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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:03 AM
Original message
Mother shut boy in basement to protect him from pit bull
Mother shut boy in basement to protect him from pit bull
12-year-old was killed by family dog; owner sees loss as tragic accident but defends breed as making good pets
C.W. Nevius and Cecilia M. Vega, Chronicle Staff Writers

Sunday, June 12, 2005


Hours before being mauled to death by the family pit bull, 12-year-old Nicholas Faibish had been told to stay in the basement separated from the dogs, said his distraught mother, Maureen Faibish, who called The Chronicle on Saturday, trying to make sense of what she called a "freak accident.''

"I put him down there, with a shovel on the door,'' said Faibish, who had left the boy alone with the dogs on June 3 to run some errands. "He had a bunch of food. And I told him, 'Stay down there until I come back.' Typical Nicky, he wouldn't listen to me.''

Faibish said she was concerned that the male pit bull, Rex, was acting possessive because the female, Ella, was in heat. Apparently, Nicholas found a way to get the door open and come upstairs. At that point Faibish believes he walked in while the dogs were mating and was attacked by Rex.

"It was Rex, I know it in my heart,'' Faibish said. "My younger dog (Ella) was in heat and anyone who came near her, Rex saw as a threat. He may have been trying to mate. It was a freak accident. It was just the heat of the moment.''

Faibish felt compelled to call The Chronicle, she said, because she was upset by comments in a Saturday column that disparaged family members who own pit bulls.


more...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/0...


:wtf:

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Momgonepostal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. It would have been a freak accident if he'd been killed by a...
hampster. Or a toy poodle.

Pit bulls are bred to be killers. No one should be surprised when they actually kill.

That poor boy.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. note to mrs. fabish
your "explanation" isn't going to gain you much sympathy.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Yes, it's really damning. Shows that she knew the dogs were dangerous.
She's digging herself a nice hole. Hope she stays there for a long time, and that her children are given a safe home where they are valued above the family pet.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
54. Digging deeper...
yup. Ironic, then, that she used a shovel to try to keep the kid downstairs.

Sid
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zapp Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. These Dogs are completely unpredictable
And they should not be pets.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Good God
Something was very wrong in this household. Why were the DOGS not locked in the basement to protect the CHILD?

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I agree
It should've been the other way around. Plus the dogs couldn't reach the door handle and open it and leave. I would've done that especially when they were being like that. :mad:
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zapp Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. I just read the whole story
and it almost sounds like she set the boy up.

"sent the YOUNGER son alone to the store"

"sister was on a picnic"

"I told him, but Nicky didn't listen as usual"

This is tragic and the woman should be charged with child endangerment, along with involuntary manslaughter.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I agree with you completely. That she would admit to shutting her kid in
the basement "with plenty of food" (how the fuck long was she planning on running "errands"???!), is enough to show that she is completely negligent.

:cry:

Why do people like this even have children? Why? :cry:
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. plenty of food?
:wow:
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #45
71. Yeah.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 09:24 AM by yella_dawg
And a bucket to pee in. :sarcasm:

This woman had to have set this up to collect insurance or something. This is just too bizarre to believe.

She locked her kid in the basement cuz the dogs were twitchy. She'd have to be crazy as hell to not realize how unbelievably insane that sounds.


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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #71
84. "he must have walked in when they were mating"
oh, so she had an idea about how the dog would react should that happen. interesting.

i agree with you, it is too bizarre. that little quote that basically says "that was my son, never listening" is one of the most callous fucking things I have ever read. well, that and the "God called him home" thing. No, bitch, God didnt call him home your dog fucking ate him.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. She needs to have her kids taken away
She is clearly an unfit parent.
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FourStarDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
44. Exactly, if she knew he might not listen, why did she take that chance?
The woman sounds like the death of her son means less than what people will think about pit bulls. She should be brought up on charges for child endangerment and negligent homicide.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
60. Jail for her, if there's any justice.
Disparaging her child after his horrible, painful death??

Letting humping, dangerous animals have free reign in a house where there are children??

This woman is a menace.
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Suich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around this one.
To say "It's Nicky's time to go....." is nuts. I hope they throw the book at her.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. WTF
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 12:14 AM by WildEyedLiberal
She's MORE concerned with her dogs' reputation than with her DEAD SON?

God damn.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Sounds familiar. Remember the woman killed by the two dogs in SF?
They disparaged the victim and did their best to defend the killer dogs.

So sick, so sad.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. eerily familiar
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 12:44 AM by noiretblu
and recall the psycho attorney the defendants hired? sure does seem like a repeat :puke:
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Sure does. Completely unrepentant, totally identified with the dogs, but
not with the victim. Oh, and that BS about "It was Nicky's time to go".

Are we dealing with a fundy here, to boot?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. could be...i remember people really picked up on that comment
and as others have noted: it would have made more sense to put the dogs in the basement instead of the child. something is terribly wrong with this family.
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lolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. It was her fault
She was wearing some sort of perfume the dogs didn't like. :eyes:
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Oh yeah, that's right. Oh well, I must have been mistaken. Poor dogs.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 12:50 AM by mgdecombe
:mad:

And it was the boy's fault because he caught them mating.

Just goes to show you, you should always be on the lookout for offending vicious animals, even in your own home.

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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
46. yes, those dogs were Presa Canarios
"pit bulls on steroids" as they are often called
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
65. Weren't the dogs who killed that woman in SF in 2001, owned
by white supremacists who said they did it because she was gay? I seem to recall a story along those lines....
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Hey, Maureen Faibish:
If you were so concerned about keeping the kids safe from your dogs, why didn't you get rid of the fucking dogs?!?!

I swear, some people should NEVER reproduce.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. The woman is a lunatic. Look what she says here
"They made it sound like we put our kids in a war zone,'' Faibish said in a phone conversation. "That's not true. My kids got along great with (the dogs). We were never seeing any kind of violent tendencies.''

Ok, so why did you feel compelled to lock your son in the basement for hours, rather than leave him safely with the nice widdle puppies?

God, please throw the book at her. She shows NO remorse, and BLAMES the child. ("Didn't listen to me".)

There is a special place in hell for this woman.

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LuPeRcALiO Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. does this lady run the Bates Motel
or what?
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
15. That abusive 'mother' shouldn't have been allowed to breed.
Put her son in the basement with a shovel up against the door?!?!?

I hope her other children are in protective custody, with her parental rights to be terminated. The prosecutor needs to file a slew of charges against this 'mother'... the most severe charges of child abuse, as well as false imprisonment, homicide, and anything and everything else they can come up with.

Her precious little boy deserved a mother who loved and protected him. 'Freak accident' my ass.
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thrift_store_angel Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. A Shovel up against the door?
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 01:14 AM by thrift_store_angel
What if there had been a fire? (although I guess the end result is the same, but that should have been at least something she would have thought about since apparently it didn't cross her mind that the dogs might kill him, only that he needed to be "protected" from them(?)) And how old are children supposed to be before you leave them at home alone in the first place?
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Very good point.
I have a feeling there will be much more to this story.

I hope that those children are put in a safe environment immediately.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. According to her, the dogs weren't dangerous and slept with the kids
... but she locked her son in the basement to protect him from these same dogs?!?!? One would wonder whether she locked her son in the basement & left the dogs upstairs to keep him from escaping.

A parent can legally leave a competent 12-yr-old child home alone. But, of course, no parent (or any caregiver) can legally lock a child in the basement or anywhere else. This is child abuse & false imprisonment, and people who commit such abuse typically get arrested, sent to prison, and have their children taken into protective custody. A death resulting from such abuse is homicide. This 'mother' needs to be arrested, tried, convicted and locked away in prison... and never have another opportunity to get pregnant again.

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Dervill Crow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
89. Fundy for sure.
The dogs might be perfectly wonderful when the female is not in heat. My female pit bull gets aggressive with a particular type of rope pull toy. So you know what? We took it away from her! How hard is that?

So her male pit gets aggressive when the female is in heat? She definitely sounds like a fundy. It would be a sin to spay and neuter the dogs; it would be interfering with God's will.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
88. The possibility of a fire was my first thought.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 10:41 AM by Lone_Star_Dem
A parent should never, under any circumstances, lock their child in room and leave the home.

This woman acted in a fashion that put the child in the path of many different potential harms.

The way she was speaking about her dogs in the article left me with the impression that they were regarded as the victims in her mind, not the poor little boy (her son!) who was killed.

Hopefully, after she's admitted this, they will remove the rest of the children from the home before any harm comes to them.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
23. This woman is an idiot
I realize she is grieving but would someone please do her a favor and keep her away from the media?

Last week, she said God had a plan and it was Nicky's time to go. Now she admits locking her kid in the basement?

It is really getting hard to feel sorry for her.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I hope she keeps talking. And that the police use the information
to throw the book at her and remove the rest of the children from the home. Read the whole article. She is not only an idiot. She is a lunatic.

"The female dog, Ella, was trained to lick makeup off her face." WTF?

Whatever happened to Pond's Cold Cream?!!

There is a very unhealthy attachment to those dogs, and very little attachment to her own children.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. The woman is an absolute fucking arsehole...
Plus a nutter to boot...

Violet...
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Lights_Out Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. The Notorious Pit Bull Breed
Yes, pit bulls may be possessive of their mate, but that is really to say about any other breed, any species actually. I have owned several Bullies in my lifetime, never once was I attacked or bitten in any way but in game. What this mother should have done was sent this Rex to the pound while the dog was in heat, which would be merely a few weeks. I am truly apologetic for the families' loss, but i do not believe that we need to get rid of a whole breed for the sake of our children. Be a bit more responsible with your family, no matter what the species.
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Joj Bush Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Why bother?
Or people could just stick with dogs that don't need to be raised properly to not kill people, and don't need to be sent away during specific times when they're more likely to kill people.

There's nothing inherently valuable about a breed that was created specifically for killing, even if they can be raised not to do so (how do you propse we make sure EVERYONE raises them properly?). The world was doing fine before man created this breed, and would be better off without them now too. I'm sure their many victims would agree.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. If their victims are still alive to agree
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Lights_Out Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Here's the thing
Pit bulls were not made for killing. They were bred to herd cows. Notice the name: Pit Bull. That's why the have the short snouts and lockable jaws. Please do not contradict me without the proper information.
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Joj Bush Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Ah, but you're wrong.
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 03:35 AM by Joj Bush
What you're talking about are not pit bulls, those are early bulldogs. If you're going to analyze the name for me why ignore the obvious first word, "pit" as in "fighting pit," for which PIT bulls were bred.
http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/pitbull_histor...

And that last sentence of yours is ridiculous.
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Lights_Out Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. My apologies for being rash
But truly, that is what all bullies were bred for. Pits merely evolved away from the American Bulldogs or Staffordshire Terriers. It is similar to they way we evolved alongside other primates and not FROM them. Sorry again.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. evolved?
there's a big difference between "evolved" and "bred for", it's not like humans just stumbled across a whole pack of pit bulls in the forest.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Will you contradict the chief of trauma surgery at Children's Hospital
... Oakland, regarding injuries resulting from pit bull attacks?

Dr. James Betts, chief of trauma surgery at Children's Hospital Oakland, operated on Shawn Jones, who was 10 when three pit bulls dragged him from his bike in Richmond and mauled him four years ago this month. He's seen cases where a single, crushing bite from a pit bull has "taken out the whole side of the face.'' Betts says the hospital treats 100 bite cases each year, and he's passionate about the perils of pit bulls.

"I think,'' Betts says, "if you have a dog like that in your house, you are recklessly endangering your family. For people to say, 'That is not going to happen to me' is to pretty much put the blinders on.''

Betts says a pit bull can exert as much as 1,200 pounds per square inch of pressure with its jaws, while that of a German shepherd is more like 200.

"That kind of grip,'' Betts says, "is enough to fracture your femur, the largest bone in your body.''

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic...

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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. tell it to that bad little Nicky, who's time it was to go
i know, i know, their just big cuddly misunderstood fur balls.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. Your ignorance on pit bulls is stunning, yet not suprisning
Given that it seem you've gotten your information from the sensationalist media, rather than the experts, people who own pit bulls, people who've raised pit bulls.

This one quote is what gives you away: "Or people could just stick with dogs that don't need to be raised properly to not kill people, and don't need to be sent away during specific times when they're more likely to kill people."

Pit bulls DON'T need to be raised properly to not kill people, nor does a normal pit need to be sent away during specific times.

In order for an owner to create a vicious human killing pit, the pit has to be the vicitim of abuse and negelet. You have to beat the dog, scream, yelll and terrify the dog, offer up "bait " to the dog, attack the dog, etc.etc. The dog isn't a natural born killing machine, they have to be trained that way.

A pit who hasn't been subjected to this out of the normal, over the top abuse is a kind and gentle animal. In fact, during the first half of the twentieth century, pits were the most recommended breed to be around children, and we have no records of the many vicious pit attacks that resulted from this recommendation now do we?

I have owned a few pits in my life, and I've found them to be a joy. They're training and treatment was consistent with how I train and treat any other dog under my care, lots of love, plenty of socialization, disipline and treats. And these pits(along with my other dogs) have all turned out to be kind, gentle loving and lovable dogs. They are good with kids, and will let children play rather rough with them, pulling tail, ears, etc. with no more complaint than a look of long suffering on their face.

It seems that this woman had deliberately trained at least one vicious animal, and is being hesitant about admitting it. This could happen with any dog breed. Please don't generalize her stupidity as the condition of a whole breed, for you would be mistaken.

You wish to know about pit bulls, go out and get a pup, eight weeks old. Raise it how you would raise any other dog, and see how you're rewarded with a fine, normal animal.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. yes, pits are kind, nurturing, lovable, soothing, loyal gentle teddy bears
we believe you already.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. Sorry, but ANY dog can become agressive
even if not abused and neglected. One of the main reasons a dog can become aggresive is that they are pack animals, and some determine a pecking order and are intent on enforcing it. In many cases a child is seen as the dog's "inferior" and that dog will attempt to dominate the child.

The problem with pits is their jaw strength. They are killing machines. Can they be nice, docile, loving pets? Sure. But if a situation arises where you have an extremely dominant dog, a pit is going to possibly kill, while most other breeeds might just cause a flesh wound.

Dynamite is safe when used correctly. But I wouldn't leave my kids in a room full of it, would you?
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
56. Oh yes, that's why the local shelter has a special class in just HOW to
deal JUST WITH PIT BULLS.

Because they're so kind, gentle, protective and predictable. I liked the part of the class on how to break up fights without killing the dogs.

Went to the LA Animal Shelter yesterday, saw the class, as it happened. Some of those fucking dogs, ALL WITH WOMEN, were on TIRE CHAINS.

Yet, 85% of the dogs in the kennels for 'adoption' were pit and pit mixes.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
69. MadHound's right
I read a history of the breed not long ago and was astonished. They were "America's dog" in the early part of the 20th century. Remember the Buster Brown ads? That was a pit bull.

I have to wonder if the underground pit bull fighting industry is causing some of the problems. I know nothing about doggie genetics, but these guys are breeding for bad-ass temperaments. And it's true, the pound is full of pits and pit mixes. Who knows where these dogs come from? Are the "bad asses" screwing up the gene pool.

A pit bull used to live next door to us (he was abused by his owner, but that's another story.) He never so much growled at me -- he was in our yard a lot; I grew to like him -- but he was so big and so powerful people used to freak out at the sight of him.

And, I must say, the breed attracts assholes. The small penis crowd, if you know what I mean. (I don't mean you, MadHound.)
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #41
72. The following story from the St Louis Post Dispatch
is about a man who lovingly raised his two pit bulls and from all reports pampered them....

In the end he was killed by his dogs....

Naturally there is a disclaimer at the end of the story about how not ALL pit bulls are dangerous, but if even those who were supposedly raised in a loving doting home can turn violent, what are people to believe?

I would never have such a dog in my house nor would I ever dog sit such a dog.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlou...

By all accounts, Lorinze Reddings doted over his two dogs, Ginger and Joker, who were part pit bulls.

He bathed them regularly in the front yard of his two-story home in the Heritage area of St. Charles County, and he was quick to point out to passers-by that they were very friendly dogs.

Reddings, 42, was protective of his pets, and they were of him, neighbors say.

But Reddings was found dead in his home this week and the autopsy results shocked his friends and relatives: The dogs had attacked Reddings, killing him by breaking his neck.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Yes - I can Google stories of other breeds attacking, too...
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 09:42 AM by Cyndee_Lou_Who
English mastiff and Canary
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic...

Mixed breed (no mention of pit anywhere):
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2005...

Great Dane:
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/Ju...

2 Labs and a Chow:
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/Ju...

Husky:
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/Ma...

heeler/shih-tzu mix:
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/OtherBreedBites/Ap...

EVEN a Pomeranian!!!


Should we ban them all? NO! We should restrain our pets - destroy the individual aggressive beasts - ALL breeds, and abusive, neglectful owners should be held accountable.


On edit: I've KNOWN an owner of a purebred Lab who was mauled horrifically by his own dog. I've known dozens of owners of pits who have never EVER had incident.

Jus' sayin'....



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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. you're really maureen faibish aren't you? just kidding
as the parent of a kid who was eaten by my pet boa i can relate.

just kidding, i'm a kidder.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Well.... I said below that this woman is a monster and I stand by that.
I am NOT defending the dogs in this story, nor the woman. She's an evil piece of shit. The individual dogs in this story need to be destroyed. I start to have a problem when an entire breed is held accountable for the actions of a few fucked up dogs and many fucked up PEOPLE. That, sir, is a 'sweeping generalization' that occurs with sensationalized stories. Mix in some anecdotal 'evidence'...

Like I said in a previous post, it's a topic that some here have vastly different opinions on, and neither 'side' will really convince the other. I just don't understand how legislation against a particular breed will keep anyone safer. Morans who allow this shit to happen will and do still exist. If not a pit it will be a Rott or a Shepherd or a Doberman or a Great Dane or a Husky... should we just keeping banning the breeds that they choose to use or address the REAL problem and hold these fucking useless people accountable??


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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. this woman is an extreme example, i admit
and i also admit i'm somewhat hysterical on the subject.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Nah, I wouldn't say "hysterical "
I have strong beliefs on the matter, too. And, we at DU are very committed to our beliefs. That's what makes us special.

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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. fuck pit bulls, don't want em in my neighborhood
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #40
74. It REALLY depends on the individual dog.
Bite reports come in from all kinds of dogs, and they are not limited to the breeds you might expect (Pit Bulls, Rotties, etc.) A few years ago the top "biter breed" was Cocker Spaniels. That isn't exactly a high profile vicious dog...

Frankly, I think a lot of people miss a couple of key points about Pit Bulls, and one of those is that there is a segment of the breed that was bred for aggressive behavior for the fighting ring. Literally, those SOBs that raise and train fighting dogs cull out passive or even placid dogs from the breeding stock.

Any responsible breeder (for any kind of animal) will tell you that you have to breed for enhancement of the animals. What those bastards are dong is just wrong on a lot of different levels.

Something else about Pit Bulls, is the fact that they are considered a large breed that can require a lot of special handling. A lot of people get all freaked out about it, but put very simply, if you want to have one in your home you better know what you are doing when it comes to doggie social skills and doggie discipline.

I hate to increase the rhetoric any more than it already has been, but if you want a companion animal in your household that is strong enough that it can potentially kill you, then you BETTER be aware of how to work with it to keep from getting killed.

I get very angry at stories like this one, for several reasons, but in part because it implies that somehow the animals themselves are at fault.

Yell about the mother, yell about the breeders that bred dogs for aggressive behavior--hell, yell about the culture that places kids lower than dogs in some people's eyes--but please don't look at the entire breed like they are all killers, because they are not.

I've worked with a Rottie rescue group and I am used to people saying how dangerous that particular breed is, too. I will tell you that in my experience, every dog is different. You can't predict with precision how every animal will react to a specific situation, but you CAN train that animal to minimize the dangers. You also have to humanely euthanize the animals that mentally are not stable.

Right now, I have a neighbor that has a pit bull that he rescued from breeders that supplied fight pens. Oscar is a great dog that was rescued as a puppy and has never known anything except a family environment. He's mellow with kids (a whole lot better than the Border Collie next door!) and he's just a big old goofy dog that looks like a bad ass.


Laura
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Yeah
I made that point in my post above. Breeding for viciousness -- I'm sure that's gone a long way in hurting the breed.
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #76
79. Any time you breed for negative characteristics you hurt the animals.
This is one of my pet peeves (forgive the bad pun there) when people who breed animals end up hurting the animals. German Shepherds are lovely dogs. For a time there were breeders who were working for that downward slope on the Shepherd hindquarters and they ended up creating an entire strain of the breed with severe deformities of the hip joints.

The same can be said of bulldogs that have been bred to have such big heads the pups have to be delivered via C-Section or of Persian cats with the pushed in faces that have non-functional tear ducts. Manx breeders that wanted no tails on the cats bred in a weakness in the lower spine are another good example...

I hate the idea of anyone breeding animals for negative temperament, or a physical weakness. It makes me ill to think that we have that level of arrogance.

It is breeders like the woman in this story that REALLY need to be put out of business, IMO.


Laura
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. Lion owners say the exact same things when they eat somebody
i got that lion when it was a cute little kitten and it never harmed anyone till the stupid neighbor kid tried to pet it and was eaten. that lion was the most gentlest, sweetiest, cuddliest pet i ever owned and it simply adored children.

my aunt's show dog german shepard damn near killed her 6 month old lying in it's crib. my son was bitten on the leg by the neighbor's cocker, and my daughter's lower lip was sliced down to her chin by the neighbor's german shepard, which was behind a fence.

leaving your kids alone with two pit bulls is fucking stupid.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. You said it right - kinda.....
"leaving your kids alone with two pit bulls is fucking stupid."....

mopaul, leaving your kids alone with ANY dog that can potentially cause harm is fucking stupid. Please see above story where a woman who left a 6 week old baby alone with a fucking Pomeranian resulted in the infant's death. Some people... PEOPLE... are fucking stupid beyond belief! Yes, and some dogs are aggressive and need to be destryoed.


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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #77
82. "leaving your kids alone with two pit bulls is fucking stupid."
Yep. I agree. That woman is a menace and her kids are not in a safe environment. She KNEW those dogs were potentially vicious, and yet she kept the dogs in the house with her kids, and was, in fact, LETTING THEM BREED!!!!

If she thought those dogs were aggressive to humans in any way, she should never have allowed any kind of breeding to happen, and should probably have had those dogs put down.

Blame her as much as you want to--I'll be happy to chime in.

Large breed dogs are not for everyone. (Hell, cats or kids are not for everyone either...) you have got to be responsible and educated if you are gonna have one, let alone breed them.

Part of the reason her male was aggressive was the fact that he was intact (unfixed.) I wish somebody would tell me WHY anybody would HAVE an intact male Pit Bull outside of a setting where the public AND the animals were both safe...

Like I told you--I'll be happy to chime in with criticizing her and her decisions. She's fucking NUTS.


Laura
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
47. i agree that it's unamerican to ban a breed
but you assume naivete of your audience to push the "pit-bulls are little angels" thing.
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alphafemale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
35. Her child is shut up in the basement? Her dog has free reign of house?
Shows where her 1st priority was.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #35
57. Uh huh, you're going to try to get these MATING DOGS in the BASEMENT on
your own?

While they're trying to KILL YOU?

Good luck wid dat.
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TorchTheWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
36. What a lying sack of crap!
This woman is just unbelievable. To even conceive of locking away the CHILD in the basement so the dogs can have free run of the house clearly shows she valued the life and comfort of the dogs over her own child.

She claims she had no idea that Rex would become more aggressive when Ella was in heat, but if she didn't know that, WHY would she have been moved to lock the child away from the dogs at all? If there wasn't some indication that it would be dangerous to leave the dogs and the child alone together, she never would have had the idea to keep the child locked away from the dogs. Clearly, she KNEW the dogs were/could be dangerous.

Although it is true that certain breeds of dogs have aggressive strains bred into them, some breeds more or less than others, I also believe it is possible to raise a "dangerous" breed of dog to be obedient and gentle and who will not attack anyone without just cause (example - if someone were to attack the dog's master or break into the house). However, when acquiring such a "dangerous" breed of dog, one must raise them strictly from a very early age and be absolutely consistant in training. Clearly, her dogs were not raised to be obedient as she mentions:

"Maureen Faibish said she put Nicholas rather than the dogs in the basement because the room, which also served as a playroom for the children, was filled with plastic bags in preparation of their move. She figured the dogs would have destroyed the bags filled with clothes."

Had these dogs been properly raised and trained, there would be no worry that the dogs would trash her belongings when she was away. Puppies will be known to chew and destroy belongings, but by the time they are adults, that behavior should have been trained out of them completely. These dogs were obviously not trained to be obedient, and she KNEW that.

I used to have an Akita... another breed of "dangerous" dog. I trained him to be obedient, and there was never a time in his life he would have disregarded my command. However, knowing that his size and strength made him CAPABLE of hurting someone, there was also never a time in his life where I would have permitted access for him to hurt someone in my absense... even people he knew and liked. It is the owner's responsibility so see that no one is hurt by their dog, and every owner must be diligent in protecting both other people from the dog and the dog from other people. If there is EVER a single time where an owner makes the decision to allow convenience to override responsibility, that person should NOT own such a dog... PERIOD.

Because children are not likely to be consistent in their behavior with the family dog... teasing, or doing things that the OWNER knows might rile the dog, but the child doesn't... I don't believe that dogs (particularly "dangerous" ones) should be allowed to be together with children unsupervised. This is something else that is very bothersome about this woman... she KNEW that the child disobeyed her and probably WOULD in this instance. Knowing that, clearly, she did not CARE that her child might be put in a dangerous situation with the dogs. That in itself is reason enough to lock her away and take away her other children.

I hope she keeps talking. The more she does, the more she incriminates herself... and the more I am beginning to suspect she even WANTED the child to be harmed in some way.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
37. How many of you with children
would be able to compose a doggy defense shortly after losing a child? I'm sorry, I would be catatonic. But then, i wouldn't lock my kid in the goddamned basement and "hope for the best" either.

This woman viewed her son as a nuisance ( otherwise why not take him along as you run errands? I take my 11 year old everywhere - I could never leave him locked in a basement with a shovel against the door as if HE were the "dumb beast.") He obviously really did not matter to this woman at all. She is probably glad to be rid of a child who "wouldn't listen to me."

You know what, you sick woman? I understand why he didn't listen to you. YOU ARE AN IDIOT. AND A CRIMINAL for putting your child in that kind of danger. I hope they lock you up and never allow you to go near children again.

RIP Nicky.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. her children are her pets as well
clearly her other children and pets should be taken from her.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
49. amen
excellent post
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Thanks
It's sad the post had to be made, though, huh? There are some real sorry parents out there, no doubt.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
38. you gotta admit, the kid disobeyed his mother, & he payed for it
rotten kid, he had it coming
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
50. The damn dog was acting aggressive and
she left her child in the house with it???? She chose to close her SON in the basement instead of the dog???!!! That dog would have been put to sleep in a heartbeat at the first sign of aggression toward my child. What was more important? The dog or the child she gave birth to? Geezuskrist!
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
51. this woman is sick
and if there is any justice in this world will be behind bars for a very long time.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
55. This shows the sickness of certain pet owners
Pets are pets, children are children. In life's pecking order, children are much higher than your pet. Your own children are several orders of magnitude higher.

Pit bull defenders always say "i raised mine correctly, and would never blah blah blah". Every mauling case I have ever been involved in had the owner describe their dogs as 'good'. Every time. So the pit owners here don't hold much water with me.

Pit bulls may be no more likely to bite, but their bite strength and gameness cause very severe injuries. But the defenders have such a strange, irrational attachment to their own dogs it blinds them to human suffering, especially the suffering of children.

Trying to argue with pit owners is like trying to argue religion with someone. The owners are not amenable to argument because their minds are already made up.
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. it's bizarre isn't it, how the pit bull has a legion of defenders?
and the way i was raised, if a dog attacked your child, the dog is shot to death immediately, not picked up by animal control.

i've seen first hand what they can do, two attacked my lab in my own yard, and i personally beat the fuck out of them with my crutches and they ignored me.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. I agree. If a dog, ANY dog attacks a child, down it goes.
You mentioned a lab. I have personally known a person mauled by a lab. They put it down, as they should have. I have 'known' dozens of pit owners, all responsible and no horror stories. Any dog is a threat and any dog who attacks should be put down.


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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. The same can be said about the folks who make sweeping generalizations
of the breed. Trying to argue with them is like trying to argue religion with someone. They are amenable to argument because their minds are already made up...

It goes both ways. The woman in this story is a fool and a monster.


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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. The woman in this story is a fool and a monster.
And so neglectful that any dogs she had would have been dangerous.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. EXACTLY!!!
And so... the dog breed wars continue... the poster above was right, there's no *real* discussion of the matter.

Those who think pits are evil people-killing monsters will never be convinced otherwise.

And those of us who know the truth with never buy into the hype.

Whatever... I guess that they think breed-specific legislation will keep them and their kids 'safe'. Meanwhile morans like this woman are still walking around, with kids and dogs....

:shrug:




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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. please, enlighten us with the truth about the breed
others have attempted this, maybe you can be the one to convince us.
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Cyndee_Lou_Who Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Like I said.... it's pointless.
This is the 3rd 'discussion' in the past week about the topic.

You believe that by banning the breed you and the kids are safe. Dream on.

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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. So glad you asked
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #66
85. just because I think pit-bulls are an inherently more violent dog
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 10:28 AM by SlavesandBulldozers
than, say, even a German Shepherd - doesn't mean that I want to ban the breed. That's a mischaracterization of the argument, and I believe you know that.

Oh, and by the way, the statistics are on my side.

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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
62. "It was just the heat of the moment."
Was she trying to make a joke? I can't believe she said that!
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. she has no sense of humor or priorities
and she REALLY has no tact when speaking
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #63
86. to say the least
i believe she's insane.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt after her kid was chewed to death when she said "God called him home". But i believe she's moved way beyond the benefit of the doubt at this point.
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Dervill Crow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
87. Hell's bells.
What a disgrace. That has to be one of the craziest things I've ever read. Irresponsible parenting, irresponsible pet ownership. The dog was simply being a dog in the environment he was put into. Spay the female, neuter the male, and euthanize the mother. She's ultimately responsible for this tragedy.

The Oregon Humane Society won't let a dog be adopted into a family where certain criteria aren't met, and they do a home inspection. If only that was necessary for anyone getting a pet. Even better, if it was necessary for anyone wanting to become a parent!!

Okay, sorry. That sounds like something a Repug might say. But still . . .

Flame away if you like. I own a pit bull and things like this make me incoherent. There is no reason for this; pit bulls are not by nature bad dogs any more than any other breed, but a responsible owner needs to know what the dog is capable of.
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gardenista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
90. After having slept on this for a night, I must ask. WHERE is the husband?
of course the mother gets lots of our attention because she's talking to the press. But where is the husband in all this? He was in Oregon, I take it, having gotten a new job. But isn't he just as responsible as the mother?

He must have known that the dogs were dangerous. He's the one that "trained" them. He left his entire family exposed to that danger, and put his obviously incompetent wife in charge of these dogs.

I think he should be held responsible, as well.
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