it's a shame that so many people think bushco orchestrated 9-11

[mopaul]

it's just a damn shame, that we even have to say such a thing aloud, and be thought insane. those that suspect this are labelled crackpots and dismissed immediately, those that refuse to believe such a thing wouldn't change their minds if showed proof of such a thing.

the unbelievablity factor is probably the plans greatest design, that and it's deliberate un-solvability. no one can, and no one wants to believe such a thing, and the mind simply wants to believe the official story, just to be done with it and have closure.

the 4 year anniversay approaches, and we have had all this time to reflect on the horrific event. we've all taken sides, made conclusions, hoisted theories, and observed how the tragedy has fast tracked every bushco, PNAC plan so conveniently.

it's a shame 3,000 people had to die. it's a shame 1,650 u.s. soldiers have died, and thousands crippled. it's a shame 200,000 innocents have died too, first called rebels, then terrorists, then insurgents, and now, just plain killers. it's a shame the news can't report the horror anymore without being shut down by white house decree.

it's just a damn shame that i have to make another damn post on the subject, all these years later, and it'll probably just fade away. it's shame that i can't just shut the fuck up about it.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. The truth should never die a quiet death.

In my heart I will always believe that Bushco MIHOP.
That was my first thought when I saw the second plane hit, and everything that I have read and heard since has only served to reinforce that belief.
Pure, unadultered evil lurks in the hearts and minds of everyone close to that man.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

97. Project for a NEW American Century ---------------> LINK

http://www.newamericancentury.org

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

98. "Never did I dream we'd get the TRIFECTA" - GWB June 14, 2002 ---> MP3

June 14, 2002
Remarks by the President in Texans for Rick Perry Reception
Hyatt Regency Hotel
Houston, Texas
6:09 P.M. CDT

You know, when I was one time campaigning in Chicago, a reporter said, would you ever have a deficit? And I said, I can't imagine it, but there would be one if we had a war, or a national emergency, or a recession. (Laughter.) Never did I dream we'd get the trifecta. (Laughter.)


source...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020614-8.html

more...
http://news.globalfreepress.com/trifecta

listen to the murderous thug here telling and laughing at his good fortune :argh:
http://news.globalfreepress.com/mp3/trifecta.mp3

peace

[bpilgrim]

109. The whole HORRID attack took almost 2 fucking HOURS - SOP

tells ANYONE with military experience that a STAND-DOWN order was given, no doubt.

peace

[benevolent dictator]

105. Didn't Hitler firebomb one of his own buildings?

then used it as an excuse to put the country under martial law?

The one plane that was taken down (because some good person decided to disobey orders) was headed for the White House. If it had hit, just imagine what they could have done... The Patriot Act would be just a drop in the bucket.

[bpilgrim]

108. The Reichstag fire -> Enabling Act / 911 -> PATRIOT ACT

by Soren Swigart

The night of February 27, 1933 loomed dark and gray over the city of Berlin. The Reichstag, seat of parliamentary government in Germany had been in recess since December of the preceding year. New elections were scheduled for March 5th. The great building was quiet and except for a watchman, empty. At 9:05 that evening, a student passing by saw a man carrying a burning torch through the windows of the first floor but did not report it. Ten minutes later smoke was observed coming from the building and the first fire alarm was received by the Berlin Fire station. In less than ten minutes the firemen were on the scene but already flames were breaking out all over the building. At 9:30 there was a tremendous explosion and the great central chamber was totally enveloped in flames. The fire quickly raced out of control despite the efforts of the fire fighters and soon only the walls of the gutted building were still standing. Within minutes police arrested a half naked and seemingly dazed Dutchman, Marinus van der Lubbe, who was discovered at the scene.

It wasn't long before Chancellor Hitler and Prussian Minister Göring arrived amid a flurry of reporters and photographers. Although he had just stepped out of his car, Göring at once accused the communists of setting the fire. The debate over who set the fire continues and may never be solved to everyone's satisfaction. Despite attempts to support the case against van der Lubbe, who was tried and executed for the crime, a great deal of evidence collected and analyzed by Walther Hofer of Bern points in the direction of a SA/SS Sondergruppe headed by Reinhard Heydrich and an official of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior, Kurt Dalüge. Less important than the cause of the fire however was the result. Before the sun rose on the morning of the 28th, over 4,000 communists and a miscellany of intellectuals and professional men who had incurred the wrath of the Nazi Party were arrested. A shaken President Hindenburg, 86 years old, was easily convinced that the nation was on the verge of a communist revolution, was induced by Hitler to sign an emergency decree suspending the basic rights of the citizens for the duration of the emergency. This decree also authorized the Reich government to assume full powers in any federal state whose government proved unable to restore public order, ordered death or imprisonment for a number of crimes including some newly invented such as resistance to the decree itself. The decree did not include any provision guaranteeing an arrested person a quick hearing, access to legal counsel, or redress for false arrest. Those arrested often found their detention extended indefinitely without legal proceedings of any kind.

more...
http://worldatwar.net/event/reichstagsbrand

psst... pass the word :bounce:

peace

[ROH]

121. Any other similar examples from history?

Was there a similar Roman example? I can think of one, but someone with more extensive knowledge of the Roman Empire might know?

[ROH]

122. Found this link -- Emperor Nero, AD 64

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/5/actreact.htm

On July 19, AD 64, a terrible fire began near Rome's Circus Maximus, and when the fierce conflagration ended days later, most of the great city lay in ashes. Whether or not the fire was actually started by the Emperor Nero, as many have maintained over the centuries, there is no question that the Christians were unjustly blamed for the disaster. Although holding all members of the new sect responsible for the blaze would have too greatly stretched credulity, the megalomaniacal potentate nonetheless found a pretext for condemning them en masse by claiming that the followers of Christ were "enemies of mankind." Tacitus records that the Christians "were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of hating the human race." Tacitus also records the incredibly cruel tortures and deaths to which these innocent scapegoats were subjected.

[pgh_dem]

163. Remember The Maine?

Just to lump a few under loose categories -
MIHOP
The USS Maine - catalyst for Spanish American war
Reichstag Fire - catalyst for Nazi takeover
The attack on the German radio tower by 'militant poles'? - catalyst for invasion of Poland
(edit to include: Operation Northwoods, intended as catalyst for US invasion of Cuba - call it WIMIHOP - what if we made it happen on purpose)

LIHOP
Pearl Harbor - catalyst for US entry into WWII
Gulf of Tonkin - maybe call that 'made it up on purpose', but catalyst for full scale US involvement in Vietnam


Best summary of why this tactic is so successful:
“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country.” --- Hermann Goering

[ROH]

175. Thank you - very interesting.

[Frederik]

149. Not the White House

The Capitol - in other words, the Congress. Anthrax letters would have been superfluous.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

166. "In my heart I will always believe".

In other words, it's nothing more than a religion.

MIHOP is your God.

You need no real evidence, just a "belief" in your heart.

And they say far-leftists are atheists..!

[Flubadubya]

168. How about we call it an "educated guess"...

There is plenty of proof abounding, but we have no "free press" who will ferret it out. Let's just look at all the things that have so sweetly "fallen into place" for BushCo. after 9/11. Let us just consider how cynical and anti-"the people" this regime has proved themselves. I don't think it parallels religion at all... I think it's more like developing a sensible theory based on available evidence. I don't "believe in my heart" that BushCo. is responsible for 9/11... I strongly believe it because ALL the evidence points in that direction.

Call me "silly" or "stupid" of just "insane", but I'll call you "ignorant" and "self-delusional" if you think it could not be true! So there!!!

[libhill]

178. What I think could not be true

Is the official story - a handful of Arab "terrorists" who "hate our freedoms" (?) and who could barely qualify to fly a Cessna, manage to hijack four jetliners at the behest of some low tech Mullah living in a cave in Afghanistan, and the mightiest Air Force in the history of flight, was immobilized for two hours. Yeah, right. And very inconveniently, some of the accused skyjackers, who supposedly died in the attacks, subsequently turned up alive and well, protesting their innocence. I'm not buying it, never will. Bushco can go to hell.

[mopaul]

184. yes, all hail MIHOP the magnificent

mihop is my god, and i will have no other notions before me.

[TheWatcher]

188. And I suppose the Official Story is YOURS

How Ironic that the MIHOP "conspiracy theories" are FAR more plausible and less RIDICULOUS than the Official Story of what really happened.

I'd love to see your evidence that proves the Official Story and I defy ANYONE on this PLANET to do so at this point.

Whether one is willing to let oneself think outside the safety of what The Powers That be tell you to think and tell you what happened on that horrible day is irrelevant at this juncture.

People can say what they want about those who Believe in LIHOP or MIHOP, but after ALL these people have done, after ALL the Crimes they have committed, after ALL of the BENEFITS that these thugs received BECAUSE of 9/11, and after PNAC, to still cling to the Official Story is even more of an exercise in Lunacy than going where many people simply cannot accept, and that is LIHOP or MIHOP.

These people LIED us into an ILLEGAL WAR and PLANNED TO DO IT A LONG TIME BEFORE 9/11 AND FIXED THE INTELLIGENCE TO DO SO, are responsible for the Slaughter of over 100,000 Iraqi's and 1650 of our own Sons And Daughters, they have Stolen 2 Elections, and they are fast turning this country into a Fascist Theocratic Police State.

And you think they wouldn't be willing to knock down a couple of buildings and kill their own people for their Grand Agenda?

Tell you what, Google Operation Northwoods and see if you still feel that way.

It's time to wake up and smell the possibilities we fear the most.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

191. No, the official story is not "mine".

Are there only two extremes?

You either believe in the "official story" or "MIHOP"? There's really nothing else in between?

Well there's a laugh and a half.

I'm sorry -- while there's evidence enough to believe in LIHOP, MIHOP is almost ridiculous with no proof to back it up. Yet people defend their belief in it just like a Christian would defend his or her God (which, of course, they've never seen and have no proof actually exists).

Drop your Bible (likely that David Ray Griffin book) and open your eyes; God may be everywhere, but he surely isn't where you're looking.

[Ruffhowse]

2. The same could be said about the assassinations of JFK, RFK, and MLK.

People can't get their minds around the idea that there was much more than meets the eye to these events. The actual truth about them would rock the US to it's very core. Those that pursue these "conspiracy theories" have always been marginalized because the truth is so hugely unbelievable.

[libhill]

6. And the official whitewash

is always so comforting to the masses. The "official inquiry" into 9/11 was a modern Warren Commission Report. Whitewash /cover up /bullshit.

[Just Me]

38. I can attest to what you state.

My initial reaction to the suggestion, very shortly after 9/11, that our government was tied to it, even if implicitly rather than explicity, truly made me sick to my stomach because it rocked my whole sense of reality. How could it be, I thought, that such darkness could have power over this country? Honest to God, I literally went through a grieving process over about a four month period.

Then, I set out to inform myself about what our government and its corporacrat constituency have done here and around the world over the last several decades. I am no longer asleep. I am now fully awake to a truth that has been intentionally hidden from me.

Today, no amount of anti-Americanism surprises me. It saddens me, but certainly does not surprise me.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. I know how you feel

I know how I felt when I first started researching into the JFK assisination. For a long time I went along with the Oswald theory and all that. Then I got into learning about everything that was going on at the time and learning how Kennedy wanted to leave Vietnam but other's didn't want him to. Then I saw the movie "The Carlyle Group" and it all made sense to me. They killed him for oil and their sick plans. What really turned my stomach was when I got the picture Johnson was involved. I felt really sick then. His own vp, a fellow democrat....

[Ruffhowse]

111. I think the rest of the world has a much clearer sense of reality than

most people do in this country, partly because so many of them live in countries where far less effort is made to disguise the corruption in their own governments. They have no misconceptions about how bad it can get when the primary motivating factor is greed. It's no wonder that anti-American sentiment is building throughout the world. Nothing says greed to the rest of the world so much as good old Uncle Sam and the activities across the globe in our name.

[Zhade]

120. Two words woke me up. Two four-letter words, on a bumper sticker:

BUSH KNEW.

It snapped me back to reality. And I knew I'd never be the same again.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. You're right

I fully believe the same people who killed the Kennedy brothers and King also killed Kenndy's son John and did 9/11.

[Ruffhowse]

112. And Paul Wellstone, too.

[ailsagirl]

130. And Malcolm X

[Octafish]

113. Same name comes up then: BUSH.

SOURCE: www.internetpirate.com/bush.htm

[ailsagirl]

129. The words "conspiracy theory" are translated to be "nut"

And what is a conspiracy? A secret plan concocted by two or more people. Yeh, right-- that's never happened in the history of this country.

[neweurope]

3. "It's shame that i can't just shut the fuck up about it.". - NO.

It would be a shame if we became silent.


-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[BamaBecky]

77. Yeah....me too! Why can't I just shut the fuck up about it?

I really don't know what has me so obsessed about it? It's really H A R D -- W O R K to keep this up!

:banghead: :shrug: :patriot: :hi:

[Occulus]

4. I only have to think of the Tuskeegee experiment to believe it's possible

Those who outright dismiss the idea that * & Co. 'did' 9/11 forget Tuskeegee and the other shameful moments in our history in which our government has acted against its people.

Most, when they hear the words "government corruption", think of finances, and dismiss the idea of corruption involving citizens dying. They ignore the fact that, from a historical perspective, "civilized" nations have an ugly tendency to become ever more hostile to the 'common' man.

I really really really hope it doesn't openly come to that here, but I fear we are already well on our way there.

[ROH]

23. Tuskegee

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html

"The United States government did something that was wrong—deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist." -- President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997

[Arugula Latte]

103. And when the government purposely exposed

military personnel to nuclear blasts in order to see the effects of the bomb. I remember telling my father about that, and he, being a strictly no-nonsense don't-believe-our-own-government-would-do-that kind of guy, was proven wrong when just a few weeks after that the government admitted it had done exactly that.

[MissWaverly]

5. There must be accountability

Here's a comment on Nazi War Criminals

These old men never cared about the victims of their crimes, why should we be concerned with their age and comfort. Until their last breath, these old men should be hunted and tried in courts of law. They gave no mercy and should expect none in return.
David Plotkin, United States of America

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/591790.stm

[BrklynLiberal]

7. Excellent! Someday, in his dotage, when * thinks he has gotten away with

all this, I hope it all comes back to haunt him. I hope he has to sit in a glass enclosed chair, even if he is wearing a diaper, false teeth and has cataracts. I hope he has to face his victims and pay the price for the hell he and his hubris unleashed on this country and this planet.

Someone recently posted a picture of the Nazi war criminal trials but put all the faces of Bush and Co on the men in the box. It was sooo satisfying. I wish I could find it. It was a dream come true.

[libhill]

9. How can a person

continue to function with thousands of murders on his conscience? How?

[BrklynLiberal]

16. If one has no conscience....

[dxstone]

117. CLONES have no conscience!

That's what you get when you make an evil killer clone from an ALREADY-evil mutant half-alien idiot scumbag with a powerful dad...
And then they turn around and clone THAT, and now the REAL fun begins:



read the fool story at
http://presidentevilonline.com/clone.html

[Protagoras]

24. sociopath's have no conscious.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[TankLV]

56. Alcohol fetal syndrom babies have no conscience.

Babs bush is a drunk/lush - she drank while pregnant with her spawn.

During certain stages of fetal development, if alcohol is ingested by the mother (of satan in this case), development is interrupted and doesn't complete. Hence - the brain cells don't fully develope, or a child is born with a cleft palate (the halves of the face/body slowly "grow together" during developement - look at the ridge above your lips, etc.).

It's the entire drunken bush family "values" that spawned their gaggle of liars, criminal, cheats, and thieves.

[BrklynLiberal]

66. Perfectly excellent diagnosis. That, and the dry drunk sydrome that *

exhibits. That Korsky/what-the-heck syndrome.

[babsbunny]

72. I loved This!

It made me laugh!

[mtnsnake]

104. I love this, too!

That is the funniest sounding explanation of the Chimp I've heard on this forum in a while. Good job!!

:rofl:

[expatriate]

125. Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Fetal Alcohol Effect do have

this effect on people - these people literally have no conscience. They also cannot comprehend or care about the consequences of their actions. It is virtually impossible to come up with any punishment for a child with one of these conditions, because they do not make the connection between the punishment, and what they did. Positive reinforcement also has little effect, because the child will not make the connection.

They are some of the most self centered and self serving people in the world. Ask me how I know? I adopted one. The damage done by these tragically injured children is unbelievable, and no matter how much you explain, reason, punish, contract with them, positively reinforce good behavior - no matter what you do, they will NOT change. They also have great difficulty with empathy, and many suffer from RAD, where they cannot bond with anyone.

If this is the truth about Bush, it would make a great deal of sense.

[BrklynLiberal]

64. Bush and Co are absolutely sociopaths.

[Raksha]

99. Obviously the neocons have *NO* conscience.

What other explanation is there?

[BrklynLiberal]

18. Here is the thread with the pictures of Bushco as Nazi war criminals.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3662609

Here's the text. The picture is priceless!!!

Defendants in the dock at the Ango-American War Crimes Trial of 2010, held at The Hague under the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court.

Of the 20 defendants shown here -- the so-called "Republican Guard" -- only one (Alan Greenspan, second row, second from right) was found not guilty, on the grounds that the destruction of the American economy and the global financial crash of 2008, while regrettable, did not constitute war crimes as defined by the Geneva Convention.

Another defendant (Ari Fleischer, front row, extreme right) received only a light sentence, as the court determined that lying to the American people was too common a crime to merit more severe punishment.

In a more controversial decision, former Secretary of State Colin Powell was spared any prison time at all, after the judges ruled that being seated between former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers for the entire eight-month trial constituted "punishment enough."

Former Vice President Richard Cheney (second row, extreme left), who feigned narcolepsy throughout most of the trial, was committed to the newly established United Nations Hospital for the Criminally Insane, as was former National Security Advisor and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (next to Cheney), who insisted on being addressed as "Mrs. Bush" during the the trial.

The remaining defendants were sentenced to life terms at the Guantanamo War Crimes Penitentiary -- the same facility used to imprison the remaining leaders of the Al Qaeda terrorist organization, whose own war crimes trial began shortly after this picture was taken.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. Yes!

Every single last one of them. Poppy as well. I want him to pay for all his shit he's done over the years. No matter how old they are they're still fucking criminals and according to law they should be held accountable.

[MissWaverly]

106. why it matters

At Nuremberg it did not matter whether the acts committed were legal under the law of the state where they were committed. It only mattered that the acts were illegal under international law...It did not matter that the accused was a Head of State or Head of Government...Nuremberg was about doing justice in the hope that the application of individual accountability would prevent future crimes of such magnitude.

http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/1998/12/00_krieger_nuremberg-icc.htm

[Q]

8. Please watch the POWER OF NIGHTMARES

...it's a BBC documentary and a FREE download at: http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

If nothing else has...it will change your mind about many things regarding the 'war on terrorism' and the invasion of Iraq.

---------


The Power of Nightmares
This film explores the origins in the 1940s and 50s of Islamic Fundamentalism in the Middle East, and Neoconservatism in America, parallels between these movements, and their effect on the world today. From the introduction to Part 1:

"Both were idealists who were born out of the failure of the liberal dream to build a better world. And both had a very similar explanation for what caused that failure. These two groups have changed the world, but not in the way that either intended. Together, they created today’s nightmare vision of a secret, organized evil that threatens the world. A fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age. And those with the darkest fears became the most powerful. " The Power of Nightmares, Baby It's Cold Outside.


Producer: Adam Curtis
Production Company: BBC
Audio/Visual: sound, color
Keywords: Adam Curtis

[lonestarnot]

12. Yes everyone here needs to read this absolutely!

[BrklynLiberal]

58. video and transcript here.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1207-26.htm
Hyping Terror For Fun, Profit - And Power
by Thom Hartmann

What if there really was no need for much - or even most - of the Cold War? What if, in fact, the Cold War had been kept alive for two decades based on phony WMD threats?

What if, similarly, the War On Terror was largely a scam, and the administration was hyping it to seem larger-than-life? What if our "enemy" represented a real but relatively small threat posed by rogue and criminal groups well outside the mainstream of Islam? What if that hype was done largely to enhance the power, electability, and stature of George W. Bush and Tony Blair?

And what if the world was to discover the most shocking dimensions of these twin deceits - that the same men promulgated them in the 1970s and today?

It happened.

The myth-shattering event took place in England the first three weeks of October, when the BBC aired a three-hour documentary written and produced by Adam Curtis, titled "The Power of Nightmares." If the emails and phone calls many of us in the US received from friends in the UK - and debate in the pages of publications like The Guardian are any indicator, this was a seismic event, one that may have even provoked a hasty meeting between Blair and Bush a few weeks later.

<snip>

[Desert Liberal]

135. How do I save this video?

I'm not terribly computer savvy and I have no idea how to keep this and show it to everyone I know. Can someone please tell me how?

[Frederik]

162. Visit the link in post 8

Right-click on the MPEG1 links (three links, one to each episode) under "downloads" on the right side. Select "save as". That should do the trick!

[Desert Liberal]

181. Hey thanks! I appreciate that. Now, do you know...

There was a video that went around a few months ago. I think it was filmed in NYC with a bunch of different people all doing parts of a speech. One part stands out to me: But we have been in such midnight moments before; from the hanging trees of Jim Crow...
I don't remember much of the rest of it, though I watched it three times. It was a beautiful thing and I would love to have it. It was in a thread here somewhere. Do you have any idea which one I am talking about?

Thanks for your help! I really do appreciate it. I love my pc, but get me past basic stuff and I'm lost! :silly:

[Frederik]

182. Sorry, I don't know what that would be...

BTW, it appears that the link I advised you to download is defunct... The "screen" goes black after a couple of minutes, though the sound remains. Maybe one of the others work better.

[yurbud]

193. Does anybody have this in QUICKTIME?

All the links I've found for it have been to file formats I can't open or that were corrupted, like the one at Archive.org.

I want to get a hold of this so I can send it to my friends too.

If you have a good link or tips on getting it on gnutella, I'd appreciate it.

[Frederik]

22. Yes, it's an absolute must-see

It was well received at the Cannes last week too.

[yurbud]

95. thanks! I've been looking for an mpeg version

[il_lilac]

10. It's a shame

that this will probably not stay on greatest page. Will Bushco ever have to pay for their crimes?

[Clyde_dubyaD40]

11. The problem is

people cannot grasp the fact that a President can be just as bad as any two-bit dictator. Unfortunately the age of America being the knight in shining armor to the world is over and Bush is truely evil and selfish enough to commit any crime to achieve the goals of the neo-con agenda.

[Arugula Latte]

102. Welcome to DU, Clyde!

:toast: :hi:

[zanne]

13. 9/11, election 2000, election of Schwarzenegger....

I'm still waiting for my alarm to go off.

[earth mom]

14. It's a shame that so many would deny the truth about 911....

when the truth is so obviously before them. Proof such as buildings don't fall straight down on top of themselves unless they have been dynamited...

To deny the truth is disrespectful to those who given their very lives and who we should never ever forget.

[libhill]

19. It should have been obvious

The Government claims to this very day that they had no clue that these attacks were coming. But within just a few hours of the attacks, they had photos of the alleged hi jackers all over the TV news casts. How did they nail it down so fast, if they were supposedly taken by surprise? Give me a fuckin' break.

[yella_dawg]

53. I watched the first tower fall live on TV at work.

By the time it had completely collapsed, I believed it was an intentional demolition. Nothing has come to light to convince me otherwise. Quite the contrary, the more I learn, the more sure I become.

I don't see how anyone could believe otherwise. Seriously, it puzzles me that anyone could buy the soap-opera drama presented by the government in spite of all the obvious facts that give lie to the "official story".

[Occulus]

75. I saw a controlled demolition when WTC #7 dropped

THAT was clearly a controlled demolition, identical to every video I have ever seen of a professional demolition by a licensed demolition company.

By that and that alone, I know the entire 9/11 attack was staged from the word go.

It takes days to prepare a building for demolition in the way WTC 7 was. I won't say 'appeared to have been prepared', because the result is glaringly obvious.

WTC 7 fell straight down. It had not been hit. You can say "but they said they demolished it intentionally" all you like, but the fact remains that it takes days to set up a building for that. Every demolition expert I've ever heard talk about their work says as much.

So, what, they were going to demolish it on 9/11 anyway, and coincidentally the attack happened on the same day? :wtf:

[Griffy]

74. EXACTLY.. and its YOU (poster) that jumps to conclusions!!! ...

I dont KNOW what happened leading up to and on 9-11.. AND YOU DONT EITHER... you know the story... I suspect theres things they are hiding! .. who won in 2000?.. who won in GA senate race in 2002... who won in 2004.. whats the "offical" story! How about Iraq.. lets see, whats the "offical" story.. hmm, got those WMD's yet?... I got the memo.. did you? You GOTTA QUESTION this ENTIRE presidency... If you HAVENT REVIEW THE EVIDENCE.. that means HOURS of veiwing tapes and reading others input.

.. now, just answer this.. why did WTC7 fall? ...

.. cause i dont know, I know its not that fire!

.. unless gravity is just a theory too!

WE NEED TRUTH NOW!!...

[Lannes]

15. I wouldnt put it past them

Thats for sure but I think it was more of a case that they had evidence that it was coming and choose not to do anything to prevent it.

[Clyde_dubyaD40]

17. Bush may not have known what would happen

but I bet he sure as hell knew something was and chose to let it happen.

[RC]

27. This administration knew something was going down because

the out going Clinton administration gave them the proof and what to do about it. Physically handed it over to them.
It was shelved. Cheney went through the motions to come up with his own report.
condaslezey rice was to announce the cheney report on 9/12/01. Most of us know by now that this administration had a distraction the previous morning and never got back to it.

[Frederik]

32. Greg Palast

has uncovered a "back-off" order concerning Saudi-funded terrorism which was imposed on intelligence and law enforcement agencies immediately after the Bush admin. took office. He interviewed high-ranking officials in the FBI who confirmed that they were not permitted to investigate Osama's relatives Omar and Abdullah, who ran the terrorist-fundraiser WAMY and lived just a couple of blocks down the street from at least two of the 9/11 hijackers (/patsies?) in Falls Church, Virginia.

This prime example of investigative jornalism became a BBC Newsnight documentary, but can of course not be mentioned in the US without risk of being labelled insane.

[Nothing Without Hope]

88. LINK TO THE GREG PALAST BBC VIDEO ON OSAMA LINKS TO BUSH ADMIN

is on theleft side on Greg Palast's home page (http://www.gregpalast.com/index.cfm). It is NOT TO BE MISSED:

Real Media video link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/attack22.ram

I'm going to post a new thread on this video.

[AntiCoup2K4]

138. The FBI agent who investigated WAMY (Bin Ladens) was John O'Neill

(No relation at all to the Swift Boat pig with the same name)

O'Neill grew increasingly frustrated with the Justice Dept (i.e. Asscrotch) blocking his investigation of Osama's brothers and their possible Al Qaeda money laundering operation, so eventually, he quit.

His next job was as security director for a pair of really tall buildings in New York City. John O'Neill made it safely out of his office at the WTC on his first day of work, 9-11-01, but went back in to help others, and was found later in the rubble of the buildings :(

What a sick twist of irony that was.

[Frederik]

152. The O'Neill story is fascinating

He was forced to quit shortly before 9/11 because his laptop was stolen after he got a phone call at a conference. Then he got the job as security chief in the WTC by Jerome Hauer of Kroll Associates, a highly suspicious fella and a company that is known as the "CIA of Wall Street" (and has been investigated for espionage in France and Brazil).

The task of recovering the information on the hard drives of the WTC computers was given to German company Convar Systeme Deutschland GmbH. After having recovered only a few harddrives, Convar announced that an very big volume of money had been moved through the computers just before and during the attack. They were puzzled by this...

And we would probably have heard more about it, hadn't it been for the fact that Convar was soon afterwards acquired by Kroll Associates.

[yurbud]

31. Hitler on why people won't see through big lie

In view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big.

Such a falsehood will never enter their heads and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others; yes, even when enlightened on the subject, they will long doubt and waver, and continue to accept at least one of these causes as true.

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, part I chapter X

[Auntie Bush]

47. If I were a Rethug...I'd hang my head in shame! n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

49. If you were a Rethug, you would barricade your mind and heart against

believing the truth.

[undeterred]

67. I believed the cover story for a while even though much of it was

implausible... it was too shocking to think anything else. But it is lying which characterizes this whole administration- whether its lying about WMDs or Social Security or John Kerry's military record. They lie so routinely about everything that it is impossible to believe that they are not lying about 9/11/01, especially when the event has served their purposes so perfectly.

Lying is a form of coercion and wherever there is lying there are usually worse things, like murdering, going on too.

I think it works this way for the other side too: Bush is either all truth or all lies.. For me the latter is so much easier to believe.

[yurbud]

91. Early on, I realized the Bush presidency is the movie FRAILTY

A single dad sees an angel who tells him to kill people. One kid thinks dad is nuts, but can't get cops to believe him because he's a kid. His brother thinks it's all great and wants to help dad.


That's where we are now. It's hard to see a middle ground.

[yurbud]

20. I agree with all but "it's deliberate un-solvability"

We we were attacked with people and money from our ally, Saudi Arabia, by a group that had logistical support from another ally, Pakistan.

Neither of those countries were retaliated against, questioned publicly, or even ostracized, and the role of Saudi was censored from the Congressional inquiry report.


Al Qaeda itself evolved out of groups that worked with us in the 80s, and it's hard to find a definite dividing line before 9/11 when Osama moved from friend to foe (in Washington's view, not in terms of his actions).

You can bring these fairly simple facts up to people and they just can't even process it because they have been bombarded with unsubstantiated disinformation.

[Frederik]

28. Yes, when I suggest the involvent of Pakistani officials

such as ISI chief General Mahmud Ahmad, on conservative websites - I don't visit them often, but once in a while - I am called insane and anti-American and so on. The denial runs deep. I don't think people are interested in truth anymore, they just want to be fed the most comfortable illusion. Scary times.

[suegeo]

41. Because there is no line there to find?

You said: it's hard to find a definite dividing line before 9/11 when Osama moved from friend to foe.

Maybe that's because ole Osama has always been a friend to our fascist junta, and pal that he is, he gave the junta the excuse they needed to seize total control.

USAma has never been a foe to the crazy fascists who seized control of America.

[Nothing Without Hope]

80. Yes, Osama was hooked up with American agents before, maybe he

still is. With this bunch of lying criminals in the White House and controlling the corporate media, we just don't know.

[mopaul]

83. the bush's & bin laden families go waaaay back, pals and partners

but 99% don't realize it.

[Frederik]

92. According to Leonid Shebarshin

former head of foreign intelligence in the KGB, who was stationed in Iran and Pakistan during the Afghan war, Bin Laden may still be a CIA asset.

According to French intelligence sources, quoted in conservative French newspaper Le Figaro in late 2001, Bin Laden was hospitalized at the American hospital in Dubai in July 2001 and was visited by the CIA station chief. The French intelligence officials said that this "conformed with a certain American policy".

[Nothing Without Hope]

52. Yes, I also disagree with the "unsolvability" They tried - destroying

evidence wherever possible and stonewalling and lying where there was evidence that could not be destroyed. But as David Ray Griffin makes clear, there is a LOT of evidence staring us right in the face and more will come out if a true investigation is done.

More on the historic lecture by David Ray Griffin, including links and update, downthread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3704625&mesg_id=3705126

[TankLV]

60. but that's "OLD NEWS" they tell us.

Sit down and shut up.

(just practicing for the inevitable nightmare)

[Nothing Without Hope]

68. I think what they will say is mostly two things, both of which we must

think how best to phrase rebuttals. (That they are both statements that can be rebutted is obvious, but we have to overcome the unbelievability factor by phrasing the rebuttals in a way that doesn't CLOSE doors.)

The two main falso statements that we must rebut (feel free to add your own):

1. "The 9/11 attacks were thoroughtly investigated and there was no hint of this. The case is closed."
   
2. "What kind of an unpatriotic, crazy conspiracy theorist are you to think that the President would order an attack on his own country?"

We need to brainstorm the plans for a campaign to unblock this issue and open people's eyes to the fact that the truth must and can be found.

[mopaul]

171. just 2 people make a conspiracy, in this there were hundreds

only a few of which will get caught, if ever. deny ability

[CJCRANE]

89. The point about 9/11

was that it was carried out by muslims/arabs mostly from Saudi Arabia. It's a simple rhetorical trick to associate all muslims/arabs=terrorists. Once that's done, the uninformed and simple-minded can be kept content knowing that the "terrorists" are taking a battering (even if in reality the Iraqis etc had nothing to do with 9/11).

[libhill]

179. Evidently

There are a huge proportion of the American people who are uninformed / simple minded. Because the rat bastard keeps getting re elected.

[Frederik]

21. 3,000 lives

That was the number of people that died during poppy's utterly pointless invasion of Panama in 1989, to "arrest" his former drug running partner Manuel Noriega.

The same number of people died on 9/11.

I'm not sure who ultimately planned and executed 9/11, but the argument that "they wouldn't kill 3,000 people just to further their agenda" is demonstrably false. 100,000 people - probably more - have been killed in this meaningless war in Iraq. They couldn't give a rat's ass about 3,000 lives lost, even if they were white Anglo-Saxon Wall Street lives.

[libhill]

25. Collateral damage, necessary sacrifice-

That's their logic. I've always wondered, if this really was a terrorist attack, why did they fly over the biggest nuclear power plant on the East Coast, which seems like it would have been a preemo target, to hit a couple of buildings - and early in the morning too, not even a peak traffic time. Someone knew exactly what they were doing - and it wasn't some low tech guy living in a cave in Afghanistan.

[BrklynLiberal]

33. Absolutely right. They don't care about the people dying due to poor air

quality, poor health care, lack of old age support. How many people are going to suffer and die when they lose their homes, their pensions, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security? These people could not care less who lives or dies as long as they achieve their end, which is ultimately achieving total power and putting lots of money in the pockets of their cronies....the price in lives of mere citizens does not matter.
These plutocrats really are the personification of evil. That they should use Christianity as a tool to gain their end is the ultimate irony. The only reason that any Church would go along with them is to gain power for itself, which is the only reason a Church ever went along with any political power figure.
Their motto should really be "EAT THE POOR", much like Marie Antoinette said "Let them eat cake.". Their concern for the people is at about the same level.
They are laughing hysterically over their gout-enducing food and drink, as they watch the poor and middle-class self-destruct in their mindless championing of this administration, whose only goal is to destroy those very people who support them so blindly.
How disgustingly sad.

[yurbud]

26. on anniversary or even Memorial Day, freeway blog 9/11 case

freewayblogger.com has a great method for cheaply getting your message out, and there will be a captive audience on Memorial Day next week and Labor Day at the end of summer.

Simply figure out some question about 9/11 that still bugs you, then put the URL of the website that answers it best (or elaborates on the question well).

Plant a bug in people's heads and don't let it die.

I teach college research paper writing, and as, one of many options, pose some simple questions about 9/11 like could it have been prevented and why weren't planes scrambled. I don't spend a lot of time talking about it, but students invariably are shocked when they see how transparent the lies are.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. Great idea! I live near a major hiway that accesses 2 major airports!!

[yurbud]

93. check out freewayblogger.com for how to

glad to be of help.

I'm taking my first shot at it this coming memorial day.

[BrklynLiberal]

110. Thank you VERY much!!!!

[Project_Willow]

119. I Have an Idea

It occurred to me a couple of days ago. I didn't want to post it publicly, but I have no idea whom to tell.

It is along the lines of the freeway blogger, only the sign would be simple:



Or if you haven't gone that far, use LIHOP.

People will see it, wonder what it is and hopefully they'll try to find out. They will go on their own journey.

What do you all think?

[yurbud]

167. good idea--too esoterically put

figure out a way to say it simply, so someone who hasn't tracked this debate can follow it:

Who profited from 9/11? (with a pic of Bush, Cheney, Halliburton, Bechtel logos)

or post the scramble time for F-15s and F-16s over the time we knew those planes were hijacked and unmolested by interceptors.

OR

Bush lied about Iraq--
Did he lie about 9/11? (or some shorter version)

Pick a specific, concrete, easily visualizable issue that you can get in a few words--and put the link at the bottom.

[Project_Willow]

180. Thanks for the input!

thing is, I do think specific arguments can be too complicated for a sign, so I want people to find out what MIHOP means, to do their own search, to ask questoins and start conversations, like "Have you seen that sign all over town? What is that about?"

Maybe that in itself is not a good strategy, but I think it might be worth a try.

[yurbud]

192. I'd at least put Bush in their spelled out somewhere

or just say it flat out:

9/11: Bush made it happen on purpose.

Take a propaganda lesson from the right. They don't try to be coy, they argue by assertion, say things flat out, and keep saying them until they become the conventional wisdom.

"Taxes are too high."

"More people believe Elvis is alive than believe they will collect Social Security benefits."

"Privatization saves money!"

and on and on ad nauseum.

None of those stand up to serious scrutiny, but they are said so often they become conventional wisdom.

I have heard more and more people say MIHOP, unsolicited from me. We should make it acceptable to say out loud, in public, not as a riddle or a whisper, but as an obvious fact.

[EFerrari]

29. I still know what they did that summer

and my personal favorite piece of mendacity is that jihadi's passport found at the WTC site. I believe in magic bullets. too.

[Nothing Without Hope]

82. Yeah, "lookee at what I found!" And it was swallowed whole. People

REALLY do not want to believe the truth about this, and the fascist-collaborating corporate media encourages this disbelief.

And there are so many convenient distractions, with more provided every day by the Poodle Press.

http://workingforchange.speedera.net.nyud.net:8090/

[GoBlue]

30. If I am not mistaken this is the challenge

see sig line.

[Frederik]

36. It's all in the sig line

That quote says it all.

[EFerrari]

34. These evil evildoers of evil always turn up on CIA payroll.

It's like they're branded, and we get to use their name like "Coke" or "Pepsi".

[Lost4words]

37. a common investigative tactic is WHO PROFITS MOST?

all this illegitimate cabal can do is destroy, of course they did it.

I only wish there really was a god that would strike down these lying fascists scum.

[Spiffarino]

39. Nominated

I can't say I'm a "believer" as such, but BushCo's lack of candor, the suppression of evidence, and the just plain convenience of the thing for BushCo's agenda cry out for a deep and thorough investigation.

No, mopaul...never shut up about it. We deserve to know the truth whatever it is.

[Frederik]

40. Ashcroft may face prison

over 9/11 cover-up, says Daniel Ellsberg (of the "Pentagon Papers" fame):

"Ellsberg says that if Edmonds' allegations are confirmed, the current Attorney General could be judged obstructive and share the fate of A.G. John Mitchell --who in Ellsberg v. Mitchell famously tried to squelch Ellsberg's 1971 revelations, and served prison time over the affair.

"John Ashcroft may well sleep eventually in the same cell as John Mitchell," Ellsberg said."

(...)

"Talk of US government interference in 9/11 investigations, and the considerable volume of online analysis discounting the official conspiracy theory, resonate with Ellsberg.

"I'm not an expert on all this," he admits. "But I am increasingly open to the explanation that people in the administration did see this coming... and may have indeed reduced some obstacles.., or opened the door, in effect. I haven't been absolutely convinced on that, but it does seem to me to be an open question that deserves investigation."

"Now beyond that... it seems to me quite plausible that --plausible, that's all I'd say-- that Pakistan was quite involved in this, and that many Saudis were well informed on this," says Ellsberg.

"And to say that. To say Pakistan-- is to me, to say C.I.A. Because I think the relations between the Pakistan I.S.I. and CIA were very close from the beginning. And it's hard to say that the I.S.I knew something that the CIA had no knowledge of."

"So if you say, do I accept confidently, and do I rely on the official interpretation? Certainly not. But, I wouldn't say that I have been yet been thoroughly convinced by any alternative."

"I can add one thing though -from my own experience, that's relevant."

"Is it possible... that an American president could have... welcomed an attack on America that he would interpret as justifying an invasion of another country?"

"Well, that's more than possible, that happened --under a president that I served. Lyndon Johnson did put American destroyers in harms way, deliberately provoking an attack.. in the Tonkin Gulf. Not only in August of '64, but in February of '65. ...There was an attack on August 2nd, and that was not unwelcome to the United States at that point."

http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds1.htm

[unblock]

42. the simple fact that THEY didn't investigate the SH*T out of it proves it

who wouldn't investigate this sort of thing?? when anyone is attacked? if my home burns down, my first reaction wouldn't be "kill my neighbor", or "kill that guy who lives 3 blocks down that i don't like", but rather, "WHO THE F*CK DID THIS?"

if investigation then determined that my neighbor or the guy 3 blocks down did it, THEN i would figure out what action to take against them.

if they honestly had nothing to do with 9/11 and simply decided, hey, let's just claim bin laden did this and invade the middle east regardless of who actually did it, well, these people are the most heinously evil and cynical people imaginable.

oh, wait....

[glitch]

86. Indeed. The many, many logic flaws give them away. nt

[Frederik]

43. Never forget the Anthrax letters from Fort Deterick

A CURIOUS FLOW OF EVENTS

The following is a merger of “A Chronology of Anthrax Events,” published by the South Florida Sun-sentinel,<2> and the simultaneous proceedings of the Patriot Bill in Congress as reported in the local press.

Sept.16 -- Anti-terrorism bill proposed.<3>

Sept.18 – Two letters containing Ames anthrax are postmarked in Trenton, N.J., addressed to Tom Brokaw of NBC Nightly News and the New York Post.

Sept.28 – Boy visiting ABC network in New York contracts anthrax.

Oct.2 – USA Patriot Act anti-terrorism bill is introduced in Congress.

Oct.3 – Tabloid editor of Boca Raton Sun, Florida, hospitalized with anthrax and dies two days later.

Oct. 3 – Senate Majority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (Dem., S.D.) says he doubts the Senate could take up the anti-terrorist legislation before next week, as the administration had asked. Attorney General John A. Ashcroft accuses Senate Democrats of dragging their feet.<4>

Oct. 4 – Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick J. Leahy (Dem., Vt.) accuses the administration of reneging on an agreement on the anti-terrorist bill. Some warn that “lawmakers are were overlooking constitutional flaws in their rush to meet the administration’s timetable.”<5>

Oct. 6 – Under the headline, “Glow of bipartisanship seems to dim,” the Baltimore Sun reports: “…opposed by most Senate Democrats, Ashcroft complained about the rather slow pace…over his request for law enforcement powers…Hard feelings remain.”<6>

Oct. 8 – Under the headline, “Cracks in Bipartisanship Start to Show,” The Washington Post reports, “Congress has lost some of the shock-induced unity with which it first responded to the <9/11> attacks.”<7>

Oct.9 – Senator Feingold blocks an attempt to rush the Patriot Act to a vote with little debate and no opportunity for amendments. Feingold criticizes the Bill as a threat to liberty.<8>

Oct.9 – Identical anthraxed letters are postmarked in Trenton, N.J., with lethal doses to Senators Daschle and Leahy.

Oct. 10 & 11 – The original batch of the Ames strain of anthrax is destroyed with the permission of the FBI, making tracing the anthrax type more difficult.<9>

Oct.11 – First Senate version of the Bill passes.<10>

Oct.12 – First House version of the Bill passes.<11>Oct.12 – House-Senate debate on Bill starts.<12>

Oct.12 – Second anthrax case reported at NBC in NYC.

Oct.13 – Baltimore Sun reports that the media may have been targeted for a “coordinated bioterrorism” attack.<13>

Oct.13 – President Bush says: “The anthrax attacks might be tied to Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaida terrorist network.”<14>

Oct.15 – Tom Brokaw of NBC opens anthraxed letter containing Islamic threats and phrases.

Oct.15 – Senator Daschle’s office opens the letter mailed Oct.9, containing a lethal dose of anthrax. Senator Leahy’s similar letter was misrouted to Virginia.

Oct.16 – The Senate office buildings shut down.

Oct.17 – House of Representatives shut down; 28 congressional staffers test positive for anthrax.

Oct.17 – The New York and Florida letters are found to contain the Ames strain.

Oct.18 – An assistant of CBS Dan Rather contracts anthrax.Oct.21 – Letters to N.Y.Post, NBC and Senator Daschle are found to have identical handwriting of “Death to America, Death to Israel, Allah is Great.”

Oct. 24 – House passes the final version of the Patriot Act and other previously unpopular Bush projects: Alaska oil drilling, $25 billion in tax cuts for corporations, taps into Social Security funds and cuts in education.<15>

Oct.25 – Congressional mail halted. Senator Daschle switched from supporting a 2 year limit on the Patriot Act to defending a 4 year sunset clause as the “appropriate balance.”<16>

Oct.26 – Senate passes the final version Patriot Act.<17>

Oct.26 – President Bush signs the constitutionally questionable USA Patriot Act.<18>

Oct.27 – Supreme Court shut down with anthrax scare.<19>

November -- No more anthrax letters received by anyone.
November – Congressional buildings reopened.
November – Three top anthrax experts with knowledge of the U.S. bioweapons program died under suspicious circumstances within a ten day period.

[slaveplanet]

146. Correction

September 16 was a Sunday.

The pivotal day was actually the date of the new moon, Sepember 17th 2001.

this was the day the "Mobilization Against Terrorism Act"(patriot act) was introduced.

The day the process of "stealing freedom" began, an insurance policy to make sure the "real" terrorists won.

eerily(coincidentally?), In the late 1930s, the British Israel World Federation Movement's Destiny Magazine published articles identifying September 17, 2001 as the target date for beginning their planned global theocratic state -- a"Kingdom of Heaven on Earth."



http://tinyurl.com/ahpvl

[Frederik]

154. Thanks

Slightly eerie, but I would tend to think it's a coincidence.

[DemonFighterLives]

44. It is believable to me

After seeing a great man Kennedyed and another great man Wellstoned, anything seems possible. The truth of 911 will probably not come out for 100 years if then.
On C-spn right now is Arlen Specter repeated from Wed. The last man standing from the Warren commission coverup. I am hoping for a deathbed tell all by him. Magic bullet my ars, magic fire on 911, my ars.

[Nothing Without Hope]

70. The truth of 9/11 is out there, it is known by a LOT of people, and it CAN

come out. Don't give up on this.

If you haven't watched or listed to the historic David Ray Griffin lecture, you must - audio and video files are available online, or a DVD or VHS tape can be purchased from CSPAN. I posted on it downthread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3704625&mesg_id=3705126

[DemonFighterLives]

78. I watched Griffin on C-spn

It was great, but I see it getting no foothold. Sibel Edmonds and the 50 whistleblowers should break through too, but nothing yet.
"They" will do their best to cover up everything and usually the rest "dems" go along for the good of the country, whatever, whatever.

Posner has been around for a few years attempting to trash Kennedy conspiracists and ABC and Jennings just had a show last year proclaiming the magic bullet story true beyond any doubt. I just go on doubting, but no, I will not give up or forget.
:hide:

[Nothing Without Hope]

81. CSPAN announced that there were so many requests, Griffin's talk is

going to be rebroadcast a third time. They also offer a VHS and a DVD of the lecture and have put the video of it online at their site. This is an important breakthrough into the public conscioiusness. I bought a DVD and have been getting disbelieving friends to watch Griffin's lecture.

This info is in the opening post and replies in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3704625&mesg_id=3705126

We must not allow ourselves to believe that the truth is buried so deep that we cannot get it out. There IS a movement towards more consciousness of the enormity of the lies and crimes of this administration. All the pieces of the puzzle are there and they WILL be put together.

[DemonFighterLives]

84. I applaud your confidence

Just seems that something big needs to happen before W and his henchmen will investigate themselves. I am hopeful though.

[Nothing Without Hope]

90. No, they won't investigate themselves. But they are NOT invulnerable.

That's part of the psyops campaign they have imposed on us. The push to investigate and the exposure of truth have to come outside the administration's top.

Confidence? No, it's more that we MUST push for exposure and I cannot bear to sit back because it's "hopeless." We can't afford despair. It's NOT hopeless, and there IS movement to more exposure of the truth. It won't happen overnight, but there is progress.

[corbett]

45. http://www.reopen911.org

Don't try to convince others of the truth of 9/11. Give them this URL and tell them to order a FREE copy of the DVD so that they can see the bulk of the evidence for themselves. It wouldn't hurt, I suppose, to ask them why Halliburton was awarded a $70,000,000+ bonus a few weeks ago after allegations of fraud and overbilling were substantiated.

http://www.reopen911.org

[understandinglife]

46. It is a shame to have to admit that "America" ceased on Dec 9 2000

But it is the truth.

Want it back?

Here's how:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3688434#3690417

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - it is a shame that we are on the path to MNA Day 4

[BrklynLiberal]

51. EXCELLENT!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

48. Here is a recent thread with links and updates for David Ray Griffin

Besides video and audio files for his historic Madison lecture, there is also a 60 minute Pacifica Radio interview and a link to the full text of his earlier book on the 9/11 attacks.

His lecture was broadcast twice on CSPAN, and one of the updates is that it was going to be shown again, schedule TBA, because CSPAN had received so many requests for it. We need to keep watch to know when the rebroadcast will be and spread the word.

If you haven't yet watched or listed to the 120 minutes of his Madison lecture, you MUST. The thread is here (where it was transferred after being posted in GD):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x39690
Thread title: David Ray Griffin evidence Bush admin complicit in 9/11 - update & links

In my experience, you're absolutely right about the "unbelievability factor." So many people who are willing to believe these unspeakable criminals stole elections, murdered so many in their pointless Iraq war, and dictated torture as a routine policy simply cannot bring themselves to the next step and accept as a possibility that must be investigated that the Bush Administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. They don't want to believe it's that bad, that their evil so extreme.

It's not a new phenomenon, this unbelievability factor:

It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good. --Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

At this point, IMO the best resource we have to convince people to open their minds to the possibility of 9/11 MIHOP or LIHOP is to get them to listen to David Ray Griffin's lecture as a start. A friend I talked into watching it has stopped saying that "surely" the Administration wouldn't attack their own country. She dug into Griffin's history and background and told me with great sadness that Griffin is no lightweight but a very respected theologian with a solid history of scholarship.

People have to be open to the truth before they can do something about it. This was such a massive conspiracy, with so many people knowing - all those "put" options and government workers who were afraid to come forward - that once a serious investigation is begun, so will the leaks. And even without leaks, there are so many easily provable lies and distortions in the 9/11 report. But first people have to push for that investigation, and to do that, they have to get past the "unbelievability factor."

Edited to add: I am VERY glad this thread has not been exiled to invisibility in the 9/11 forum like so many others on this topic - thanks, mods!

[BrklynLiberal]

54. I ordered 2 DVD's of his speech on CSPAN. One to keep for me, and one to

loan out to others so they can see the truth.

[Nothing Without Hope]

55. I bought a DVD for the same reason. The link to the CSPAN order

page is one of the ones that is given in the "links and updates" thread I mentioned in my post:

CSPAN has put up the full video on its site and there are other sites with it in various formats. There are also audio files.

And don't miss the 60 minute Pacifica Radio interview of Griffin. It brings out additional points.

ed;typo

[bpilgrim]

87. EXCELLENT POST! - must read

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

[Nothing Without Hope]

118. Thank you. I have been frustrated over that thread being moved to the

9/11 forum, where it could be voted to Greatest Page and was invisible except for the minority of people who closely follow that forum. I'm very glad a few people are seeing it now and hope that some future threads intended for General Discussion on 9/11 are also left in the General Discussion forum where they can be seen - and discussed. This is not a narrow or "closet" issue, it is not tinfoilhattery - it is all tied with everything else these people have done and are planning and we need to get more light on it.

So thanks again, mods, for not moving the current thread.

[understandinglife]

107. Very, very helpful, Hope. Thank you!

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - And, BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[Al-CIAda]

50. I was FULLY BEHIND BUSH after 9/11, it took a year

to see through the lies. Its been a long, emotional trip for me. Going from supporting him, to questioning the sense of our subsequent actions, to suspecting nefarious activities, to suspecting HIM -well, more accurate, the PNAC, which sealed the deal.

PNAC, PNAC, PNAC. Why does no one dare speak its name? Because it is a short walk to LIHOP/MIHOP from there.

[Frederik]

94. Took me nearly three years

to even begin to doubt the official story. I heard about people who thought it was a conspiracy, but my reaction was the same as everybody's - "they're lunatics". Then I did a google search just out of curiosity, and started reading some of the material on sites like From the Wilderness etc etc - all the "conspiracy sites". I wanted to know why these morons would believe such idiotic things when they obviously weren't true.

After about a week, I had become convinced that the official story had serious flaws that I had never heard questioned before. It was particularly Paul Thompson's site that convinced me, because he only uses mainstream sources, and Sibel Edmond's and Indira Singh's stories were beginning to come out then as well. And Hopsicker. It was earth-shattering when I finally had to realize that the official story is at least partly fictitious. That changed my view of the world ever so slightly.

[Al-CIAda]

101. Your procees is quite familiar. We're through the looking glass.

Subsequently I took a look at the 2000 'election', as I thought that too was just 'sour grapes'. My god, what has this country become.

[Nothing Without Hope]

57. Here's the official site of the 9/11 commision - it's OFFICIALLY CLOSED

Here's the page:
http://www.9-11commission.gov

...and here's the official message at the top:

"This web site was frozen on September 20, 2004 at 12:00 AM, EDT. It is now a Federal record managed by the National Archives and Records Administration."

Among other things, the page lists the members of the 9/11 commission. We must never forget that they lied so profoundly in approving the report.

[spooked911]

71. One way or another, sonner or later, we will get a NEW 9/11 commission

one that will give us the truth and not a disgusting sack of lies.

[Nothing Without Hope]

73. I agree with you - WE MUST NOT ACCEPT THE LIE. It's not even a GOOD lie!

David Ray Griffin and others have shown how the 9/11 report is nothing but lies, omissions and distortions, many of them very obvious - like omitting the WTC7 tower collapse completely and lying about the basic architecture of the other buildings. This is public record.

The 9/11 Commission Report is an outrageous, obvious lie.

[spooked911]

79. Yep! The movement is growing. The problem is the GOP is willing

to overlook almost everything illegal, unethical done by this amdinistration, the chances of them taking up 9/11 is essentially nil.

Our job is to educate the public to try to get better public awareness.

[anarchy1999]

59. MoPaul, are you feeling especially fired up this morning? It's okay,

me too, three and four. I think it may have something to do with the moon. I don't know.

I just wish "they'd" hurry up and drop their next "shock & awe" on us so we could be over with it and move on. This slow painful drip (ie, water torture) is making me crazy.

Seems to be having the same effect on you. Peace, babe. We'll all get through it one way or the other.

[FreedomAngel82]

61. What's also a damn shame

is even if Usama was apart of it (I don't think he was personally from what I've seen of this case) he's still out on the bound. Bush obviously doesn't think about him at all. If you were a Bush supporter wouldn't this make you upset? Wouldn't you want him brought to justice?

[Nothing Without Hope]

69. They can't "bring him to justice" - he might talk. That's why Bush asked

for his head on dry ice. The lie must be protected. They know that THIS is the scandal that would bring them down even with the one-party government that they have engineered with their election fraud.

[RBHam]

76. it's a damn shame, that's for sure...

feeling your incredulity...

[Terry in Austin]

85. Right on!

Well said, mopaul.

The red pill is a bitter one...

[Progressive4Life]

114. Thank you!

I, for one, refuse to allow the truth to sink into oblivion. We can't shut up about this until we get answers!

[applegrove]

115. Bush and Co took the sentiment and support they

garnered after 9/11 and ran it into the ground. The neocons want to be perceived as evil monsters. That is how they plan on ruling the world and keeping extremists extreme. They would have done it whether 9/11 happened or not. They would have found a way to set precedents for perpetual war.

[bpilgrim]

124. "They would have done it whether 9/11 happened or not." not a chance

without a pearl harbor like event, like 911 that they planned and executed.

psst... pass the word

peace

[Al-CIAda]

116. .

[Liberal In Texas]

123. I have a theory...

...that in 5 or 10 or maybe even 20 years, so much 9/11 evidence will be found pointing at Bushco, that someone will feel the need to slip another "official" story out.

It'll be something on the order that they did "pull" the WTC buildings, on purpose. They will tell us that they did it to prevent them toppling over and causing even more loss of life. The story, that will be leaked or given on someones deathbed or something, will also say that they couldn't tell the American people at the time that they'd done this becuase our delicate sensibilities couldn't handle it right then or some other official lie.

But it'll all be just more smoke screen to obscure their real role in the "attack."

[Xena]

126. mopaul...

Cry! You have just hit it! Thanks!

[theearthisround]

127. Everyone knows 911 was an inside job! Thats why we havent had more terror!

It was almost a year ago when the Zogby Poll came out showing 49% of new yorkers believe high level government officials had prior knowledge and conciously failed to act. 60% said the 911 investigation should be reopened.

I've found from my experience every single person I know understands 9/11 was an inside job. When someone hears the truth they understand it on an unconcious level. People like Alex Jones have been on Coast to Coast 7 or so times. Thats means 40,000,000+ people have heard the whole truth 7 or so times. I find that at most 5% of people who hear the truth conciously deny it. When you really listen to them though you can tell they know its the truth on an unconcious level, they just conciously deny it out of fear of what acknowledging it would mean.

Using a simple language trick called time distortion you can get anyone to come to terms with it.

Tell them this:
"As you look into the future and fully understand the whole truth, you can look back on today and realise you understood it the entire time."

(not required but good)
"And you understand, Now, that its OK to change your beliefs, Now."

slightly change your voice tone for the stuff in italics (very slightly!)

This gets them viewing the present as the past, and the future as the present, it works like a charm.

[Al-CIAda]

128. ...until it becomes needed again -that is. n/t

[Davey Crockett]

131. Bill Clinton said

that when he heard of the jets crashing the first thing he thought of was it was Osama Bin Laden. Is he part of the plot also?

[Al-CIAda]

132. Bush CLAIMS he said (lied)...

BUSH:...you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."



OOPS!!!
IMPOSSIBLE It was impossible for him to have seen the first plane hit. That footage of the first plane strike (taken by french filmakers who happened to be there) was not aired but until the next day. The 'one bad pilot' comment is total fiction and may reveal something far more sinister.


Bush Caught in a Lie About the 9/11 WTC Attacks
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bushlie.html


=====

French Filmmakers Jules and Gedeon Naudet were there to witness this tragedy. They found themselves in lower Manhattan as the attack unfolded, and they captured unique footage from the area, including the only images from inside Tower 1, where firefighters were trying to get a handle on the dangerous situation.

Their footage includes scenes of firefighters trying to escape from Tower 1 after Tower 2 had collapsed. Jules and Gedeon, who are brothers, were within a block of Tower 2 when it collapsed, and narrowly escaped death.
On Sunday, March 10 at 9 p.m., almost six months to the day after the terror attacks, CBS will broadcast 9/11 - an extraordinary film, telling the story of that day from the perspective of those who survived it. The two-hour film will be hosted by actor/director Robert De Niro.
http://www.frenchculture.org/tv/programs/naudet911.html

=====

Memory: Remember It Right?
Newsweek
Sept. 20 issue

- It's well documented that President George W. Bush was in a Florida classroom on 9/11 when chief of staff Andrew Card told him a second plane had hit the World Trade Center. But how did Bush learn about the first crash?
Two of his recollections are similar, but factually impossible. On Dec. 4, 2001, and Jan. 5, 2002, Bush told audiences he saw the first plane hit the tower on TV before he entered the classroom. But he couldn't have seen it; nobody saw it live on TV. Between those recountings, on Dec. 20, Bush told The Washington Post that Karl Rove told him. This isn't to say the president is a fabulist. He's just exhibiting a prominent example of a common memory glitch, says UCLA psychology fellow Dan Greenberg, who published a paper this summer in the journal Applied Cognitive Psychology called "President Bush's False Flashbulb Memory of 9/11/01."
Greenberg says this is more evidence that "flashbulb memories"—major events people remember "like it was yesterday"—are not as indelible as experts thought. (This was proved in a four-year study after the 1986 Challenger explosion, when witnesses dramatically altered their memories of the disaster.) Greenberg thinks Bush saw the first-tower crash footage replayed so often that it seemed as if he had seen it as it happened. Greenberg struggles to explain why Bush, having remembered events differently in his second recounting, went back to the original version. The White House declined to comment.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5970907/site/newsweek/

[Frederik]

153. That was my first thought as well

Bin Laden was not an unknown figure before 9/11, as you may recall. What has that got to do with anything? Whether Bin Laden was actually involved is still unclear, but he may well have been. He was in any case not the main financier, organizer or mastermind, as not even the 9/11 Commission alleges.

Bin Laden's involvment does of course not exclude American facilitation or complicity. Quite the contrary, if you consider the ties between the Bush and Bin Laden families.

[libhill]

177. Nope

But he was pandering to Bushco, playing politics. Clinton may be a "player", but he's not a mass murderer. Get real.

[AuntiBush]

133. It is a "Crying" shame, at that...

[Al-CIAda]

134. .

:argh:

[JackDragna]

136. It's a real shame..

..that those who are convinced the president DID orchestrate the 9/11 attacks keep banging their drums despite having no hard evidence to back their claims. I'll admit they were grossly negligent, but saying they intentionally did something is something else. I see you're more than ready to join the rest of the tinfoil hat crew who skewers the crazy skeptics who actually ask you to provide some proof of your claims. I know the Republicans pull some dirty tricks, but if you don't want to be chided in the manner you're being chided right now, try posting in a manner different than you "oh, woe is us, the poor skeptics make us into martyrs" you're using right now.

[AntiCoup2K4]

139. OK, Jack. Where's the HARD EVIDENCE that Bin Laden did it?

And please, for Christ's sake do not mention that half assed Elvis impersonator's "confession" in Kandahar. I look more like Osama than that guy did.

[Pastiche423]

140. I've been asking the same question

for a couple of years on this board, and I still haven't received an answer.

Could it possibly mean there is no evidence?

Ya think?

:wow:

[Frederik]

158. You can't expect

someone to "show you the evidence" in a post on a message board. Would you please show me the evidence that it was a surprise attack orchestrated by Usama Bin Ladin from Afghanistan? You have to make a little effort to research it.

There is voluminous circumstantial evidence that indicates that it was in fact not a surprise attack, and that there was some level of American complicity or facilitation. See my post below for a couple of links to help you get started with your research.

[JackDragna]

169. I love the smell of logical fallacies in the morning.

That there may be little evidence Bin Laden was involved does not necessarily mean the U.S. government was involved. The point of Mopaul's original post was to point the finger at Bush. Until hard evidence exists to single out the government as the culprit, all finger-pointing does is make us look foolish.

So, I ask again: where's the evidence the president of the United States orchestrated the 9/11 attacks?

[Frederik]

176. If you're asking for evidence that Bush organized it

Then it doesn't exist, and I personally don't think Bush had anything to do with it. I must point to a logical fallacy of your own though: "U.S. Government" does not equal "the president of the United States".

[TheWatcher]

189. What A Brilliantly Diverting Argument

So, I ask again: where's the evidence the president of the United States orchestrated the 9/11 attacks?

There isn't any because Bush doesn't RUN ANYTHING. This man couldn't run a Bowling Alley from 1 till 7 in the Morning.

However, you might want to take a look at his handlers for better answers.

What is YOUR theory about what happened?

Enlighten us.

[mopaul]

143. I know I should be more like you

and just have 'faith'

[JackDragna]

170. No, I should be more like you..

..and make accusations based on personal dislike of politicians.

[mopaul]

186. so i'm accusing bushco of 3,000 murders just cause i don't like him?

nah, it ain't like that

[Frederik]

150. You haven't looked for it

You can't expect somebody to "show you the evidence" in a post on a message board. You have make an effort to go through the material if you're truly interested, and make up your own mind. It took me several weeks from I first started visiting some of those tinfoily sites out of curiosity till I had become convinced that the official version had serious problems.

There are different opinions as to the level of complicity or facilitation, but the story as usually told - that it came as a surprise attack and that "intelligence failures" are to blame - is simply not true, just as "intelligence failures" are not the reason for the war in Iraq.

To begin with, I'd recommend Paul Thompson's site, as he uses only mainstream media sources.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

And, you should get acquainted with Sibel Edmonds. She has the support of senators Leahy (D) and Grassley (R) - Grassley said he found her "highly credible" - she has testified before Congress and the 9/11 Commission (though none of her testimony made it into the report, of course), and she has recently formed a National Security Whistleblower Coalition which comprises 50 former employees of agencies such as the FBI, CIA, NSA etc.

She has been gagged in an unprecedented manner by the Justice Dept., but here are some of the things she has said she discovered during her time as a translator in the FBI (and the Justice Dept Inspector General has confirmed her allegations -in a report that is of course classified):

- The FBI had very precise information about the 9/11 plot by April 2001, one of the sources was an Iranian 10-year FBI informant. It is reasonable to assume that this person is "Dr." Abdusattar Sheikh, who had two of the hijackers living in his house in San Diego. Dan Hopsicker has inquired about Mr Sheikh:
http://www.madcowprod.com/04112005.html

- Well-known American politicians and heads of government agencies were involved in drug smuggling, arms trafficking and illegal nuclear proliferation that was in some way related to the attacks (and she has indicated that those were both Republicans and Democrats).

- Certain people in FBI headquarters blocked any investigation by field agents into the future hijackers that might have prevented the attack. Even though they knew very well what the plan was.

You should also listen to the April 27th interview with JP Morgan Chase/Ptech whistleblower Indira Singh on KPFA Guns & Butter:
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=13&limit=N

...and do a google search on her to find out more.

The above is just the beginning. The information is out there.

[JackDragna]

172. No argument here.

I've looked at most of the sources you list above. I am fairly well convinced the government knew something was in the works. My bone of contention is that the government was directly involved. There may not be much of a line of distinction between gross negligence and being part and parcel of a plot, but to me saying someone was directly involved requires a pretty high standard of proof, one I do not feel has been met.

[ROH]

173. The Zogby question...

Do you think that some of the US leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act"?

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

[Frederik]

174. Fair enough

The biggest cause of contention is of course the so-called physical evidence (even though it strictly speaking isn't physical, but consists of photos and video clips and eyewitness reports), which doesn't concern whodunnit as much as what actually happened during those couple of hours. I usually stay out of these debates because I'm not an engineer or fireman or phycisist or aviation expert, but to me the collapse of the towers looks very suspicious. I can't prove that fire didn't cause it though, but I know many people who know more about the physical circumstances that would be needed to produce such collapses say that it's impossible. It's certainly conspicuous that not only did both towers collapse in identical fashion, but WTC7, which hadn't been hit by any plane, did as well!

The debate over what hit the Pentagon is perhaps the most contentious one of all. I'm convinced it was a plane, as engine parts, wheels etc were found and photographed. But a 757? I don't know. You would expect pieces of the fuselage of such a large plane to have survived the explosion, it's a little strange that the plane was allegedly "pulverized" in the explosion, which explains why no big parts of the fuselage etc were seen at the site, yet the DNA of all the passengers save a toddler was allegedly recovered!

The trajectory of the plane was very strange - instead of simply diving into the Pentagon, which would have caused maximum damage and been by far the easiest, the plane first flew over the Pentagon and then commenced a spiral descent, zeroing in on the wedge of the Pentagon which was nearly empty because it had been reinforced recently, flying horizontally at 500 mph 30 feet above the ground before it slammed into the Pentagon - at the opposite side of where the big brass and Rumsfeld have their offices, causing minimal destruction and loss of life compared to any other way of crashing into the building...

These spectacular manoeuvres were allegedly performed by Hani Hanjour, who according to his flight school instructor couldn't fly a one-engine Cessna the month before.

None of the "physical" evidence constitutes a bona fide smoking gun perhaps, but wouldn't you excuse people for smelling a rat?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

137. The 15 minute delay from the impact on the first tower until the impact...

...on the second tower ensured that every camera of every major network to be focused on the disaster at the WTC on a perfectly clear day.

Coincidence? I don't think so.

[Ms. Clio]

141. I heard a journalist or anchor say almost exactly the same thing that day

But his take on it was that it was just more evidence of Osama's fiendish cunning.

[mopaul]

144. in morning prime time

it was perfectly exectued for maximum psychological effect

[billymc2]

142. Nice graghic

--

[Swamp Rat]

145. For my 10,000th post, I dedicate this pic to mopaul and this thread.

I registered at DU a year ago after reading a mopaul thread where he could not shut the fuck up. I decided that I was sick of lurking and wanted to say something. Now, I cannot shut the fuck up either... :D

This pic was made for this thread:

[mopaul]

147. Made It Happen On Purpose

nice image. think i'll put that one in the living room by the cadenza.

[Frederik]

159. Your illustration , as usual

is priceless!

[Al-CIAda]

148. .

[peekaloo]

151. I still remember Tom Daschle stating both President Cheney and

Bu$h called to try and dissuade him from "digging too deep" into this "national tragedy".

[mopaul]

155. i wonder why?

first they threaten to kill him and other dems with anthrax, then they tell them to shut up about 9-11.

things that make you go hhhhmmmmmm

[Frederik]

157. And then he got an anthrax letter

Made in the U.S.A.!

[Al-CIAda]

165. Why did the White House go on Cipro Beginning September 11th?

Why did the White House go on Cipro Beginning September 11th?
Were they psychic, or did they know?


Nearly a month before the first reported outbreak, White House officials start taking the powerful antibiotic Cipro to treat anthrax. By the end of the year it will be known that the Ames strain of anthrax used in the attacks against Sens. Leahy and Daschle was produced by CIA programs coordinated through Fort Detrick, the Batelle Memorial Institute and the Dugway Proving Ground.

FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUED OVER ANTHRAX DOCUMENTS

Judicial Watch Wants to Know Why White House Went on Cipro Beginning September 11th

What Was Known and When?
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that it has filed lawsuits against the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), the Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”), the Center for Disease Control (“CDC”), the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (“USAMRIID”) and the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) for those agencies’ failures to produce documents concerning the terrorist anthrax attacks of October 2001, under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”).

http://www.judicialwatch.org/1967.shtml

-------------
Complete 911 Timeline: Anthrax attacks and microbiologists
Project: Complete 911 Timeline
Open-Content project managed by Paul Thompson

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&theme=anthrax

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

185. Right before the vote for the Patriot Act. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

156. Eliot Spitzer, NY's AG is sitting with tomes of circumstantial evidence

to open an investigation into 9/11. Here is the link to contact him. Let him know you want him to persue this investigation!
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/online_forms/email_ag.jsp

[Frederik]

160. He's running for governor

He's got other priorities.

[Al-CIAda]

161. Yes, very disappointing. He's got reams of info on this he's sitting on.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

183. The Zogby poll taken just before the GOP Convention had a majority

of NYers wanting him to investigate 9/11. This actually might help his run for governor.

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals

[Frederik]

187. That's a good point

It helped his popularity that he went after Enron and the other corporate criminals, after all, even though it was unpopular with the criminals in the White House.

If he would have the guts to do this I would move to New York just to vote for him.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

190. Luckily I won't have to move in order to vote for him, and thank

you for considering it!

[JohnyCanuck]

164. New Griffin article: The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie

The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie
by Dr. David Ray Griffin
9/11 Visibility Project
Sunday, May 22, 2005
Link to Original

In discussing my second 9/11 book, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions, I have often said, only half in jest, that a better title might have been “a 571-page lie.” (Actually, I was saying “a 567-page lie,” because I was forgetting to count the four pages of the Preface.) In making this statement, one of my points has been that the entire Report is constructed in support of one big lie: that the official story about 9/11 is true.

Another point, however, is that in the process of telling this overall lie, The 9/11 Commission Report tells many lies about particular issues. This point is implied by my critique’s subtitle, “Omissions and Distortions.” It might be thought, to be sure, that of the two types of problems signaled by those two terms, only those designated “distortions” can be considered lies.

It is better, however, to understand the two terms as referring to two types of lies: implicit and explicit. We have an explicit lie when the Report claims that the core of each of the Twin Towers consisted of a hollow steel shaft or when it claims that Vice President Cheney did not give the shoot-down order until after 10:10 that morning. But we have an implicit lie when the Commission, in its discussion of the 19 alleged suicide hijackers, omits the fact that at least six of them have credibly been reported to be still alive, or when it fails to mention the fact that Building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed. Such omissions are implicit lies partly because they show that the Commission did not honor its stated intention “to provide the fullest possible account of the events surrounding 9/11.” They are also lies insofar as the Commission could avoid telling an explicit lie about the issue in question only by not mentioning it, which, I believe, was the case in at least most instances.

Given these two types of lies, it might be wondered how many lies are contained in The 9/11 Commission Report. I do not know. But, deciding to see how many lies I had discussed in my book, I found that I had identified over 100 of them. Once I had made the list, it occurred to me that others might find this summary helpful. Hence this article.

http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2005-05-22-571pglie.php