Something very interesting Pat Buchanan just said on MSNBC...

[YEM]

He explained that this "memo" was passed around on Air Force One when they were on their way to Africa. Supposedly, the memo was sent to Powell, and he showed everyone on the plane. Well, guess who was on that plane?? EVERYONE. Which would mean they all knew about this ploy to destroy Wilson. Rove just made some errors to expose this.

This is going to get good!!!

You can tell the press smells blood for the first time with this administration. This is the first time I have seen them really go after this administration.

[goclark]

1. Help me "what did the memo say?"

[skooooo]

2. This is the first time I've heard about this "memo"

What exactly is it?

[shraby]

5. It was in the NYT

<http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html?ei=5094&en=6d88216f8e1a7671&hp=&ex=1121572800&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print>

[maddezmom]

6. Prosecutors zero in on memo for clues in CIA agent leak

They want to know who on Bush team saw report on Plame
Douglas Jehl, David Johnston, Richard Stevenson, New York Times

Saturday, July 16, 2005


Printable Version
Email This Article




Washington -- Prosecutors in the CIA leak case have shown intense interest in a 2003 State Department memorandum that explained how a former diplomat came to be dispatched on an intelligence-gathering mission and the role of his wife, a CIA officer, in the trip, people who have been officially briefed on the case said.

Investigators have been trying to learn whether officials at the White House and elsewhere in the administration learned of the CIA officer's identity from the memorandum. They are seeking to determine if any officials then passed the name along to journalists and if officials were truthful in testifying about whether they had read the memorandum, the people who have been briefed said, asking not to be named because the special prosecutor heading the investigation has requested that no one discuss the case.

The memo was sent to Colin Powell, then the secretary of state, just before or as he traveled with President Bush and other senior officials to Africa starting on July 7, 2003, when the White House was scrambling to defend itself from a blast of criticism a few days earlier from the former diplomat, Joseph Wilson, current and former government officials said.

Powell was seen walking around Air Force One during the trip with the memo in hand, said a person involved in the case who also requested anonymity because of the prosecutor's admonitions about talking about the investigation.

more:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/07/16/MNGJ8DOUOU1.DTL

[maddezmom]

3. I heard that, too......

:D

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

75. Ha Ha Ha!

We should ALL start using that expression!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

112. Oh, you know about it?

:rofl:

[Boredtodeath]

4. Which means they all KNEW

The memo proves Plame was a CIA operative.

So, before any of them spoke to the press, they clearly understood they were outing an undercover CIA agent.

[YEM]

7. I really belive that outing Plame was an accident...

But an accident that blew this wide open. They were trying to destroy Wilson, and made a mistake. My theory is that the calls were made from Air Force one, by Rove and Libby. But they were asked to make those calls. I'm sure Dubya was sitting right there with them!! They are going down!

Here is the NYT via Daily Kos..




Prosecutors in the C.I.A. leak case have shown intense interest in a 2003 State Department memorandum that explained how a former diplomat came to be dispatched on an intelligence-gathering mission and the role of his wife, a C.I.A. officer, in the trip, people who have been officially briefed on the case said.
Investigators in the case have been trying to learn whether officials at the White House and elsewhere in the administration learned of the C.I.A. officer's identity from the memorandum. They are seeking to determine if any officials then passed the name along to journalists and if officials were truthful in testifying about whether they had read the memo, the people who have been briefed said, asking not to be named because the special prosecutor heading the investigation had requested that no one discuss the case.

About the memo:


The memorandum was sent to Colin L. Powell, then the secretary of state, just before or as he traveled with President Bush and other senior officials to Africa starting on July 7, 2003, when the White House was scrambling to defend itself from a blast of criticism a few days earlier from the former diplomat, Joseph C. Wilson IV, current and former government officials said.

[indie_voter]

21. AH HA!!

This memo and the connection to Air Force One is why the phone records were subpoenaed.

OMG!!!

This could be HUGE!!! I only wish my dad lived to see this, he was really upset when Bushco "won" last November.

[FreedomAngel82]

102. Aw

I'm sure your dad is watching with glee! :hug: Hopefully the next time I see my grandfather I'll have something nice to tell him (he's sick now but doing okay). He doesn't like Bush and thinks he's a moron. ;) Last November he and my grandmother voted for Kerry. I told him about Karl Rove last week but since then more has come out. Hopefully Fitzgerald gets the whole gang. :D

[sellitman]

125. He is watching.

And smiling.

[Straight Shooter]

26. Outing Plame is an "accident" if you're 5 years old.

By the time you reach the age where your cognitive faculties kick in, and certainly if you're in the highest levels of the most powerful government in the world, plain basic common sense tells you not to retaliate against someone by revealing the identity of a CIA agent.

They can't claim they didn't know she was covert. They are duty bound to ascertain her status before opening their big maws and going on the attack.

No accident. It was deliberate, petty, and malicious.

[bunny planet]

31. I don't even think it was petty. It was two-pronged and calculated.

Retaliate against Wilson for having the audacity to contradict their excuses for pre-emptive war. Then, to kill two birds with one stone, also out her cover company Brewster-Jennings (second Novak article) and everyone working undercover with them, because those agents were getting too close to some 'inconvenient' information (Saudi oil info., no WMD's in Iraq, Cheney's not so up and up dealings with Pakistan????)

[leesa]

53. She was getting close to the long-term financing of terrorism by the Bush

Crime Family along with their Saudi pals, including their buddies, the bin Ladens. Hardly petty, more like critical to shut it down.

[omega minimo]

67. Ranti Rhodes details Plame "followthemoney" trail on her show/site

They were doing their job and getting too close to the center

[Lex]

98. Ranti?

lol! good description

[omega minimo]

99. The Goddess of Radio and the Queen of Rant

You go girl!

[robertpaulsen]

139. I wonder if Rhodes has read American Judas.

DU followed the money last summer and came to the same conclusions.

[Talismom]

86. I absolutely agree with you Bunny! This crowd has never stopped operating

in their "fight dirty" campaign mode--it's all they really know how to do well. This is just one more smear campaign like those they used against McCain and all their other political opponents. Only now their arrogance blinded them to the limits of what they could get away with.

[FreedomAngel82]

103. Exactly

If you need farther proof of this watch the PBS documentary on Rove called "The Architect". In this film it tells how after they got in in 2000 he started working right away on 2004 and he's always working campaign style. So this was no accident indeed. This film helps you understand how Karl Rove works.

[sellitman]

127. Well put!

Blind Arrogance INC.

[BrklynLiberal]

100. I agree with you 100%. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing

and what the results would be. They just never thought they would get caught with their hands in the cookie jar!!!

[bunny planet]

29. Yea right, an accident!!!!

I suppose Novak's second article outing her CIA cover company Brewster-Jennings was an accident too.

I don't think so.

[WhiteTara]

32. accident? no. careless disregard for national security? yes

don't forget this is the party of dirty tricks. They don't care what the consequences, because they all believe they are above the law. Well, we shall see.
:popcorn:

[AnnInLa]

38. Rove was not on Air Force One on that trip

www.talkleft.com

Rove Didn't Go to Africa, Not On Air Force One

The AP article detailing Rove's e-mail to Deputy National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley I just wrote about also has this piece of information:

Rove sent the e-mail shortly before leaving the White House early for a family vacation that weekend, already aware that another journalist he had talked with, syndicated columnist Robert Novak, was planning an article about Plame and Wilson.

Rove also knew that then-CIA Director George Tenet planned later that same day to issue a dramatic statement that took responsibility for some bad Iraq intelligence but that also called into question.

Rove spoke to Novak on July 8 and Cooper on July 11. Tenet's statement was released July 11. Bush left for Africa on July 7, 2003 and returned on July 12.

Fitzgerald supboenaed the telephone records of Air Force One between July 7 and 12 - the period of the Africa trip. So clearly, Rove wasn't on the trip or the plane - and it's not Rove's conversations while he was on board Air Force One that Fitzgerald was after.
k | Death Penalty | Comments (4)
Abu Graib Abuse Began at Guantanamo

A new report released by the military shows that the tactics used in the abuse of Abu Ghraib prisoners began at Guantanamo.

Interrogators at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, forced a stubborn detainee to wear women's underwear on his head, confronted him with snarling military working dogs and attached a leash to his chains, according to a newly released military investigation that shows the tactics were employed there months before military police used them on detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee

MORE...

[Bumblebee]

50. F. supboenaed the telephone records of Air Force One

Did he get them -- or did they declare executive privilege?

[peacetalksforall]

46. Accident? What do they pay all those lawyers for?

[leesa]

52. Funny. You didn't explain how this could POSSIBLY be an "accident"

Why would you "accidently" leak an undercover agents identity, especially when her husband had just exposed a WH lie and she was closing in on the Bush Crime Families funding of terrorists?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

65. "Accident"? Nothing the NeoCons have done to date has been accidental.

[hickman1937]

104. The big spyder, daddy bush, has acess to all that info.

This was no accident.

[dmr]

108. No, not an accident

These people, particularly, Karl Rove are manipulative, vengeful, mean and dangerous thugs.

They are an organized crime mob operating behind a front called the United States Government.

Their hubris and belief that they are above the law is their fatal mistake. They cannot control the CIA, despite their appointment of Porter Goss; and it is because of the career CIA men and women that this betrayal has legs.

Their goal was to discredit and intimidate not only the Wilson family, but to any others who might have the temerity to cross their PNAC plans. They were too close to declaring their right to invade a sovereign nation, and damn if they were going to let someone like Ambassador Wilson get in their way.

It backfired on them.

[zorbasd]

20. OH, yes, they all knew, the whole National inSecurity Team knew

Every single one of them, conspiring revenge against Joe Wilson and his wife.
Rove is just the lowly thug who carries out the dirty work for this gang of criminals in the N.S. Team. I have no proof, it's just a gut feeling, because these people are a bunch of pathological megalomaniacs.
Look, be a fly on the wall of Air Force One on that day, their Niger uranium lies just exposed by Wilson's NYT op ed, they are in panic mode,
what do they say, "frickin Wilson, who does this frickin nobody Wilson think he is to mess with our righteous mission, he'll pay for this," and they act with supreme malice to conspire.

[leftofthedial]

49. They are in panic mode

they also are blind with rage against another one of their "own," Joe Wilson, who puts truth and honor above blind loyalty to the boy king and the fascist movement.

AND

their chief spinner, manipulator and rat fucker, Karl Rove is on vacation.

So, they blew it and stepped on their own cranks.

[bunny planet]

61. They didn't know how to reach Rove when he's on vacation????

I think he does his dirty work 24/7, never really takes a vacation.

[bunny planet]

60. It wasn't just Wilson they were after for retaliation. Otherwise Novak

would not also have outed Brewster Jennings in a later article. They wanted the whole operation that Plame was working undercover with brought down. Why???

[ribrepin]

76. Yes, why name Brewster Jennings?

I think they wanted the operation brought down too.

The question is why. Maybe Brewster Jennings didn't think we'd be greeted with flowers or that Saddam had weapons of WMD. Viola, Brewster Jennings ceases to exist and the naysayers cease to exist.

[Talismom]

87. On the Randi Rhodes show the other day they discussed how this

company was closing in on the Saudi financeers of Osama bin Laden, who also bailed out GWs losses. Pretty interesting possible motive!

[mom cat]

77. And where did Novac get his instructions to go after Brewster-Jennings?

This second story by Novak deserves a lot more attention than it is getting.

[bunny planet]

83. I think so too.

Time to be the media again, or at least, remind the media about Novak's second article outing Brewster Jennings. Just in case outing Valerie Plame wasn't enough to shut down Brewster Jennings, Novak had to release the specific name of the company. That was classified information too I'm sure. I think following the trail on one article is important but they're may be a trail from the second article too that can help narrow things down.

[ribrepin]

122. Yes, the more important story is printing the name of a CIA cover company

They wanted to get Plame for whatever reason. They weren't satisfied with announcing her name to the world--they had to announce the name of the operation she was connected with. This smells like a lot more than bumbling and missteps.

Why in world would you announce the name of a CIA cover company on the eve of war?

[mom cat]

124. I couldn't agree more....That is far more than going after Joe Wilson or

his wife.It is the intentional outing of a whole group of people involved in undercover work on Saudi Arabia.This really smells bad.

[mom cat]

80. Welcome to DU norbasd! I like your passion!

:hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

101. Yes

Why did Robertson admit though? Does he know he's screwed if he doesn't?

[fasttense]

8. The only reason the corporate media

are actually sometimes telling the truth and doing some investigating is they are all scared they will end up in jail with Judith. They finally realized this administration doesn't give two f***s about them. They will turn on the media, lock their butts up and throw away the keys as soon as they stop being useful. Some journalists are finally realizing this.

[wli]

16. not really

Follow the money. BushCo isn't in charge.

[Jane Austin]

54. Can you explain this?

I can't tell what you mean.

[wli]

95. pretty simple

BushCo failed to get oil from Iraq properly and worse yet are threatening to wreck the ship of state, and so are being reined in. They themselves don't control the media, the shareholders do.

[Jane Austin]

96. Hmmm . . . I've been a shareholder

and I couldn't control sh*t.

Management controlled everything, so maybe they do in the media, too.

Is that what you're saying?

[wli]

97. quantity and quality

I had in mind those holding large numbers of voting shares, not individual investors.

[Jane Austin]

106. I didn't say how many shares I or my family held

n/t

[Wapsie B]

27. I think that's part of it.

With Miller in Jail the press has got it through their thick heads that what happened to her could happen to them.

[dogday]

9. This disproves Karl's statment

that he did not know who Plame was. If he was on that plane, he knew and he has at least lied to the GJ...

[GOPGoindown]

42. Was Rove on the plane or not?

I just read in another thread that Rove was not on the trip to Africa. This comment was unsubstantiated. If Rove was not on that plane this memo is huge as it implicates everyone who was on the trip in addition to Rove.

There must be some way to find out where he was.

[bunny planet]

63. He wasn't on the plane.

[mom cat]

82. Evidently Rove was not on that plane at that time. (He is on Air Force

One today with Bush, but probably not on the flight in question on July 7, 2003). That is why the phone logs from Air Force One for the duration of that Africa trip had been subpoenaed.

[thefloyd]

10. Everyone here is putting the same points

together peoople at kos put together.

[DemsUnited]

11. SO WHO WAS ON THE PLANE???

The only thing I can find is this snippet from Talkleft.com:

"We also know that the White House won't release the names of those who accompanied President Bush on the trip, although we know that Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell and Andrew Card were with him."

http://www.talkleft.com/new_archives/011478.html

If this bit of info is true, it's QUITE telling. If the White House has nothing to hide, why won't they tell us who was on the plane when Powell "passed the memo around"??

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. There might be video at WhiteHouse.gov of him making speeches

on the trip, and maybe it can be seen who's in the background???

[Boredtodeath]

25. Here it is

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030708-1.html

Just one of the photo captions from there:
President George W. Bush and Laura Bush tour the Slave House on Goree Island, Senegal, with President Abdoulaye Wade and Viviane Wade of Senegal, Secretary of State Colin Powell, far left, and National Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice Tuesday, July 8, 2003. White House photo by Paul Morse.

[nannah]

93. so, was laura on the plane?

was she privy to conversations and views of the memo? or did she ride in a different plane?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

109. And your point is? n/t

[nannah]

117. no point... just curious?

would she be privy to on plane conversation? wouldn't that be a violation of confidence in itself?

[LizW]

57. On the plane

Bush, Rice, Powell, Andy Card, Ari Fleischer, and assorted reporters and a couple of congressmen. I'm sure there were probably other assistants and deputies, but no way of knowing who. There's a speech Bush gave in Africa where he recognizes the big names and thanks them for coming on the trip. I'll post the link when I find it again.

Rove didn't go. He stayed behind in Washington, and left on Friday for a "family vacation".

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. Yet, if the calls from AFO are being subpoened, was Rove called?

[LizW]

71. Quite likely, I think, but we don't know. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

85. LOL! I hope that some day, sooner than later that we will! n/t

[dooner]

94. Rove's dream vacation....

bunkering down with Cheney and Gannon?

[bunny planet]

64. I think Ari Fleischer was on the trip as well.

[mom cat]

88. Condi was on the flight. Several days later Stephen Hadley gets an e-mail

from Rove that sounds like somebody reporting on an assignment. Rove is reporting to Hadley, hey, I didn't take the bait the president's been in trouble, and I told Time not to go after Wilson's point of view. Was Hadley picked by Rice to coordinate the counter story? I was wondering how Rice might be involved when I heard about the e-mail to Hadley. Now that it turns out that Rice was on the same plane as Bush and Powell and Andrew card and the State Department memo about Plame, her role in the whole story becomes very interesting.

[lateo]

12. Isn't he the second person to come forward and confirm this?

This is big because it shows that Bush KNEW and KNEW from the very beginning.

[HootieMcBoob]

14. Did Fleischer testify that Bush knew?

That's what's being talked about on Kos...
http://dailykos.com/story/2005/7/16/05433/8135

This report from Capital Hill Blue is interesting:

Bush Knew About Leak of CIA Operative's Name
By Staff and Wire Reports
Jun 3, 2004, 05:28

Witnesses told a federal grand jury President George W. Bush knew about, and took no action to stop, the release of a covert CIA operative's name to a journalist in an attempt to discredit her husband, a critic of administration policy in Iraq.

Their damning testimony has prompted Bush to contact an outside lawyer for legal advice because evidence increasingly points to his involvement in the leak of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame's name to syndicated columnist Robert Novak.

[Bumblebee]

15. The whole exchange on MSNBC made it very clear

how radioactive this whole thing is becoming for those politicians who are willing to blindly support Rove et al. It's Schiavo all over again but hugely multiplied because it is after all about many lives lost in Iraq, not just one. Expect "GOP nervous" stories in Sunday papers.

[KaryninMiami]

17. I heard it too- I stopped dead in my tracks to listen.

When Pat Buchanan stops repeating the party line then we know something big is going on. As for the press, maybe they have finally had enough. I believe that many of them have been repeatedly stifled by corporate ownership/partisan management and were prohibited from reporting on major stories (such as the election fraud) that they knew were important and wanted to cover. Therefore, many were waiting for an opportunity with wings-- which we finally appear to have here- to run with it and go after them with vengeance. I agree- this is indeed going to get good. But remember, Rove is an expert at making major stories disappear or spinning stories away from the truth. Let's just hope that Fitzgerald really has the goods here and that the truth is allowed to come out.

[DearAbby]

19. My Gawd...

:wow: This is huge! take cover cause it is about to BLOW!





Pass the :popcorn:

[Talismom]

92. And none too soon! I'm ready! LOL n/t

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[bunny planet]

66. If I correctly remember, Buchanan has always been against the Iraq war

and has been public about it before. You are right though, he doesn't usually do anything but shill and catapault blivet propaganda in reference to just about any other subject.

[txindy]

72. True, about Rove being about to spin things away

But this time a prosecutor is involved. This story isn't being tried in the court of public opinion. It doesn't really matter what the public thinks or even what the GOP thinks. It only matters what Patrick Fitzgerald thinks. And he already has a GOP governor under indictment, so he's certainly not afraid of getting to the truth! He's gone after the mob, after all, where business is not nearly as well-documented as this has been.

I'm with you - this is indeed going to get good!

:woohoo:

[yodermon]

78. I am more cynical.

If Bushco* becomes unprofitable, politically and/or monitarily (is there a difference?).. the Corporate Media Cartel will dump him/them. And the neocons.

It is possible that Bushco & the neocons are useful idiots who have served their purpose.

DO NOT trust the Corporate Media Cartel just because their reportage happens to be congruent with our views. It is fine in the short term, and if they bring bushco down, all well and good.. but the have far too much blood on their hands to be forgiven outright.

[Zorbuddha]

18. The press is out to square things with BushCo.

This is their first opening, and they are going hold on to it like a dog with a bone. Snarling.

Lots of skeletons in the closet, once the door is thrown wide open.

[bunny planet]

68. Notice however that little Snotte McClellan stopped giving WH briefings

the last two days. If he doesn't give one next week that means they are trying to shut down access for the 'new' WH press corps (the new ones who have located their testicles are who I referr to). I've always wondered why the press corps is so worried they'll lose 'access', they are just lied to continuously anyway, it's not really access. You could gain more 'access' by actually being a real journalist and doing some digging and investigative reporting. You can't lose what you never had in the first place (access).

[Zorbuddha]

126. They were embarrassed by the emasulation

and they want their balls back.

You make a good point:

I've always wondered why the press corps is so worried they'll lose 'access', they are just lied to continuously anyway, it's not really access. You could gain more 'access' by actually being a real journalist and doing some digging and investigative reporting. You can't lose what you never had in the first place (access).

This is going to get greasy.

[sellitman]

128. Snottie Scottie and Gannon have both been quiet.

Is their tryst about to be made public too?

[kskiska]

22. More on that exchange:

PAT BUCHANAN: It's very, very serious...There is a credibility problem for the press secretary...There is no legal problem for Rove...Reporters in Washington have a gleam in their eye and smiles on their faces, and there's a reason for it...Pat Fitzgerald hasn't been digging for two years and judges haven't been sending reporters to jail because they don't have anything...Everyone in town (Washington) feels there is something very, very serious and today's story in the NY Times where a memo was floating around aboard Air Force One about Wilson's trip to Africa indicates this could be very big stuff.

ALEX: Peter, what kind of big stuff could Pat be referring to?

PETER FENN: Alex, this is not a third-rate burglary. The focus had been on White House staff. Now, as Pat says, with this memo from the State Department about Wilson, about his wife, about the connection, it was brought onto Air Force One by Secretary Powell. I cannot imagine, Alex, that if he's going up and down the aisles with that memo as he was supposed to have been, that he did not discuss it with the President of the United States. I cannot imagine that there were not phone calls from Ari Fleischer, the Press Secretary who was on board, back to the White House about this. This was precisely at the time when Wilson was about to publish his article. Folks knew about his position about weapons of mass destruction. I have a sense that this may go all the way to the top.

I picked this up from a website I'd prefer not to name. I don't know which program it's from, but perhaps there's a reliable transcript available if anyone knows.

[crispini]

36. Which show was it on? MSNBC website will have transcripts

but usually not for 24 hours or so.

These are my favorite bits of that quote: "Pat Fitzgerald hasn't been digging for two years and judges haven't been sending reporters to jail because they don't have anything..."

Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee!

And: "Alex, this is not a third-rate burglary."

I'm just lovin' the "bigger than Watergate" meme that's getting out there. TASTY!

[Bumblebee]

48. It was just a morning newsy thing,

a no-name show. PB also said he knows judge Hogan (went to school with him) and trusts him.

[Jane Austin]

56. Those "No-Name" shows are usually called

"MSNBC Live" if I recall correctly.

[Bumblebee]

58. I'am sure you are right

[senseandsensibility]

39. I'm a little slow on the uptake this am

but what does it mean, rove has no legal problem? Just because others might be involved, and I don't doubt that they are, why is rove off the hook?

[writes2000]

23. The Memo is the smoking gun in SO many ways.

The folks on the plane cannot claim that they didn't read that memo when Fitzgerald has testimony that the memo was passed around.

It also shows that the administration didn't just trip into this info. They actively sought it out. Because they NEEDED to discredit Wilson who was too loud about the truth.

[GalleryGod]

24. If true. That's radioactive!

Oh! No! Not our "Role Model" Colin !

Violation of the Espionage Act????

[Occulus]

30. If true, they're ALL cooked.

Basted, baked, broiled, cooked.

Whangdepootenawah.

[tblue37]

44. Colin Powell

has always been all about cover-ups. He was, after all, the architect of the My Lai cover-up. The man is an opportunistic careerist who is concerned only with himself. His son Michael obviously learned his "values" at his father's knee.

I am always disgusted by the way so many liberals and Democrats get sucked into admiring John McCain and Colin Powell. They swallow the media BS about these two guys hook, line, and sinker.

[onecitizen]

107. Amen tblue37!!

They ARE after all, REPUBS!!! I always say: extend them a hand and pull back a bloody stump. DO NOT TRUST THEM. No matter how meek they seem on the exterior. They have the heart and soul of a REPUB!!

[bunny planet]

28. Rove probably wants Powell in the hot seat .

Maybe Powell will finally stop being the good soldier and start revealing what he knows about this crime syndicate he worked for.

He knows something about Bolton too. He should speak up, because they will have no problem laying the whole mess in his (or Tenet's) lap.

[WhiteTara]

33. he deserves all that will happen to him

for Mai Lai if nothing else. But seems like he wanted to be in with the cool kids so much that he didn't just cover up a massacre this time, he helped instigate one. May they all rot in hell

[bunny planet]

34. Oh yes I agree, but I just don't want him to end up being the fall guy and

the rest go scott free.

I don't think they'll get away with that but they will try.

[WhiteTara]

120. I don't want him to get off scott free either n/t

[bunny planet]

135. neither do I.

[Al-CIAda]

37. Do not think that the 'Powells' did not profit from this agrrangement in

their own way. AOL/TWX merger (Powell was on the BOD of AOL)
Powell's son heading the FCC.

(This move toward media consolidation took Ted Turner out as well, making the propaganda much easier to control.)

[WhiteTara]

119. yep and he should roast in hell for that too n/t

[jzodda]

35. awesome

I agree with the OP. This is the first time I have really sensed the press with that "gotcha" mentality. Its about time! Anything that obstructs this admin is a good thing imo.

And the fact that Rove is involved, the guy who tries to destroy people who gets in the way of his taliban agenda this is the best!

[Scout1071]

40. I don't believe that Cheney was on that flight.

Wouldn't make sense for the President and Vice President to be on the same flight. I don't think they do that for National Security reasons. But I do believe the "Iraq Task Force" (consisting of Mary Matalin, Karen Hughes, Condi, et al) were aboard.

They conferenced about it, decided to hit Wilson where it hurts and one of them called Cheney's office to get the smear in motion while they were in Africa. They were all in on it. And after returning from Africa, Rove and Company went about confirming and spreading like wildfire.

That's my best guess at this point!

PS - Colin Powell was so disgusted by the whole affair that he turns out ultimately to be the whistleblower....possibly working with Tenet. Both of whom seemed to have fallen on their sword for *. My gut instinct says they went about defending this country another, more discreet way.

[GreenPartyVoter]

45. But will Colin end up the bad guy here? Or Ari F? Both names have been

bandied about as potential fall guys so Rove et al don't take a hit.

[Scout1071]

47. I don't think Colin ends up the bad guy.

After all, he's reviewing a memo with others who have top security clearance (Condi and gang). Look at the video link provided on Kos and check out Powell's reaction as * is saying "we may never catch the leakers."

It's highly possible that Ari is involved as well. I just don't think it's coincidence that they all "resigned" around the same time. That was his last week on the job. Almost everyone I know acts just a little bit differently when they know they are in the final few days of a job. Maybe Ari's lips were flying a little looser in those last days.

[Native]

79. can't find the video link on Kos that you mention...

help!

[Scout1071]

84. Here you go.

It starts at about the 5:47 mark.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031007-2.v.html

[wookie294]

41. So, the entire White House will be impeached

President Dennis Hastert to be sworn into office in 2006. But he was probably part of the cabal, too, and will be impeached. So, according to the Constitution, that means the President Pro Tempore of the Senate will be the next president. His name is Sen. Ted Stevens (R-AK). Lovely. Another reich wing scumbag to replace Bush. LOL.

[NancyG]

43. Wasn't Gannon supposed to have seen a Memo?

Could this be it?

And I echo the concern that this administration will try to pin this on Powell.

And isn't it obvious to the newly-invigorated press corps that Rove's lawyer is matching a scenario to the known facts? That Rove is doing his typical reversing the logic - blame the victim - making the reporters the leaker rather than him? Match the phone call logs to a "story", no matter how improbable, as long as everyone agrees, he's off scott free.

It boggles the mind.

And, and, I used to enjoy Andrea Mitchell, but she's been squirming about this for a few weeks, and is taking the side of Miller. It's starting to make sense as I heard she is one of the reporters that was shopped the leak. She may be worried about being implicated somewhere.

Keep up the good fight.

[sellitman]

129. Welcome to DU NancyG.

I like your reasoning....keep posting!

[NancyG]

132. Thanks, sellitman.

I was wondering a bit if low-# posters were less credible in others' eyes. I have been reading a lot longer and more than I've been posting. I found you all right after the election, when I was devastated. I spend a few hours a day communing with this group and figured it was time for me to speak, like I do everyday wherever I go.

Nancy

[formercia]

51. Did the memo have a routing slip?

and if it did, who initialed it?

[Quixote1818]

55. Here is the article where Buchanan got that info from

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html?ex=1122177600&en=3181420d2890e49b&ei=5059&partner=AOL

[omega minimo]

59. "Terrorism is the price of Empire"

"If you want Empire, you gotta pay the price."

Pat Buchanan on McLaughlin Group 7-15-05

PB also said of terrorists:

"They're over here because we're over there."

[Bumblebee]

69. This is just in from the WP on Miller and possible criminal

contempt charges:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071502080.html

[Bumblebee]

73. Correction: it was in today's paper

I missed it, thought it just appeared.

[mom cat]

70. Bingo...Also see my post on this point:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1933233
BUSH HAD TO KNOW!

[jhain]

74. I know I shouldn't be...but....

I am blown away that Powell -with his actual military background ( not just playing with GI Joe dolls) would be a part of this.
He must have had gallons of the drink of choice...

[Tommymac]

81. Memo at 38,000 Feet = 18 minutes=Smoking Gun

All the way to the top....

I am stunned. This is the first real proof that has been put out there.

Can you say 18 minutes?

Somebody pinch me....

[RagAss]

89. The prosecution recalls Mr. Powell to the Stand, Your Honor

[RagAss]

90. The prosecution recalls Mr. Powell to the Stand, Your Honor

[oioioi]

91. Could Fleischer and Powell have cut a deal ????

The special prosecutor, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, has sought to determine how much Ari Fleischer, the White House spokesman at the time of the leak, knew about the memorandum. Lawyers involved in the case said Mr. Fitzgerald asked questions about Mr. Fleischer's role. Mr. Fleischer was with Mr. Bush and much of the senior White House staff in Africa when Mr. Powell, who was also with them, received the memorandum. A spokeswoman for Mr. Powell said he was out of the country and could not comment on the document. Mr. Fleischer said in an e-mail message this week that he would not comment on the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html?ei=5094&en=6d88216f8e1a7671&hp=&ex=1121572800&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

NOW I'm starting to believe.

[evermind]

105. Interestingly, the memo mentions Valerie Wilson, NOT Plame.

According to NYT: "The State Department memo referred to her as Valerie Wilson, according to the government official who reread the memo on Friday."

So that still leaves unresolved why Novak's story mentions Plame, not Wilson as the name. That seems to indicate an additional source who knew that Mrs Wilson was using her maiden name.

Because she went by the name Valerie Wilson in her normal life, there's no apparent reason to refer to her maiden name unless to draw attention to her undercover work. That seems to imply whoever gave the name 'Plame' to Novak was well aware of its significance, which in turn implies knowledge of her undercover status.

There's an interesting discussion on this aspect at: http://www.needlenose.com/node/view/1647

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

111. Back then a two second google would yield the name Plame.

Randi Rhodes claims she had done that. It appeared in several bios of Joseph Wilson as his being married to the former Valerie Plame. Her name wasn't a secret to the public, her profession was.

[evermind]

113. Sure, but why use "Plame" - she was known as Valerie Wilson

except in her covert work.

I'm not saying her maiden name was obscure or unknown, but since she went by the name of Mrs Valerie Wilson, how come she got reported as Plame? A little odd, isn't it?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

114. She was reported as Plame to out her. Plain and simple. According

to Randi Rhodes, to also out her whole operation.

[evermind]

115. Exactly. So *someone* knew "Plame" was significant ...

... which implies more knowledge than could be got from reading the memo mentioned in the OP.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

116. Of course someone knew Plame was significant. She worked

as Plame in a deep cover operation for 20 years. A company carefully being used to infiltrate Saudi oil interests and their connection with WMD proliferation. So by outting Plame and outting her front company, they stopped this important operation. If this is all true, it is a crime and act of treason of megolithic proportions.

Here's the scoop:

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/node/211

[evermind]

118. Yeah, I *know* all that! I'm just saying that you can't explain

the leak as simply based on the memo that this thread is about, or at least not easily, as the question remains where the name "Plame" was introduced into the process. See?

And you're misreading my subject, I think - not "Plame, the woman, was significant" as you seem to have it, but "the name 'Plame' was significant".

Not that I'm disputing the significance of the woman, as per the article you link to, you understand..

[AX10]

110. kick

[Catrina]

121. Who sent the memo

to Colin Powell? Tenet? Or, maybe Bolton? When was Bolton badgering people in the State Dept. for information on people? Condi is the one who ordered the State Dept. not to release the documents when Democrats asked for them at the Bolton nomination hearing.

Wow, things are beginning to come together, like a jigsaw puzzle! I wonder why the Dems asked for those papers? There was a rumor that it was Colin Powell who may have told them to do so. But no explanation why, at the time. The Dems were really persistent about that.

Then, I remember that Condi denied ordering the State Dept. not to release the papers, but was it Barbara Boxer who challenged her on that?

I thought it was all just politics, Bush wanting his way. But now it looks like Condi might have known that Bolton was told to get information on Valerie Wilson, and that would come out once his demands were known to Dems. We have to remember that while we didn't know what was happening with the investigation, Condi did.

There is also the coincidence of the death of Dr. Kelly in Britain, about three days after Joe Wilson's article, I think. And his email to Judith Miller ~ which she never mentioned in an article she wrote about him.

Everything is related, all these events, to covering up the fake, WMD 'evidence'. The IAEA also was smeared later by this WH. Because they too got in the way, when they announced that the Niger documents were forged ~

No wonder it's taken Fitzgerald so long to sort all this out. Judith Miller and Novak appear to be the plants in the press.


While the conspirators against Joe Wilson were flying towards Africa with a CIA memo sent to Colin Powell (at whose request?) with the info that she worked for the CIA, on the ground in Washington, Rove and Hadley were playing their part. It's possible that after a call from Airforce One, Rove was able to 'confirm' Novak's info about Plame, then he squelched the story Time was about to publish, knowing the smear was about to begin and he reported back to Hadley, just before he leaves on vacation, that the mission had been accomplished!

Those phone records should show calls to Hadley and Rove ~ or from Hadley, after he received Rove's email!!

And then there was Jeff Gannon ~ it would interesting now to check those WH CIA logs of his visits to the WH (the ones he didn't log in, or out) and compare them to this time frame. July 7-12! Because he told Joe Wilson about the CIA memo.

After being called in by the Prosecutor, he claimed he never saw it. That it was in an article in the WP. Probably he didn't see it. His boyfriend, either Rove or Hadley, may have told him about it after the call from Airforce One.

As for Colin Powell? Maybe there are some things even he found to be too treasonous to go along with, and finally had enough. He quit, Ari Fleischer quit, maybe they didn't want to get in any deeper when they realized what was going on.

[Stinky The Clown]

123. If true, that means Powell did the deed of revealing the agent's name

And that woudl make him the one guilty of revealing the NOC's name and subject to the law everyone is hoping gets Rove.

I smell a setup of Powell. What more do they want from him? He already gave them his formerly good name.

What a bunch of despicable rat bastards.

[Vinca]

137. Oh, geez, I hope it's not Powell, but I bet you're right.

He was persona non grata as soon as he opposed the war plan and now he's going to pay the real price. Please be wrong.

[sellitman]

130. Keep kicking this one folks.

Send it to Oberman too.

[mindfulNJ]

131. kick

:kick:

[crispini]

133. kick

this thread is good!

[faithnotgreed]

134. for everyone to see...

[Catherine Vincent]

136. kick!

[wallwriter]

138. So is he trying to skewer Colin Powell?

Buchanan figures he has survived one Repuke administration going down in flames, he might as well watch another one.

Scary thing about this: If they try to pin it on Powell, #) he's out of office, and #2) he'd be very easy to pardon--America (mostly) loves him.

Would they still be able to get the rest on perjury and obstruction of justice?