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Final death throes of the Iraqi insurgency?

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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:09 AM
Original message
Final death throes of the Iraqi insurgency?
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wow! Impressive graphic!
Nominated for Greatest
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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wish our leaders
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 09:18 AM by Goldeneye
would whip charts like this out once in awhile.
Looks like the Iraqi election was really the turning point. The deaths line turns up pretty distinctly after Jan.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Man, they make Baghdad Bob seem credible. eom
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. I wish more would point out that 'insurgency' is a misnomer.
They're patriots, IMO, trying to get the invaders the hell out of THEIR country & it's business.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Very well said! n/t
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Insurgency vs resistance
WW2 French "resistance" against Nazi occupying power: good
Present-day Iraqi "insurgency" against US occupying power: bad

The word "insurgency" is being used by many people who had probably never heard of it before the current adventure. Why adopt unfamiliar military terminology (from the comfort of your armchair) when your existing vocabulary already provides the terms you need?
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I wonder what the Nazis called the French Resistance?
Probably very similar to insurgency...
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moggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
24. "Terrorists"
The Nazis viewed the Resistance as terrorists. Isn't this always the way?
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting that Joe Lieberman shows up on the trend line....
...among all of the neo-conservative PNAC propagandists. What exactly has Joe Lieberman done for the advancement of the principles of the democratic party since 2000?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. If they keep on getting weaker at this rate they will be 100% exhausted
by the time aWoL declares 'victory' again.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. The more successful the rebels get, the more desperate they are.
Hey, I don't write this shit, I just report it.

:rofl:
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. Are they ever going to learn that ...
just saying something again and again, while it tends to make way too many Americans believe something, doesn't actually, technically make it true?
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lectrobyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's a great graphic, one picture really is worth 1000's of words.
Thanks!
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LoneDriver Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Who wants to predict?
When they'll actually use "The light at the end of the tunnel".
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's a great graphic
Mind if I print out a few hundred?
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mopaul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. very scientifically rendered
copernicus applauds you
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. I just wonder what would happen to the line if all said something sametime
Would the line shoot straight up or remain at the same consistent rate?
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. the point of the graphic ...
... is that the reality on the ground (one measure of which is soldier deaths) is completely independent of the shit spewed by these people.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. That may be hard to prove modern Army reality is very subjective.
I have always suspected the numbers are cooked more than any of us suspect. They would also not want to admit attacks are in anyway related to the proclamations of premature victory. I would imagine they are still laughing at Bush's "Mission Accomplished" and "Bring it" on line.

Soldier death numbers do not account from secondary causes for example wrecking a Humvee to avoid a booby trap. Falling in a fox hole and breaking your neck to avoid a mortar attack does not count in the convoluted listing of casualties.
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. They really think their BS propaganda works on people...
who hate us and just want us out of their country.

That is so sad.
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TWiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Their propaganda does work on people........Church people.
I just had another insane conversation with a church person about the war in Iraq. Those people are completely nuts. They totally believe everything the bushtapo claims......and then some.

Did you know that Saddam actually revealed the location of the WMD's and the "liberal media" is covering up the story?" Well, that is the most recent claim being made from the pulpits.

Christianity has become the main propaganda duct of the republican party. Their bull is spewed from the pulpit, and in their media. In some cases, it is so outrageous that it is as if they are begging us to properly identify them as a PAC and not a Church. Then they would publicly wail that we are "attacking Christianity". How do you get this skunk out of the woodpile?
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Oh, they've got the goofs in this country hook, line, and sinker
But they've gotten to the point now that they really think that if they just blow something through the propaganda horn, it really will make it true. I think they're finding out it doesn't ALWAYS work that way.
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Ioo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. If a person tells you he is a liar, Believe him! (n/t)
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Crankie Avalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
19. Holy Moley...
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 10:47 AM by Crankie Avalon
...now we've got them right where they want us!!!

And when our our people are frantically climbing over each other to get on the last chopper out of the country, the "insurgency" will really be kaput...
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
22. Now they have Saddam's trial?
Hmmm-mmm...
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
23. Freaking brilliant
To whomever made that graphic, BIG thanks.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. It shows what you want, but makes it hard to judge the
claims. In other words, hard to condemn or agree. You get indignation the death toll, but that's about it.

It's like the news reports that keep saying "Death toll keeps on rising", with a breathlessness that seems silly. The best we can hope for is "Death toll hasn't risen." But the contrast seems to imply we want to the death toll to fall, which is, at the very least, highly, highly improbable.

Even when the "insurgency's back is broken" I would expect the line continue to continue rise for some time. But I would expect the slope to decrease.

You need to graph the line's first derivative, i.e., its slope. Maybe the second derivative would prove useful, too. The "broken back" statement's likely to seem briefly reasonable then, but wrong in the longer run.
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I couple things on that:
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 01:04 PM by tgnyc
1. Falling death toll? Sure, that's not possible. But I'm hoping for the death toll to level off significantly enough that it would be evident on a graph like this, or become, mathematically speaking (you're obviously so-inclined), asymptotic.

2. Considering that the war has been going on for a little over two years, it seems that one year after declaring that a 'corner has been turned,' and two years after the insurgency's 'last gasp' has been declared, is a fair enough length of time to allow for such trailing-off of the violence to have made itself evident.

3. The larger point is that government officials are simply talking out of their hats on this topic, with their comments bearing no relationship whatsoever to the actual status of the insurgency.
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. BTW, the vertical axis should be labeled
Iraq War "Coalition" Deaths
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hnsez Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. Propaganda Disassembled!
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