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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:04 PM
Original message
Vicente Fox: Mexicans take jobs "that not even blacks want to do."
:crazy:


MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexican President Vicente Fox called recent U.S. measures to stem illegal immigration a step back for bilateral relations on Friday and said Mexican migrants do jobs "that not even blacks want to do."

In comments likely to raise the temperature of the immigration debate, Fox defended the role of undocumented Mexican workers in the United States to a group of Texas business people meeting in Mexico.

"There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States," he said in a speech broadcast in part on local radio and reported on newspaper web sites.

Fox said recent, tougher measures against immigrants do not represent "the road we should be building between friends and partners."











http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&s...
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Easy for you to say.....
Like the other cronies you are also profitting from slave labor and wages....
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well, maybe if you didn't ship your poor workers north...
you would be able to fix your own country. Or HAVE to.

And if the cheap labor wasn't flowing north, maybe people would have to pay what the job was really worth instead of encouraging illegals.
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. If I were Fox I would be embarressed to admit that people had to leave my
country to get a job.
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ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let me tell you something Mr. Vicente Fux
Edited on Sat May-14-05 08:00 PM by ConfuZed
Blacks did the jobs that immigrants are now doing its just that they were forced out because they are and were not going to accept the below mininum wages YOUR immigrants are paid and they only reason they accept those wages is because they constantly threatened with deportation back to your corrupted country.

I really hope that pompous assface gets kicked out next mexican election.

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Fountain79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
30. Fox is corruption light....
Unfortunately Fox is a lesser of two evils as far as Mexican politics is concerned. The PRI are nothing short of a criminal organization and treat their citizens as complete and total idiots. I lived in Mexico during the equivalent of an off year election for us. The PRI advertisements were absolutely insulting to anyone's intelligence.

As a person with family in Mexico and ties in Mexico, it pains me...no it ANGERS me that the corruption of that country cripples it. Most Mexicans in Mexico I have talked to see illegal immigrants in this country as people doing the jobs no one else wants to do. This isn't simply the attitude of a President but an attitude of an entire nation.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
41. 
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hey Fox, nice job denigrating two entire races of people.
I actually thought you were a smart guy at one time.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Precisely. nt
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Tomee450 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. His remarks were insulting
and he is dead wrong. All over this country blacks used to work as maids, landscapers, laundry workers. They did a lot of the menial work that is now being given to immigrants. It is absolutely untrue that African Americans do not want those jobs. Even in construction, blacks now have to compete with immigrants and in many cases are no longer being hired. My friend who lives in Georgia, said on the construction sites he sees fewer African Americans. There is a growing concern about immigration and the plan of the Bush administration to allow more immigrants to come in. I have such mixed feeling about this. I know that it must be hard not to have enough money to support one's family and that's why some immigrants risk their lives to come here. On the other hand, it concerns me that immigrants are forcing blacks and poor whites out of certain jobs. They cannot live off the low wages that certain immigrants are willing to accept.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Corporatism= Fascism
The Amerikan Corps., Agri-Biz, Construction, other small businesses and families hire illegal immigrqant workers, paying them below min. wage and zero benefits yet that is more that they could earn in their own countries, so they keep arriving. If the laws that were on the books were enforced and fair wages were demanded, perhaps not so many would arrive to seek work. If Mexico provided more jobs and stopped forcing their people off of their lands, perhaps that would help, also.

I feel that the RW, esp. the Bush Junta is attempting to destroy the American Middle Class and force Americans into serfdoom.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. When I lived in E lPaso I was always suprised at the
prevelance of unabashed racism of many hispanics agianst black people. I guess I found it strange, coming from the land of lilly white that one group of what had always been a minority where I was from would be discriminatory against another minority. 'Course in El Paso I was the minority.

I was under the impression that VF was a little smarter than *. Guess I should rethink that position.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Racism makes everyone "dumb." n/t
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Vincente the FOX should employ his OWN citizens in his OWN
country instead of taking US dollars and NOT spending it on Mexico's infrastructure and people. He is a racist and he's a corporate pig just like Bush.

FOX aka Zorro, is just that--a sly fox--and we should NOT believe one damn thing he says. He has his own agenda. Not even his poor citizens like him NOR their government down there.

One of our many Mexican (illegal) friends spits when he talks about the unfairness of their government. Even HE says Fox takes US money but doesn't spend it on the general population. Our friend told us of his brother who owned a small farm/ranch. They guy farmed fruit trees. In comes "free trade" crap and this guys farm is all of a sudden too small to compete with bigger fruit corps that have taken up residence in Mexico. My friend smuggled his brother out of Mexico where the man is working in another relative's restaurant here.

My friends girlfriend was smuggled out of Mexico and went to Georgia to work along side an "Uncle" in the house cleaning business. She worked in other states then settled in my town (Calif) for a while. She got lonely for her children and went back to southern Mexico. She hasn't been back for several months; don't know whether that's due to she can't get out or doesn't want to come back...

My grandson's father is an illegal from Mexico. We don't know where he is. He worked in the trades for awhile then we heard rumors that he was in Arizona..but who knows.

I learned there is a huge classism thing going on in Mexico also. The light skinned, blue eyed Mexicans look "down" upon their dark skinned, more ethnic looking fellow citizens.

So, SCREW Vincente, his cape, his mask, and the horse he rode in on. He should just STFU.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Not just Mexico, but everywhere
"I learned there is a huge classism thing going on in Mexico also. The light skinned, blue eyed Mexicans look "down" upon their dark skinned, more ethnic looking fellow citizens."

Every former Spanish colony has this. Those of Spanish descent are looked up to and they look down on the mixed race or indigenous people.

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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yes, even here in New Mexico
Edited on Sat May-14-05 09:47 PM by jaredh
the migrant workers that come tend to have very little Spanish blood in them while the older more established Hispanics tend to be about 50% white/50% Indian (very few Hispanics here are 100% white) and there is definitely a racism against the darker migrant workers.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. A Mexican woman who is fairly dark skinned
was talking to me about this just on Thursday. Her grandmother was fair skinned and blue eyed and lorded it over her own family members. The woman who was telling me this didn't seem traumatized by it, but rather matter of fact about it, just relating a story about her grandmother in an affectionate way. Most Mexican families are so mixed racially that, oddly, even though it is definitely racist and elitist, there isn't quite the animosity we might expect looking through the lens of our own society. It's a complicated culture. What strikes me always is the dignity and courtesy of any Mexican on any level of society.
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Celeborn Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Yep,
Mexican Americans are some of the nicest, most polite people I know.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Yes they do, unfortunately....
Classism and racism isn't just rooted in Amereeeeeca. I guess we've not come so far, as we think, from the caves/clanism yet eh?

I just learned that my Mexican friend I spoke of is going back. He claims he can't handle all the changes and the stress here in the ole' US. He made some money so he can live a bit better. He hopes to open a little shop down there someplace...his relatives still own a homestead.

With tongue in cheek (maybe with more truth than not), we suggested that he get his thing together and WE will go join Him. :) Not much difference between the countries when it comes to classism anyway. We are not appreciated as the working poor, the underclass here..sooooo we shall see.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. It's a wonderful place to live
I can tell you ;)
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. My sister and an old "flame" of mine loves it there too...
I've never been. My sister and her chums used to go down in an old beat up van where they tramped around the country side doing whatever.

She loved the whole laid back environment. My other friend went down that year when we had the comet showers?...In a sail boat with others. He was in hog heaven; on the sea at night with those celestial showers. Then going ashore in Mexico to the most colorful, friendly and fun place he'd ever been. He swears he wants to retire there...SOON. :)
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jmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ghee how comforting,
I don't live in the only nation with a jerk for a leader. Maybe Bush and Fox can form a hall of shame.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Jeebus, what a racist!
:grr:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why am I not surprised he said this.
:-(
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
15. oh, yeah, his peeps must be REAL proud of that
comparison
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. Interesting, but not racist.
I don't think he made a racist comment, unless one is saying the racism was directed at his own people, which is possible. Nothing in his comment suggested Mexicans were better than Blacks, but rather take jobs they would not do, without specifying why. Had he said, Mexicans are willing to do jobs that Blacks will not because they (Mexicans) are not lazy," then that would be a racist comment. What he said is true, to some extent. Mexicans coming into the US will take jobs that Americans won't, and it usually because of wages. Illegals and even legal immigrants are abused by many in the US, especially undocumented workers.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. Apologize much?
:crazy:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Nope.
I just don't think it was racist toward blacks, but toward Meicans.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. And the "difference" would be???
:freak: :shrug: :freak:
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. The difference
Edited on Sun May-15-05 05:59 PM by Behind the Aegis
He didn't say or imply that Mexicans were better than Blacks. However, it could be said he was being racist toward his own people by implying they only do "undesirable" labor. His comments were not productive. I would say they border on uneducated and bigoted.

On edit: What makes you feel his comments were racist? Do you feel the racism was directed at Blacks, his own people, or both?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. His comment reveals a DISDAIN
for his constituents, "ethnicity" notwithstanding. His minset shines through, loud and clear. It was a racist, classist remark that no true statesman or diplomat would ever conceive of uttering, EVEN :evilgrin: while drunk.

KEIN RESPEKT.

Friday, a CDU Minister (think Texas) popped a champagne cork over a homeless man's head in Bremen. KEIN RESPEKT. The politician is now UNEMPLOYED, weil hier gibt's eine Strafe dafr. Would that Vicente meet the same fate. Would that there were a leader in Mexico who could even BEGIN to unravel the generations of corruption.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. I will give you that.
There was disdain, mainly toward his own people. It was also very classist, with that I wholly agree with you! However, i still maintain it is not racist, as I understand and use the definition. It tends more to bigotry. I also agree that it was in very poor taste and unbecoming.

My German is HORRIBLE! I had to use the Dictionary.com translator. However, what is "gibt's" as it didn't translate. Danke!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Shorthand for "es gibt"
There is...

What's with your equivocation on recognizing the inherent racism in the remark? :shrug: "EVEN blacks..." the adjective is the giveaway. What's not to get? :shrug:
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. you expected better from a rich white guy who happens to be mexican?
fox's comments reveal that class struggle has no international boundaries. while his remarks differentiated by skin color, he really insinuated upon the workings of the class structure of western capitalsm.

which i think is just as bad in affect as racism, since his remarks in essence accepted as normal the class differences that sets the underclasses of latino and black against each other as the rich look on in amusement.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
44. 
Cara de picha!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. un asshole llameante real
.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. No wonder Fox & Bush get along
They are two of the most ignorant people I know. "not even blacks want to do..." Words escape me. . . .
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Unbelieveable
Fox's only interest is to dump his unemployed into the US.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. That's a really stunning quote.
I almost wish bush would have said it.

is that bad?
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Bush in Brazil
Didn't Bush make the comment to the Pres. of Brazil something to the effect he had no idea Brazil and so many blacks?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yes! You're right. I had forgotten.
Edited on Sat May-14-05 11:34 PM by Skip Intro
Something about bush asking if Brazil had as many blacks as the US, and CONDI had to aplogize for him (and then inform the leader of the free world that Brazil probably had the largest black population in South Amercia).

Condi.

Talk about true colors.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Or in another perspective
Maybe Bush was the ventriloquist....
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. Why does he not come down to Harlem and say that, eh?
Fucker... He loves slavery, that we know!
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
29. Asshole grande
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. A real cacahead.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Not just a commodities broker pig, he sounds like a racist pig too.
Dignity? And he thinks * will give him dignity when he asks for it? Good luck. :eyes:
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
43. how i will NOT miss him if he gets elected out of office...
may the mayor of mexico city win, we need more sensible people in the world.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Fox can't be re-elected.
Edited on Mon May-16-05 06:25 AM by Bridget Burke
Porfirio Diaz was president from 1876 to 1911. In 1909, he hinted that he might step down; that led to the bloody Mexican Revolution that began in 1910. By 1920, at least a million Mexicans had died; many more fled North. Those preaching at Mexicans to "revolt" had better hope they don't get their wish if they find the current rate of immigration troubling.

Since 1920, Mexican presidents may only serve one term of six years. The PRI stayed in control & each president generally hand-picked his successor. In 1988, Cuauhtemoc Cardenas (son of the respected president who nationalized Mexico's oil) broke from PRI & ran to the left. There was a "computer breakdown" while votes were being counted & he lost. He formed the PRD; a party more to the left, although those categories are not quite the same as we perceive them up here. Later campaigns for the presidency were unsuccessful; Mexicans joked that, since he'd really been elected once, he was not eligible to win again.

Fox's election as a representative of PAN (a bit to the right--again, not exactly what we'd call "right") was the first non-PRI victory since 1920. He did attempt some reforms but his party has not prospered. Of course, Mexico's powerful neighbor to the North--especially under Bush--would prefer that democracy & social justice not get out of hand.

The next election promises to be interesting--for those who pay attention to what's going on in Mexico, that is.


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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
47. No wonder he gets along so well with Bush**
Birds of a feather, you know (well obviously not crows or ravens :-) )
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ConfuZed Donating Member (856 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-16-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. Update:

Story URL: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2005... /

Mexican President not sorry for slur

President Vicente Fox refused to apologize Monday for saying Mexicans in the United States do the work that blacks won't.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City had raised the issue with the Mexican government. That's a very insensitive and inappropriate way to phrase this and we would hope that (the Mexicans) would clarify the remarks if they have a chance, Mr. Boucher said.

Mr. Fox's spokesman, Ruben Aguilar, said the remark has been misinterpreted as a racial slur. He said the president was speaking in defence of Mexican migrants as they come under attack by the new U.S. immigration measures that include a wall along the U.S.-California border.

Stung by the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigrants, many Mexicans including Mexico City's archbishop said Mr. Fox was just stating a fact.


The President was just telling the truth, said Celedonio Gonzalez, a 35-year-old carpenter who worked illegally in Dallas for six months in 2001. Mexicans go to the United States because they have to. Blacks want to earn better wages, and the Mexican because he is illegal takes what they pay him.

But the Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton, two black U.S. civil rights activists, said Mr. Fox should apologize. His statement had the impact of being inciting and divisive, Mr. Jackson said.

Lisa Catanzarite, a sociologist at Washington State University, disputed Mr. Fox's assertion. She said there is intense competition for lucrative working class jobs like construction and that employers usually prefer to hire immigrants who don't know their rights.

What Vicente Fox called a willingness to work ... translates into extreme exploitability, she said...
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