin' lights and other appliances when you don't need them.

It seems like a no-brainer, yet so few people seem to understand this.

Want another quick example? Cingular is "rebuilding" the cell phone infrastructure in Iraq. You know, the infrastructure that WE destroyed during "Shock and Awe." They were given the contract to do this. Got a Cingular cell phone? FUCK YOU! You are part of the problem!

Sorry to yell at all you nice people, your hearts are in the right place. It's a matter of making sure your dollars are as well...

[knabb]

66. The Joy of Revolution

THE JOY OF REVOLUTION
http://www.bopsecrets.org/PS/joyrev.htm

(Table of Contents)

CHAPTER 1: SOME FACTS OF LIFE
Utopia or bust
Stalinist "communism" and reformist "socialism" are merely
variants of capitalism
Representative democracy versus delegate democracy
Irrationalities of capitalism
Some exemplary modern revolts
Some common objections
Increasing dominance of the spectacle

CHAPTER 2: FOREPLAY
Personal breakthroughs
Critical interventions
Theory versus ideology
Avoiding false choices and elucidating real ones
The insurrectionary style
Radical film
Oppressionism versus playfulness
The Strasbourg scandal
The poverty of electoral politics
Reforms and alternative institutions
Political correctness, or equal opportunity alienation
Drawbacks of moralism and simplistic extremism
Advantages of boldness
Advantages and limits of nonviolence

CHAPTER 3: CLIMAXES
Causes of social breakthroughs
Postwar upheavals
Effervescence of radical situations
Popular self-organization
The FSM
The situationists in May 1968
Workerism is obsolete, but workers' position remains pivotal
Wildcats and sitdowns
Consumer strikes
What could have happened in May 1968
Methods of confusion and cooption
Terrorism reinforces the state
The ultimate showdown
Internationalism

CHAPTER 4: REBIRTH
Utopians fail to envision postrevolutionary diversity
Decentralization and coordination
Safeguards against abuses
Consensus, majority rule and unavoidable hierarchies
Eliminating the roots of war and crime
Abolishing money
Absurdity of most present-day labor
Transforming work into play
Technophobic objections
Ecological issues
The blossoming of free communities
More interesting problems


The complete text of "THE JOY OF REVOLUTION" is online at
http://www.bopsecrets.org/PS/joyrev.htm


* * *


The Bureau of Public Secrets website features "The Joy of Revolution" and other writings by Ken Knabb (recently collected in the book "Public Secrets") and Knabb's translations from the Situationist International (the notorious avant-garde group that helped trigger the May 1968 revolt in France).


BUREAU OF PUBLIC SECRETS
http://www.bopsecrets.org

"Making petrified conditions dance by singing them their own tune."