1936... could we be seeting a repeat of THAT ONE?

[nadinbrzezinski]

Ok back then FDR tried to pack the courts, and it finally was stopped by the Conies.

Today we MAY be seeing the end of the extremist take over... I am not sure if this is the case but time will tell

Given how the RW is going appoplectic, we may be seeing the turning point, regardless we just saw history folks. We will see what will happen in the next few months, and mebbe years. We will truly not know if this was a victory or a defeat until this truly plays out

[serryjw]

1. Yes, FDR did pack the High Court but never forget

we still represent the majority.......This is payback time for BORK..They will never let us forget it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Oh I know that, they have long memories

but still I have to wonder if we are seeing a repeat of 1936

[serryjw]

3. Ohhhhhh we are......

and they are younger, living longer and will have a 50 year influence on this countries direction....Corporate America must be having orgasms

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. You are missing the point I am making

in the end FDR was UNABLE to pack the courts, I think Bush will be UNABLE to pack the courts, and I am hope I am right, for the sake of this country....

Press hard enough the people will be left with only one choice

[serryjw]

6. It's almost a non issue

Scotus is important but the circuits in the last 3 decades have become so much more important...We really lost the prize...and we can not get it back in my lifetime......this is so sad, the loss is immeasurable

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. both are impprtant in their own way

and this was a play for the USSC, that was the prize... that and pryor ninth circuit... and that we lost... I am trying to look at this from a historical perspective, that is all...

I hope we saw today the last gasp of this take over.

[serryjw]

9. I hope......sorry, I doubt it

They will continue..What we know of * is he may lose....for a while...but nothing is ever final with them Or it's not over until the fat guy sings!

[autorank]

5. I think you're right nadin. This is the apogee, their peroratoin...

...it's time to sell sock in the right. All they've got left now is a military takeover and I don't think they can pull that off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I dunno about a military take over

but if my gut is right, Bushco just became lame duck

[autorank]

21. I agree...lets not forget, we cleaned their clock on Social Security!

[sweetheart]

10. There are always ways around

If the american people want to take back the government from the
corporations, they can simply de-fund courts with poor records, that
they've no money to process legislation. Then, create an overflow
court system for people who want faster justice, and stock it with
judges who have an education.

If the judges go too far, theres always the chicago solution as recently
demonstrated thereabouts. These persons have to answer to the public
and the right of the government to claim the public endorsement.
If they deviate too far, there are so many many ways that the rule of
criminal lawmakers and criminal courts can be turfed out.

I can see it now, the "horizontal n-th district overflow appeals court"
hearing any case from anywhere in the country as an option for a
speedy trial against the standard corporate system of screwing the
average joe who does not have the money to get justice.

Sure, such a court would hear a lotta cases, but it could be designed
from the getgo to dispense fast justice... hearing cases in a virtual
courtroom on an entirely computerized court system, with judgements
written instantly by justices and argued by council on-line.

The court could work in 24 hour shifts and take all the optional
overflow from the incompetent circuits. There's always ways around
when the people take back the government from the corporates.

[grasswire]

11. don't forget, too, that a coup attempt against FDR....

...nearly succeeded. The same elite industrialists conspired to make a military coup against FDR. It was only thwarted because the USMC general they chose to seize power ratted them out at the end. Smedley Butler.

And then FDR wanted the matter glossed over in order to "get along."

It has ever been thus. Time after time, THEY have engaged in unconstitutional or anti-constitutional actions in order to seize the power they could not win at the ballot box. Time after time.

Iran Contra
McCarthyism
October Surprise
Coup attempt on Clinton
Election 2000
Botching of the Paris Peace Talks
Watergate
Reagan's shadow government

The beat goes on....those are just a few.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I know

I must say though the coverage by ABC has been amusing, listening to now taliafero

[Ms. Clio]

12. But FDR was blocked by a conservative Supreme Court

that had already struck down other parts of his New Deal. It seems highly unlikely that this or any SC in the immediate future will attempt to block Bush or any Republican successor from packing the courts.

Edited to add:

"Ironically, time would do what Roosevelt's court packing plan could not. By 1941, four Supreme Court justices had retired; two more had died. In total, seven of the nine justices on the court were Roosevelt appointees."

Interesting link that emphasizes what a disastrous political mistake it was for Roosevelt, and the national outrage it provoked.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/presidents/32_f_roosevelt/f_roosevelt_politics.html

[grasswire]

22. My point...

...was meant to be that this group (over several generations) acts in extra-constitutional and un-constitutional ways in order to impose their ideology on Americans. This latest is just part of the pattern of attacks.

[Ms. Clio]

23. Yes, I know, I wasn't responding to you, unless I screwed up?

I thought your post more or less complemented mine. :)

[Lexingtonian]

13. not quite

The Right is going apoplectic because the court system is un-stacking itself.

The court system is going the way of the society as a whole, again...it slipped reactionary for 20 years (since Nixon), stalled and perhaps began a turnaround with the Supreme Court verdict in Planned Parenthood v Casey and the Thomas hearings (yuck!), and began to slip the other way in the late Nineties. Bush v Gore happened, and that was so embarrassing and overtly a lapse/joke and in turns out the most conservative Circuits are so embarrassing, as well- check out the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals on death penalty cases- that the system began to slip progressive faster.

Now things have gotten to the point where the Right sees the federal courts slipping out of its grasp, most clearly the Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit. Tony Kennedy and Sandra Day O'Conner went along with overturning anti-sodomy laws specific to gay people, overturning the Rehnquist Supreme Court affirmation of that (Bowers v Hardwick, 1986). We don't know what happened, but the Supreme Court refused to hear the initial test case against Massachusetts gay marriage (Largess v SJC) a year ago- which a more reactionary Court would have done. Kennedy also went over to the Liberal Four in two death penalty cases, overturning two 1989 Rehnquist Court decisions in '02 and in early March of this year that had permitted the execution of mentally retarded people and offenders aged 16 or 17 at perpetration of the crime. (That latter one is what all the obscure bitching among the justices about foreign laws and standards is about; it's also about cases coming up the pike.)

And that's why the Right is so upset. It knows how important the courts are to its claims and power, it knows that the courts are slipping away, it knows that the "accomplishments" of 35 years of control of the federal judiciary are already in danger. Once social privileges of the Right are lost, economic privilege will also decline and be lost. They know it as no liberal contingent does.

And that is why the Right must re-stack the federal judiciary, and do so as soon as possible. That's why the mere trickle of ever more extreme and activist reactionary judges infuriates them and why the likes of Tom Daschle and Harry Reid insist on minimizing their passage. Time works against the Right as the country slips away from them. There are lawsuits building to wipe out DOMA and the state-level mini-DOMAs, lawsuits to reenfranchise all nonincarcerated people convicted of felonies, lawsuits to compel application of the Constitution at U.S. government facilities, e.g. 'Camp X-ray' at Guantanamo Bay. Lawsuits that will, in time, wipe out the Right's social agenda of inequality and privilege, and corporate privileges vis a vis consumers won't be far behind.

And that is what is at stake. Don't let Dobson or Frist or the like fool you- the idea is to stall changes which the electorate is willing to accept if not demanding.

[laheina]

14. Something that was brought up in the CA forum,

and I don't know if you all discussed it over here, is that in some cases these judges are taken out of lower courts, where they then leave an empty seat behind them to be filled. In the case of California, that spot is then filled by an appointment by the Governor (if that's what you could call him!) a * cronie.

It's like a two for one deal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. hmm interseting analysis

mind if I do send it along to my list?

[Lexingtonian]

19. no problem

Enjoy.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Could be, but...

this one won't play out for a while.

It's a game for the long term, not today or tomorrow. Remember, it was the Court that gave us Dred Scott long before it gave us Brown. Through most of our history we have suffered under some pretty reactionary Federal courts that tried to kill off indians, union activists, slaves, and pretty much every underdog we had. It's been a rare court that actually served the underdog, and we are spoiled for having lived under one.

Roosevelt had to pack the Court because it was, back then, pretty much aligned with the Republicans. Roosevelt had the courts from Coolidge, Harding and Hoover to contend with. The situation is not quite analogous today, although it could well be argued that it is worse with over 200 new Federalist Society judges on the benches waiting to screw up over 50 years of progress.

There are lots of possibilies for the future, and I don't doubt the pendulum will again swing. I suspect it's already swinging back to a more amenable position.

Instead of dumping on Reid and the rest of the Senate Dems, I would suggest that they are heroes for being outvoted and outgunned by a ruthless enemy and still managing to get something out of it.

One day they will again be in the majority, and we can thank the ones there now, most of them anyway, for saving the party and setting the stage for a return.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Oh I kniow the ultimate effect of today

will not be fully felt for at least a decade...

:-)

Ah the long view is so maddening at times

Oh and good night, this is getting hard to stay up

[TreasonousBastard]

18. Could be, but...

this one won't play out for a while.

It's a game for the long term, not today or tomorrow. Remember, it was the Court that gave us Dred Scott long before it gave us Brown. Through most of our history we have suffered under some pretty reactionary Federal courts that tried to kill off indians, union activists, slaves, and pretty much every underdog we had. It's been a rare court that actually served the underdog, and we are spoiled for having lived under one.

Roosevelt had to pack the Court because it was, back then, pretty much aligned with the Republicans. Roosevelt had the courts from Coolidge, Harding and Hoover to contend with. The situation is not quite analogous today, although it could well be argued that it is worse with over 200 new Federalist Society judges on the benches waiting to screw up over 50 years of progress.

There are lots of possibilies for the future, and I don't doubt the pendulum will again swing. I suspect it's already swinging back to a more amenable position.

Instead of dumping on Reid and the rest of the Senate Dems, I would suggest that they are heroes for being outvoted and outgunned by a ruthless enemy and still managing to get something out of it.

One day they will again be in the majority, and we can thank the ones there now, most of them anyway, for saving the party and setting the stage for a return.