Suprisingly good analysis of Newsweek story by Andrew Sullivan

[wicket]

Sullivan cuts through the BS:

http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2005_05_15_dish_archive.html#111625651809819682

We have yet to see what's at the root, if anything, of the Newsweek story. But I think it's telling that some bloggers have devoted much, much more energy to covering the Newsweek error than they ever have to covering any sliver of the widespread evidence of detainee abuse that made the Newsweek piece credible in the first place. A simple question: after U.S. interrogators have tortured over two dozen detainees to death, after they have wrapped one in an Israeli flag, after they have smeared naked detainees with fake menstrual blood, after they have told one detainee to "Fuck Allah," after they have ordered detainees to pray to Allah in order to kick them from behind in the head, is it completely beyond credibility that they would also have desecrated the Koran? Yes, Newsweek bears complete responsibility for any errors it has made; and, depending on what we now find, should not be let off the hook. But the outrage from the White House is beyond belief. It seems to me particularly worrying if this incident further intimidates the press from seeking the truth about what the government is doing in the war on terror. It is not being "basically, on the side of the enemy," as Glenn Reynolds calls it, to resist the notion of government-sanctioned torture and to report on it. It is patriotism and serving the cause that this war is about: religious pluralism and tolerance. The media's Abu Ghraib?? When Mike Isikoff is found guilty of committing murder, give me a call. Austin Bay still insists that Abu Ghraib did not constitute "deadly torture." The corpses found there (photographed by grinning U.S. soldiers) would probably disagree. (Will Bay correct?) Three factors interacted here: media error/bias, Islamist paranoia, and a past and possibly current policy of religiously-intolerant torture. No one comes out looking good. But it seems to me unquestionable that the documented abuse of religion in interrogation practices is by far the biggest scandal. Too bad the blogosphere is too media-obsessed and self-congratulatory to notice.

[Lerkfish]

1. exactly. Why is the newsweek end of this more important the the actual

crimes committed?
Why are we being distracted, intentionally, by the WH?
what is going on right now that we aren't supposed to notice?

[wicket]

2. Hmmmm....

Think maybe they are trying to distract from the Downing Street Memo?

http://googlebombproject.blogspot.com/2005/05/googlebomb-rycroft-memo-aka-downing.html

[FreedomAngel82]

3. That's what I want to know

I just think it's so strange. The story is a big deal but it's not HUGE or anything. :shrug:

[MuseRider]

5. At this point

I am willing to take whatever it is that puts their feet to the fire. Whatever. It does seem strange that this would be it but maybe it is the combination that is bringing some to really think? Don't know. Somehow, sometime people are going to have their WTF moment, whatever it takes.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. They will still be arguing this after the US gets it's ass kicked

out of the middle east. I have been hearing stories about all the devious shit they have been doing to those people locked up in gitmo for years now. My guess is that whatever we have heard, it's probably 10x worse in reality.

[understandinglife]

6. Good to see that Sullivan is not distracted. Neither are many of us.

My retort, in several communications I have now sent, regarding the "White House demands retraction on Newsweek article" has been to state that rather than Newsweek apologizing it should demand that BU$H meet with the Press and respond to the contents of the 23 July 2002 British memo.

Stop taking their bait and stop allowing anyone other than BU$H to respond. Demand access to BU$H.

Highlight the fact, daily, in newspapers and TV that BU$H is not available to answer numerous critical questions -- from 9/11, to the illegal war he is waging in Iraq, to just what was he doing while folk were running down the steps of the US Capitol in last weeks episode of "Terror Theater."

Demand that Bu$h answer questions about torture, in all it forms, that his administration has authorized.

Laser focus the light on BU$H. Because:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x369548

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[wicket]

11. Their control over the media is frightening

n/t

[fooj]

15. Way to lead, UL!

Enough of this BS, already! These bastards will suck the life right out of us all if we let them!

Peace.

[MsTryska]

7. I think Andrew's turning.....

we're here for ya babe - and we may even forgive you your past indiscretions. ;)

[Hamlette]

8. what the hell happened to Andrew Sullivan?

He used to be the poster child for right wing gays. Starting with the gay marriage amendment talk, I found that I not only agreed with him (on that issue) but admired him for coming out swinging (on that issue.)

I think Abu Ghraib put him over the edge.

Last week on Bill Maher I agreed with everything he said.

Now he's standing up for freedom of the press????? (Yes, in the context of Abu Ghraib, but still.)

Will he be our Horowitz or is this just a blip in his conscience?

[wicket]

9. And, he voted for Kerry too!

:kick:

[Cha]

13. I never thought I'd see that

happen. I use to watch tv during the 2000 leadup and beyond to 2002(when I quit!) and Andrew made me want to hurt him through the screen ..the way he dissed Gore!

[wicket]

17. the turning point for him seems to be Abu Ghraib

But he had been increasingly anti-Bush before that.

[Cha]

19. It's really encouraging when

someone so vehemently against the Democrats can pull a 180 degreer cause they got a few years of bushco shoved down all our throats!

[SharonRB]

16. I was amazed at how much I agreed with him when he was on

Real Time. The last time he was on that wasn't the case.

[wicket]

10. kick

:kick:

[Cha]

12. Damn Straight!

Not without the realm of reason that they would "desecrate the Koran" after they had done everything else but.

I didn't read the original newsweak story so I don't know what they retracted or why.

[Tinoire]

14. Recommended n/t

[wicket]

18. thanks!

:)

[kimchi]

20. Finally, a voice of sanity.

I've been peeved all day about this. It truly boggles the brain to know that the kool-aid drinkers are outraged over a news magazine reporting a story--of an interrogation techniqe less painful than the torture already proven by photo. Both the ideas that rioting is the correct action, and that a newspaper is responsible for the actions of soldiers AND rioters --are equally laughable. Is logic even taught anymore?

I suppose it gets overrun by the defensive reaction of false patriotism. Mindless following of an evil leader. Maybe this just proves to me that we are farther down the fascist path than I thought. Mindless followers enabled the Nazis to kill my ancestors, and more recently the brainless enabled Bush to kill my nephew.

I've been useless these past few month--depressed and defeated. Only in the last few weeks have I slowly rejoined DU in order to be aware of the world again. I know myself it is easier to just hide, and painful to be aware--because then you have no excuse not to fight.

Today, I hated people. If their ignorance were not hurting America I might feel sorry for them--life must suck when you have your head up your ass.

[Roland99]

21. It's Rather-Gate all over again. Wouldn't be suprised if it was a setup.

[obliocactus]

22. Sullivan at least tends to think for himself

Andrew Sullivan can drive me mad when I think, How is he so stupid not to see the obvious!!? At the same time, he posts provocative comments on his blog, and occasionally shines through with real perception.

I check into the Daily Dish regularly, and am glad I do. He can still make me go mental, but when he hits a target, he hits it hard.

However crazy he sometimes makes me, he's still one of the good guys.

[wicket]

23. Welcome to DU!!!!

:hi: