Is the Iraq war a success?

[Goldmund]

Poll question: Is the Iraq war a success?

I'm finishing up an article I started a while ago and was wondering about your thoughts.

Let's define success as the level of similarity of reality with the intended results, or intended developments (since the war is obviously still going on).

"Intended" by those who created it, of course.

So therefore, it's a two-part question: one, of the Neocons' intent, and two, of the reality of the situation.

[Tempest]

1. Yes, it's a success

A "catastrophic success"*


*actual quote from the dimbulb Bush himself.

[dkofos]

2. My thoughts exactly

[Goldmund]

3. I think we are being suckered into thinking it's a failure.

I also think that's why they chose Dumbass to be their face. Because this guy seems so inept that anything that we don't like that goes on we chalk up to his incompetence.

But I don't think he's pulling any important strings there, and I don't at all think they are incompetent.

[LynnTheDem]

4. YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!! --Usama bin Laden.

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--Every known terrorist organization worldwide

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--Halliburton & subsidiaries

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--bush's warprofiteering pals

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--Cheney, owner of stock in Halliburton

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--China

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--bush & Cartel, profiting from the warprofiteering of their pals

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--BodyBags R Us

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--USA Funeral Directors Assoc.

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--Defense Industry

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--Tiawan (outsource producers of US ammo)

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--All of America's enemies who are ecstatic to see the US Iraqmired

YES!!! A RESOUNDING SUCCESS!!!
--rightwingnut bushbot morans.

*****

No; one of America's greatest tragedies.
--Everyone and anyone who has any morality, empathy, human kindness, common sense, respect for the rule of law, respect for humanity and the world.

No; one of America's greatest tragedies.
--Family members and loved ones, who know and accept the truth, of those who now lie dead or maimed for life.

No; one of America's greatest tragedies.
--The dead, who knew the truth.

[Goldmund]

5. So "yes" is what you're saying

since the premise was

"Let's define success as the level of similarity of reality with the intended results" -- and in your list, those who engineered the war are saying "YES".

[LynnTheDem]

8. Not all. Several of the neocon bastards are quite unhappy.

The ones profiting in their wallets are happy. Terrorists and especially UBL are of course deleriously happy.

bush & his nasty little Cartel are happy because they are either enriching their wallets personally, paying back & keeping their "haves and have mores" base happy, or both.

[Goldmund]

9. So they got what they wanted, right?

Therefore, a success.

[LynnTheDem]

10. For most, yes, imo. Some neocons really were into the "spreading

democracy" and for some reason thought the other warmongering criminal bastards were,t oo. So those neocons aren't happy and some even declare Iraq "a disaster".

But most got what they wanted...money, in one form or another.

[wuushew]

6. There is no such thing as global "national interests"

No nation has a right to another's mineral wealth. American citizens also should be fully aware of risks they take when they vacation or proselytize in other countries.

American law and American military power have no business extending themselves beyond the borders of this country. We choose to act poorly because using authoritarian force on other people who have no voice in our political system is easier then dealing with hardship or tough domestic choices of being an humble thoughtful nation.

[Goldmund]

7. of courrse

But I'm not talking anything that has anything to do with morality or fairness. I am trying to look at it from a removed perspective. Just tangibilites, no qualitative judgements.

[Goldmund]

11. .

[K-W]

12. Its too early to tell, it could go either way.

As much as I would like to think that Bush cant succeed in producing a semi stable client state, I know he can its just a matter of being able to kill enough people to do so without losing support.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. I think they're failing

Why? Well not long ago Bush had the Saudi Prince here and obviously begging for his help with oil. That shows me he isn't getting what he wants.

[Goldmund]

14. My friend

don't think for a second you know what Bush and Abdullah were talking about as they were prancing and romancing around.

[Goldmund]

15. .

[VOX]

16. No spin on Earth can turn "mess" into "success." n/t

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

17. Timescale, please.

I think this is a multi-century strategy in the minds of the neocons. It's very hard to measure "success" if this is how they are thinking. They have succeeded in establishing "permanent" bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thence, the empire. They don't expect to see it accomplished in their lifetimes.

[welshTerrier2]

18. sorry ... have to vote for "Other"

i've written this before but it explains my view on what's happening in Iraq ... 2 out of 3 of bush's "pegs" have been implemented ...

until the 3 "pegs" are put in place, the "war" will continue ... peg 1 was putting Chalabi in control of the oil ... peg 2 was getting Wolfowitz installed to head the International Monetary Fund (IMF) ... the problem, however, is peg 3 ... Prime Minister Jafaari is NOT the guy bush wanted ... i think the current strategy is to further bankrupt Iraq ... they have no intention of rebuilding the infrastructure until they get more control over the Iraqi government ...

They will try to do this either by helping one of their hand-picked puppets rise to power or by forcing Jafaari's hand by causing severe shortages of food, water and utilities (or by helping Jafaari get assassinated by "an insurgent") ... the way the game works is that Iraq will be forced deeper and deeper into debt and eventually will be forced to borrow heavily from the IMF ... when they are unable to repay their loans, the US will step in to "help them" if certain conditions are met ... you might want to think of it as a form of international blackmail ... and who benefits from making Iraq play ball? the answer is certain bush-friendly corporations ...

the "Iraq isn't secure enough to start rebuilding" argument is a smoke-screen ... the reconstruction money is not being spent because bush wants to prolong the instability until he gets greater control ... if things are so insecure, why is the US spending so much money building the world's largest embassy in Baghdad and building so many permanent military bases?? ... it's interesting bush is able to secure the things he chooses to secure ...

[bridgit]

19. sure, if your portfolio is brimming...

with defense & contracted security company stocks :shrug:

[Darranar]

20. They are failing. It is taking too long, taking too much resources...

Meanwhile, problems (from their perspective, not mine) develop in Latin America, and you can quite clearly tell they would love to invade Syria or Iran.