Sensenbrenner hearing on Patriot act starting right now on c-span (re-peat

[rodeodance]

of yesterday's hearing)

[rodeodance]

1. opened with Sen. saying the hearing is at the request of the Dems and

the witnesses were chosen by the Dems.

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2. Conyers is saying the meeting is about the 16 provisions of Patriot Act-

most of which have been abused.

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3. says we will hear about the failure of racial profiling in the the Bush

administration. --ended up as a deportation nightmare and not a single
terrorist has been found.

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4. Sen. abruptly cut off Conyers--and recognized himself.

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5. Sen read off list of members (Dems) who did not show up for the meeting.

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6. Sen. claiming how bipartisian he has been in past meetings by choosing

the scoop of the meeting. says the ACLU has testified 4 times in the past and yet they feel they need more time.

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7. Sen saying critics of Patriot act contruct an unreal reality--they make up

stories.

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8. Sen said that all material not pertaining to the scope of the meeting--

in other words- it seems to me that Sen will determine what information is important.

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9. Conyers indicated that this could be a hostile meeting based on the tone

thus far.

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10. Conyers is already saying that Sen. is wrong--he never talked to Sen

about the 'scope of the meeting'--

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11. Sen. says the meeting is about the 16 provisions (which Conyers does

not agree with as to the scope of the meeting). Conyers says it is broader than that).

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13. Sen. again is saying that only 16 provisions of the PA is the scope of

the meeting.

[texanwitch]

12. So nice of Sensenbrenner to allow the Democrats to have an hearing.

What slimey piece of crap. Go crawl under the rock where you came from.:kick:

Makes you wonder what the republicans are trying to hide.

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14. Rep Nadler asking what the Chair is afraid of?--is trying to limit the

scope of the meeting.

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15. Sen. reminds the witnesses to stay within the scope of the meeting.

Verbal testimony to be confined to 5 minutes only and seems to they can enter their testimony in the record--although I am unsure of this as Sen. is being so rude.

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16. Carlina Tapia-Ruano saying the provisions do not give people who

are accused of wronging any rights--not even to explain situation to officers.

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17. says hearings ordered to be held in secret (Kreppie memo from the

Justice Department)--? spelling.

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18. detainees charged with civil immigration issues-- NOT criminal charges

after being detained for months--with is a violation of the Patriot act itself--. A memo ? from the Justice Dept circumvents the Patriot act itself and allows for long months of retention (Patriot Act allows for only 7 days).

[rodeodance]

20. She says of the over 10,000 arabs rounded up --NOT one has been

charged with any form of terrorism

[LightningFlash]

21. How could he do this....

Sensenbrenner seemed to be so reasonable at first, listening to all of the witnesses. But then he all of a sudden snaps.

It's almost like the Justice Department ordered him to shut it down, like he was threatened and pressured to end all the hearings. :mad:

[rodeodance]

55. Well he got orders from someone to limit conversation that is for sure.

[texanwitch]

19. Great job rodeodance

:applause:

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22. witness saying that at the discrection of ONE man (Attorney General)--

race based discrimination has occured. He is speaking of Asscroft and now Gonzalas.

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23. it seems like the Atorney Generals have exceeded the Patriot Act as far

as I have determined thus far.

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24. Chips saying that there is NO way to determine what abuses have taken

place because of the secrecy.

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25. The Senator wants a specific list of names. Chips saying librarians came

to him. Chips mentioned some names in Dallas meeting but the Senator is requesting specific names.

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26. Chips saying it is myth to say that there have not been abuses --secretsy

prevents people from doing investigations.

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27. Pearlstein, Deborah saying deaths have occured in US custody and

have been in the paper--no one has been held accountablable.

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28. Zogby saying that our policies have made us LESS safe.

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29. Zogby and others saying that some countries are becoiming more

repressive--contrary to the Administrations claims of spreading democracy.

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30. Repug asking why no one from Admin. asked to testify to refute the claims

of these witnesess.

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31. Dan Lungren saying the abuse of Koran does not cause us to be less

safe. He is refuting most of what the witnesses are saying.

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32. Lundgren saying that Kreppie meno no longer being followed and wants

that to be on the record. He wants all his points to be on the record.

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33. "patently obserd" to equate US with China and other states--that somehow

because of passing of the Patriot Act that other countries are following-modeling our example and becoming repressive.

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34. Mel Watt, Dem, NC- saying it is not unusual for Legislative process to

over--react in cases such as 9/11 or Enron. The test is to find the appropriate and right balance once things settle down. Good for him.

Also saying we need to listen to all of the people affected by the legislation (not just the Administration).

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35. Watt saying that once the PAct got the Rules Committe--some of the

intent of the Patriot Act changed.

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37. Rep Franks saying it has been the practice of the committee to let the

witnesses finish their comments. but Sensen. cut him off (and he is a Repug)--saying he will follow the rules!!

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38. Rupug Franks saying US should not be compared to a gulag. Guess

he had to get the crack in.

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39. Zogby saying admin let numbers--1, 2000 rounded up but later stopping

giving our numbers so he does not know true number.

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41. Zogby saying that our "rules" for torture have been lowered and now

countries following the US--and saying they are not doing torure.

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42. Sensenbrenner keeps cutting off people.

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43. Nadler saying AG can keep detainees for 7 days but they get around

this. The administration has not given them any clear answer. Nadler wanted to know what the legal basis was.

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44. Nadler asking and witness saying that people have been held even

when cleared and give bail.

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45. Individual--non citizens TODAY can be and ARE being detained even

when eligable for bail.

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46. She made the case that with the REAL ID act--the situation will get worse

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47. Rep Coble Repug NC is upset--saying they already had 9 meetings.

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48. The Repugs on the Comm. have NO intention of realy listening to any

witnesses even as they say they are!! 'plowing ground we already covered in past 9 minutes).

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49. Shela Jackson Lee saying she was in the room--she wa not absent=but

Sensenbrenner keep cutting her off. She was just trying to correct the record--in Sen. read off the list at the beginning of people who supposedly were not present.

[LightningFlash]

36. Just terrible....

Lundgren, King who were republicans and Watt who was a democrat all were far more understanding and able to resolve this issue.

Sensenbrenner was out of bounds, and saying they could hold no further hearings....Senbrenner has lost it. :mad:

[texanwitch]

40. I can smell republican fear all the way to the White House.

Just got to shut everybody up. :kick:

[rodeodance]

50. You are right--the Repugs do not want to hear this--in public.

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52. Repugs just do not get it -that our policies are tarnishing our image

abroad!!--and making us less safe. It is a mentality that prevents them from listening.

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53. Zogby saying other countries now look to US to validate their repressive

polices and we need to be concerned about this!!

[cornermouse]

51. "disorientation of the chairman"

:rofl:

Truer words were never spoken.

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54. I missed that one--typing and listening do not go hand in hand many times.

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56. Repug again bringing up the 'Gulag of our time"--Pence from ID says

it is irresponsible. says it endangers our troops.

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57. they keep harping on the term Gulag--it is a distraction!!--the real inten

of the comment had to do with the argepelgo--the ring of prisons around the world that are outside of US law!! gods this makes me so angry.

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58. Pense is now giving us a history lesson on the Gulags. Asked Chips

to retract--is he prepared to do this?

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59. Nadler saying something about impuing the integrety of the witnesses

by Pense, which Sen. overruled.

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60. Chip Pitts saying that it is the US own reports that they used for their

Amnesy Reports. It is not amnesty that is destroying the image of America!!!!!! The US has a legal black hole that needs fixing.

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62. Conyers saying it is the jurisdiction of this committee to consider civil

rights!!--this is after Sen. said that it was the State
departments reposibility to look into abuse problems in prisons.

[cornermouse]

61. Sheila Jackson Lee said it when she started trying to talk and

Sensenbrenner was trying to drown her out. Keep on trucking.

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63. thanks. Zogby says the Dept of Justice keeps adding hay to the haystack

--the profiling of Arab-Americans.

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64. Any hearings of rounded up people were held in secret -rules allowed

for this says Tapia-Ruano saying this. she says it is in the interest of national interest NOT to have blanket closed hearings -many times the immediate family did not know where their family membes were.

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65. Sheila J. Lee saying the issues here are constitutional. The Patriot

Act that came out of this committee was bi-partison but once it hit the floor it was not so any more.

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66. Lee is saying this is rule by the 'tyranny of the majority"--an opportunit

to 'see the light"

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67. says that some members are trying to 'turn out the lights" good one!!

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68. asking about the unclarity of Gitmo--that it puts troops in danger. This

is exactly what the Repugs do NOT GET!!

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69. Zogby says he wants his testimony to be put into the record and Sen.

says without objection. also on the abuses of Gitmo. Sen again said without objection!!

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70. Here is comes--Sen. about to walk out and close down the meeting!!

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71. Sen. saying most of what said today is NOT related to the Patriot ACT!!

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72. says PA being used to oppose Admin. policies and today's testimony

confirms this claim.
Nothing to do with PA--the detentions of Gitmo (says Sen).
I want to get this testimony!!

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73. "broad brush of PA act"--Sen. is upset--saying those who claim we

have the Minute Men Project because of the Patriot act is irresponsible!!

Wants Pitts to submit for the record the libraians names--will give him a week.

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74. there goes Sensenbrenner off the floor with his gavel. and Conyers

keeps saying this 'point of order"

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76. I wonder if this last 10 minutes will be in the offical record of this

hearing??

[cornermouse]

75. Does anyone read lips?

What did the guy in the tan jacket next to the door say as Sensenbrenner left the room? Just curious.

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77. would have been interesting to hear wouldn't it have!!

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78. Lee saying she is shamed for what happened here today!!

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79. many Muslins sitting in the audiance--who Lee is apologizing too.

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80. Scott, Dem saying the WH says that at the end of conflict--they will have

opportunity to be heard. But they have no opportunity to be heard-because he has not been formally charged. That is the problem of the PAct--they are labeled as such on suspicison of being a terrorist and held without bond.

[cornermouse]

82. Yeah, but according to Bush this war will be going on

throughout our children's and possibly grandchildren's lives. That means a large number of people are being given an automatic life sentence without trial and that is about as anti-constitution/USA-as-it-used-to-be-before-Bush as you can get.

[texanwitch]

81. Many thanks rodeodance, I just couldn't watch it a second time,

I was just to mad.

Did I say today how much I hate these bastards...................:hi:

[steve2470]

83. thank you for a wonderful play by play, what hard work nt

[atommom]

84. Thanks for the blow-by-blow description!