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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 09:50 PM
Original message


Averell Harriman, (Photo-right) Democrat, former governor of New York, ambassador plenipotentiary and advisor to presidents, one of the wealthiest men in America and the Bush family business patron that helped arm Adolf Hitler and the NAZI Party THAT Averell Harriman SAT on a document that wouldve led to peace talks with Vietnam in 1962.

The Boston Globe reported the story last week, but Corporate McPravda has been slow to, um, pass the word.



Papers reveal JFK efforts on Vietnam

By Bryan Bender
Boston Globe Staff
June 6, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Newly uncovered documents from both American and Polish archives show that President John F. Kennedy and the Soviet Union secretly sought ways to find a diplomatic settlement to the war in Vietnam, starting three years before the United States sent combat troops.

Kennedy, relying on his ambassador to India, John Kenneth Galbraith, planned to reach out to the North Vietnamese in April 1962 through a senior Indian diplomat, according to a secret State Department cable that was never dispatched.

SNIP

A draft cable dated the same day instructed Galbraith to use Desai as a ''channel discreetly communicating to responsible leaders North Vietnamese regime . . . the president's position as he indicated it."

But a week later, Harriman met with Kennedy and apparently persuaded him to delay, according to other documents, and the overture was never revived.


SNIP

At the urging of Nehru, Galbraith met with the Polish foreign minister, Adam Rapacki, in New Delhi on Jan. 21, 1963, where Galbraith expressed Kennedy's likely interest in a Polish proposal for a cease-fire and new elections in South Vietnam. There is no evidence of further discussions between the two diplomats. Rapacki returned to Warsaw a day later. Galbraith wrote in his memoirs that it was not followed up.

CONTINUED, MUST READ COPY DISTRIBUTE WIDE AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2...






Harriman also played a key role in turning the removal of Diem from office into the assassination of Diem.

Here's what the press corpse missed regarding Averell (Along with Jackson "BCCI" Stephens, my widow helped finance the Arkansas fellow's campaign) Harriman's involvement in Vietnam.

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest?



From The Secret History of the CIAby Joseph Trento:

EXCERPT

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: On instructions from Averell Harriman. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodges own military assistant.

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy. By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, Kenny ODonnell (JFKs appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters, although Dunns role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodtge for special operations, could act without hindrance.

SOURCE:

The Secret History of the CIA. Joseph Trento. 2001, Prima Publishing. pp. 334-335.



For years, Nixon and the Reich wing tried pinning the Diem assassination on JFK. E Howard Hunt even planted phony cables so stating in his White House safe.



What purpose could these serve, other than to blacken the Kennedy name? Try obscuring the trail of President Kennedy's assassins.



The Pentagon Papers

EXCERPT

One of the most important narratives of this event was written by Edward G. Lansdale in his autobiography In the Midst of Wars. Few Americans, if any, knew Ngo Dinh Diem and the situation in Vietnam from 1954-68 better than Ed Lansdale. He wrote:


As the prisons filled up with political opponents, as the older nationalist parties went underground, with the body politics fractured, Communist political cadre became active throughout South Vietnam, recruiting followers for action against a government held together mainly by the Can Lao elite rather than by popular support. The reaped whirlwind finally arrived in November 1963, when the nationalist opposition erupted violently, imprisoning many of the Can Loa and killing Diem, Nhu, and others. It was heartbreaking to be an onlooker to this tragic bit of history.

It was some time before the news became known that Diem had fled to Cholon and been captured and killed there. This news was flashed around the world; this was the story that everyone heard. The public never heard of the planned flight to Europe that the Kennedy administration had arranged for him.

Thus it was that the file of routine cable traffic between Washington and Saigon eventually became known with the release and publication of the Pentagon Papers. This is how it happened that Howard Hunt was able to locate certain top-level messages to and from the White House and Ambassador Lodge in Saigon that contained information referring to "highest authority"--the cable traffic code for President Kennedy.

None of these messages contained any reference to a plot to kill President Diem and his brother or came even close to it. Concealed within these messages were carefully worded phrases that gave Ambassador Lodge the information he needed in order to direct all participants into action and to begin the careful removal of the two brothers to Europe by commercial aircraft.

According to information that came out during the Watergate hearings, those files that had been forged to smear President Kennedy were put in Hunt's White House safe, where they remained until discovered by investigators later.

SNIP


There is much about this episode that has become important upon review. There are those who have been so violently opposed to Jack Kennedy and all that he stood for that they have stooped to all kinds of sordid activities to smear him while he was alive, to attack his brother Bobby while he was still alive, and to hound Sen. Edward Kennedy to this day. Nixon's gratuitous reference to Kennedy's "complicity in the murder of Diem" after a decade of silence on that subject speaks for itself. The efforts of Howard Hunt and Chuck Colson (both employees of the White House at the time) to dig up old files in order to besmirch the memory of President Kennedy provide another example.

SNIP

http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Penta...



They are traitors, this BFEE.





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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks.
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. The record shows JFK wanted out of Vietnam -- NSAM 263
You're welcome, Cleita! As you know, President Kennedy was a war hero and a man of peace. As brave as anyone, he also was smart -- and noble -- enough to keep the latter.



President Kennedy speaks with Ambassador Harriman. In the background is Secretary of Defense McNamara.

Peter Dale Scott and John M. Newman discovered the paper trail that shows JFK wanted no part of a land war in southeast Asia. National Security Action Memorandum 263 stated the future policy of the United States: The U.S. was to pull out all military aid to South Vietnam by the end of 1964.

It's in black and white:



Within days, the newly installed President Lyndon Baines Johnson reversed the policy, formally stating the new official position of the US Government was to give whatever level of support needed by the government of South Vietnam.



As Oliver North would say. "Neet."


Hey, Cleita! How are your eyes feeling? Did everything go all right last week?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I remember President Kennedy. I didn't see him shot because I
Edited on Fri Jun-10-05 10:50 PM by Cleita
was at work. Since TV news was mostly live back then, I did see Lee Harvey Oswald shot on live TV. It was the weekend and all the networks were focused on Dallas. I also years later saw Bobby Kennedy shot on live TV. I wonder how complicit the BFEE was in these assassinations. I wonder if we will ever get a deathbed confession from someone who knows.

Eye surgery great. I can see great out of that eye. Can hardly wait until the other eye is done. Then I will have my vision back.

:bounce:
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Best wishes to you with the surgery!
BFEE complicit in all of them IMHO. Makes me wonder how much different the world would be..... :cry:
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. They are traitors,criminals,war profiteers you name it.
:puke:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Bush Organized Crime Family Values: War, Wealth, Oil


Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh meeting with Averell Harriman and Vernon Walters.
One of the first things the Liberal Mossadegh as Premier was to nationalize Iran's oil wealth.

Nice to hang out with people who know people.



Bush Family Values: War, Wealth, Oil

Four generations have created an unsavory web of links that could prove an election-year Achilles' heel for the president


by Kevin Phillips
February 8, 2004 by The Los Angeles Times

Four generations have created an unsavory web of links that could prove an election-year Achilles' heel for the president.

SNIP SADLY THERE'S SO MUCH THERE...

Washington lawyer Jack Blum, the ace investigator for Kerry's subcommittee back then, is said to be advising him now, which could be meaningful. Ironically, the Bush family's century of involvement in oil, armaments and global intrigue has never been at the center of the national debate since the Bushes starting running for president in 1980.

The reason? Insufficient public knowledge. The only Bush biography published before George H.W. Bush won election in 1988 was a puff job written by a former press secretary, and the biographies of George W. Bush in 2000 barely mentioned his forefathers. Millions of Republicans who have loyally voted for Bushes in three presidential elections simply have no idea. Here are circumstances and biases especially worth noting.

The Bushes and the military-industrial complex: George H. Walker and Samuel Prescott Bush were the dynasty's founding fathers during the years of and after World War I. Walker, a St. Louis financier, made his mark in corporate reorganizations and war contracts. By 1919, he was enlisted by railroad heir W. Averell Harriman to be president of Wall Street-based WA Harriman, which invested in oil, shipping, aviation and manganese, partly in Russia and Germany, during the 1920s. Sam Bush, the current president's other great-grandfather, ran an Ohio company, Buckeye Steel Castings, that produced armaments. In 1917, he went to Washington to head the small arms, ammunition and ordnance section of the federal War Industries Board. Both men were present at the emergence of what became the U.S. military-industrial complex.

Prescott Bush, the Connecticut senator and grandfather of the current president, had some German corporate ties at the outbreak of World War II, but the better yardstick of his connections was his directorships of companies involved in U.S. war production. Dresser Industries, for example, produced the incendiary bombs dropped on Tokyo and made gaseous diffusion pumps for the atomic bomb project. George H.W. Bush later worked for Dresser's oil-services businesses. Then, as CIA director, vice president and president, one of his priorities was the U.S. weapons trade and secret arms deals with Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and the moujahedeen in Afghanistan.

In his 1961 farewell address, President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about how "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." That complex's recent mega-leap to power came under George H.W. Bush and even more under George W. Bush with the post-9/11 expansion of the military and creation of the Department of Homeland Security. But armaments and arms deals seem to have been in the Bushes' blood for nearly a century.

CONTINUED...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0208-05.htm



May justice get these puking war criminals behind bars.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. JFK was also exploring talks with Castro
I know I'm taking it a bit OT, but I doubt whether many know this


JFK & Castro: The Secret Quest For Accommodation

Recently Declassified U.S. government Documents Reveal That, at the Height of the Cold War, John F. Kennedy and Fidel Castro Were Exploring Ways To Normalize U.S.- Cuba Relations

by Peter Kornbluh

In February 1996, Robert Kennedy Jr. and his brother, Michael, traveled to Havana to meet with Fidel Castro. As a gesture of goodwill, they brought a file of formerly top secret U.S. documents on the Kennedy administration's covert exploration of an accommodation with Cuba--a record of what might have been had not Lee Harvey Oswald, seemingly believing the president to be an implacable foe of Castro's Cuba, fired his fateful shots in Dallas. Castro thanked them for the file and shared his "impression that it was President John F. Kennedy's intention after the missile crisis to change the framework" of relations between the United States and Cuba. "It's unfortunate," said Castro, that "things happened as they did, and he could not do what he wanted to do."

Would John F. Kennedy, had he lived, have been able to establish a modus vivendi with Fidel Castro? The question haunts almost 40 years of acrimonious U.S.-Cuba relations. In a Top Secret--Eyes Only memorandum written three days after the president's death, one of his White House aides, Gordon Chase, noted that "President Kennedy could have accommodated with Castro and gotten away with it with a minimum of domestic heat"-- because of his track record "of being successfully nasty to Castro and the Communists" during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. Castro and his advisers believed the same. A CIA intelligence report, based on a high-level Cuban source and written for National Security Adviser McGeorge Bundy in 1964, noted that "Fidel Castro felt that it was possible that President Kennedy would have gone on ultimately to negotiate with Cuba... acceptance of a fait accompli for practical reasons."

The file on the Kennedy administration's "Cuban contacts" that Robert Jr. and Michael took to Cuba (declassified at the request of the author) sheds significant light on a story that has never been fully told--John Kennedy's secret pursuit of a rapprochement with Fidel Castro. Along with papers recently released pursuant to the Kennedy Assassination Records Act of 1992, the documents reveal the escalating efforts toward negotiations in 1963 that, if successful, might have changed the ensuing decades of perpetual hostility between Washington and Havana. Given the continuing state of tension with Castro's regime, this history carries an immediate relevance for present policy makers. Indeed, with the Clinton administration buffeted between increasingly vocal critics of U.S. policy toward Cuba and powerful proponents of the status quo, reconstructing the hitherto secret record of Kennedy's efforts in the fall of 1963 to advance "the rapprochement track" with Castro is more relevant than ever.

Unbeknownst to all but his brother and a handful of advisers, however, in 1963 John Kennedy began pursuing an alternative script on Cuba: a secret dialogue toward an actual rapprochement with Castro. To a policy built upon "overt and covert nastiness," as Top Secret White House memoranda characterized U.S. operations against Cuba, was added "the sweet approach," meaning the possibility of "quietly enticing Castro over to us." National Security Council officials referred to this multitrack policy as "simil- opting"--the use of disparate methods toward the goal of moving Cuba out of the Soviet orbit.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Sho...


Source documents of this story:

* Oval Office audio tape, November 5, 1963
* White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Mr. Donovan's Trip to Cuba," March 4, 1963
* White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Cuba -- Policy," April 11, 1963
* CIA briefing paper, Secret, "Interview of U.S. Newswoman with Fidel Castro Indicating Possible Interest in Rapprochement with the United States," May 1, 1963
* U.S. UN Mission memorandum, Secret, Chronology of events leading up Castro invitation to receive a U.S. official for talks in Cuba, November 8, 22, 1963
* White House memorandum, Secret, November 12, 1963
* White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Approach to Castro," November 19, 1963
* White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Cuba -- Item of Presidential Interest," November 25, 1963
* Message from Fidel Castro to Lyndon Johnson, "Verbal Message given to Miss Lisa Howard of ABC News on February 12, 1964, in Havana, Cuba."
* United Nations memorandum, Top Secret, from Adlai Stevenson to President Johnson, June 16, 1964
* White House memorandum, Top Secret, "Adlai Stevenson and Lisa Howard," July 7, 1964

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB103 /
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. When it comes to the BFEE, Cuba and Fidel are never OT, DrDebug.
That's a great story about Robert and Michael Kennedy's voyage to Habana.



Regarding JFK's rapproachment toward Cuba: "Simil-opting." Wow!

Certainly Kennedy was a Cold Warrior. But he wasn't like the stooges of the BFEE who actively pursue profit through war.

Trying to work out a way of sharing the planet is the way to peace and a logical extension of what JFK as president was all about. If he could, he'd work for peace. It was his administration's SOP.

OTOH, it also demonstrates the BFEE's methods. Since JFK's murder, like with Diem in Vietnam, they've made out that JFK ordered Castro's assassination. That rewriting history stuff may not've started under NIXON, but that Tricky bastard sure lied for the record when it came to JFK and peace.

BTW: Isn't it surprising Kornbluh would write Lee Harvey Oswald fired shots in Dallas? Has that been established as fact?

PS: I just followed the link from your sig, Doc! Holy cat. It's unbelievable! Thank you very much for what you've done with the Know your BFEE posts on Demopedia. That information is DU's information. And all who visit here can use it to spread the truth about these candy-assed psychotic NAZI bedwetting klansmen.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. It is pretty clear that JFK was a firm believer in diplomatic solutions
Edited on Sat Jun-11-05 04:56 AM by DrDebug
It is sad that it took so long for the documents to appear, because he had to do it in secret. And it is even sadder that I didn't know about it either until last month or so. So that means that the general public still doesn't have a clue what has happened back in 1963.

They've rewrote history. And it has been happening for a long time as well. The weird thing is that I've become a little milder about Nixon - he is still a paranoid crook - because it sounds like he was also a victim of the Treacherous Three (Dulles/Bush/Hunt).

I have no idea why Kornbluh said that about Oswald either. As far as I'm concerned Oswald is nothing but disinformation. Maybe it was to keep him from being called a tin-foiler. I totally agree Kornbluh knows more about what has happened than almost anybody else and he has build an amazing collection of facts. I must get and read that book about Bay of Pigs which he wrote. Then again it is sad that Kornbluh's article was only published in a Cigar Magazine and received no coverage whatsoever!

Thanks for the compliment. It sounded like the best place to put all the information and try to structure it. We have to let the people know what happened and I think that a good reason for having a "DU" wiki is to tell the story which is not being told on the regular wiki, because of political correctness. It may not get many visits for the DU but I did notice that it gets a high ranking in google. A couple of articles which I added suddenly appeared on the first page when I tried to find some additional/related information, so it is bound to educate some people.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
66. Was BFEE aim to cause a war between Hitler and Stalin?
Apart from arming Hitler, financing eugenics, helping get the ratlines and Operation PAPERCLIP moving, Averell Harriman did a lot of good in this world. Here he visits Martin Luther King in hospital.



So, he seems like a pretty good fellah. But, what I don't understand can fill the multiverse. Specifically, I don't understand how FDR would've let a supposed traitor into his inner circle of confidants.

Consider that FDR appointed Harriman Ambassador to Moscow in 1943.

Consider that Truman appointed the guy to help out on the Marshall Plan in 1950.

Consider that JFK had the guy acting as Ambassador-at-Large or somesuch thing in southeast Asia in 1962.

Then, there's the unsettling idea that perhaps -- perhaps in a "Wild Wild West" kind of outlandishly camp way Harriman, Walker, Dulles, Bush, et al. were working on a Military Intelligence operation in helping set up the NAZIs and Der Schickelgrber.

The idea is that they would have a proxy army battle their biggest threat since the New Deal The fight to the finish between fascism and communism, with Hitler the likely bet to come out on top.

That explains the NAZI arms investments and the overall money angle. What I wonder is, would these BFEE founders do that for national security or patriotism?

Personally, I say No. From what history shows, these turds have never put the United States ahead of their own personal interests. Anything they do is for profit and power.

So, while I dont believe the BFEE would do so for national security, arming Hitler and financing eugenics makes sense for BFEE member personal security.

Hey, Herr Hilter, remember when we bought your microphone? In arming Hitler, theyd have some leverage before the NAZI A-bombs started raining down on mom, country and apple pie.



The Soviets? Let Hitler take care of him.

Regarding the "Know your BFEE" thing: Thank you very much. And it's more than a compliment, my DU Friend. You've made these collections of posts, information, speculation and truth accessible to those interested in getting these treasonous bums thrown in jail, the lucky ones, that is.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. DULLES Wanted Cuba to Buy SOVIET Arms in 1959!
Gee. It sounds like a broken record. These warmongering turds in the SovietCIA or AmericanKGB ro whatever they are wanted war so bad over Cuba...even BEFORE Kennedy was in office.

When the Bay of Pigs fiasco was going down, the BFEE, I mean the the cabinet, the Congress, the Pentagon, the CIA all wanted war, JFK said, "No."

When the Cuban Missile Crisis was going down, the cabinet, the Congress, the Pentagon, the CIA all wanted war, JFK said, "No."

When the Joint Chiefs brought in Operation NORTHWOODS where the idea was to start a terror campaign in America and blame it on Fidel, JFK said, "No." and fired the JCS Chairman.

When JFK was assassinated, the BFEE blamed Oswald, who wanted to flee to Cuba, according to the set up in Mexico City.





IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 22, 2001, 12 p.m.

DOCUMENTS REVEAL CIA'S DULLES WANTED
CUBA TO ASK FOR SOVIET BLOC ARMS IN 1959

BRITISH CRITICIZED U.S. "EFFERVESCENCE
AND VIOLENT FEELINGS" ABOUT CUBA

Cuba expected 6,000 men in the invasion force as of January 1961


Havana, Cuba: British documents released on the first day of an historic conference on the Bay of Pigs show that CIA Director Allen Dulles hoped that British refusal to sell military items to Cuba would force the Cuban government to request arms from the Soviet bloc, providing a pretext for U.S. intervention.

The conference - involving former officials of the Kennedy Administration, the CIA, members of Brigade 2506, and Cuban government and military officials - convened today in Havana to begin three days of discussion on one of the most infamous episodes of the Cold War - the April 1961 invasion at the Bay of Pigs.

In an unprecedented declassification, the Cuban government has also declassified some 480 pages of records relating to the invasion, including intelligence reports on U.S. preparations and Fidel Castro's directives during the battle - records that "shed substantial light on Cuba's ability to repel the invasion," according to National Security Archive Senior Analyst Peter Kornbluh. The National Security Archive at George Washington University is co-sponsoring the event along with the University of Havana and several Cuban government agencies.

One of the Cuban documents - a January 1961 report on the CIA's clandestine training camps in Central America and Florida - shows that Cuban intelligence analysts estimated there were as many as 6,000 CIA "mercenaries" training at a camp in Guatemala, overestimating by far the agency's 1,400-man invasion force.

CONTINUED w/LINKS...

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/press2.html



DrDebug, I never would have discovered this gem without your "OT." Thank you!
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
67. US attacks country, Country buys soviet weapons to defend,
US justifies attack because nation cooperates with soviets.

Not the only time it was done.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. The BFEE demonstrates a pattern of making money off of war.
Which is the point.



What's bad is not everybody knows it.

Here's a nice overview from a retired United States Marine:



The Bush Crime Family

Bush family history shows a dark past unseen by most


By: Douglas Yates
September 12, 2004
Fairbanks Alaska Daily Miner

Few would argue that trust, like democracy, is earned and not inherited. So how is it that we've missed the lessons of four generations of Bush family history? As Kevin Phillips recounts in "American Dynasty," the Bush family presents a record of war profiteers who use public office to gain wealth and advantage. Along the way, Bush family business cronies receive political access and legitimacy.

One of the most venal characters is Prescott Bush, the president's grandfather.

In 1942, Congress seized the assets of Prescott Bush and charged him with trading with the enemy. Bush and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, were managing directors of the Union Banking Corp. of New York City. Allied with Brown Brothers Harriman, the largest private investment bank in the world, Bush and Walker were front men for Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen.

Thyssen, whose empire was founded on coal and steel, financed the rise of Adolf Hitler. Then as now, cloaking funds destined for subversion of democracies or weapons shipment was a useful tactic. To hide transactions and conceal ownership, Thyssen created a banking network. The first node was established in Berlin, a second in neutral Holland. UBC in New York was the linchpin.

Little more than a money-laundering office for Nazi operations in the United States, Bush, Walker and other confederates oversaw almost a dozen separate businesses. Acting with Thyssen's money, they aided the Nazi invasion of Europe by supplying resources for weaponry. In 1937, Bush set up a deal to help the Luftwaffe obtain tetraethyl lead to boost aircraft performance.

CONTINUED...

http://www.independent-media.tv/itemprint.cfm?fmedia_id...



You know if this guy knows what the BFEE are all about, the men and women now in uniform do, too -- or at least a percentage of them. Like the general population, many people have no clue what the Bush Crime Family is all about, or just how long they've been making money off of war.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. . . .
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babydollhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. question...
does mother Barb have a grudge against Castro?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Dunno. Not much seems to bother her beautiful mind.
Nixon understood her.

"She really knows how to hate."

And now for a little alternate history, or what might -- should -- have been:



He's Coming Back

BY LOUIS DUBOSE
October 13, 2000:

Gore Vidal doesn't think much of the Bushes, which is no surprise. And according to Vidal, neither did Richard Nixon, who once observed that Bush the Elder was the "sort of person you appoint to office" rather than the sort of person you could envision in the White House. But Nixon admired Barbara Bush -- because "she knows how to hate."

In the lobby of the Canal Street Hotel where the Texas delegation was housed for the 1988 Republican National Convention, George W. was courting the Texas press corps. Easy and accessible, he locked on with those blue eyes, first-named reporters, and held forth in the hotel lobby for as long as anyone holding a tape recorder cared to stand and listen.

The only time he showed any sign of anger was when he was asked about then-Gov. Ann Richards' comment about his father being "born with a silver foot in his mouth." The blue eyes narrowed as he responded to the reporter who asked the question. "It was mean and uncalled-for," he said. "It didn't bother my dad. He's lived with 'Doonesbury,' so he's used to that. But it hurt my mother." Gov. Bush talks like his father, who was as prone to malapropisms and non sequiturs, but he thinks like his mother -- which is a way of saying that he believes grudges should be transgenerational and involve corruption of blood and children avenging the wrongs visited on their parents.

In 1988 in New Orleans, Bush wanted to get even. And that was just for a slight aimed at his father but felt most keenly by his mother. What if he loses the presidency? I think we all know what. If George W. Bush loses the election next month, he will come back to Austin looking to settle some scores -- Big Time. And anyone who thinks the Texas governorship is a weak office is going to learn a little something about the exercise of power by the master -- not George W. Bush, but his chief strategist Karl Rove.

CONTINUED...

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-10-...





Wonder where she earned that trait.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, babydollhead! What do YOU think of Babs?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. It IS unbelievable. What J Edgar Hoover said...
"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."

Image

When it came to conspiracy, that sexually repressed fascist turd knew what the heck he was talking about.

And because James Jesus Angleton had the negatives of the thing with Clyde Tolson, the Hoove couldn't stop this:



Allen Dulles, the Nazis, and the CIA

Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg once stated that "The Dulles brothers were traitors." Some historians believe that Allen Dulles became head of the newly formed CIA in large part to cover up his treasonous behavior and that of his clients. -- Christian Dewar, Making a Killing


EXCERPT...

Allen Welsh Dulles was born to privilege and a tradition of public service. He was the grandson of one secretary of state and the nephew of another. But by the time he graduated from Princeton in 1914, the robber baron era of American history was coming to an an end, ushered out by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act -- which had been used in 1911 to break up Standard Oil -- and by the institution of the progressive income tax in 1913. The ruling elite was starting to view government less as their own private preserve and more as an unwanted intrusion on their ability to conduct business as usual. That shift of loyalties in itself may account for many of the paradoxical aspects of Dulles's career.

SNIP...

By 1926, W.A. Harriman was doing so well that Walker gave his son-in-law, Prescott Bush, the gift of making him a vice president. In 1931,W.A. Harriman merged with a British firm to create Brown Brothers, Harriman, and Prescott Bush became a senior partner. During the 1930's, Brown Brothers, Harriman would increasingly direct its clients' investments to German companies. The Rockefeller family was prominent among these clients, and Standard Oil developed particularly close connections with the chemical giant I.G. Farben.

It was into this heady atmosphere of high-level investments and financial manipulation that Allen Dulles entered when he joined the firm of Sullivan and Cromwell in 1926. He would become the lawyer for the Thyssens' Rotterdam bank and would also represent other German firms, including I.G. Farben.

SNIP...

Early in 1933, both Dulles brother attended a meeting in Germany where German industrialists agreed to back Hitler's bid for power in exchange for his pledge to break the German unions. A few months later, John Foster Dulles negotiated a deal with Hitler's economics minister whereby all German trade with the United States would be coordinated through a syndicate headed by Averell Harriman's cousin. With the Nazis enforcing a favorable climate for business, the profits for Thyssen and other companies soared, and the Union Banking Corporation increasingly became a Nazi money-laundering machine. In 1934, George Herbert Walker placed Prescott Bush on Union Bank's board of directors, and Bush and Harriman also began to use the bank as the basis for a complex and deceptive system of holding companies.

The Hamburg-Amerika shipping line, which Harriman and Walker had controlled since 1920, had a particularly high degree of Nazi involvement in its operations. In 1934, a congressional investigation revealed it to have become a front for I.G. Farben's spying, propaganda, and bribery on behalf of the German government. Rather than advising Walker and Harriman to divest themselves of these tainted assets, Prescott Bush hired Allen Dulles to help conceal them. From 1937 on, the Dulles brothers would serve Bush and Harriman in all their covert dealings with Nazi firms. They also performed similar cloaking services for others, like the Rockefellers.

It goes without saying that Harriman, Walker, Bush, and Dulles were morally tainted by their connections with German firms like Thyssen and I.G. Farben, since they both funded and profited from Hitler's crimes against humanity. However, their entire enterprise was corrupt in a moresubtle sense as well, in that its very basis was financial fraud on an unprecedented scale. That would have been true even if Hitler had never come to power. The real significance of adding the Nazis to the equation was that it upped the stakes, both increasing the potential rewards for the participants and forcing them into increasingly elaborate deceptions to conceal their frauds.

SOURCE:

http://www.enter.net/~torve/trogholm/secret/rightroots/...

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Of course they're traitors
They've been traitors at least since WW2 with Prescott Bush. They piss me off so fucking bad. :mad: I'm still convienced in my "gut" and from my own research Poppy Bush was involved in killing Kennedy.
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. For those who haven't seen this

The document linking George H.W. Bush to JFK assassination




http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Ge...


George H.W. Bush mentioned by J. Edgar Hoover about a GHW visit on the day after the assassination
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. He was in Texas at the same time, that much is certain...
H. W. Bush must have known one hundred percent, who in the CIA murdered Kennedy. If nothing else he had a conversation with that person during the RNC convention.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. "The Texans"
...is what Nixon called Bush, Baker and Mosbacher.



The Kennedy Assassination:
The Nixon-Bush Connection


by Paul Kangas

Note: All references to "George Bush" refer to George Herbert Walker Bush, Father of George "Dubya" Bush who was "elected" pResident by a 5 to 4 vote of the Supreme Court.

A newly discovered FBI document reveals that George Bush was directly involved in the 1963 murder of President John Kennedy. The document places Bush working with the now-famous CIA agent, Felix Rodriguez, recruiting right-wing Cuban exiles for the invasion of Cuba. It was Bush's CIA job to organize the Cuban community in Miami for the invasion. The Cubans were trained as marksmen by the CIA. Bush at that time lived in Texas. Hopping from Houston to Miami weekly, Bush spent 1960 and '61 recruiting Cubans in Miami for the invasion. That is how he met Felix Rodriguez.

SNIP (SORRY, SO MUCH SUBSTANCE)...

The CIA put Texas millionaire and CIA agent George Bush in charge of recruiting Cuban exiles into the CIA's invasion army. Bush was working with another Texas oilman, Jack Crichton, to help him with the invasion. A fellow Texan, Air Force General Charles Cabel, was asked to coordinate the air cover for the invasion.

Most of the CIA leadership around the invasion of Cuba seems to have been people from Texas. A whole Texan branch of the CIA is based in the oil business. If we trace Bush's background in the Texas oil business we discover his two partners in the oil-barge leasing business: Texan Robert Mosbacher and Texan James Baker. Mosbacher is now Secretary of Commerce and Baker is Secretary of State, the same job Dulles held when JFK was killed. (Source: Common Cause magazine, 3-4/90).

On the Watergate tapes, June 23, 1972, referred to in the media as the "smoking gun" conversation, Nixon and his Chief of Staff, H.R. Haldeman, discussed how to stop the FBI investigation into the CIA Watergate burglary. They were worried that the investigation would expose their conection to "the Bay of Pigs thing." Haldeman, in his book The Ends of Power, reveals that Nixon always used code words when talking about the 1963 murder of JFK. Haldeman said Nixon would always refer to the assassination as "the Bay of Pigs."

On that transcript we find Nixon discussing the role of George Bush's partner, Robert Mosbacher, as one of the Texas fundraisers for Nixon. On the tapes Nixon keeps refering to the "Cubans" and the "Texans." The "Texans" were Bush, Mosbacher and Baker. This is another direct link between Bush and evidence linking Nixon and Bush to the Kennedy assassination.

In the same discussion Nixon links "the Cubans," "the Texans," "Helms," "Hunt," "Bernard Barker," Robert "Mosbacher" and "the Bay of Pigs." Over and over on the Watergate tapes, these names come up around the discussion of the photos from Dallas that Nixon was trying to obtain when he ordered the CIA to burglarize the Watergate. (Source: Three Men and a Barge", Teresa Riordan, Common Cause magazine, March/April 1990, and San Francisco Chronicle, May 7,1977, interview with Frank Sturgis in which he stated that "the reason we burglarized the Watergate was because Nixon was interested in stopping news leaking related to the photos of our role in the assassination of President John Kennedy.")

CONTINUED...

http://www.sumeria.net/politics/kennedy.html



Oh yeah. I'm with you, FreedomAngel82. There's something about Bush 'n' Dallas 'n' these Texans that CREEPs me out.



Must be the Bay of Pigs-Murder Inc Thing.
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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Octafish, you are brilliant. Thanks! Hope they are getting the Hague ready
for all of the murderers. If not, thank Nature for the fact that even the worse killers are still mortal and will one day pass and not be replaced this generation.






kick to take the Mock out of Demockracy!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. What you said is: "Take the 'Mock' out of Demockracy"
Now that's something. And that's why you and I give a damn.



Hey! Did you ever hear of Operation MOCKINGBIRD? It's how the CIA transformed the presstitutes into the press corpse, what Allen Dulles called "The Mighty Wurlitzer."



Operation MOCKINGBIRD

In 1948 Frank Wisner was appointed director of the Office of Special Projects. Soon afterwards it was renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the espionage and counter-intelligence branch of the Central Intelligence Agency. Wisner was told to create an organization that concentrated on "propaganda, economic warfare; preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation measures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world."

Later that year Wisner established Mockingbird, a program to influence the domestic American media. Wisner recruited Philip Graham (Washington Post) to run the project within the industry. According to Deborah Davis (Katharine the Great): "By the early 1950s, Wisner 'owned' respected members of the New York Times, Newsweek, CBS and other communications vehicles."

In 1951 Allen W. Dulles persuaded Cord Meyer to join the CIA. However, there is evidence that he was recruited several years earlier and had been spying on the liberal organizations he had been a member of in the later 1940s. According to Deborah Davis, Meyer became Mockingbird's "principal operative".

One of the most important journalists under the control of Operation Mockingbird was Joseph Alsop, whose articles appeared in over 300 different newspapers. Other journalists willing to promote the views of the CIA included Stewart Alsop (New York Herald Tribune), Ben Bradlee (Newsweek), James Reston (New York Times), Charles Douglas Jackson (Time Magazine), Walter Pincus (Washington Post), William C. Baggs (Miami News), Herb Gold (Miami News) and Charles Bartlett (Chattanooga Times). According to Nina Burleigh (A Very Private Woman) these journalists sometimes wrote articles that were commissioned by Frank Wisner. The CIA also provided them with classified information to help them with their work.

After 1953 the network was overseen by Allen W. Dulles, director of the Central Intelligence Agency. By this time Operation Mockingbird had a major influence over 25 newspapers and wire agencies. These organizations were run by people with well-known right-wing views such as William Paley (CBS), Henry Luce (Time Magazine and Life Magazine), Arthur Hays Sulzberger (New York Times), Alfred Friendly (managing editor of the Washington Post), Jerry O'Leary (Washington Star), Hal Hendrix (Miami News), Barry Bingham Sr., (Louisville Courier-Journal), James Copley (Copley News Services) and Joseph Harrison (Christian Science Monitor).

The Office of Policy Coordination (OPC) was funded by siphoning of funds intended for the Marshall Plan. Some of this money was used to bribe journalists and publishers. Frank Wisner was constantly looked for ways to help convince the public of the dangers of communism. In 1954 Wisner arranged for the funding the Hollywood production of Animal Farm, the animated allegory based on the book written by George Orwell.

SOURCE:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm



Today, of course, we have Corporate McPravda, "The Mighty Whorelitzer."

PS: Truly appreciate the kind words, evolvenow! It's the greatest payment for this most dreary of word-work. It's worse than getting blood on one's hands -- this stuff sticks in one's mind.
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evolvenow Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Yep, even as a child I was allergic to newspapers and TV, knew it stunk
then, and eventually learned my instincts were correct. You have an amazing gift of presenting urgent truths, that could really shift this world away from war. I cannot wait unti the "Shift Hits the Fan". Hopefully, it will be soon.

Everyone needs to know about Mockingbird, then everyone will stop blathering about the media and really understand WHY nothing that is important or truthful is ever broadcast. It is propaganda, designed, packaged, to keep wars a rollin. Blecccch!

Keep posting your fantastic posts, every person that learns the real story is another light in a time of darkness.

Take care


and lets KICK the WAR CRIMINALS OUT, use all the corrupt $$$ for humanitarian efforts in the US and around the world. Now that would be poetic justice, ayy?

KEEP Kick-ing
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-10-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. Truly fascinating stuff.
Thanks!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. White House Tapes: Nixon Wanted to Show Up JFK
Hey, Jeff in Georgia! You're welcome.

The Oval Office taping system caught how much the proto-crook reeeeeealy didn't like the Kennedys. No wonder E Howard Hunt got the OK -- or took the initiative -- to create phony cables: It was policy to revise history.





Presidential Tapes: Nixon Wanted to Show Up JFK

EXCERPT...

March 28, 1973, the Executive Office Building. Despite Nixon's insistence, secret CIA and State Department files on the Diem assassination and the Bay of Pigs are not made public. The President's frustration continues for months, and years:

Nixon: Did you get the word on the declassification of everything over 10 years? That's got to move fast. And not only ((unintelligible)) but the other one's important -- on the Bay of Pigs. Just get the damn thing out, will you? That's going to be quite a story -- a few little morsels. Do you agree?

Haldeman: Yeah.

Nixon: Also gets into the Diem murder and the whole Diem thing. Now the war is over and we're not going to take Henry's crap. Henry's a little bit involved in that himself. That's why he doesn't want some of it declassified.

May 13, 1973, the White House. A telephone conversation between the president and Gen. Alexander Haig, his military adviser. The president, still harping on Diem and the Bay of Pigs, mentions the White House operative E. Howard Hunt, who fabricated diplomatic cables and documents implicating Kennedy:

Nixon: I think we should just declassify everything going back -- everything that's 10 years old, and declassify the whole Bay of Pigs, plus the Diem thing. Goddammit, you know, that's -- that can only be helpful. Now you say, "Well, it'll stir things up in Vietnam." The hell with it. You don't like that, huh?

Haig: I'm not sure, sir. I think it's a thing that should be considered. ...

Nixon: Doggone it, I'd like to do it, because -- look, I have not looked at the Bay of Pigs stuff, but I know there's stuff in there that makes ((McGeorge)) Bundy ((Kennedy's national security adviser)) look like a goddamn -- uh, you know, terrible. ... Goddammit, you know what happened is, they set in motion a chain of events which resulted in the murder of Diem.

Haig: Oh, there's no question about that. None. ... In fact, you know, the vice president's aide was there. He was Lodge's assistant ((when Henry Cabot Lodge was ambassador to South Vietnam)). I talked to him some years ago about that.

Nixon: What'd he say?

Haig: He said ... the poor guy called Lodge on the phone, and said, "They're going to kill me, for God's sake, send some Marine guards up here."

Nixon: This is a good juicy thing to get out. ... I mean, that was what Hunt was looking into, you know, and screwed it up. But the point is, there's a hell of a record there. Now, somebody -- have you got some trusted person that can look at that goddamn thing, and let's declassify it. It's 10 years old, huh?

Haig: Yes, I can get somebody to do it.

May 14, 1973, the Executive Office Building:

Nixon: I want the Diem, and the Bay of Pigs totally declassified, and I want it done in 48 hours. Now you tell Haig that. It'll drive him up the wall, too. But I want it done. Do you understand? This is 10 years old! Declassify it. We've got a couple of ((expletive)) working on this thing. Do you see any reason why it shouldn't be declassified, Ron?

Ronald Ziegler, press secretary: No, I see no reason.

Nixon: I want them to get off -- now, Haig is disturbed because of the ironies involved in the murder of Diem. Now listen, this government murdered him. I know it and you know it too.

SOURCE (with more interesting conversation and lousy muzak):

http://www.anusha.com/nixontap.htm

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
17. Octafish what would we do without you! Thanks for all your work dudie!
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Did the U.S. Military Plan a Nuclear First Strike in 1963?
While looking up some of the stuff on Harriman and Vietnam, I found this remarkable story: The Joint Chiefs of Staff had their eyes set on getting rid of the Soviet Union, once and for all -- just like in Dr. Strangelove.





Did the U.S. Military Plan a Nuclear First Strike in 1963?

EXCERPT...

The Burris Memorandum

The memorandum reproduced here was written for Vice President Lyndon Johnson, who did not attend the meeting, by Colonel Howard Burris, his military aide. Declassified only in June of 1993, it has not previously received any public attention so far as we have been able to determine.

The first paragraph introduces General Hickey and his group, the Net Evaluation Subcommittee. Although the subcommittee report is described as "annual," this would be the first one given to President Kennedy and his advisors, and it is not clear whether President Eisenhower received such reports in person. General Lyman Lemnitzer, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, stepped in to explain the "assumption" of the 1961 report: "a surprise attack in late 1963, preceded by a period of heightened tensions." The question arises: A surprise attack by whom on whom?

The following paragraphs answer the question. The second paragraph reports that after hearing the presentations, President Kennedy asked the presenters "if there had ever been made an assessment of damage results to the U.S.S.R. which would be incurred by a preemptive attack." Kennedy also asked for an effectiveness trend since "these studies have been made since 1957." Lemnitzer responded that he would later answer both of the President's questions in private.

Paragraph three records Kennedy asking a hypothetical question: what would happen if we launched a strike in the winter of 1962? Allen Dulles of the CIA responded that "the attack would be much less effective since there would be considerably fewer missiles involved." Lemnitzer then cautioned against putting too much faith in the findings since the assumptions might be faulty. The discussion thus provides a time-frame. December of 1962 was too early for an attack because the U.S. would have too few missiles; by December of 1963 there would likely be sufficient numbers.

Paragraph four reports one more Kennedy question: how much time would "citizens" need to remain in shelters following an attack? The President receives a qualified estimate of two weeks from a member of the subcommittee. The group was clearly talking about U.S. citizens protecting themselves from the globe-encircling fallout following a U.S. nuclear attack on the U.S.S.R.

CONTINUED...

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=V...



From Galbraith's article above:

McGeorge Bundy evidently refers to the same meeting in this passage:

In the summer of 1961 went through a formal briefing on the net assessment of a general nuclear war between the two superpowers, and he expressed his own reaction to Dean Rusk as they walked from the cabinet room to the Oval Office for a private meeting on other subjects: "And we call ourselves the human race."4

# # #

PS: Aw, shucks, lonestarnot. Really appreciate it what you said. And you're welcome.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. I have learned so much from reading your posts that I almost feel smart!
LOL
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. The aftermath of Bay of Pigs
JFK, Harriman, Bush, Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, McBundy and many more... The whole bunch in one document.


George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography
The history of the Harriman-Walker-Bush clan during the 20th century
- by Webster Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

Chapter 8.2.3: Aftermath of the Bay of Pigs

SNIP...

During the days after the Bay of Pigs debacle, Kennedy was deeply suspicious of the intelligence community and of proposals for military escalation in general, including in places like South Vietnam. Kennedy sought to procure an outside, expert opinion on military matters. For this he turned to the former commander in chief of the Southwest Pacific Theatre during World War II, General Douglas MacArthur. Almost ten years ago , a reliable source shared with one of the authors an account of a meeting between Kennedy and MacArthur in which the veteran general warned the young President that there were elements inside the U.S. government who emphatically did not share his patriotic motives, and who were seeking to destroy his administration from within. MacArthur warned that the forces bent on destroying Kennedy were centered in the Wall Street financial community and its various tentacles in the intelligence community.

It is a matter of public record that Kennedy met with MacArthur in the latter part of April, 1961, after the Bay of Pigs. According to Kennedy aide Theodore Sorenson, MacArthur told Kennedy, "The chickens are coming home to roost, and you happen to have just moved into the chicken house." <10>. At the same meeting, according to Sorenson, MacArthur "warned against the committment of American foot soldiers on the Asian mainland, and the President never forgot this advice." <11>. This point is grudgingly confirmed by Arthur M. Schlesinger, a Kennedy aide who had a vested interest in vilifying MacArthur, who wrote that "MacArthur expressed his old view that anyone wanting to commit American ground forces to the mainland should have his head examined." <12>. MacArthur restated this advice during a second meeting with Kennedy when the General returned from his last trip to the Far East in July, 1961.

Kennedy valued MacArthur's professional military opinion highly, and used it to keep at arms length those advisers who were arguing for escalation in Laos, Vietnam, and elsewhere. He repeatedly invited those who proposed to send land forces to Asia to convince MacArthur that this would as good idea. If they could convince MacArthur, then he, Kennedy, might also go along.

At this time, the group proposing escalation in Vietnam (as well as preparing the assassination of President Diem) had a heavy Brown Brothers, Harriman / Skull and Bones overtone: the hawks of 1961-63 were Harriman, McGeorge Bundy, William Bundy, Henry Cabot Lodge, and some key London oligarchs and theoreticians of counterinsurgency wars. And of course, George Bush during these years was calling for escalation in Vietnam and challenging Kennedy to "muster the courage" to try a second invasion of Cuba.

SNIP..

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay....
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
42. Kennedy stood in their way.
The young President Kennedy really bugged the Establishment,
those who "understood the ways of the world."

It is for them who the BFEE today toil. War. Gold. Oil.

And all the property does flow their way.



Reminds me of ancient Roman days.



V. THE KENNEDY-CIA DIVERGENCE OVER CUBA

It is inconceivable that a secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with all the overt orders of the government." -- James Angleton<1>

Two recent books on the tribulations of the Kennedy presidency have attributed the brothers aggressiveness towards Cuba in 1963 to (in the words of Alexander Haig, a junior observer) the impatient prodding of Robert Kennedy.<2> Both books argue further (though in different ways) that Bobbys dabbling in these murderous operations somehow contributed to his brothers murder.<3>

I shall suggest in this chapter that in 1963, after the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Kennedys Cuban operations were carefully thought out, and not just attributable as Mahoney suggests to Bobbys violent antipathy to Castro.<4> On the contrary, we shall see that their timing corroborates what JFK himself spoke of in 1963, the targeting of Cuba as part of an elaborate tit-for-tat chess game with the Soviet Union, to retaliate against what were perceived to be Soviet aggressions elsewhere:

As he had explained to the National Security Council on January 22, 1963We can use Cuba to limit Soviet actions in the way the Russians use Berlin to limit our actions. Now, on April 19, faced with Communist moves in Southeast Asia, the President remarked at least twice that he wanted to link the continued Soviet presence in Cuba with Communist activities in Laos. The Soviets, he commented, were continuing the type of harassment effort that we had stopped by the Cuban exiles, and they were not moving out of Cuba as we wished.<5>

It does not appear that the Kennedys shared this higher rationale for their Cuban tactics with either the CIA or the Joint Chiefs. Both the CIA and the Pentagon had been at odds with the White House following the Kennedys failure to bail out the disastrous Bay of Pigs fiasco. In addition the Joint Chiefs of Staff had been excluded from Ex Comm meetings after their recommendations of an invasion to remove Castro from power.<6> It is clear that the Kennedys tight control over Cuban ops, for purposes which were either not understood or not shared by subordinates, contributed to further tensions within an already divided administration. Above all, as CIA officer Walter Elder told Seymour Hersh, There was an intense dislike in CIA for Bobby.<7>

In all the discussions about the John F. Kennedy assassination, there have been major disagreements about the full range of Kennedy's policies in 1963 towards Cuba. It is clear however that he was simultaneously pursuing more than one "track" in 1963, and that in one of these tracks -- the exploration of a possible accommodation with Castro through direct contacts -- the President pointedly excluded the CIA.

CONTINUED...

http://www.history-matters.com/pds/DP3_Chapter5.htm



And here's where the ancient Greek navy fits in, with Adnan Khashoggi of BCCI Iran-Contra Iraqgate and Selection 2000 fame, having lunch with Richard PNAC Perle. They were talking investing $100 mill in Perle's "Trireme Partnerships," a post-9-11 Carlyle Group -- "strategically investing" in those counterterror-related businesses.

It's like he had a crystal ball, or something, that Perle.



LUNCH WITH THE CHAIRMAN

Why was Richard Perle meeting with Adnan Khashoggi?


by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2003-03-17 Posted 2003-03-10

At the peak of his deal-making activities, in the nineteen-seventies, the Saudi-born businessman Adnan Khashoggi brokered billions of dollars in arms and aircraft sales for the Saudi royal family, earning hundreds of millions in commissions and fees. Though never convicted of wrongdoing, he was repeatedly involved in disputes with federal prosecutors and with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and in recent years he has been in litigation in Thailand and Los Angeles, among other places, concerning allegations of stock manipulation and fraud. During the Reagan Administration, Khashoggi was one of the middlemen between Oliver North, in the White House, and the mullahs in Iran in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal. Khashoggi subsequently claimed that he lost ten million dollars that he had put up to obtain embargoed weapons for Iran which were to be bartered (with Presidential approval) for American hostages. The scandals of those times seemed to feed off each other: a congressional investigation revealed that Khashoggi had borrowed much of the money for the weapons from the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (B.C.C.I.), whose collapse, in 1991, defrauded thousands of depositors and led to years of inquiry and litigation.

Khashoggi is still brokering. In January of this year, he arranged a private lunch, in France, to bring together Harb Saleh al-Zuhair, a Saudi industrialist whose family fortune includes extensive holdings in construction, electronics, and engineering companies throughout the Middle East, and Richard N. Perle, the chairman of the Defense Policy Board, who is one of the most outspoken and influential American advocates of war with Iraq.

The Defense Policy Board is a Defense Department advisory group composed primarily of highly respected former government officials, retired military officers, and academics. Its members, who serve without pay, include former national-security advisers, Secretaries of Defense, and heads of the C.I.A. The board meets several times a year at the Pentagon to review and assess the countrys strategic defense policies.

Perle is also a managing partner in a venture-capital company called Trireme Partners L.P., which was registered in November, 2001, in Delaware. Triremes main business, according to a two-page letter that one of its representatives sent to Khashoggi last November, is to invest in companies dealing in technology, goods, and services that are of value to homeland security and defense. The letter argued that the fear of terrorism would increase the demand for such products in Europe and in countries like Saudi Arabia and Singapore.

The letter mentioned the firms government connections prominently: Three of Triremes Management Group members currently advise the U.S. Secretary of Defense by serving on the U.S. Defense Policy Board, and one of Triremes principals, Richard Perle, is chairman of that Board. The two other policy-board members associated with Trireme are Henry Kissinger, the former Secretary of State (who is, in fact, only a member of Triremes advisory group and is not involved in its management), and Gerald Hillman, an investor and a close business associate of Perles who handles matters in Triremes New York office. The letter said that forty-five million dollars had already been raised, including twenty million dollars from Boeing; the purpose, clearly, was to attract more investors, such as Khashoggi and Zuhair

CONTINUED...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030317fa_fact





BTW: Wouldn't know where we are today without Tarpley and Chaitkin. The BFEE doesn't like Professor Scott -- and a whole lot more brave truth tellers -- one wee bit, in all likelihood, either. Ha ha ha ha!!!!



The TRUTH makes the most powerful weapon.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
21. It would be in American's best interests to break up this network,...
,...of corruption and corporate war-profiteers once and for all.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. Truth and Justice Will Prevail Over the BFEE
Agree with you wholeheartedly, Just Me. And let's work toward that day by spreading the word on these turds.





BUSH CRIME FAMILY LINKS

Bush Family Connection Research Sites


The following are links to information about the Bush family, the
Bush cabinet appointees and the corporations, think tanks and
foundations that are behind the GW Bush administration. My
including these links to materials other than the articles I wrote
is not to be considered an endorsement of any statement they
contain.

These links connect to sites run by the left, the religious right,
conservative think tanks, political independents and the
mainstream media. Some are pro-Bush and are included for
cross reference value. All links were good as of this writing so if
you get a message to the contrary keep trying -they are busy
sites. When you cut and paste the web adresses or type them in
there must be no added spaces or characters or else you will
not be able to access the sites. Within each of these sites you
can do a word search on Bush or any other word or name that
interests you.

These materials, which are only a tiny fraction of what's out there,
will help you to see through the blitzkrieg of false information we
are all being subject to about GW Bush and his cabinet. Please
forward these links to your friends, the media, elected officials
and anyone else with an interest in knowing the real story behind
the 43rd President of the United States.

CONTINUE TO LINK CITY...

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/bushcrimefamily.htm



That's a heck of a list.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
22. They assassinated Diem on 11/2/63 ..
It took them another three weeks to get JFK.



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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Dr. Martin Luther King jr. about Diem + Pentagon Papers


There can be some mistakes in the transcript, because I couldn't find a transcript so I had to do it by hand, but it is one of his most important speeches.


Martin Luther King - Why I oppose the war in Vietnam
Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, GA, April 30, 1967

In 1954 a converence was called in Geneva and an agreement was reached.. by even after that we did not stop. We must face the sad fact that our government sought in real sense to sabotage the Geneva accords.

(...)
but instead the United States came and started supporting a man named, who turned out to be one of the most ruthless dictators in the history of the world. Who set out to silence all opposition. People were brutally murdered because they spoke out against the brutal policies of Diem.

(...)
And who are we supporting in Vietnam today. It's man with the name of General Ky who fought with the French against his own people and who said on one occassion that the greatest hero of his life is Hitler. This is who we are supporting in Vietnam today.

Our government and the press generally won't tell us these things, but God told me to tell you this morning. The truth most be told!

(...)
The western arrogance that it has everything to teach to others and nothing to learn from them is not just! A true revolution of values will lay hands on the world order and say of war: "This way of settling differences is not just."

This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into veins of people normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice and love.

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.


MP3 at http://www.wrybread.com/misc/vietnam/index.shtml


The Pentagon Papers. Also this story sounds familiar. Lodge gave the option that Diem should surrender and if he did he would have safe conduct out of the country.


The Pentagon Papers
Gravel Edition
Volume 2
Chapter 4, "The Overthrow of Ngo Dinh Diem, May-November, 1963," pp. 201-276.
(Boston: Beacon Press, 1971)
Section 1, pp. 201-232

(...)
Shortly after Ambassador Lodge and Admiral Felt had called on Diem on November 1, the generals made their move, culminating a summer and fall of complex intrigue. The coup was led by General Minh, the most respected of the senior generals, together with Generals Don, Kim and Khiem. They convoked a meeting of all but a few senior officers at JGS headquarters at noon on the day of the coup, announced their plans and got the support of their compatriots.

The coup itself was executed with skill and swiftness. They had devoted special attention to ensuring that the major potentially loyal forces were isolated and their leaders neutralized at the outset of the operation. By the late afternoon of November 1, only the palace guard remained to defend the two brothers.

At 4:30 p.m., Diem called Lodge to ask where the U.S. stood. Lodge was noncommital and confined himself to concern for Diem's physical safety. The conversation ended inconclusively. The generals made repeated calls to the palace offering the brothers safe conduct out of the country if they surrendered, but the two held out hope until the very end.

Sometime that evening they secretly slipped out of the palace through an underground escape passage and went to a hide-away in Cholon. There they were captured the following morning after their whereabouts was learned when the palace fell. Shortly the two brothers were murdered in the back of an armored personnel carrier en route to JGS headquarters.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon2/pent6.ht...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
44. There may've been two CIAs.
One faction was infiltrated by the KGB.

In Moscow, the KGB had a faction infiltrated by the CIA.

Now which did what, together or separately, is open to conjecture.

The end result is visible for all to see:

A 45-year long Cold War that proved most profitable to the two nation's ruling elites.



There are people who'd trade all the stuff in the world to bring back those lost to the BFEE.

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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. Read Norman Mailer's "Oswald's Tale."
In 1959 the KGB and its military equivalent suspected that Oswald was a CIA agent on a mission to the USSR. Mailer has transcripts of tapes made from bugs in Lee Harvey and Marina's Minsk apartment. It is fascinating stuff.




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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:34 PM
Original message
Always wanted to. Will do.
While you've probably edited these, DemoTex, here are a couple you may enjoy:

Spy Saga by Philip H. Melanson

Oswald and the CIA by John M. Newman

Without scholars like these, this stuff would get pretty maddening.

For instance, J Edgar Hoover feared the Oswald who un-defected was a substitute.

http://www.jfklancer.com/Courtwright1.html


And there were problems with all the phony Oswalds who turned up to buy cars and trucks when the original was overseas.

http://www.jfklancer.com/Page1.html


Then there's the Oswald-David Ferrie friendship thing:


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Always wanted to. Will do.
While you've probably edited these, DemoTex, here are a couple you may enjoy:

Spy Saga by Philip H. Melanson

Oswald and the CIA by John M. Newman

Without scholars like these, this stuff would get pretty maddening.

For instance, J Edgar Hoover feared the Oswald who un-defected was a substitute.

http://www.jfklancer.com/Courtwright1.html


And there were problems with all the phony Oswalds who turned up to buy cars and trucks when the original was overseas.

http://www.jfklancer.com/Page1.html


Then there's the Oswald-David Ferrie friendship thing:


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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
48. The day the last thread of Democracy ended here in the USA
Politics and legislatures are side show. If the Mobsters can't find a way to get what they want they will smash what ever possesses it. The last century is filled with examples of their handy work
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Bill ORights Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. Terrific--and very chilling. Thanks! NT
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Welcome to DU :)
:toast:
You have a wonderful signature.

For the BFEE:
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

1. Information is our strength
2. If we use information, we put an end to ignorance
3. If we have ended ignorance, we will end slavery
4. If we have ended slavery, we will end the war

Welcome to the Infowar.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Nazis in America
You're welcome, Bill ORights. And a most hearty welcome to DU! Really like the moniker.



Hey! Didya ever read this about the friends of the Bushes?



Nazi's In America

MYRNA ESTEP, ph.D.

Introduction

Some Hateful Ideas
And Their Legacy in the Conservative Right*


Sometimes it only takes a little time for even the most hateful ideas to catch on. With enough power and moneyespecially money--the most heinous ideas can become "acceptable" and appear "respectable" to some. Such are the ideas of white male racial superiority and the implied right to power over all others. This includes the additional implied right to "phase out" of existence others who are held to be inferior. These ideas and their underlying rationale were the basis of Hitler's National Socialism. Though Allied Forces put an end to Hitler and his Third Reich over fifty years ago, ideas of Nazism are still very much alive. They are still wreaking pain, suffering, and death on those whom the Powerful decide are unfit to live.

SNIP...

A Dramatic Shift to the Conservative Right in America

EXCERPT...

Most importantly, Schmaltz provides us with an invaluable overview of the American Nazi Party's evolution to its present forms, the Christian Identity movement, Aryan Nations, and the Order. Certain of Rockwell's original Stormtroopers, such as William Peirce, head of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, have carried forward the Nazi creed and agenda of Rockwell's ANP. The last part of the book, the Epilogue, provides a very useful summary of that evolution and development, as well as an outline of the similarities and differences between the Conservatives of Rockwell's time and present-day Conservatives of the 1980's and 1990's.

SNIP...

By Any Other Name. . . Threads of the American Nazi Party in the Conservative Right

Hiding behind nice-sounding labels and linguistic equivocations, some of these ugly Nazi ideaswith a few twists-- are rearing their heads yet again in the Conservative Right across the United States. To help these hateful ideas catch hold, the Conservative Right uses virtuous labels in political "bait and switch" tactics. In one hand, they offer the Public an idea labeled Good and Kind. When the Public reaches for that idea, it turns out -sometimes too late for the Public to reject--to be something Ugly, Brutal, and Cruel.

One such label is "Compassionate Conservatism." In one hand, the Public at large is handed an idea of racial and ethnic "inclusiveness" and help for "those who really need it." It is an idea that even gets championed by token African American and Hispanic marionettes who dance to the tune of Conservative Right Big Money. (22)

In reality, "Compassionate Conservatism" is George W. and Big Money's Conservative Right ideological program of brutal and cruel war against the poor, children, women, and non-white minorities. It is not so well hidden under various rhetorical and linguistic masks intended to cover the harsh brutality of its effects on its targets. In reality, it is a program of hateful brutality intended to diminish the lives or "phase out" of existence those most in need. It is a program intended to eliminate federal or state help to the poor and others most in need of food, health care, decent housing, clean air and water, and civil and criminal due process. It is a program of brutality against the most defenseless in our society.(23)

"Compassionate Conservatism," its progenitors say, is "Tough Love." But what these well-fed, well-kept and pseudo-intellectuals from Texas are calling "Tough Love" has left a large percentage of the poorest children in Texas hungry. Most of those children, of course, are African American and Hispanic. What they call "love" has left far too many Texas children with little or no medical care while also living in severely impoverished conditions. What these ideologues call "love" leaves children not only without enough to eat, without sufficient healthcare, it also leaves them without even minimal protections for their welfare and safety under the law, and without adequate education. What these well-fed and well-kept theorists call "love" builds more prisons than schools every year to house juveniles, alongside those whose miserable lives have led either by design or by accident to the ravages of crime. What these sophisticates call "love" is a program of vicious cruelty that arrogantly engages in the official machinery of death. It engages that official machinery even for those not old enough to vote when they commit crimes for which they are imprisoned. It is a program that denies even the semblance of justice to the most poor, mentally deficient and diseased. Moreover, what these "compassionate conservatives" call "love" is a program that has the effect of forcing pregnancy on economically disadvantaged pre-teen girls while it denies them sufficient legal and medical means to protect or care for themselves.

CONTINUED...

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/nazis_in...




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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
24. Well done.
After the movie "JFK" came out, a number of my friends would say that Dallas represented a coup in American. It didn't. As this post shows, JFK represented the coup. He was moving in a direction that this enemies had feared he might. Dallas was a re-alignment, with some of the older hands moving behind the scenes, thus increasing the American investment in violence in Vietnam, destroying the potential for social progress in Latin American, and sending a very clear message to the next two presidents about why they needed to do what the cabal requested.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #24
51. Oil Empire USA
Thanks, Waterman! I know most of this is old news to you and those who like to read, but there are still bunches of people who support this corrupt regime. From what I can see, we're making inroads with them, too. That's DU in no small part to your efforts.



Here's a handy resource:

http://www.oilempire.us/jfk.html

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. One of the best teaching techniques
is to review material from time to time. With a larger group, which has people who are very familiar to not at all familiar, the discussions take on a most meaningful form. And even an old dog like myself learns something new from the participation of other members, including those who are seeing things for the first time. I always look forward to reading these threads.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. Blueprint for World Domination
The things one finds while surfing the net...



The rich ARE different. To stay that way, some would kill.



The Bush Crime Family:
Four Generations of Wall Street War-Making and War-Profiteering


By Dr. Eric Karlstrom
August, 2004

Introduction

Henry Ford, founder of Ford Motor Company, once stated there are two classes of financiers: 1) Those who profit from war and use their influence to bring about war for profit, and 2) constructive financiers. Ford Motor Co., along with about 100 other major U.S. banks and corporations, belongs to the first group (see C. Highams Trading with the Enemy). Indeed, Ford himself was actually decorated by the Nazis for his service to Nazism.

Other prominent international banking families that simultaneously bankrolled Hitler, Stalin, and Roosevelt during the first half of the 20th century include the Rockefellers (Standard Oil Company, Chase Bank), the Rothschilds, the Schiffs, the Warburgs, and the Bushes, among others.

Why would the worlds richest individuals simultaneously fund communism in Russia, fascism in Germany, and socialist democracy in the United States? Georgetown historian Carrol Quigley put it this way: The powers of financial capitalism had a far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. These financial powers had learned that war is the most profitable of all businesses and also the most effective means of changing the global political landscape. Thus, over the past 2 centuries at least, they have covertly manipulated politicians and nations into wars. Their ultimate goal was and is to establish a New World Order, a totalitarian one-world government ruled by the very few and very rich, i.e., them. Des Griffin has termed this a Fourth Reich of the Rich (Griffin, 1976). George Orwell and Aldous Huxley described what such a world might look like in their classic novels, 1984 and Brave New World.

President George Herbert Walker Bush was not the first or only prominent man to proclaim this New World Order. Hitler, President Woodrow Wilson, author H.G. Wells and innumerable other politicians, writers and businessmen have also heralded its immanent arrival. David Rockefeller, Chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank and arguably the most powerful American of the last half-century, proclaimed: We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.

Among the most pro-active implementers of this centuries-old project to establish a one-world government are the Bush family, two of which have risen to become U.S. presidents. A brief summary of their major accomplishments should be sufficient to indicate that their activities constitute the highest crimes against the people of the United States and humanity.

CONTINUED...

http://www.communitycurrency.org/BushCrimeFamily.html



Truly appreciate reading about the importance of discussion in learning. The free-flow of ideas makes possible learning and awakening. Perhaps people can best be convinced of something, or encouraged to change their minds, by another person they trust.

PS: Thanks for the kind words, H2O Man! And I look forward to reading what you have to say. You always add to the conversation.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #68
73. One of the most important points
that you series documents is that in the WW2 era, a group of those who anticipated the leading nations were already entering the post-industrial age (which would render the definitions of "capitalism, socialism, and communism" meaningless for all practical purposes), and who saw what that represented for old-fashioned "colonialism" in terms of resources and markets, joined forces in an unholy alliance. And that is what the senior President Bush spoke of when he made reference to a "New World Order" ..... something that had been established long before, but that had experienced a shift with the change in the Russian set-up, and in the European alliance.

When we recognize this, we see that the Bush family is not alone the great power that lies behind every event in the world, or even in the USA. The series of direct connections and inter-connectedness between the Bush family and other evil-doers is real, but does not make them the Wizards of Oz, pulling all levers behind a curtain. It's far worse: it is a larger, more entrenched system that allows even the least disciplined, most ignorant son of a powerful family to become president simply because he wants to, and for that system to benefit from having the least qualified person in the United States to serve as commander in chief.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
29. Butler's "War is a Racket" thread,...
,...plays nicely with this one.

Who profits from war? Never the ones asked to fight it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
52. Gen. Smedley Butler twice awarded Medal of Honor, and he saved Democracy.
When the New Deal was starting to take off, some of America's rich grew worried they'd have to pay for it. So they figured out a plan to have a big march on Washington and force FDR out. They tapped Maj. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler to lead the new "government." Good thing they did. The patriot turned the treasonous bastards in.





The Attempted Coup Against FDR

By Barbara LaMonica

The John F. Kennedy assassination represents a theme in our political history. The causes, even the inevitability, of the assassination were born out of the power struggles among the ruling elite which are consistent throughout the American story. These struggles revolve around questions of what is the proper role of government vis a vis the business communitys pursuit of its own self-interest. Is the governments role minimal or laissez-faire? Should government only provide a stable environment of "law and order", through increased police powers, conducive to the maximization of profits and the minimization of workers wages and benefits? Or does the government have a higher purpose? Is it responsible for the common good? Is it the one entity capable of implementing justice, equality, and a partial redistribution of wealth through the regulation and taxation of corporations in order to provide a cushion against the more egregious effects of the free market? Should it ensure the workers share in the profits they helped to create?

At various times factions of what has become known as "corporate America" have argued over which role of government is ultimately more advantageous to their own ends. Generally speaking, banking and Wall Street favor less government. Retail, light manufacturing and small to medium size corporations are more tolerant of an activist government which might put more money in the hands of their consumers, and protect small businesses against the unfair competitive practices of larger corporations.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of governments role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Partys nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veterans army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butlers claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.

CONTINUED...

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html



BFEE may've started on 22 November 1963, but those it toils for have worked against the Constitution much longer than that terrible date.
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Jara sang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. As always, great report Octafish.
Are the Browns of Brown Brothers Harriman the same Browns as in Kellogg, Brown and Root?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #30
56. From what I can tell, only through Adam and Eve.
Thanks for the kind words, Jara sang. Reading people give a damn means everything to me.

Regarding the relationship between the two firms: I am not certain of what, if any, connection exists between the two firms. From what I found, they were started by two different Browns or family branches.

Here's the "official" Brown Brothers Harriman history:







Constrast with an NPR version on KBR in the early 1960s and Halliburton toaday:



Halliburton Deals Recall Vietnam-Era Controversy
Cheney's Ties to Company Reminiscent of LBJ's Relationships

Cheney's Role in Halliburton Contracts Debated

Examining Halliburton's 'Sweetheart' Deal in Iraq




From 'Builders'/ Texas A&M University Press
A help wanted poster for Brown & Root's shipbuilding division. The company's contracts with the U.S. Navy in Vietnam helped fuel rumors of cronyism with the Johnson administration.

All Things Considered, December 24, 2003 Current criticism over Halliburton's lucrative Iraq contracts has some historians drawing parallels to a similar controversy involving the company during Lyndon B. Johnson's administration.

Nearly 40 years ago, Halliburton faced almost identical charges over its work for the U.S. government in Vietnam -- allegations of overcharging, sweetheart contracts from the White House and war profiteering. Back then, the company's close ties to President Johnson became a liability. Today -- as NPR's John Burnett reports in the last of a three-part series -- Halliburton seems to be distancing itself from its former chief executive officer, Vice President Dick Cheney.

The story of Halliburton's ties to the White House dates back to the 1940s, when a Texas firm called Brown & Root constructed a massive dam project near Austin. The company's founders, Herman and George Brown, won the contract to build Mansfield Dam thanks to the efforts of Johnson, who was then a Texas congressman.

After Johnson took over the Oval Office, Brown & Root won contracts for huge construction projects for the federal government. By the mid-1960s, newspaper columnists and the Republican minority in Congress began to suggest that the company's good luck was tied to its sizable contributions to Johnson's political campaign.

More questions were raised when a consortium of which Brown & Root was a part won a $380 million contract to build airports, bases, hospitals and other facilities for the U.S. Navy in South Vietnam. By 1967, the General Accounting Office had faulted the "Vietnam builders" -- as they were known -- for massive accounting lapses and allowing thefts of materials.

CONTINUED...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15...



Odd how today, through the miracle of convergent devolution, the BFEE has benefited from both. Still, it's nice work, if you can get it.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
32. Can't make trillions selling arms if there aren't any wars. It's the Bush
family bidness for nearly a hundred years now.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #32
57. These turds like Switzerland neutral for a reason.
They can play both sides off the middle and know their loot's safe. It's like a Sergio Leone movie (if they only knew):



From Elizabeth Drew and Kevin Phillips comes ammo for use when discussing the Booshes with their supporters:



Bush Family Values

Elizabeth Drew
review | posted February 12, 2004 (March 1, 2004 issue)

EXCERPT...

His essential point is that the Bush and Walker families--as in George Herbert Walker Bush and George Walker Bush--became powerful and wealthy through connivance, connections and counterfeit. Or, as Phillips puts it, "deceit and disinformation."

SNIP...

As Phillips points out, the Episcopalian, establishment Connecticut Yankee Bushes have transmogrified into wildcatting, fundamentalist Texans. Even the "wildcatting" is a fraud, Phillips argues: Midland, Texas, where Bush pre settled after leaving Connecticut, is one of the wealthiest oases in the nation. George W. was eased into the oil business, as he was eased into all of his adult jobs--including, arguably, the presidency--through powerful, wealthy family friends, or "crony capitalism." When his businesses failed, family friends bailed him out. The lucrative buyouts of his oil business and of his shares in the Texas Rangers baseball team were arranged by family connections.

As Phillips recounts, the family fortune was started by George W. Bush's greatgrandfathers, the business entrepreneurs George Herbert Walker and Samuel Bush, both of whom were engaged in finance. Phillips finds several generational similarities among the Bushes. And he thinks, more than I do, that George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush look alike. In my observation, Bush the son resembles his mother--both in his facial structure and temperament. Both pass as easygoing and both are more than a little mean. Phillips quotes George W. as having said, "I have my daddy's eyes and my mother's mouth."

Phillips argues that the Walker and Bush families, along with other wealthy investment bankers, profited mightily from the rearmament efforts after the end of the First World War and were prominent members of the "military-industrial complex," about which Dwight Eisenhower warned at the end of his eight-year presidency, and which Phillips traces back to "the construction of a large steel-clad navy in the 1880s and 1890s" but really took shape during the First World War. (Phillips dedicates the book to Eisenhower and cites that particular excerpt from Eisenhower's farewell address.) The two families, he writes, were involved with "the mainstays of the twentieth-century American national security state: finance, oil and energy, the federal government...and the CIA, the National Security Agency, and the rest of the intelligence community." After Pearl Harbor was attacked, Phillips argues, "many who had cut their teeth during the 1917-18 mobilization were given much larger war-related responsibilities, cementing earlier elite credentials." And before he entered the Senate, George H.W.'s father, Prescott Bush, was a prominent Wall Street investment banker. "No previous presidential family," Phillips writes, "has been so wholeheartedly involved with a single economic sector over two generations, yet with so little scrutiny of the resulting narrowness of its public policy views." Inevitably, Phillips spends considerable time on the subject of oil. "Both Bush chief executives," he writes, "have been powerfully influenced and biased by their Texas milieu, especially in economic matters."

Of the old-school financiers, Phillips says that they "also diverted--one should not think they deserted--to Midland, the Ivy League beachhead in a boom-flushed state where the larger oil and oil service firms still had major ownership ties to Wall Street and the East." Midland was one of the two main towns (along with Odessa) in the Permian Basin, which, Phillips writes, "represented one of the century's great American wealth opportunities, which nobody knew better than the New York capitalists." (In a footnote, Phillips points out that by the year 2000 Alaska was the only state to produce more oil and gas than the Permian Basin.) This is where the "entrepreneurial" Bushes planted themselves. Phillips points out the nexus between oil profits and tax shelters, on which the industry is heavily dependent for profits, and asserts that investment bankers kept bailing out Bush fils. And Bush pre's brothers and sons--all but George W.--went into the investment business. As for George W.'s business career, Phillips writes, it "was spent primarily in obtaining new financing or lining up rescuers for his unsuccessful oil and gas ventures," and he quotes one wag as observing that every time George W. "drilled a dry hole...someone always filled it up with money for him." At Yale, Phillips notes, Bush the son wanted to be a stockbroker who amassed great wealth. He didn't become a stockbroker, but he did amass great wealth.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20040301&s=drew



The BFEE: A Fistfull of Treason.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
71. Oops. Sorry about the bad word, leesa. Why I use it to describe BFEE...
They deserve it.

If it sinks, it's a Cheney.

If it floats, it's a Bush.



How the BFEE did it:



Former Federal Prosecutor John Loftus confirms the Bush-Nazi scandal

Copyright October 31. 2003

Some of our most famous American families, including the Bushes, made their fortunes from the Holocaust. Before I tell this awful story, I have to admit that I am a Democrat, but I quite like this President. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has a good heart, and the good sense not to follow in his father's footsteps. "W" has some good people around him who keep a firewall in the White House against his father's oil cronies. In terms of Republican politics, "W" is a rebel.

SNIP

These long buried US government files demonstrate that the Bush family stayed on the corporate boards of Nazi front groups even after they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were helping the financial cause of the Third Reich. It was all about the money. Nazi Germany is where the Bush family fortune came from, and where the Harrimans, and the Rockefellers increased their fortunes to obscene proportions.

Of course some of them were quite rich to begin with. The Harriman railroad monopoly helped create the Rockefeller oil monopoly in the 1800's. Their despicable price fixing schemes earned them the press label "the Robber Barons." My favorite Republican Teddy Roosevelt ruined their rapacious profits with his anti-monopoly and anti-trust legislation.

The Robber Barons bribed Congress (it happens) into passing a loophole, the Web-Pomerene Act of 1918 which legalized cartels and monopolies outside the borders of the United States. This loophole law let the Robber Barons loose to prey on a helpless world already ravaged by the human and and financial cost of WWI.

Averil Harriman (patriarch of the famous Democratic family) promptly broke another American law by secretly financing the Bolsheviks while American, British and White Russian troops were still fighting against the infant communist revolution. (The FBI "ARCOS" files on Harriman's connections with the Soviets are quite a read). Harriman bribed Lenin into letting him take over the Czar's cartels, which exported managanese, iron ore and other raw materials. Harriman shipped the Russian raw materials to his German partners, the Thyssens, who had been secretly bought out by the Rockefellers.

CONTINUED

http://www.john-loftus.com/bush_nazi_scandal.asp



But wait. Theres more:



The Rockefeller's lawyers, the Dulles Brothers, had deliberately and systematically bankrupted the German economy with the Versaille Treaty. German currency was almost worthless after WWI, and so the Dulles brother's favorite clients, the Rockefellers, were able to buy the stock of nearly every German company for a song. The great sucking sound that preceeded the Great Depression was the whistling of Wall Street money out of America into Germany, Russia (and as a side deal, Saudi Arabia). Two generations later, we are still paying for it.

CONTINUED

http://www.john-loftus.com/bush_nazi_scandal.asp



What it means for us, now.



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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
33. Bookmarked.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
58. Deja Vu: The Bush Gang Rides Again
Here's something I hope you really like from somebody named Winterboy:





A chronological guide to the destruction of the American dream (in which the present is eerily like the past):

* One Bush is a consultant to President Hoover (the Depression President), and another Bush loses the most American jobs since Hoover!
* One Bush becomes head of the WWI War Industries Board while forging gun parts for the War (enriching family & friends); a second Bush brokers weapons and energy investments for Nazi Germany (enriching family & friends); a third Bush arms friend and foe alike throughout the Middle East and Latin America; a fourth Bush creates the largest defense budget in world history, foments coups in Latin America and invites energy brokers to help plan for war in the Middle East (enriching family & friends)!
* Roger Ailes teaches Nixon and Bushes how to manipulate voters with TV; he later wields his own TV news division to discredit Bush opponents and shoehorn a Bush into the White House!
* Nixon and a Bush fight Communists in Vietnam "so we don't have to fight them here"; Reagan and a Bush fight Russians in Afghanistan and Latin America "so we don't have to fight them here"; George W fights terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq so- you guessed it!
* Working with, and for, Halliburton companies runs in the Bush family; these companies receive lucrative federal contracts since the early '60s, and de-fraud taxpayers repeatedly!
* Hillary Rodham helps run Nixon out of office (while a Bush is fighting to save him); future hubby Bill Clinton confronts racists and the ultra-right in Arkansas (while a Bush is fighting to stop him)!
* Over decades, Bushes use fear to consolidate power- the Red Scare morphs into the Black Menace morphs into Feminist Threat morphs into the Communist Conspiracy morphs into Liberal Erosion morphs into Terrorist Attacks morphs into the Homosexual Takeover!
* One Bush tries to ruin John Kerry's reputation as he protests Nixon's war; Kerry later exposes Reagan-Bush corruption; another Bush tries to ruin Kerry's reputation as he runs for President!
* One Bush sells an unnecessary war using PR firms, manufactured arguments and doctored intelligence, and another Bush sells an even bigger war- against the same enemy- using PR firms, manufactured arguments and doctored intelligence (enriching family & friends)!
* Reverend Moon, Korean head of the Unification Church and promoter of anti-American sentiments, finances Nixon, Reagan, two Bushes and a heavenly host of right-wing religious and political leaders; uses the Washington Times to push mainstream media to the right; often hires Bushes to speak at Moonie-sponsored events; and is protected from criminal investigation by two Bushes and Congressional Republicans!
* One Bush, with friends Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, et al, rises to ultimate power during the second and third most corrupt Administrations in modern times, and his son brings the same gang into the most corrupt Administration of modern times!

See the Bush gang roughride through American history, leaving a trail of corporate malfeasance; broken economies; well-armed dictators; ill-advised war policies; overthrown governments; dead American soldiers and foreign civilians; bamboozled voters, and even mysterious plane crashes! Of course, no outlaws can operate successfully, or for long, without well-placed sycophants and familiars; you'll find them all in DejaVu!

SOURCE:

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html



It's a big enchilada of things we should know. And should the Internets be broken, our children should also have a copy. It's massive; the following is just the table of contents:



Bibliography

ONE: The Foundation of a House Divided, 1701-1900

The founding of Yale University; King George III a man of narrow intellect, little interest in diplomacy, and a propensity to meet force with force; 'Federalist' President John Adams trashes the new Republic; racists attempt to destabilize Union, kill President Lincoln and others; Skull & Bones and the Russell Trust; oil wells originally drilled for kerosene; progressive politics weaken stranglehold of industrial trusts; future Bush family benefactor, railroad baron E.H. Harriman.

TWO: Pushing Against an Iron Fist, 1900-1920
Texas discovers oil; Yale in China; Teddy Roosevelt pushes an anti-trust, progressive agenda; the Bureau of Investigation; Prescott Bush lies about military service; 'deranged loner' tries to kill TRoosevelt; WWI demonstrates world dependence on oil; Bushes, Walkers and Harrimans join forces investing in war; J. Edgar Hoover rises through ranks; Ku Klux Klan grows; American citizens embrace socialist, anti-immigrant and fascist ideologies; Halliburton incorporates; Iraq gives up the oil; race riots sweep America.

THREE: Party Time, 1920-1930
WWI allies carve up Middle East; American fascist groups gain in size, popularity; the Palmer detentions of thousands of European Jews, radicals, progressives; birth of the Red Scare; Bush marries into Walker family; Jew-hater Henry Ford; Bush friends and business associates, John and Allen Dulles- legal counsel to Nazis; Republican Teapot Dome oil scandal; Bush, Walker, Harriman shipping line smuggles German agents, Nazi propaganda, money for bribing American politicians; Union Banking Corp founded by Bush, Harriman, Fritz Thyssen to manage American-German investments and launder Nazi money; J. Edgar Hoover heads the BI; Republican-deregulated stock market collapses under its own corruption; Bush grandfather Walker is director of seven Cuban sugar, rum and railroad companies.

FOUR: The Deepening Ravine, 1931-1939
Brown Brothers, Harriman merge; Bush uncle takes over Cuban directorships; Un-American Activities committee initially investigates US fascist groups, Nazi propaganda activities; Prescott Bush buys into CBS; J. Edgar Hoover manipulates press, politicians, lives the high life; Hitler gains legitimacy with legal and financial aid from Dulles brothers, Bush-Harriman; German Constitution and civil liberties suspended after Reichstag fire; US radio broadcasts 'Christian Fascism' hatred of Jews, Communism, unions, Roosevelt; Nazi-US commerce funneled through Bush, Harriman's UBC; 'deranged loner' shoots at Roosevelt; Socal, later Unocal, obtains exclusive oil concessions in Saudi Arabia; Eugenics movement spreads to US; Hitler's plan to 'Germanize' America; Polish government fights Bush, Harriman, and Nazi stockholders for control of largest industry- Auschwitz the source of workforce; young Richard Nixon recruited for NY law firms by future intelligence czars Dulles brothers and William Donovan; US German groups boycott Jewish merchants; Congressman LBJ slides lucrative contracts to campaign financers Brown & Root (Halliburton); Leo Strauss' Darwinist political ideologies; Jewish mobsters combat anti-semites; new Un-American Activities Committee compiles blacklist of liberals, anti-fascists; German-American Nazi camps in small-town America; House Republians use official perks to disseminate pro-Hitler/fascist literature, visit with Nazi propagandists; many Republicans publicly support Germany while condemning Roosevelt; Hitler invades Poland, ending its ending legal battles with Bush, Harriman.

FIVE: Staring Into the Abyss, 1940-1944
Britain attacks Germany; Roosevelt pressured to stay out of war by pro-German Republicans; Cuban companies under Walker/Bush direction merge to form West Indies Sugar; Cuba good to Richard Nixon; United Fruit Co raids Cuban resources; Nazi Germany manipulates Republican, Democratic party platforms; America First Committee, formed by Henry Ford, Charles Lindberg, Herbert Hoover, pro-Nazi Silver Shirts and Klansmen, attracts nearly a million members (among whom are counted Gerald Ford, JFK, e.e. cummings, Sinclair Lewis, et al); Nixon joins Navy; Brown & Root (Halliburton) receives first military contracts; Roosevelt officially establishes an American intelligence group, the OSS; Harriman appointed US Ambassador; Bush partner advocates terror-bombing of civilians; Pearl Harbor; 'Yale in China' an intelligence front; Congress investigates Nazis payments to House members- lead whistle-blower dies in plane crash; Kennedy boys go to war; Roosevelt seizes three Bush, Harriman, Nazi companies, but allows Bush-Harriman to hold onto stock (Bush likely trades intelligence on German finances); senior George Bush becomes Navy's youngest fighter pilot; United Fruit Co raids Guatemalan resources; Joe Kennedy Jr dies in wartime plane crash.

CONTINUED...

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu.html



PS: Thanks, Turn CO Blue! Much obliged!
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Thanks for the extra info on BFEE!

I was trying to tell someone (dear to me) about just a few of the things I know about the * Mafia, and he was looking at me like I was some nutty tin-foiler -- so I'll be glad to have this stuff bookmarked next time it comes up.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Manhattan's veteran District Attorney Robert Morgenthau Five Star Trust
Edited on Sat Jun-11-05 04:03 PM by seemslikeadream
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/scoops/Lemme.htm

Manhattan's veteran District Attorney Robert Morgenthau is on the verge of penetrating a major conduit for foreign money into the Bush family network and the American political system that parallels the campaign finance scandals in Ohio and Florida. Morgenthau's investigation of the notorious Sam and Charlie Wyly brothers of Texas, the billionaires who spearheaded the Swift Boat disinformation campaign against John Kerry and a similar distortion effort against John McCain in 2000, is focused on a Wyly-controlled Isle of Man off-shore account tied to the Bank of America. In 1989, George H. W. Bush dispatched a Houston attorney to the Isle of Man to take charge of the secret Bush accounts. One of the accounts was Five Star Trust, a multi-billion dollar account used by the Bushes as a covert off-shore money tranche for their political and business purposes.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Five Star Trust
Edited on Sat Jun-11-05 06:47 PM by seemslikeadream
I'm looking back at discussion of Five Star Trust, have these links, if anyone is interested.

Wayne Madsen sent me an email about his fraud article..here's what he says
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen: Curtis, Feeney, Khashoggi link, $29.6 mil check, former CIA!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Activisms-Jeff Fisher-CyberNET scam revealed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
4th Madsen Article:White House-linked operation paid for "vote switching"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen, Five Star Trust, World War II loot
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
ALERT: Madsen story strong/incomplete, WE HAVE AFFIDAVIT
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Transcript of Wayne Madsen interview 12/05 on Sunday Monitor
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen says new article forthcoming re: tieing it together and decoys
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
CyberNET Group CEO killed during standoff - continued discussion please
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Greg Palast Investigation called in gets widespread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen asks for our help into Five Star and "Mr. Horn" (more information)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen's third article!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
WAYNE MADSEN Q&A DU 11/28 PM ------------A COMPILATION
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
I'm having no trouble believing Madsen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Wayne Madsen sent me an email about his fraud article..here's what he says
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Keith is on and he's going to be talking about the new..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Olbermann blogs about Madsen info
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
***Election 2004: 73 SCHOOLS LOCKEDDOWN IN PALM BEACH ***
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Saudis, Enron money helped pay for US rigged election
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Olbermann & Madsen are talking -- KO may change his tune.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Wayne Madsen will be on radio Today! Listen online.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Madsen Updates Report
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
e-mail reply from Mr. Wayne Madsen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Port Vila Presse KICKS BUSH BUTT ON MADSEN STORY
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Because I'm too lazy to read all the stories. What happened to that story
I know it was making headlines back in the election, but he also got a lot of critism. So do you know whether it was debunked or simply faded into the annals of DU.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Here's the latest
Edited on Sun Jun-12-05 08:54 AM by seemslikeadream

Florida Investigator Who Got Too Close to Florida "Coin Gate" Silenced by Jeb Bush's Gangsters

Story Unfolding

Wayne Madsen

FLORIDA PANHANDLE, June 10, 2005 -- Experienced federal investigators, acting independently, have discovered a covert funding channel used by the 2000 and 2004 Bush-Cheney campaigns and the administrations of Jeb Bush in Florida and Bob Taft in Ohio to illegally funnel foreign and other questionable money into Republican coffers.

Ever since the brutal death of Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) investigator Ray Lemme in July 2003, the focus of investigators in Florida and Georgia has been on the political scandal Lemme was uncovering. After his official investigation of contract fraud, money laundering, illegal immigration, and election fraud was shut down on orders of Jeb Bush, Lemme continued to investigate the use of FDOT to launder cash for the Bush Brothers and their allies. Lemme's focus was on the use of the Florida turnpike system to launder cash for the Jeb and George W. Bush campaigns. It was an investigation that would ultimately lead to Lemme's body being discovered in a motel room bath tub in Valdosta, Georgia. A two-state police cover up of Lemme's death, threats directed at Florida and Georgia investigators, and a virtual media blackout indicates that the GOP administrations of Jeb Bush and Georgia's Sonny Perdue wanted the Lemme story to go away -- and fast.

The reason for the cover-up of Lemme's reported "suicide" is simple. Investigators have now discovered that foreign cash, including Chinese, Saudi, and Nigerian money, was laundered via the biggest state-run cash cow in Florida -- the Florida Turnpike system. Because most of the transactions involving Florida's toll roads involve cash and huge amounts of it, it was easy for foreign and other questionable money to be laundered via FDOT.

Lemme had reportedly become aware of the use of FDOT to commit criminal acts. Valdosta, where Lemme went to meet a still unknown source, is a key center for international organized criminal activity, including illegal foreign worker smuggling, involving close political allies of George W. and Jeb Bush...
more
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/scoops/Lemme.htm

OH Dem says BWC scandal ilegalities put PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN QUESTION
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Things Are Even Worse in Ohio than Anyone Could Imagine
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Anybody listening to BradBlog?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Thanks. So Coin Gate and Five Star Trust are connected?
Now it's getting interesting indeed. Thanks for all the links. It'll take some searching and investigating but this thing can be become large as well.

The BFEE never ceases to amaze me. You would think that the sheer weight of all the scandals would crush them, but still it doesn't happen. Let's hope that this is the last feather...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
69. Vote Fraud 'n' Khashoggi.
Now there's a TV show.

It's reality-based.



Just don't confuse me with somebody else, OK



ROGUE STATE: The Covert Op That Ate the World

January 4,2005 -Venice, FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

While both of the terrorist pilots who crashed into the World Trade Center were students at Venice Floridas Huffman Aviation, the flight school's owner Wallace J. Hilliard, 72, of Naples, FL., was simultaneously pursuing his own diplomatic opening to Fidel Castros Cuba.

A photograph (left) recently made available to the MadCowMorningNews shows a smiling Hilliard strapping a Rolex with the must-have diamond beveled-face onto the presumably grateful wrist of one of Fidel Castros top aides, Guillermo Garcia Frias, known in Cuba as "the Commandante of the Revolution."

For Hilliard, portrayed as a retired-to-Florida Midwestern insurance executive-turned-befuddled investor after the 9.11 attack, the new evidence confirms he had been doing considerably more ''moving and shaking' than is customary for seniors in the Sunshine State.

Former employees confirmed Hilliard's curious Cuban venture. All expressed puzzlement, even after working with him closely, about who Hilliard really worked for and what he had been up to while Mohamed Atta frolicked on the tarmac at the Venice Airport in front of his hanger.

SNIP...

But its Hilliards involvement with ADNAN KHASHOGGI, THE SAUDI BILLIONAIRE and international fugitive, which is most intriguing. We learned of it from a business rival of the two men, both vying for rights to build a casino on a remote island in the Bahamas.

"A reputation for corruption to be proud of."

CONTINUED...

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:hF3IM6IBRL8J:www.m...



That Hilliard. He's a good friend of Jebthro.



Hi, Dreamie! Great links there, wot?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
54. kick
Please tell me this is true! I'd love to see the BFEE be shut down.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
59. Gee. Money from China, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria...
What transnational criminal enterprise has big things happening with all three?

From seemslikeadream and Masden:

The reason for the cover-up of Lemme's reported "suicide" is simple. Investigators have now discovered that foreign cash, including Chinese, Saudi, and Nigerian money, was laundered via the biggest state-run cash cow in Florida -- the Florida Turnpike system. Because most of the transactions involving Florida's toll roads involve cash and huge amounts of it, it was easy for foreign and other questionable money to be laundered via FDOT.



Rank Local BarrelsProducedDaily (as of 2003, per CIA)

1 World 75,460,000
2 Saudi Arabia 8,711,000
3 United States 8,054,000
4 Russia 7,286,000
5 Iran 3,804,000
6 Mexico 3,590,000
7 Norway 3,408,000
8 China 3,300,000
9 Venezuela 3,080,000
10 Canada 2,738,000
11 United Arab Emirates 2,566,000
12 United Kingdom 2,541,000
13 Iraq 2,452,000
14 Nigeria 2,256,000
15 Kuwait 2,117,000
16 Brazil 1,561,000
17 Algeria 1,520,000
18 Indonesia 1,451,000
19 Libya 1,429,000
20 Oman 963,800
21 Qatar 864,200
22 Argentina 828,600
23 Egypt 816,900
24 Kazakhstan 798,200
25 Angola 742,400
26 India 732,400
27 Australia 731,000
28 Malaysia 729,200
29 Colombia 614,400
30 Syria 522,700
31 Yemen 438,500
32 Ecuador 421,200
33 Vietnam 356,700
34 Denmark 346,200
35 Azerbaijan 307,200
36 Gabon 301,300
37 Congo, Republic of the 275,000
38 Brunei 217,200
39 Sudan 209,100
40 South Africa 196,200
41 Equatorial Guinea 181,400
42 Thailand 173,800
43 Turkmenistan 162,500
44 Uzbekistan 142,700
45 Romania 127,500
46 Trinidad and Tobago 125,400
47 Peru 95,100
48 Ukraine 86,490
49 Germany 85,860
50 Italy 79,460
51 Cameroon 76,650
52 Tunisia 72,580
53 Papua New Guinea 67,500
54 Pakistan 62,870
55 Cuba 50,000
56 Turkey 48,000
57 Netherlands 46,200
58 Bolivia 44,340
59 Bahrain 43,000
60 New Zealand 42,160
61 Hungary 41,190
62 Belarus 37,000
63 France 34,920
64 Croatia 29,000
65 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 24,000
66 Guatemala 21,080
67 Austria 20,670
68 Japan 17,330
69 Poland 17,180
70 Serbia and Montenegro 15,000
71 Burma 14,170
72 Chile 13,640
73 Cote d'Ivoire 11,000
74 Suriname 10,000
75 Philippines 8,460
76 Czech Republic 7,419
77 Spain 7,099
78 Ghana 7,000
79 Greece 5,992
80 Albania 5,952
81 Estonia 5,100
82 Lithuania 4,594
83 Bangladesh 3,581
84 Georgia 2,000
85 Kyrgyzstan 2,000
86 Barbados 1,271
87 Taiwan 1,100
88 Slovakia 1,000
89 Benin 700
90 Bulgaria 603
91 Morocco 400
92 Tajikistan 250

SOURCE:

http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/rankings/oil_production...



Jimmy Carter warned us 30 years ago. Too bad the big-wigs didn't listen.



It's a miracle anyone can still breathe.

All the rest of the world's nations produce zero barrels per day.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. yes...
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
61. Fascism for Empire
What people will do for power and money these days is crazy.
To people who believe in the Constitution of the United States, it's treason.





The Case for Sedition

High Crimes of the Bush Cabal


Part 1

by Al Martin

A case for sedition can be made against the Bush Cabal, including George Herbert Walker Bush, James Baker, Cappy Weinberger, and the late Bill Casey et al. They perpetrated a series of frauds against the public purse under the thinly disguised veil of political policies, to wit, the tremendous increase in military and defense expenditures, in order to try to defeat the "Evil Empire" of the Soviet Union, which in itself was a ruse.

This enormous multi-trillion dollar increase in defense spending was used by the Bush Cabal to suck money out of the public purse by the commission of a variety of schemes and to bleed money out of defense appropriations by incessant payments from defense contractors to a shadowy network of Republican-controlled arms companies, security research consultant companies, and offshore research institutes.

This can be ascertained when you look at the big Research and Development (R & D) expenditures that were done on the so-called Star Wars missile defense program. You can see the endless list of "security consultants" that were put on as subcontractors, most of whom had absolutely nothing to do with the development of the weapons.

These security consultant firms would put together proposals for estimated usage of weapons, etc, but since they knew the weapons were never going to work, they knew it was really meaningless anyway.

In addition, there was the "spare parts industry" that goes along with the Bush Cabal, which increases the cost of spare parts (which don't work) by ten or twenty times.

CONTINUED...

http://greatchange.org/ov-martin,case_for_sedition.html

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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. sir, you are correct...
they can dress it up in a crisp, three piece armani suit & a fancy red tie if they so desire, and it is all about desire & coveting; it will not matter. hegemony down approaches imo. the system will not support the weight of such oppression: economic, political, socio-religious, or otherwise again imo.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-11-05 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
40. Kick for my favorite history teacher.
My favorite fighter for humanity!!! :hug:

Thank you for your persistent fight for the rest of us.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
62. Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler




Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler

EXCERPT...

Fritz Thyssen and W.A. Harriman Company of New York

Another elusive case of reported financing of Hitler is that of Fritz Thyssen, the German steel magnate who associated himself with the Nazi movement in the early 20s. When interrogated in 1945 under Project Dustbin,11 Thyssen recalled that he was approached in 1923 by General Ludendorf at the time of French evacuation of the Ruhr. Shortly after this meeting Thyssen was introduced to Hitler and provided funds for the Nazis through General Ludendorf. In 1930-1931 Emil Kirdorf approached Thyssen and subsequently sent Rudolf Hess to negotiate further funding for the Nazi Party. This time Thyssen arranged a credit of 250,000 marks at the Bank Voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. at 18 Zuidblaak in Rotterdam, Holland, founded in 1918 with H.J. Kouwenhoven and D.C. Schutte as managing partners.12 This bank was a subsidiary of the August Thyssen Bank of Germany (formerly von der Heydt's Bank A.G.). It was Thyssen's personal banking operation, and it was affiliated with the W. A. Harriman financial interests in New York. Thyssen reported to his Project Dustbin interrogators that:

I chose a Dutch bank because I did not want to be mixed up with German banks in my position, and because I thought it was better to do business with a Dutch bank, and I thought I would have the Nazis a little more in my hands.13

Thyssen's book I Paid Hitler, published in 1941, was purported to be written by Fritz Thyssen himself, although Thyssen denies authorship. The book claims that funds for Hitler about one million marks came mainly from Thyssen himself. I Paid Hitler has other unsupported assertions, for example that Hitler was actually descended from an illegitimate child of the Rothschild family. Supposedly Hitler's grandmother, Frau Schickelgruber, had been a servant in the Rothschild household and while there became pregnant:

... an inquiry once ordered by the late Austrian chancellor, Engelbert Dollfuss, yielded some interesting results, owing to the fact that the dossiers of the police department of the Austro-Hungarian monarch were remarkably complete.14

This assertion concerning Hitler's illegitimacy is refuted entirely in a more solidly based book by Eugene Davidson, which implicates the Frankenberger family, not the Rothschild family.

In any event, and more relevant from our viewpoint, the August Thyssen front bank in Holland i.e., the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart N.V. controlled the Union Banking Corporation in New York. The Harrimans had a financial interest in, and E. Roland Harriman (Averell's brother) was a director of, this Union Banking Corporation. The Union Banking Corporation of New York City was a joint Thyssen-Harriman operation with the following directors in 1932:15

E. Roland HARRIMAN Vice president of W. A. Harriman & Co., New York
H.J. KOUWENHOVEN Nazi banker, managing partner of August Thyssen Bank and Bank voor Handel Scheepvaart N.V. (the transfer bank for Thyssen's funds)
J. G. GROENINGEN Vereinigte Stahlwerke (the steel cartel which also funded Hitler)
C. LIEVENSE President, Union Banking Corp., New York City
E. S. JAMES Partner Brown Brothers, later Brown Brothers, Harriman & Co.

CONTINUED...

http://www.sirdave.com/sutton/sutton_ws&rh/www.mega.nu_...

SOURCE:

http://www.sirdave.com/sutton/sutton_ws&rh/www.mega.nu_...



Hey, Just Me! It's a TEAM effort... so, let's PILE ON!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
53. Harriman or "Hitlerman"?
:shrug:

Remember, Pamela Harriman?!? She was nothing but a cheap bimbo, who took Averil from his first wife. It would seem that swine stays with swine.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-12-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. Pamela backed Democratic candidate Bill Clinton.
...back in 1992. For some reason, she must not've liked Sen. Bob Kerrey, Medal of Honor winner, former governor and moderate Democratic Senator from Nebraska.

Never one to forget a friend, ha, Clinton named her Ambassador to France.

Yeah. I don't like cheating spouses. Wrecks more than families.

Which brings me to the point: So now that she's gone to her reward, we're left with the likes of Mr. Robert Shrum:



HOW SHRUM TOOK OVER THE PARTY

The Boss


by Franklin Foer
Post date 07.26.04|Issue date 08.02.04

Robert Shrum, John Kerry's chief strategist and speechwriter, is considered the poet laureate of populism--the man who injected the phrase "the people versus the powerful" into Democratic vernacular. Over his 35-year career, Shrum has been responsible for many of the memorable lines to leave the mouths of such Democratic eminences as Ted Kennedy, George McGovern, and Al Gore. But one of his most telling speeches won't ever be collected in an anthology of great oratory.

For many years, Shrum plied his trade on behalf of Richard Gephardt. And in 1997, he began priming his client for a presidential run. Shrum wanted to signal Gephardt's intentions loudly, so he wrote him a stemwinder, to be delivered at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government--a pugilistic declaration that the Missourian would challenge Gore for the nomination in 2000 and reclaim the party from the rule of centrists. The speech derided New Democrats, "who set their compass only off the direction of others, who talk about the political center but fail to understand that, if it is only defined by others, it lacks core values."

If Gephardt's address hasn't entered the pantheon of momentous Democratic speeches, it made quite a stir at the time. The Clinton White House was so livid at Gephardt that officials didn't even bother hiding their ire behind anonymous quotes. "It sounds like politics over principle, especially given flip-flops on multiple issues," then-Clinton adviser Rahm Emanuel told The New York Times. To discredit the Gephardt-Shrum critique, the White House conceived a clever counterattack. President Clinton summoned Ted Kennedy to deliver a defense of his administration. "The American people don't care about New Democrat or old Democrat. They care about the quality of their lives," the liberal lion intoned at the National Press Club, deflecting the barrage that his fellow populist had delivered only nine days earlier.

SNIP...

Indeed, Shrum has become a status symbol in his own right. From his Washington home in Massachusetts Heights, he ran a legendary salon, with a bar stocked with top-shelf liquor and a long dining room table stocked with top-shelf guests. Shrum provides his clients entre into the highest social strata. He was so close to the doyenne of Democratic fund-raising, Pamela Harriman, that he traveled with her to Barbados and served as an usher at her funeral. It was at his house that Mary Matalin met James Carville, and it was movie mogul Lew Wasserman who set Shrummy up with Oatesie. Warren Beatty and Henry Winkler attended the wedding. It's not a coincidence that rich men making their first run for high office are the ones most drawn to Shrum--from Jon Corzine to John Edwards. The arrivistes find Shrum's insider credentials too powerful to resist. And even many studied politicos find themselves succumbing. According to one Democratic strategist, the Clintons feared Shrum's social power. During the 1992 primary, Shrum served as an adviser to Senator Bob Kerrey, who viciously attacked the Arkansas governor. But, once in the Oval Office, Clinton made a calculated decision to ignore these slights, importing Shrum to help polish his State of the Union speeches. "The Clintons gave Shrum work," says the former White House official, "because they didn't want him as an enemy."

CONTINUED (with FREE REGISTRATION)...

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040802&s=foer080204&pt...



How, uh, liberal.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. Kick!
:kick:
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. BFEE = Eugenics Spreading NAZI Scum
While this is old hat to you, karenina, it's weird how so many DUers don't like "conspiracy theories."

So, here's some conspiracy FACT: The BFEE is in bed with NAZIs.

They both believe themselves to be the Master Race. Here's some history on how they got "that way."

BTW: The author is an award-winning New York Times investigative reporter.



Eugenics and the Nazis -- the California connection

by Edwin Black
Sunday, November 9, 2003

Hitler and his henchmen victimized an entire continent and exterminated millions in his quest for a so-called Master Race.

But the concept of a white, blond-haired, blue-eyed master Nordic race didn't originate with Hitler. The idea was created in the United States, and cultivated in California, decades before Hitler came to power. California eugenicists played an important, although little-known, role in the American eugenics movement's campaign for ethnic cleansing.

Eugenics was the pseudoscience aimed at "improving" the human race. In its extreme, racist form, this meant wiping away all human beings deemed "unfit," preserving only those who conformed to a Nordic stereotype. Elements of the philosophy were enshrined as national policy by forced sterilization and segregation laws, as well as marriage restrictions, enacted in 27 states. In 1909, California became the third state to adopt such laws. Ultimately, eugenics practitioners coercively sterilized some 60,000 Americans, barred the marriage of thousands, forcibly segregated thousands in "colonies," and persecuted untold numbers in ways we are just learning. Before World War II, nearly half of coercive sterilizations were done in California, and even after the war, the state accounted for a third of all such surgeries.

California was considered an epicenter of the American eugenics movement. During the 20th century's first decades, California's eugenicists included potent but little-known race scientists, such as Army venereal disease specialist Dr. Paul Popenoe, citrus magnate Paul Gosney, Sacramento banker Charles Goethe, as well as members of the California state Board of Charities and Corrections and the University of California Board of Regents.

Eugenics would have been so much bizarre parlor talk had it not been for extensive financing by corporate philanthropies, specifically the Carnegie Institution, the Rockefeller Foundation and the Harriman railroad fortune. They were all in league with some of America's most respected scientists from such prestigious universities as Stanford, Yale, Harvard and Princeton. These academicians espoused race theory and race science, and then faked and twisted data to serve eugenics' racist aims.

CONTINUED...

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/offSiteArchive/www.sfg...





I'm subperior.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. It's a "generational" thang...
Wonder if we got a DJ here familiar with PP&M. ;-)
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-13-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Wolfman Jack checkin' in
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