"That car is killing us. The boat is, too."

[Bouncy Ball]

Just said to me this afternoon by a neighbor. He owns a Suburban and a boat. I suggested trading in the Suburban and he said they owe too much on it and trade-ins on Suburbans suck right now. They tried and the dealership was VERY lukewarm on taking it, said he has too many Suburbans and the market is very soft for them right now. Hmmm, wonder why. (BTW, I thought it was funny he called a Suburban a "car.")

Then about the boat, I said "well, maybe don't take the boat out to the lake so much, save money on gas that way."

He said "Well, the thing is, we didn't buy it just to have it sit in the driveway."

I said "that's true, but hell, I'd at least take it out less often."

They use the Suburban a lot, though, and he said they are putting about $100 a week in gas in it. $400 a MONTH!!!!! Sheeee-it. Even with my horrible commute (that ends next week), I'm only spending about $160 per month. And soon, that will be knocked down to about $60 a month (again, when this commute ends).

I had a hard time having any sympathy for him. Some people have to LIVE on what he spends on that "car." And he said his payment on the Suburban is $400 a month. Crap. Almost $1000 a month on the VEHICLE.

FYI, he was a bush voter. Knowing that, I couldn't resist: I said "Heh, what irony! We've got two guys in the White House with all kinds of ties to the oil industry, and look at gas prices. Shit."

He laughed kind of a bitter, yeah-but-that's-not-really-funny laugh and said "Well, that's one thing I'll say--I like gas prices under Democrats a hell of a lot more."

I told him I like EVERYTHING under Democrats a hell of a lot more.

So, are people having a hard time even getting rid of some of the really big SUVs?

[XanaDUer]

1. My heavily red neighborhood

has seen a lot of big SUVs out in the front yard for sale now.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Very interesting

So this shows me that the economy isn't doing quite as well eh? People have their houses up for sale in my neighborhood and have for a while now.

[XanaDUer]

55. Since this is a red-red area (Jacksonville FL)

things were sucky here even before * came into office. The local Repukes bragged about "delivering" the area to * in 2004.

Anywho-typical Republican-controlled area: Very few good white-collar jobs, part-time jobs with no benefits or much else, roads falling apart, tons of money missing from a bond issue for improvements (which were to go to the public library system and they Republican mayor just announced due to shortfalls he will have to "cut services." Since there are no services, what can he cut?), have to drive miles and miles to get where you need to go with no good rapid transit, Poor and homeless wandering around the ratty downtown. The gas prices are killing the SUV drivers too, I guess.

So, * has not helped them here, but many still support him. Oh well. Cannot help the intractably stupid.

[ComerPerro]

2. At least he admits it. I know many conservatives

who say that gas is just due to supply and demand, as well as inflation.

They say, "it has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans. Don't forget that the prices were during the nineties".

But these are people who bitched about the prices back then, and directly blamed Clinton.

And, they think that a doubling in prices over four years is acceptable?

[XemaSab]

13. If gas is a function of supply and demand

then the people who drive huge SUV's drive the prices up for everyone else.

[ComerPerro]

15. not that they give a shit

[XemaSab]

22. Economics is the ALMIGHTY GOD

except when it tells them inconvenient truths... sort of like xtianity, no?

[uppityperson]

16. Gas costs a lot more because the dems want to increase gas taxes

see? That's why gas costs more. Because we liberal Democrats want to increase gas taxes, so that makes it cost more not. I am not making this statement up either.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. So because we supposedly WANT to do something, that

magically makes gas prices go up?

WOW WHAT POWER WE HAVE!!!

So if we WANT to control the White House, we just.....oh wait. Yeah, I think that premise is false.

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

25. The best I could do was stand, stunned, and blink my eyes once.

sometimes I must really restrain myself.

[nolabels]

61. How about starting with taxing the OIL corporations record profits?

The most simple way to end the whole corporation juggernaut is to raise import / export taxes to levels that would dictate who is calling the shots. The alternative is world coporate governance run by capital which we mostly have now.

[LSK]

71. Republican Congress and President for how long???

Are they that stupid??? So why hasn't their Republican leaders repealed all the gas taxes yet?? Democrats dont have power right now. Hello??? Anything in their heads besides air????

[Carla in Ca]

28. Sounds like my Dad

He uses the 'peaks and valleys' excuse for everything wrong with the country right now. When Clinton was in office, he used it for everything good.

[Bouncy Ball]

29. How convenient!

:rofl:

[Carla in Ca]

30. That is what I say! LOL!

He just gives me a smile and we change the subject.

[knowbody0]

3. you're good

you little mental vampire!

[acmejack]

4. They're giving them away.

Check out the used car ads...

[Bouncy Ball]

6. See, I hadn't really heard anything about that.

But then I'd rather peel off all my toenails than buy a Suburban or something equally big, so I wouldn't really know anyway.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Are they really???

Giving cars AWAY? As in for free????

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. If they are, I want one.

:evilgrin:

[benburch]

5. Why do you think the Detroit automakers are on life support?

They invested heavily in SUVs and now they are a drug on the market.

[Bouncy Ball]

9. Mmm, I hadn't thought about Detroit.

Are they still making cars there?

I know the HUGE GM plant in Arlington, Texas is laying off tons of people. It's pretty sad for those employees. And what's worse is a lot of them are Democrats, good people.

:-(

[fujiyama]

89. SUVs

were pretty much the lifeline for auto companies. People were gobbling those damn things up.

Too bad, Detroit (and I live here) is very slow to progress. They fight regulations for a long time, spending millions on politicians (including good politicians like Conyers), fighting CAFE standards and unfortunately even those good pols do their bidding (Conyers voted against increased CAFE standards as did Levin, who I like on other issues).

I wish they'd realize it'd be smarter to spend that money on actual R and D. It's something they have yet to realize, unlike the Japanese and European car makers.

[Career Prole]

12. "now they are a drug on the market"

Freudian slip? :D

[benburch]

20. Old idiom

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?drug

See definition #2

[Career Prole]

23. Hey, cool!

Learn somethin' new every day! I thought perhaps you'd intended "drag", as in "energy continues to be a drag on the market".

Thanks!

[benburch]

26. I aim to educate!

:)

I am very fond of word of the day type features...

[muriel_volestrangler]

62. And you've educated me too! Thanks!

I've always said "drag", but "drug" does seem to have the historical backup.

A discussion of the phrase, with some historical context from the Oxford English Dictionary: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/10/messages/776.html

[Gormy Cuss]

83. why don't the Detroit folks spy on the Japanese automakers?

Detroit repeatedly gets caught short by changing preferences in the marketplace, while Toyota in particular seems to read the market more consistently. Just asking.

[Dave Reynolds]

7. Yeah, the market sucks right now.

I don't have a link, but I did read something on-line that said dealers are sending big SUVs right off to auction as they are tending to sit on their lots unsold.

[devilgrrl]

8. You know what I think?

Who gives a rats ass... :nopity:

[Bouncy Ball]

10. What do you mean?

To my post? Or to my neighbor?

[devilgrrl]

14. People who bought those silly vehicles in general.

Sorry, my computer at work is down, so I'm in a punchy today. Nothing personal.

[Ilsa]

11. So are the dealerships.

"Employee discounts" and all. Huge discounts on SUV's. My husband's Yukon is ten years old now, but still in excellent condition. It's a guzzler because it simply doesn't run as well. But we don't complain. We don't have long commutes, so it isn't much more for us. It would be if he were driving 50+ miles a day.

I wanted a hybrid a few years ago, and he said no, you'll get killed by an SUV, and nearly everyone drives one (or a large pickup or hummer) around here. A motorcyclist was killed inside the city limits in a slower traffic zone yesterday by an SUV. Heartbreaking.

I also suggested that i start riding a bicycle more for my shorter trips. He said, "No, you really don't like them (true) and this city is NOT pedestrian-friendly. You'll be killed."

You handled your neighbor well, BTW.

[Lisa]

17. I've actually started seeing "low on gas" scrawled on cars for sale

You know, when people park cars out front with a sign on them, in the hopes of selling them.

I can't recall the last time I saw that kind of attention to gas mileage!

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Don't you remember

what Cheney said about a president and high gas prices?

[hatrack]

50. Are you sure that's not a warning to prospective buyers?

As in, "There's not much fuel in the tank"? :evilgrin:

[Lisa]

81. well, the junker I saw last week was probably worth less than a full tank!

Let's hope it doesn't get to the point where people are buying up used cars just so they can siphon out the gasoline and motor oil!

[gratuitous]

18. "I didn't buy the boat to have it just sit in the driveway"

Ah, the All-American compulsion toward over-consumption, even when you can't afford it anymore. Must keep up appearances by all means, even if it means spending oneself into bankruptcy.

How did our society get this fucked up?

[barb162]

36. keeping up with the Joneses is the rule of law

Around here I suspect the neighbors will keep their SUVs for a long time. I think that will be the new thing...if you don't have to trade it in it is a sign you are well off.

[elehhhhna]

73. " I didn't buy that driveway so it could sit there boatless! ...

I have neighbors (who don't give a rip, btw) that I have to keep up with. "

[bicentennial_baby]

19. My fiancee's parents have a new Suburban

but, they also have a 180 acre farm and a lot of goats and horses to tow around...

[Submariner]

24. I Luv my '95 Tahoe

cuz it's very mechanically sound and PAID for. I don't think I would like $600/month car payments.

[dweller]

27. ahh....yardart Americana...

i predict there will be SUVs, speedboats, jetskis, travel trailers and the like, soon parked permanently about the finest neighborhoods long after the 'for sale' signs have faded or blown away.

and i don't expect they'll ever be a hot item on Antiques Roadshow.
dp

[LiberallyInclined]

31. if you add in Insurance and incidentals-

things like oil, anti-freeze, brakes, wipers, etc...he's definitely up over $1000.00/month on the Sub-urban.

[Glenda]

32. did your neighbor say how many MPGs he gets?

"They use the Suburban a lot, though, and he said they are putting about $100 a week in gas in it. $400 a MONTH!!!!! "

This made me look at my finance, and this year I spent $46/mo on gas. The exception was the month I went on vacation and drove halfway across the country and spent $250 that month. I can't even imagine spending $400!

[lectrobyte]

41. $100 / wk sounds like 40 gallons or so to me. And even if they're

only getting 15 mpg (just guessing -- that seems low, even for SUVs), that's still 600 miles. 2400 miles per month? 30,000 miles a year? Seems a tad unbelievable, but possible I guess. I drive less than half that, and my old car still gets in the high 20's, I think I probably spend $100 a month on gas, if that... On the bright side, at 30K miles per year, they won't be driving it for too many more years.

[Bouncy Ball]

42. He drives a monster commute five days a week with it.

And they drive it on the weekends to their camp site, a state park pretty far from here. They also take it to Florida in the summer (we live in Texas).

[lectrobyte]

43. I never understood something like a Suburban as a commuter

car. No fun to drive, hard to park etc., aside from the wastefulness. Texas. But I understand about Suburbans in Texas. When I visit Austin, I'm amazed at the number of them I see there, even people who barely have a driveway that will hold one have one out front.

[kath]

58. 15 mpg is overly optimistic - probably more like 10-12. 10 or less if

he's towing the boat.

[Tsiyu]

77. having been a Suburban owner

( six kids and a horse farm) I can promise you, that figure is low. Mine had a 40 gallon tank and could go 350 miles on that. At $2.09 a gallon around here that is over $80 a fillup. If you have a 100 mile round trip commute, that's 500 miles a week and $100 a week is totally believable.

I would buy another in a heartbeat just to haul hay trailers and horses( not for extended driving) but I'll hang on to the Honda and the Sebring for now.

[DemoTex]

33. My answer: A 4-cyl Subaru and a roof-top kayak.

In fact, I own two Folbots so that I can duffle-bag them on longer trips and not have to take the milage penalty from the drag of the boats on the roof.

[elehhhhna]

74. That red one's purty.

[B Calm]

34. Was your neighbor one of those Bush voters that thought voting

for an oil president would mean cheap gas....??

[barb162]

35. My girlfriend bought this enormous new Durango about 2 or 3 yrs. ago

and she hardly drives it anymore because of the gas prices. She paid about 28000+ for it too so it sits there rotting and devaluing away on her driveway. She drives a smaller car almost everywhere. I think the behemoth gets about 12mpg

[Logansquare]

38. Gawd, a car rental agency tried to "upgrade" me to a Durango

from a full-size coupe, and I said NO WAY. I absolutely refused to accept it. This was in Kansas City, and the rental lot was full of Durangos.

[grace0418]

69. Yeah, Enterprise tried to "do me a favor" by upgrading me

to some planet-mobile or another because the vehicle type I'd reserved wasn't available. They were incredulous that I wouldn't accept one. I told them that I think they're irresponsible vehicles and I would never drive one, even a rental. They eventually had to drive me to another location to get a regular car.

[yardwork]

37. Suggest that your neighbor google "sunk cost"

The money he spent on the boat is gone for good. He's throwing more money away by using the boat. Using it isn't going to magically restore his investment. In other words, if he were a logical thinker he would realize he should quit using the boat now, before he gets even further behind.

Then again, since he voted for chimpy, he's obviously not a logical thinker.

[Bouncy Ball]

39. LMAO!!!

No, obviously not. Though I've caught him bitching about the chimp more often than not nowdays (I see him at the community mail boxes from time to time).

[benburch]

40. But if it really WERE a "sunk cost"

then his insurance would pay off! :evilgrin:

[onager]

44. The Suburban owners could...

...possibly recoup some of their money, after they make a few minor modifications.

And o' course, it's also a neat visual metaphor...

[elehhhhna]

76. OR: Up-armor and donate to the War Effort!

[elehhhhna]

75. Hey at least he can catch fish and put some food on his family.

[hatrack]

48. Well, at the risk of sounding all judgemental and superior . . .

Your neighbor is a dumbass. No, not a flaming obnoxious sociopath, just a garden-variety dumbass.

Still, if even garden-variety dumbasses can begin to think for themselves, there's still hope.

[Bouncy Ball]

49. Very true!

:toast:

[CAG]

51. I just laugh now when I see the SUV/support the troops sticker combos

How ignorant, how uncaring.

I've decided that repubs are just either ignorant, uncaring, or some mixture in between.

I know you might like your neighbor, but, I'm sorry, he deserves his own misery.

[Bouncy Ball]

52. I don't, really.

Like him, that is. I'm just not rude when I see him. :shrug:

He's pretty much a dumb ass, a poster above you nailed him.

[Glenda]

63. I've noticed that...

Most of the yellow ribbons are on the larger vehicles. As if, "Support our troops, we'd like them to secure oil for us."

[Bravo411]

53. Diesels are the way to go.

I had a big suburban for a while, then the injection pump went out and I couldn't afford to fix it, so it's sitting in the back yard rusting now. It had a 6.2 liter Detroit Diesel and I got better than 20+mpg. With a gas engine, you're lucky if you can get 12mpg.

I whish I could afford to get it fixed. I'd convert it to bio-diesel which you can make youself.

[B3Nut]

56. Can't you find a pump from a scrapyard?

Might be able to score a deal and get that puppy running again. The only way I'd have a vehicle that big is with a diesel. Heck, I'd love a small diesel Jetta wagon, but I can't afford a new car right now. I'm nursing my trusty Escort ZX2 along, and my wife's little Neon is still holding together. She'd like an SUV for dog adoption events, but they're just so damned wasteful and thirsty. A Honda CR-V I could go for though...pretty roomy, sharp looking, and get around 30mpg, like our small cars.

TP

[MadHound]

59. I hear you

Going to be needing a new truck in a few years, and the next truck is going to be a diesel. Then I can start making my own biodiesel for quite cheap, get good gas mileage, and very little pollutants out the exhaust pipes. My next tractor is going to be diesel for the same reason.

My wife's next car is either going to be a diesel, or a hybrid. Got to kick this oil addiction, one person at a time.

[Bravo411]

86. The pump isn't that expensive...

But you need somebody with the right tools and knowledge to put it in or else the enginge won't run. It's like an all-in-one carborator/timing system, plus they're high-presure lines. And it's been sitting for so long that it would take even more money to get it going. If I ever won the lotto though, I'd buy an old Hummer and put my tranny and engine in it, and have the bio conversion done at the same time. Ahhh, if only.

[Scout1071]

54. I got rid of mine last September. Just in the nick of time.

[sadiesworld]

57. The gas prices are having an effect on boating in

our area. My husband and I sail (small, used sailboat we purchased for a couple thou) on the Ohio River, and the reduction in the number of power boats on the river this summer has been amazing. We're thrilled!

[Blue Diadem]

65. I haven't been out to the lake yet, but I'm betting it has the same

effect there too. The news had a blip a few weeks ago about the cost of running to Put in Bay..something like $400 for fuel..I didn't hear how big the boat was or which marina but it had to be the Toledo area.

I'm wondering if more boats are docked and people are using them as docked get-a-ways instead of taking them out.

By the way..I bet it is much nicer to sail without all the power boats! It can get kinda crazy when there's alot of them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

64. All those Suburbans will be good for living in when the

economy REALLY crashes in on the exurban trendoids. :evilgrin:

[Gormy Cuss]

84. I had a dream recently about designing "double wide" Suburban housing

You park them end to end with one hatch open,one hatch removed to form a wall under the remaining hatch, and on the fianl open face you install a door. Installing plumbing and a skirt and it's a nifty one room shelter.

:freak:

[SkipNewarkDE]

66. Republicans, Gas Prices and Trickling Down

I commute 60 miles each way to work, and drive a Jeep Wrangler. I need this vehicle because I have some horses and work on the farm with it. It doesn't get the BEST gas mileage.

I needed to buy this car because the commute killed my last car. So get this... I am paying around $500.00 a month for gas, $500 car payment, and another $250 a month on car insurance. All of this JUST to get me to work.

My two horses are like my kids and my entire life outside of my job. I have trimmed and trimmed and trimmed my budget with the horses, and the money I save is getting thrown into everything else, ie. gas, fuel, food, etc. And the prices just keep going up.

I have worked for my company for about two and a half years. It is owned by a couple of Escalade driving Republicans, who have a bust of George Bush the elder sitting in the entrance of the company, along with a photograph with him. They love all things red. Last year they didn't give us our regular Christmas bonuses, saying when our new product came out they would do something for us. We also didn't get the matching contribution to our 401K that was contractually promised - we were told that they would make that contribution this year, prior to the deadline. Well April 15 has come and gone.

Most of us "little people" haven't had raises in many years... one woman who has been here longer hasn't had raises in FIVE.

We are told that the company has to tighten its budget, everyone has to make sacrifices.

So what did the Escalade-driving owners do last year, shortly after the time we were being denied any kind increase in compensation or bonus? Bought a ranch in Florida, in addition to the other two houses they own.

What irks the f-ck out of me about this is that the one owner had the balls to poo-poo a competitor for being "rotten" to their employees by cutting their vacation because they were having money issues, and then turning around and buying a hummer. As she relayed this story, I looked at her, and wanted to scream: "HOW THE HELL IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN GOING OUT AND BUYING A FARM?!?!?!?"

When I complain about the financial situation, they tell me I am "horse poor." So I produced some charts and graphs showing that I am paying over twice as much in gas as I did two years ago. I should do the same for groceries and such.

[lectrobyte]

70. I'm not sure I really blame the Republicans for the price of gas.

After all, peak oil (to me at least) seems like the issue of the century. I do blame the republicans, though, for doing nothing about it. In the wake of 9/11, I think a national goal of energy independence should have been made a priority. Or at least some sort of energy conservation standards. Anyway, that aside, as oil production levels out and demand continues to increase, prices seem like they can only continue to rise. Maybe you'll be riding those horses to work one day. I'm only half kidding.

[SkipNewarkDE]

72. I don't blame them for the price of gas, per se

I am more outraged at the call to sacrifice in our company, yet the only people who are sacrificing are the worker bees. For the "haves" it is business as usual.

[LSK]

78. dont you think if Gore had won, we'd be on a much better path??

Especially considering peak oil is near. So yeah, I definately blame the Republicans.

[lectrobyte]

80. Yes, in my post, I said I blamed the Repubs for doing nothing about peak

oil. The point I was trying to get at is that gas is going to be expensive no matter what. Demand is increasing world-wide, and production is starting to level off. I'm more worried about where we are going to be 5 or 10 years down the road. That's the biggest difference I think Gore would have made.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. And the trip down the wrong path began with

the alleged "greatest American ever," Ronald Reagan.

But uninformed, selfish people voted out the guy who was at least thinking about these questions and voted in the "what, me worry?" man.

[LeahD]

90. $250/mo. on auto insurance??? Is that correct? n/t

[grace0418]

67. All I can say is HA-Fucking-HA

I'm sorry to seem cold, but I just don't have an ounce of sympathy for anyone who owns a planet-mobile, aside from those who live in remote areas requiring a 4WD truck. They had ample evidence that these "cars" were unsafe, unwieldy gas-guzzlers and they bought them anyway so the world could see that they were wealthy enough to afford all that gas PLUS a boat. Even though most of the time they're occupied by one person (on a cell phone), a dog, and maybe a baby, taking up a lane-and-a-half on paved roads and two parking spaces at the grocery. Well good for them. Now that they know the rest of the world isn't impressed, they'll just have to live with their stupid, selfish, vain decision. Maybe they can move into them when the gas gets as expensive as their mortgage payment.

[Jackpine Radical]

68. A modest suggestion...

Couldn't the Suburbans be bought up cheap and converted into shelters for the homeless?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. See my post #64

Great minds run in the same channels. :-)

[Arugula Latte]

79. You would have thought U.S. carmakers would've learned

their lesson in the late 70s, early 80s ... remember the Japanese carmakers kicking our asses, the gas crisis, Chrysler being bailed out, Lee Iacocca trying to turn things around, etc. etc. Well, they didn't learn a damn thing. I'm sorry for the workers but this serves the big boys right.

[Algomas]

87. Socialism for the rich...Free Market capitalism for the poor.

[fujiyama]

88. Haha great story

It's certainly difficult sympathizing with someone spending 30-40k on a vehicle they know will give very shitty gas mileage. After all, it's posated on the sticker when you buy the damn thing. Those things generally give what 10-15 miles/gallon AT THE MOST?

Hey if you can afford that much money on a vehicle, make sure you know how much it takes to maintain it. After all, many luxury class vehicles require higher grade fuel and it's made clear as well.