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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:32 PM
Original message
About the Andy Stephenson situation
Edited on Tue May-10-05 12:37 PM by Skinner
Many of you have been following the posts about Andy Stephenson's surgery for pancreatic cancer, and a large number of you have been generous enough to donate to the cause. I am touched by how big-hearted this community is when it comes to our attention that one of our own is in need. Earlier today someone claimed that the entire thing was a hoax to scam our members out of their money.

Allow me to be clear: I have my own opinion about whether this is legit or a hoax, but it is only that: an opinion. I do not know the truth. It has long been the policy of Democratic Underground not to vouch for anyone who uses this website in order to raise money, and we have not done so in this case. It is our preference to let our members weigh the evidence, and decide for themselves if they feel comfortable donating or not.

Our policy of not verifying anyone should not be interpreted as a statement about the legitimacy of any claim, including this one. Put yourself in our position. If we say "we think this is legit" then we might help someone in need, but we are personally responsible if it turns out to be a hoax. But if we say "we don't think this is legit" then we might protect people from being scammed, but there is a chance that a person in need goes without help. So, we're kinda stuck.

The problem is made worse by the fact that we all know that the potential for abuse is huge. A group of people just raised a huge amount of money -- twice as much money in two weekends than DU itself raises during any of its week-long quarterly fund-drives. And they didn't even have to provide any proof whatsoever. (Again, let me repeat: This is not a statement on the legitimacy of Andy Stephenson's situation. I'm just trying to be honest about the issues involved.)

Here's what we all know.

Some people have raised a large amount of money -- mostly from the members of Democratic Underground, but also from some other websites -- which they claim will be used to pay for surgery for Andy Stephenson at Johns Hopkins University Hospital. They say the surgery was supposed to be today, but it was postponed.

Earlier today, a DU member by the name of MrNiceGuyDied posted a few messages claiming that he had been in contact with a Dr. Cameron at Johns Hopkins University Hospital, who told him that this was a hoax.

Then, a DU member by the name of qanda started a thread claiming the same thing. The thread by qanda did not mention the posts by MrNiceGuyDied. In the thread, qanda gave the impression that qanda had called Dr. Cameron and was told that this was a hoax.

All hell broke loose. The moderators and I had to step in and lock all the threads.

qanda posted an apology in my thread which said this: "I apologize for starting the thread questioning the story about Andy. I am way too cynical, and should not have been so quick to believe someone who had no clue." So, qanda seems to be saying that their thread was based on the post by MrNiceGuyDied, but that is not clear.

Here's what you don't know.

MrNiceGuyDied is a troll. He was formerly banned from DU under half a dozen other usernames, all of which were heavily involved in stirring up trouble on the BBV issue. There is absolutely no reason to take any of his posts seriously.

qanda sent me a private message apologizing for the thread. After I sent her a rude response (I'm sorry, I was very angry), qanda said that they did in fact call Dr. Cameron. So that is the context of the thread.

Other people have sent me private messages vouching for Andy.

I did not want to share this piece of information, but in light of recent events, I think that DU members need to know that the administrators actually do care about what get posted here. Even though we don't vouch for people, we have been very concerned about the possibility for abuse.

When the goal for the fund drive suddenly changed from $25,000 to $50,000, we started to get concerned. Last week I called Johns Hopkins Hospital to try to verify that Andy Stephenson is actually getting surgery. Every person I talked to gave me the same answer: Federal privacy laws forbid them from disclosing the names of patients. I want to be clear: My actions are not a reflection on Andy or any other members of this website. I was hoping to quietly verify Andy's story myself, and nobody would be the wiser.

Yesterday, as part of my search, I was directed to an individual at Johns Hopkins with the job title of "patient representative". We have been playing phone tag since then, so we haven't talked yet. Given the previous responses, I am pretty doubtful that she can help us out.

Given that this has become an issue, I think we all need to do what we can to put all the concerns to rest

I think that Andy Stephenson obviously wants to set the record straight and clear his name. And I would like to put the concerns of the DU membership to rest. Here's what I propose.

Andy Stephenson and I need to talk this out on the telephone. He needs to somehow release Johns Hopkins Hospital from their privacy restrictions so they can talk to me directly and verify that the surgery is taking place, and verify that it does cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000.

Then, we will report back to you, and all these concerns will be put to rest. I will send Andy Stephenson a private message with our office phone number.

Thank you, everyone, for your understanding as we work our way through this.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for the update, I appreciate it.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. thanks
Seems fair to me.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. A very logical response.
And thanks for keeping us informed.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks
Sorry you have to go through all this
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for all you are doing on this, Skinner
It is very much appreciated.
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DemBeans Donating Member (669 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. a reasonable solution
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cruadin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the update, I hope this can be cleared up quickly.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you.
Gosh, I hope that everything works out.

I'm praying.

I understand why you've made your policy the way it is.

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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you Skinner
You are great at what you do!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Update from lala
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. And many thanks to Lalarawraw.
This is not funny at all.:-(
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
521. hang in there lala
Edited on Tue May-10-05 07:42 PM by ooglymoogly
the idiot trol that started this is rolling on the floor in what he thinks is glee but its nothing more than really smelly sh*t and the people that piled on with gossip and innuendo can join the trolls



























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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. Thanks Will
missed that thread before.

This whole uproar is just sad. :shrug:
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Will - that thread got locked, too. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #37
102. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #102
131. lala_rawraw
much love and support to you lala
:grouphug: hiley
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
45. THANK YOU!!!!
Who could be that vicious - spreading a false rumor?

Don't answer - we might get in trouble. I have an idea.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
85. Reposted in this thread #68 n/t
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sorry you have been put in this position.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. That's very reasonable
Thanks.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks, Skinner. You're doing the right thing.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thanks for the update, Skinner.
And I am sure Andy will do anything to clear his name in which idiots from the outside has wrecked.

Sigh!
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. you're handling a delicate situation well.
Sorry this blew up in your face unexpectedly. You must cringe when you log on first thing every morning, not knowing what fresh hell you're going to uncover.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks Skinner
for letting us know what is going on.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks, Skinner
Edited on Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM by ribofunk
What a nightmare for the admins. I am way too trusting on this kind of fundraising. But we don't have to look too far back in time to see examples of scams taking place.

:applause:
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. FWIW, I called the hospital and got transferred to legal
I gave my name and office phone number to the admin. I did NOT tell the admin what I was calling about. I received a call back 1/2 an hour later. I did not write the woman's name down. Once again, I did NOT tell this woman why I was calling, mostly because I didn't have time. She said that she could not release any information on anyone who was, or was not, a patient. She also told me, "If I were you I would not believe most of what is on the Internet,". I asked her what she meant by that and she wouldn't elaborate.

I'm not sure what I am supposed to, or not supposed to, draw from that comment. The woman who called me back sounded sort of exasperated but hung up before I could ask anything else. She knew exactly who I was calling about and why I was calling when I hadn't given any info to her admin, so I'm thinking that she's been getting a lot of calls about this.

I am concerned for everyone involved in this situation, even the people who will flame me out for writing this. I hope that everything is on the up and up and is demonstrated quickly without a doubt. If this isn't the case, if proof is slow in coming or doesn't come at all, I hope we can all remember that we are all on the same side. I hope that DU pulls together through this time of stress, whatever has happened with and whatever will happen to Andy.

I'm mostly just crossing my fingers at this point.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Hopefully no one will flame you, M B
Edited on Tue May-10-05 12:43 PM by arnheim
What the woman said could be interpreted two ways:

1. Don't believe Andy
2. Don't believe the other person.

You are simply reporting what you did and heard.

What a mess. I hope this goes away soon.

On edit: "I hope this is resolved soon" is what I meant to say. :)
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
81. Or, she was just exasperated, if thousands of people have been
calling JH for similar inquires.

As an aside, I think that we should welcome JH insistence on patients' privacy. We, of all people.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #81
95. Darn skippy. I don't want anyone calling about my personal business
My personal business is just that - personal. Darn it.
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #95
123. I don't think that applies in this case
The soliciting of donations is an extremely public business.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #123
258. Yes, you have a point there
I could never do this online because I am such a private person that I couldn't bear to give up my anonymity.
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #81
114. This was just about when the thread was posted
I have been on conference calls all morning, and I saw the thread as it came up, which was right about the time my 1st call ended, so I took a moment and called. I guess this was around 11 AM EST. The thread only had about five to ten posts in it. So if anyone was calling, it may not have been DUers.
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shrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #114
196. Thank you for calling, actually
You're a longtime poster and one with a fairly solid reputation, so I'd have been interested in what you'd learned, if anything.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:05 PM
Original message
and that former DISRUPTER was intent on getting us to CALL
that is called a "DENIAL of SERVICE" attack and is what set my alarms off right away... then there is the whole BEV connection :puke:

peace
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:47 PM
Original message
As your experience shows,
I think it's really important that we all NOT call the hospital. A bazillion calls will only piss them off.

And kudos to Skinner for a calm and rational approach.
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Blue Diadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
56. I think the hospital is already upset that the calls have come in
It was posted in a separate thread that is now deleted. Hopefully she'll post it in this thread.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
445. I really hate to say this, given my very strong
belief in universal health care and my fury at the fact that millions of Americans lack access to decent health care due to lack of money or insurance and that people are dying or suffering because of it, (or declaring bankruptcy due to overwhelming medical bills, etc.), and my equally strong belief that NO ONE should EVER be denied care if they don't have the money, or be destroyed financially due to an illness, but I've had my strong doubts from the beginning of this whole fundraising situation.

Flame me if you must, but there were simply far too many red flags for me to be at all comfortable with it. I'm not sure I believe any of it anymore, and I think a few people have taken advantage of the tremendous generosity and caring of DUers. Sometimes I think we libs can be a bit too naive and trusting than is good for us in many situations.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #445
450. ?????!
Are you saying you think this is a scam?
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #450
455. Let's just say I have some very
strong suspicions about it. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to issue a very heartfelt apology.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #455
458. Well get ready
because many people here know Andy very well, and many of us have met him personally at conferences, or worked with him in one way or another.

This whole hullaballoo was started by a known troll with a low post count who has been banned again.

If you take that troll's word over the words of dozens of people on this thread who know and love Andy, then I feel kinda sorry for you. :shrug:
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #445
522. didn't you raise money on DU before?
" Mr. Kettle, Mrs. Pot is on line 3, saying something about being black."
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Donkeyboy75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #445
577. Ah, you're right.
The money would be much better spent on a hump fund.
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. I will never understand what trolls get out of being disruptive...
especially in something that could be a matter of life and death - literally.

Thank you for the update.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you!
Now, let's start sending our positive energy to Andy, again. He needs it.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. you're getting very good at this skinner
damned good.

very smart with this.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Original message
Thanks, Skinner
You seem to be handling this appropriately.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks, Skinner. I hope that this is resolved quickly
I do want to add that this has been very distressing to many including myself. I put up a plea on my personal website and sent emails to countless folks asking for help - all from my personal email address, not the arnheim address. I wanted the receiving folks to know that this was real and that I was sincere in my request for help.

To have this come up is unbearable.

I think that many of us got this nasty feeling in the pits of our stomachs earlier - not because we doubt Andy but because we know the hornets' nest that we have suddenly walked in to.

Please just keep us updated.

Thanks for your patience and level head.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. What about the billing office that was referred to by
some DUers as being very cooperative? Just a thought.
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Krupskaya Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. As a longtime lurker with a low post count...
...I think you're going about this in the best way possible. It's a hard job to do, but it's obvious you're doing the best you can.
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Floogeldy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. Good solution!
It should be no problem for Andy to give you a short, written medical authorization that will permit Johns Hopkins to verify some facts for you.

Thanks, Skinner
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you Skinner for your integrity and efforts.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks for the news and the sleuthing Skinner
You have a hard job, but you do it well.

Here's hoping it all works out in the end ... but no matter what happens, they can't take away the feeling I had from doing something that was to help someone else. Nor can they take that away from DU. We proved that we can pull together when the going gets tough.

That is worth the money I donated and then some.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Unfortunately, some who have donated may now be having 2nd thoughts
That is going to hurt in the long run.

I feel so sick about all of this. I can't imagine how Andy feels. I can't imagine how Skinner and the Admins feel, either, having to deal with this.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
30. i am confident it is legit, and i appreciate all you are doing
and i think it is grand so many were able to do what they did for the last two weeks. and i dont see any of this as a big deal. stuff happens. it is what we do with it after we are given the stuff
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DTinAZ Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. request
In the locked topic "IS THE ANDY STEPHENSON STORY A HOAX?," an URL and a telephone number are posted, and IMO, they should be removed, in that the primary DUer involved in the fund-raising has stated that Dr. Cameron is NOT Andy's doctor. I went to the Pancreatic section of their website, and there are multiple doctors listed there.

I tried sending an alert regarding the presence of the phone number, but I haven't received a response and the phone number is still there.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. When Andy's situation is confirmed,...
,...what happens to those who made unsubstantiated claims against him?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. someone who doesnt know andi, the situation and donated
asking if it is legit, isnt unsubstantiated claims. i think i have heard of only one poster, the one skinner speaks of, that might be doing harm. anyone else, has been a i hope this isnt. all i wanted to do was help someone

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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
70. "all i wanted to do was help someone"
As did we all. :) DU is a caring place full of wonderful and caring people.

:hug: to seabeyond.
:grouphug: to DU
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:01 PM
Original message
yes i am in a hand holding swirl myself n/t
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
99. Kind of makes you sick, right?
This, too, will pass. We will get through it. :)
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. You could commit national Election Fraud with a smaller group
of co-conspirators than Andy would need to pull a scam like this off.

This whole thing is absurd. And sad.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. I don't think Andy can release the hospital from the confidentiality
I'm pretty sure it's a blanket rule, and it takes a court order to get details. However, he will be issued a receipt for the surgery.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. you can sign releases to release your records or your information
to certain parties (doctors, etc.)... couldn't they draft a form that would release some information to Skinner?
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. yes he can
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Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. All it takes is the patient's approval.
The patient can still control that part. I actually read those papers, and crossed out several sections, saying I didn't agree. The hospital was pissed, but I had the final say on who could get information in my case.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
171. no if he is soliciting funds he must account for them
Anyone who is soliciting funds has to prove where the funds are being used and that the situation requiring the funds is really the true situation. That's how the feds took down David Duke.

I am confident that anyone receiving surgery has received many receipts and documents prior to that surgery, including a treatment plan with an estimate. Heck, you get that much from a dentist or vet these days.

No one -- no one -- is excused from the obligation to account for money that they have collected for a good cause no matter how good the cause. There can be no expectation of privacy where the patient has himself put his own personal information, including hospital and diagnosis, on several websites for purpose of collecting funds.

In my humble opinion, the time to provide proof was before the money was raised. However, I will accept the answer that people were scared and time was running out and they didn't necessarily provide evidence of their claims with all "T"'s dotted and "I"'s crossed.

It is right and reasonable to expect proof of dramatic claims. There is no hiding behind "privacy" when someone has made a claim on many different websites on many different occasions. I would expect the same standard to be applied to myself. I would not ask for funds for anyone without providing clear proof of where the money was going.

I'm sure Andy will want to do the same thing and put this matter behind him so he can focus on a full recovery. I don't think we need to invent rationalizations and excuses for lack of proof just yet. If the need is real, the proof can very easily be supplied without a court order from Andy himself.


The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #171
180. I recall a copy of an invoice being posted after the first round
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM by Lisa0825
of fundraising. It is probably still in the archives.

edited to add: I didn't find it in the archives, but it was posted a month or two ago, when all this started. I remember Will Pitt being angry because someone was questioning the idea of donating. I don't recall if it was Will or Andy who posted it.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #180
191. ok that would be a good link to have
If there was proof provided earlier, I certainly stand corrected. I didn't see it, but there were a lot of fund-raising threads going at one time, and I have to confess I didn't read them all. It would be good to direct the admins to that link also.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #180
460. When this issue first came up
Several months back, Andy FAXed me invoices from his local doctor to the tune of about $13,000. I checked with two medical professional friends of mine and they told me the prodedures were in keeping with Andy's claims.

Because of the questions that some people raised (and you know who you are) I posted a link (actually Will Pitt did. He was furious about having to do so).

The mods pulled the post because of privacy concerns (I had redacted personal info other than Andy's name).
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #171
202. Not now
Let's focus on Andy and his recovery instead of rehashing this.

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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #202
248. Demgirl
focus on Andy and his recovery, thank you.
hiley
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #248
289. Great idea
That was my message. Thank you for reinforcing it.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #289
353. sure thing
we have to have solidarity!
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #248
576. I agree!
I do NOT believe this was a scam.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
555. Yes he can. Reporter speaking here.
But he would need to give written permission to the hospital and/ or the doctor--not just a note to Skinner.

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. You would know the truth if someone
would not have deleted the post i just wrote after spending a good 45 min. on the phone with JH and that office...

I quit... this is unacceptable, frankly. i know you are stressed, but i gave you facts... why would you delete them???????

you will believe rumors over Andy? well, why don't you humiliate him further and call him... I can give you the number and ask him for permission to call the hospital yourself... i had that lovely task of having to tell him why i needed to speak to the hospital...and you deleted that information?

you people, yes all of you, should be in arms that there is doubt, but even if there is doubt, i gave you facts and those facts were deleted... guess Bev did a good job.

i quit and I hope you guys can get yourselves together enough to issue a public apology to andy...

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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Hello, Lala_rawraw
You are welcome to re-post in this thread. But at the moment we are not permitting any additional threads on this topic, which is why your thread was deleted.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. deep breath, please
Edited on Tue May-10-05 12:50 PM by seabeyond
cause i watched people sunday night and all that was done. we are better than this. you saw in the donation. have faith this will work out fine and we are capable of doing this in love. look at all we have done in love
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #51
115. I cannot calm down because I just had to tell
My friend who is dying of cancer that I need to verify that he was dying of cancer. I know he is ill, but I had to prove it to everyone else. After I went through all of that it was then deleted. How can I be calm?

You all know I am ill as well and I never ask for money because of things like this, because I know how quickly this type of smear can happen. I am hurt beyond words at this turn of events and this doubt.

We all thank our few heros when they do work for us, but we turn on them at the first sign of trouble. And then we ask why there are no heros. There are no heros because we destroy them as soon as we are done with them.

I can no longer be a part of DU as much as it pains me. I write this with tears people. I love this place, but I can no longer be part of this community unless a public apology is issued to Andy.

We either stand behind our heros or we stand alone.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #115
134. One troll did this....
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:15 PM by Misunderestimator
not DU... We all have supported Andy through this, but there is and should be some skepticism about fundraising online. Skinner is handling this as professionally as possible, and seems to be bending over backwards to keep the situation under control. You shouldn't blame DU for this after what DU has done for Andy.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #134
354. Very well said
I think that we sometimes forget that administering this site is not an easy task. One has to gingerly tiptoe between free speech and slandering that could jeopardize the existence of this site.

As long as someone posted that the fund raising was a hoax, and with the large amount raised so quickly by most of us who have never met Andy and really do not know much about him - Skinner is right to take all the steps necessary. And if someone is offended - too bad.

As much as we all want Andy to get well, we should understand that Skinner's first concern should be this website.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #354
573. "If someone is offended- too bad" Wow.
Come to think of it...none of us really know each other, do we? I suppose everything is relative, isn't it? For example- you don't know who I am. Not really. I don't know who you are. Hell, for that matter, how do any of us know that this is an authentically democratic website? It's called trust. It's called awareness. This is a community. At least that is what it fronts as.

I find these implications offensive. I am fully capable of making my own decisions. I choose to donate to Andy so that he can continue to live a full and productive life. No one forced me to help Andy. No one shamed or belittled me. It was my conscious decision to help an individual that has given more to his country than most. Al Franken, Mike Malloy and Thom Hartmann are just a few of the many that seem to agree.

Think about it. Where are we? Really? A democratic forum where liberals and progressives exchange ideas, correct? That is what they say it is, anyway. Of course we have our share of freepers. I wonder if the Repubs have as many on their websites? Kinda doubt it. No worries, though. We know where we are. The DU Free Speech Zone. Right?

This is shameful. Truly shameful. Take some responsibility for creating this atmosphere. Or better yet, take responsibility for allowing this atmosphere to be created.

This thread is shameful. It is an embarrassment. The appalling lack of concern for a REAL MEDICAL CRISIS and the arrogance to suggest that any of you know better is quite a striking contrast to what I personally witnessed on these boards for an entire week. God help any of us in a similar situation. If you or I or even Skinner, for that matter, suddenly fell victim to cancer and had an opportunity to live...that's right- LIVE...but didn't have insurance (like MANY OF US)...should we notify the hospital that is treating us that we need a doctors excuse to prove credibility or should we just submit our proof as a party favor at our wake? I am appalled.

Like I said, it's all relative! I'm offended. Very offended. Insulted. I never thought I'd see this level of paranoia and lack of trust and common sense. Think about it. Most DUers know who ANDY IS. WE KNOW HOW MUCH HE HAS CONTRIBUTED. WE KNOW HOW MUCH HE IS LOVED. We shouldn't apologize for doing the right thing. We shouldn't apologize for giving a damn! We shouldn't apologize for taking care of each other. I CERTAINLY WON'T!

BTW- Maybe I do know you. Wasn't that you who opened one of the last threads used to fundraise for Andy? Very kind gesture for someone who "really does not know much about him." You see? It's all relative.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #115
137. if you look at this thread what you ask for is happening
yet you turn your back on it. you dont need to lala.

"We either stand behind our heros or we stand alone."

look at this thread. look at all the strangers, who's faces you have never seen, but all the people you recognize. yes i know you were sick. it was the same day you fought so hard for andi, that you shared with me your story and left an impact.

this thread is confirmation for what you ask for. look at the love and trust of so many here

one person, started stuff up. many dont spend the time here you do, know what you do. dont fault them

see the good, if you can, cause the opportunity is to see a great amount of good

you the friend of andi, share with us that dont know, then watch how we bloom in support. that is not a bad thing. and that is me allowing you an awfully lot of power

love you
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #137
182. I don't see the love here right now
I see the support for Skinner but not for Andy and now apparently Will and I are co-hoaxers...

you know, this is defamation and all 3 of us are now in a position where our credibility is in question... the very credibility we use to make our living... not appropriate, but beyond that... what I see here is a great many people who should be angry at the rumor and the person spreading it and not allowing this smear campaign. i don't see that and that hurts me... this whole thing is upsetting.

if I yelled at you somewhere in another thread, I apologize... but I woke up to this and nearly had a stroke over this... and honestly, we should be talking about news not distracting ourselves with rumors.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #182
201. i am kissing all over you, i see at least ten maybe more
responding to this little piece right here. we have will supporting andi, you and skinner all in one and steph embracing. there is steph with a whole piece of thread asking for all andi supporters and there it is. me and arneheim? are above doing circles of love

girl

love is givin. it is yours to chose and receive or not. but i certainly see it here

bless you love you, i have faith

and as a bottom poster said, keep eye on the ball we all did a good thing, some like the names above i mentioned did a LOT of a good thing

i dont know one poster wants to give the disruptor a whipple without antheis...what ever
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #182
214. Sending love
to Andy and all his friends who've been helping him. I don't know any of you, but I work with cancer patients every day and can tell when people are sincere. Getting a cancer diagnosis is the quickest way to find out who your real friends are. You're all doing a great job.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #182
225. I have no doubts in you, Will, and certainly not Andy.
I also have no doubts in flyarm, sfexpat2000, or mehr.

Don't let trolls break apart what we are trying to build. You and the above mentioned are important parts of this community.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #182
570. Lala the support is here for andy
I never doubted him, or his supporters for a minute. I wasn't able to donate much, but I donated what I could. I have a pretty good idea who the "troll" is, or who the troll was representing, anyway, and trust me - they are capable of stirring up some major shit. This isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last time, but the one thing I've figured out, is that said troll is a very sick person.

Not only did they question Andy's (and yours, and Will's, and everyone involved with fundraising's) integrity, but they questioned Skinner's and put him in a really tricky situation. And I certainly hope they've amused themselves - causing pain to other people DOES seem to amuse this "troll". There are some people who aren't familiar with this person, and those would be the people questioning, I think.

Anyway, Skinner obviously felt he had to say something, and he chose his words very carefully. I really don't see how he could have responded any other way.

I think the few people worrying will be easily reassured once Andy is able to answer Skinner, and it's no big deal, really. We should just be grateful that Andy got what he needed, and not let this "troll" cause any more trouble or hurt feelings than she already has.



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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #137
256. seabeyond, you once responded to one of my posts
I was frustrated and sad - it was after the election - and your response was so sweet and kind that I never forgot that kindness even though I have long since forgotten the words.

We are a family here and we do need to support each other. Without the love and the kindness, we will surely fail at whatever we do.

lala, I did not mean to come across as anything other than just rational and quiet.

:grouphug: to ALL of DU, even the trolls because, bless their hearts, they need the love the most.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #256
267. amen n/t
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #137
574. Who planted the seed of doubt? Why?
There was no need for this. This was done intentionally. I'll tell you one thing right now...I will not apologize for doing the right thing. No one should.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #115
139. Who do you think needs to apologize?
The DU administration? Why?
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #139
159. No, but
Since the poster in question is gone by now, the host of the party makes an apology on behalf of their guests and in defense of their guests.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #159
169. I have to disagree
Skinner and the rest of the DU administration aren't responsible for what other people write. It's enough that they monitor the site, remove trolls, and keep it generally safe for progressives. Those who bashed you and Andy are the ones who owe you.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #169
192. I agree
lala, Skinner is doing an impossible job as well as you can do it right now; he or DU aren't the cause, the ones who started this riumour (and who were banned) were.

I know tensions are sky-high righ now but please, step back and take a breath.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #159
211. Is it all right to post a new Andy thread yet? If so, your deleted post
indicates that we should be sending well wishes on a day like today. I support your position on this. The doctors pretty much indicate that even before the trolling begain they were concerned about the calls and their effect on their patient.

I am pretty dismayed by the whole thing. The person who started this clamour has a special place reserved for him or her, whether it be a cell or hell I don't care which.

I would just hope that someone who knows Andy could start off fresh and begin a thread that sends DU's goodwill to Andy. The doctors seemed concerned by this whole process and think its unhealthy for him.

I would suggest deleting all of the nonsense when things are officially settled and provide a candy and flowers thread so that everyone here can get back to the business of showing their support for the journey he is about to take. I don't mean to turn DU into a collective Hallmark card but as they say "it's the thought that counts." Those thoughts provide strength for a person about to go through, and is going through, what he is/has. The endpoint is not the surgery.

It's too late to retract the damage from the troll. However, it may be time to turn attention to the more important task of providing a network of support.

I say: Good Luck Andy! We will see you back here soon. :hug:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #115
145. STOP saying "dying of cancer." It's defeatest hyperbole and ...
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:17 PM by TahitiNut
... a slap in the face of those who, through trust, generosity, and a sense of community have donated their time and money, in some cases in VERY short supply, to a goal you claim to support: the defeat of a particularly scary illness.

(Sheesh! Talk about becoming "part of the problem"!!) :eyes:
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #145
156. To be truthful
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:21 PM by ohio_liberal
The prognosis of those with pancreatic cancer is not good. I've been through it twice, with two different family members who received a more traditional treatment. I don't know the long term prognosis of one who has the Whipple procedure. I imagine it's significantly higher which is why Andy is going to do it. It's not a slap in the face of anyone, it's just being honest. Pancreatic cancer is deadly.

edited for clarity
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #156
168. self delete
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM by katinmn
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #156
173. And frame of mind is VERY IMPORTANT to the healing process
This load of stinking crap did not need to be laid on a man who is facing such a thing.

IMO, it's this sort of thing that can make the difference between a rsuccessful outcome and an unsuccessful outcome.

And an SOB troll out to get their jollies so their buds on some web site can rant and rave, celebrate and make sick jokes at the expense of a gravely ill man will be to blame if there is not a successful outcome, IMO.

Pure evil drove somebody to this. There can be no other explanation, and the bastards are still out their yukking it up.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #173
503. "i piss down the throats of these nazis"
Edited on Tue May-10-05 06:25 PM by SlavesandBulldozers
-Hunter S. Thompson
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #156
175. um. Andy reads DU.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #175
181. And you think that
his doctors haven't discussed this stuff with him?

We're still all pulling for him, of course.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #181
186. Absolutely
I pray every day for his full recovery.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #186
206. I know. I'm on edge and I had hoped today we would be
focusing positive energy as large community.

effing freepers.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #206
212. I totally agree with you about the Freepers and Trolls
It's an incredibly screwed up thing to do. I can't even imagine how someone gets their jollies on this kind of stuff.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #175
183. And I guarantee he knows the score
And apparently so does Lala.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #156
177. Still not that great
3-5 year survival after Whipple is about 8% nationally, and more like 20% at Hopkins, which is the best place in the world to have it done.

Pancreatic cancer is quite possibly the worst and most virulent kind there is. Sorry to hear you had to go through it with your family. I lost a friend to it as well, so not quite the same, but I still hear you.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #177
431. Those are FABULOUS survival rates for a deadly disease
Those of you who are being doomsayers are doing a tremendous disservice to everyone who is pulling for Andy and most especially to Andy himself.

Here's what you remind me of:

"You look like shit. You need to lose weight before you can wear something like that...... I'm only telling you this for your own good."

Get a grip, people, sometimes survival hinges on one single thing alone: HOPE.

YOUR job is to cultivate it, not destroy it.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #431
534. Some thoughts on survival rate
Maybe it's me because I have gone through a very personal experience with losing loved ones to cancer and this I do know - if the doctors didn't think this treatment would have a chance I don't think they would have accepted him for the surgery especially knowing he had to somehow raise the cash just to get the surgery! John Hopkins is a very reliable and very reputable institution and I am putting some of my faith into that knowledge.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #431
579. Thank you!!!
Now if only those posters will knock it off!
HOPE is vital!
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #156
179. Let's save that conversation
for another time. Though we don't always realize it at the time, things said by well meaning friends can be very painful for those newly diagnosed with cancer.

Think of it this way - for every kind of cancer that exists, someone has been cured of it. There is always hope.

This situation is a good example of how a cancer diagnosis is like setting off a bomb in the middle of your life. No one has time to plan for it, no one has time to suddenly find money to pay for it and no one has time to put together an elaborate fundraising effort to meet the costs.

Everyone should be incredibly proud of the work they've done to help raise funds for Andy, you couldn't have done a better job. Period. Ignore the naysayers, you did the right thing and you did it well.

Now pull together and give your friend the unconditional support and friendship he needs.

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #156
185. I slipped when I said dying
because he will be fine... please excuse the slip ... I am a bit upset right now.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #156
189. pancreatic cancer can be deadly, but it's not hopeless
I, too, have lost people to pancreatic cancer, but I've also known a man who had it almost 15 years ago and survived for a decade. Ended up dying in his sleep of natural causes. We've banded together to give Andy the best, now all we can do is wait and pray.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #189
233. Absolutely...
I can't speak for anyone else but I never meant to suggest that all was lost. My odious communication skills nag at me constantly. I was trying more to lend some understanding to lala's post. Andy needs proper treatment ASAP. I'm actually quite excited for Andy that he's getting more than traditional treatment.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #233
242. he does need it ASAP. My understanding is that one of the
things that can make pancreatic cancer so deadly is that it often goes undetected for a long, long time.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #156
218. My father died of pancreatic cancer 7 years ago. There was nothing
they could do for him. The surgical procedures are supposed to be better now, but at that time for his cance they said is was less than 50/50 that he would survive the operation, and only about 50/50 that the op would do him any good. So, yes, pancreatic cancer is deadly.

But, Andy's chances are much better. And I believe.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #218
235. Treatment has come a LONG way
you are correct. It is not unreasonable for someone to slip and say the word dying with Pancreatic Cancer because until recently it was unheard of for anyone to live more than a few months after their diagnosis. My father died 2 weeks after his diagnosis but that was in 1973.

Andy has every reason to expect a great outcome, especially with all the love and hope he must know we are sending to him. It does make a huge difference for recovery. Things are much better now so Andy, if you get this far reading someday, keep up the good thoughts and be strong. When you can't be we will be strong and hopeful for you. Your situation looks good from here and we are here for you.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #235
509. it has been a heartbreaker for a lot of families..
My mother was dead 40 days after her diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. She was 64, though, and it was 1986 and there weren't any Whipples available even if Medicare would have paid for the procedure. Andy is young, medicine has improved, and he has the support of hundreds or thousands.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #115
164. lala, I hope you don't leave
I know you are hurt because of the trolls and their success in stirring up some doubt among a few people. Let's focus our anger at them.

Andy is well known because of his work on election reform and his unfortunate association with Bev. He is a public figure and the love and support his friends at DU have shown him has stirred a lot jealousy and resentment among people who do not want those of us on the left unified and they do not want us to win our battle against reform. It's sick, but they wanted to cause this divisiveness within our ranks.

Let's not let them get one over on us.

Hugs to you. I will really miss you if you leave.

Kat
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #164
193. I know thank you... this rumor has spread
And if you go to some other forums, they are laughing at him...
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #193
205. they are asshole lala, plain and simply assholes
you know what pigs. i dont get why they do that, but they are the only ones contaminated by it. i shake my head too. pigs
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #193
250. and lala the disgusting
they were doing it two nights ago. before all this happened. they just do this. they take something someone shares, and craps on it. how they can be so cold hearted to poor, or to children, or to the innocents in iraq or to anyone....animals.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #115
172. lala....
I know because, I went through the same thing a kos with 3 or so trolls, who knows if they were the same person or not !
I am disabled and ill as well and have been called a liar about that too.
Andy, must be so hurt and I really wish people would remember who he is and all of the good things he does.
Andy deserves respect...
lala, it will all work out and Andy's name will be cleared.
if we don't believe and have hope, we can not survive; lala I send my love and respect to you...you are not alone
marilyn (hiley)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #115
178. la_la
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:32 PM by merh
:hug: It will be alright. You're being upset just adds to Andy's stress and your own illness. Deep breaths and don't let them to do you what they are trying to do, which is negatively affect you and shake your confidence.

Just calm down, the truth will come out and the idiots who have doubted the legitimacy of Andy's plight will get theirs in the end. Some have clearly shown their deep hate and hidden agendas by posting negative comments, so they have only harmed themselves.

:pals: Calm down and breath. We will work this out and straighten out the whole mess. :hug:

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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #115
187. yes there does need to be proof
People do lie. In the other thread, I told my story of how I was scammed. I knew my former friend for over a decade, my partner knew her since high school. I don't think I was a stupid person but I was scammed. Anyone with an open heart has the potential for being scammed.

The proof of serious illness is just too easy for the patient to provide. No one is asking you to provide it. The patient or his legal advisor needs to provide it. But there is a diagnosis and treatment plan, it shouldn't be this hard to get ahold of it.

Deep breaths, we are all emotional right now.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #187
204. I am sick too.. shall I send you my blood work?
No one forced anyone to donate. People did so because they know, respect, or care about him. Donating for any other reason would be careless. You can feel free to ask Andy for his medical records, but my god how sick that question is going to sound. Sorry, but apparently my calling the hospital does not count because I am "a friend" of his.

Feel free to ask Andy for his medical records. He did say he is willing to provide them to Skinner... will that be enough? Or will you need to actually examine them for yourself?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #204
239. la-la, don't give in to their hate, don't let them do this to you
or to Andy! Stop and relax - fuck them if they require more than folks who are close to Andy vouching for his condition.

I'd say we should try to get the surgeon to bottle the tumor so that we can auction it to the highest bidder to help with his treatment, but damn, can you imagine the circus that would cause? :shrug:

Relax, take care of yourself, breath and calm down. I don't want to worry about your health at the same time I am worrying about Andy's and I don't want him to worry about you, when he needs to focus on himself.

Don't play into their hands, this is what they wanted, to disrupt, to harm, to spread hate. Damn it, we worked to hard in uniting, let's not fall apart now.

:hug: :loveya: :loveya: :hug:

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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #239
268. that is right merh
we will not let anyone make things fall apart..lala you are not alone.
solidarity
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #268
496. {{hug}}
:hug:

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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #239
427. Because of what DU is, we have to half expect situations like this.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 04:31 PM by Ladyhawk
I donated because I felt it was the right thing to do. And I stand by that decision.

But because I'm not right in the thick of things, I see how a troll could cause a wave of doubt to sweep through the forum. I've exchanged PMs with Andy and I've always liked him. I based my donation on my "gut feeling" regarding Andy as a very nice fellow who has been unfailingly kind in his dealings with me and with others.

However, I have been scammed in the past and it isn't a good feeling, having someone twist your trust into a knife and stab you in the back with it.

I'm sorry the mods felt they had to delete la_la's post. I really would have liked to have read it. Perhaps deleting the post was a mistake, but the real fault lies with the troll(s) who tried to turn our celebration and unity against us.

La_la, I hope you stay. In fact, I would be very upset if you didn't stay. I believe I understand why you feel the way you do. I went through something similar and even though I wasn't sick, it hurt me deeply. It wasn't something as close to home as your experience, but it hurt, just the same.

Now, as I convalesce from surgery, I discover that everything hits me 50 times harder than it normally would. Being sick robs us of our coping skills. It totally sucks. You need the energy to fight your own disease, as merh pointed out so eloquently.

In this situation, as much as it seems unfair, we have to let Skinner do his job. Blame the stupid troll. I hate trolls and flame wars. I swear. I hate the distrust that forums sometimes engender by their very nature. I've almost quit a dozen times because of these issues, but I've stayed, so far, trying to keep in mind all the weaknesses of being part of a forum. It only takes one idiot to ruin things for everyone. Now we just have to learn to ignore the idiots.

Hang in there, everyone.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #427
494. Blessings to you Ladyhawk
:hug:

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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #204
277. I am satisfied if he supplies the information to skinner
If you were soliciting funds here, I would expect you to provide the information also. If I were soliciting funds here, I would expect to provide the information. It is too easy to provide proof and to avoid a situation that can only cause more hurt and suspicion. Good documentation at the very beginning would have done so much to defuse the power of the troll's accusation.

I think after you sleep on it, you will agree that it is right and proper to supply proof in any fund-raising activity. Not being able to properly document where such funds are going could leave one open to criminal investigation, not just internet gossip. I would not want to see you or Andy in that situation. There's no reason for it.

My former friend the scammer has now served federal time for fraud. Everybody in prison for fraud or who has been in prison for fraud has a friend or family member that they deceived and probably a lot of them. It is not wrong to ask for proof. It keeps our money going to the good guys and not the bad guys.

That is what we ALL want here, correct?


The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #277
369. I would rather
do the right thing for the wrong reason than nothing at all because I am afraid to lose a liitle money. I think the whole proof thing you keep insisting on is waaaaay out of place right now. I seriously doubt that anyone gave anything they couldn't afford to, and it was for purely altruistic reasons.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #369
419. this is for Andy's protection and the future protection of others also
I will quote my own post #332:


Providing proof and open accounting of where the funds are going protects the recipient of the funds.


The public brouhaha was not sparked by the skeptics. It was sparked (apparently) by a jealous person who has competed with Andy in the past for fund-raising. Everybody -- everybody -- on this earth who is worth a damn and who has done anything in any good cause has someone who doesn't like you. Sometimes that someone is a private person and they just do the internet troll thing. Sometimes that person is in the federal government, or has the contacts to make a quiet complaint there, and then the federal investigators come around.

I do not know about you, but if I were in a position where I needed to raise funds on the internet, especially on a political website, I would damn sure provide a careful proof and accounting for my OWN safety. The proof isn't just to protect DUers who can give or not give as they like.

Providing proof and open accounting of where the funds are going protects the recipient of the funds.


I'm out a few bucks if I'm cheated in an online donation. But if a person who receives donations is accused of fraud, then they could be out a few months or a few years.


----------------------------------------------------

We know Andy has an enemy who is perfectly capable of causing trouble. We do him no favor if we don't encourage him to protect himself. Good documentation of the facts helps all and harms none except the troll.

I apologize in advance for repeating myself but it seems to me that if we miss this point, we are not doing all we should to prevent future trolls from causing similar disruptions. When you have good documentation, you don't have to be concerned about unknown people naming names and claiming claims. You can just brush them off and go about your day.




The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #369
591. Hippiegranny
That was exactly why I gave. I don't have much of a relationship with anybody on this site, as I post pretty infrequently. But, I read often, and I've read many of Andy's posts, not to mention those who were helping raise the money for his surgery.

In the back of my mind, because I don't know anybody personally, there was the bit of niggling doubt about this whole thing. But, my gut told me that this was for real. And I'd rather lose a bit of money rather than not do the right thing. :)

Anyhow, as for Skinner and his concerns, I totally understand why he feels cautious about this whole thing. My job involves giving grants to charities, and I'm usually strident in getting information up front before donating. I understand why people would feel a bit angry or upset that doubt has fallen upon their efforts at providing surgery for Andy. I personally believe that this is for real. But, to be honest, as fundraisers you should be prepared to address some of these questions before people are willing to hand over their money.

In this situation, you were very lucky to have raised the necessary funds for Andy's surgery. I'm still proud to have been a part of that, and I truly wish him a speedy recovery and years of happiness. :)

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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #277
571. Actually, no - it's not what *I* want
or I would have asked for it PRIOR to donating. It's kind of silly to ask after the fact, in my opinion. Anyway, I donated because I wanted to donate, because, although I don't know Andy, I know about him. I don't know WillPitt or Lala, but I know about them. I don't know the "bean counter", or the guy whose home Andy stayed at on his way to JH, but I know about them, and I just TRUST them. I've read their writings, and I feel like I know them.

If I had had reservations, I think the time to ask would have been before donating. But then again, I'm also somewhat familiar with the "troll's" M.O. - I don't know her - or if it wasn't her, it was one of her friends, but I know about her. I donated to their cause, and probably got scammed, but that was my fault.

Anyway, I guess I understand why some people would begin to have doubts, but please don't think you're speaking for ALL of us.
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12345 Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #204
279. This wouldn't be an issue if there weren't so many dishonest
people out there who take advantage of other's generosity and good nature. You're not asking for $50,000. People have learned to be skeptical. Everyone I know has a half dozen stories about being cheated out of money for "a good cause". After a while you don't know who to trust.

That being said, I think that the person who started this mess played on this fear. I don't think that it's wrong for some people to question the authenticity of the claims, but I think that posting unsubstantiated allegations is wrong.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Or is it, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again? I can't remember
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #279
339. fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled
my favorite
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #187
469. As I explained above
I have seen invoices fof Andy's medical procedures in Washington. According to friends who are ER and ICU nurses and a medical tech (lab), the procdeures were consistent with Andy's reports.

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SGBL Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #115
330. You must be kidding
DU just raised $50,000 to save your friend and because of one post you are forsaking everyone that helped and had nothing to do with said post? I sincerely hope this is just legit temporary anger and not a serious statement. This statement alone now makes me wonder.

I hope you see the irony of this statement "We all thank our few heros when they do work for us, but we turn on them at the first sign of trouble."

followed by "I can no longer be a part of DU" after what has been done to help.

I don't think skinner was trying to hurt anything, but I think there is always legit concern about these kinds of things. I remember donating to Bev Harris when the BBV thing hit the bartcop forums. That forever tainted online donating for me. I know there are legit causes, but unfortunately there are tons of non-legit causes. Please don't take offense to asking for confirmation of said causes, it's just a safety thing for all involved.
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
52. Who is this Bev you speak of?
:shrug:
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:53 PM
Original message
are you joking, or do you really not know? nt
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Jesus Saves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #52
64. blackboxvoting.org
She was a elections activist. She raised money on DU. It was never clear where it all went. She claimed she was followed by a Secret Service agent named 'Mike'. Many on DU still think there is some nefarious 'Mike' watching them.

Bev is out of the elections fraud business. She spent the money, no one knows where it went or what happened to it.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
75. Bev is out of the election fraud business? Hmm
I did not know that. Did Mike finally get to her? :evilgrin:
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Jesus Saves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. I'm assuming she is
I've heard nothing about her in a long time.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #77
120. Well, I have and I nearly blew lunch when I read the subject line of the
email. I kid you not, it said " BEV HARRIS, "THE ERIN BROCKOVICH OF ELECTIONS," IS COMING TO BOSTON!"

She's charging $10 a head to hear her speak. The rest of the text of the email was very unsetteling too.

If our TROLL today thinks that behavior helps the cause, they have another think coming.

I might just have to drop Eve Lyman an email and let her in on a few facts about her "Erin Brockovich" that I am sure don't show in her resume.


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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #120
462. I have my suspicions that Bev is behind the troll
Once she turns on you, she hates you with an inhuman passion. I would not put ANYTHING past this witch.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #462
475. "MrNiceGuyDied"....
that name sounds so vengeful.

Like someone who used to pretend to be decent, but now feels burned, and has no qualms about doing nasty stuff.

Gawd... why would anyone pick such a transparently trollish screen name?

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #475
491. You have to look into the black heart of Bev Harris to undertstand
Edited on Tue May-10-05 05:59 PM by Kelvin Mace
She is just that bitter and vindictive. She has cost me, Andy and MANY American dearly for her greed and ego.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #491
507. Oh, hell, I don't disagree.
I was just thinking how APT such a name is for a vindictive person.

Whoever she might be.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. maybe she decided
to scratch the word "election"?
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #79
89. Snark!
:rofl:
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
84. I thought that was a joke!
I"m serious. I had no idea that REALLY happened.

The truth is stranger than fiction, ey?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #64
451. She apparently blew the $$$. So? I gave $$ to AS anyway.
Made me feel good so tough noogies.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #451
523. Well said
nt
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #451
583. Me too but I guess I'm just a selfish bastard
for feeling that way :P

I donated to Bev, hope she enjoyed it.

I hope even more that Andy's surgery goes well.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #64
557. Bev is not out of the election fraud business.
She's been very active in California recently and I'm told by sources I trust that she'll be presenting some damning investigative findings on Diebold at a hearing next week before California election officials. No one involved in CA election reform has been asked for any money, although an association of Bev's posts regularly in an election reform forum that I'm on and has alerted us to several key issues in Sacramento that we wouldn't have known about otherwise.

I don't condone some of what Bev has done in the past, especially her treatment of Andy, however.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
565. No, she's still in it
She and Phil Lehto (aka Land Shark) gave a presentation last night at the Metropolitan Democratic Club in Seattle. I couldn't get off work, so don't know how it went. I'm not going to publicly call her out if she wants to keep working on the issue. The community is large enough by now that she can't take it down. On the other hand, I'm not giving her any money either.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. why not repost in this thread?
perhaps that is the correct procedure?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Please repost here
Skinner was just enforcing the temporary rule of only this thread on the situation in an evenhanded manner. That's all.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. Here is lala's deleted post: (hope she doesn't mind me doing this...)
ANDY GAVE ME PERMISSION TO PHONE HIS DOCTOR... I CALLED, THEN PATCHED ANDY IN... HERE IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW:

1). I, ALTHOUGH I ALREADY KNEW THIS, WAS ABLE TO CONFIRM THAT ANDY IS INDEED WHERE HE SAYS HE IS AND IS ILL

2). THEY COULD NOT TELL ME SPECIFICS BECAUSE OF HIPPA, BUT THEY SAID THAT PEOPLE ARE CALLING THEM AND THEY ARE NOT PLEASED ABOUT THIS VIOLATION AND THEY ARE NOT PLEASED ABOUT THE STRESS THIS IS CAUSING FOR THEIR PATIENT.

3). THEY ASKED THAT PEOPLE STOP CALLING THE HOSPITAL AND HARRASSING THE OFFICE.

4). JANET, THE WOMAN I SPOKE WITH AT THE OFFICE, SUGGESTED THAT I TELL THOSE OF YOU SPREADING THIS RUMOR THAT "THIS IS NOT HEALTHY FOR OUR PATIENT. OUR HOSPITAL IS NOT IN THE HABIT OF GIVING OUT PRIVATE INFORMATION. MR. STPEHPENSON IS IN FACT ILL, BUT I CANNOT AND WILL NOT VIOLATE THE RULES OF THIS HOSPITAL AND OF THE HIPPA STATUTE TO ADDRESS QUESTIONS THAT ARE CLEARLY MOTIVATED BY SOME PERSONAL ATTEMPT AT VIOLATING MR. STEPHENSON'S PATIENT RIGHTS AND HIS RIGHTS AS A PATIENT OF THIS HOSPITAL"

NOW, FOR AN UPDATE ON ANDY'S SURGERY: HE IS SCHEDULED FOR A SCAN AND GOING BACK IN ON THURSDAY. HE IS GETTING THE SURGERY AT JH. HE IS NOT IN THE HOSPITAL UNTIL THE ACTUAL SURGERY, ALTHOUGH HE HAD TO DO THE "CLEANSING" PROCESS. HE WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN.

SO YES, MY DEAR FRIENDS, JUST IN CASE YOU WERE CONFUSED OR IN DOUBT... AND BECAUSE AS ANDY'S FRIEND, YOU PROBABLY SAW ME AS BIASED, I WORKED THIS AS A JOURNALIST TO FIND PROOF FOR YOU.

SO STOP THIS CRAP AND ASK WHY AND WHO IS SPREADING THIS. ANDY MADE A SUGGESTION TO ME ON THE PHONE AND IT IS ONE THAT I AGREE WITH, BUT CANNOT POST BECAUSE THIS THREAD WILL GET LOCKED.

THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT OF A GOOD PERSON. I KNOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING THIS RUMOR FEST (I HAVE SEEN THE CONVERSATIONS ON CU, FOR EXAMPLE) BUT THERE IS NO HUMOR IN THIS.

NONE!!!!!

Regards, La La Raw Raw
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #68
160.  thanks for reposting this! I didn't have the latest and am
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM by sfexpat2000
happy to hear the surgery seems to be back in the schedule.

I've been up since 1:30a.m. my time arm wrestling with JH. Never try that at home. :hi:

on edit: Sorry, meaganmonkey. I shouldn't type until I can see.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #160
197. No prob!
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM by meganmonkey
This is all so out-of-control. One troll can so easily cause a terrible uproar. :eyes:

Fortunately, my internet at work caches everything (does that mean what I think it does?) so when I went back to her thread it wasn't missing for me.

And btw - THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE FOR ANDY!!!! :hug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #197
422. It wasn't one troll -
some folks just are very guarded & cynical.

Everything will work out!

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #422
449. merh, the one that posted here today was the one spamming me
last week and the one disrupting the diaries on this topic at KOS. To disrupt the effort by alarming people. And some folks ARE very guarded and cynical. :hi:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #449
489. I know my friend,
I also know of others that took advantage of the evil troll's vile lies and jumped on the band wagon and defended him. I hope that they realize that they outed themselves! :evilgrin:

So the evil troll caused the hospital to take better care of Andy and troll's associates became obvious! Not bad for a day's work. So thank you evil troll as you read this from your lurking, banished place! :evilgrin:

Being guarded and cynicial are fine, and can be healthy. But paranoia is dangerous (though it did keep me out of jail during the days of my mispent yuth!) and it can be very harmful.

What DU did for Andy united DU, the evil just wants to divide us. As the evil troll's jealousy reared its ugly head, it caused DU to unite to defend and protect Andy and our own generosity. Hmmm, "DU 3 - evil troll 0" - works for me! We should be proud. :grouphug:





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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #489
492. Yes, ma'am. A fine analysis :) n/t
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #492
493. ;-)
Mamma didn't raise no fool! ;-)

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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
236. meganmonkey thank you for
reposting this..
lala, i defend and stand with you.
hiley
:grouphug:



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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #68
452. If he comes outta surgery with a facelift & a Michael Jackson nose,
Edited on Tue May-10-05 05:00 PM by elehhhhna
alotta people are gonna be pissed!

sarc/off
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #68
581. Thank you La La Raw Raw and meganmonkey!!! n/t
:thumbsup:
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
59. I think you are doing a good thing,
but... according to some, if this were a hoax, you would be a co=hoaxer...

Just let Skinner deal with this and it won't upset you as much.

:)
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
67. well, since the person who first cried, "it's a hoax" has been
exposed as a troll and Skinner has said the only reason the thread was locked was because of the temporary one-Andy-thread-at-a-time rule, I think she should re-post the fruits of her labor here. I'd be proud to have her as a co-conspirator any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #59
151. According to some I would be a co=Hoaxer?
Are you shitting me?
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #151
165. I've read all these threads, and I don't think
that anyone has said that, FWIW.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #151
343. no,
just trying to see the other side.


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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. I understand why you're upset but,...please, don't leave.
Please. :hug:
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
62. lala_rawraw, I don't think that anyone is accusing Andy
well, except for the troll.

Skinner did say that any other posts re: Andy would be deleted until all of this is cleared up. Skinner and the guys aren't the enemy here - that troll person is.

Please try to be calm and post your information in this thread. There are so many of us who just simply want to know what is going on. Who is this troll? Why in the world would this person do this? etc etc etc

Please also remember that a lot of folks with very little available cash donated to Andy willingly. We do not want blood from Andy. We just want the whole story to come out.

Please repost your info here if you don't mind. We want to read it.

Thanks.

Arnie
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. edited...
Edited on Tue May-10-05 12:59 PM by Misunderestimator
I see that meganmonkey beat me to it... never mind.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
88. lalarawraw, please re-post your info in this thread
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM by Stephanie

Skinner has to find some way to maintain order, and he did so by banning all new threads on this topic. He invited you to post your info on this thread. I hope you will do it.

xx
S
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. meganmonkey posted it in post #68
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
97. That's over the line
Really, Skinner is trying to do right by all DUers, not just Andy, not just Andy's supporters and not just Andy's skeptics. Skinner has built a place for Dems to gather and share information openly but when you get 70,000 guests in your home, it's a little difficult to move around with stepping on some toes. To call out your host at the party is rude and counter-productive. All it does is piss people off and make them less inclined to listen to you. If you want a post about Andy to be left up (in violation of the temporary Andy moratorium) maybe you should have let the mods know AHEAD of time.

The only one who needs to make an apology here is you.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #97
215. Pardon me...
But I don't think you need to tell me what is over the line. I have mentioned DU at every appearance I have made. I think people here know how much I value this forum. So you need not lecture me. I have a right to be quite angry. I think what is over the line is the assumptions made here about "co-hoaxers" and such. I do not feel I need to let the mods know ahead of time when I am posting fact. Any mod who read that would have known that I was providing valuable information. And anyone who knows me knows that it is credible. In the meantime, no one has come to my defense about this "co-hoaxing" crap. You know, defamation is not something anyone should be blinking mildly at.
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Modem Butterfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #215
440. You have a right to be angry. You do not have a right to attack our host
No one has that right. This is Skinner's house and Skinner's rules. If you take issue with that, contact Skinner privately, you'll find he's pretty reasonable. But don't attack him publicly and then use a bullshit excuse like "I'm angry". That's just low. And don't expect the mods to go against Skinner, they don't deserve to be put in that position and besides, you will lose that argument every time.

You know, the rules Skinner has laid out mostly come down to common courtesy and using your head more than your heart to post. It really is that simple. I don't care how much you value DU when you're not pissed off and emotional, you should have enough respect for this place to follow the rules.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #40
593. Your Tantrums Are Not Helping Lala....
It's not helping Andy or anybody else. The rules were very clear and the reasons for them were very clear. You were asked to keep everything on this thread.

I don't think you should be dissing the very people who donated for Andy without asking for any proof of anything. I doubt if he would appreciate your attitude.
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
42. Federal privacy laws
have some leeway. When the patient checks in there is a list of people who can be allowed to call about your condition. The options go from restrictive to broad. Friends and family is one of the options.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. Please Keep Us Posted
eom
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thanks again, Skinner.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
48. Skinner - thanks. PM me if you need Andy's cell phone number.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
54. I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH ANDY
On the Scale of Shit He Has to Deal With, this has got to rate up there with aliens from Mars and the potential eruption of Yellowstone. But he understands that an accusation has been made, and that Skinner is in a rotten position because of it.

Skinner: Andy is in the car with Ted, and is about 40 minutes away from a computer, so he can't get to your PM with your number for the next little bit. I have PMed you his cell number. If you can, please call him so the two of you can talk personally and get this squared away. He will give you what you need to clear this up, and thanks again for handling this so well.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Original message
Thank you, Will! I love you! :)
My father passed from Pancreatic Cancer on March 9, 2005, and I consider Andy a friend. Good work!!! :) Best, Ida
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #54
72. Thanks, Will.
I just got back from lunch and was going to send Skinner the number.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
78. Thanks, Will
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
118. I have sent Skinner two phone numbers that he can use at the
hospital.

I was just talking yesterday to a DUer about this issue. Part of the challenge we had was no time to set up an apparatus -- one that could be verified by people with reasonable questions.

On the other hand, most real scams seem to involve a plea attached to a short time limit. So, I understand that this drive could have looked like that.

Fyi, that same troll has been spamming my email box under different names right up to Sunday night. I have reported it to their ISP. The goal was to derail me and that didn't happen.


:)
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #118
153. Skinner's stance on this is entirely reasonable
The accusation was made and he has to deal with it. IMHO, he has been an absolute champ about it.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #153
162. I agree. Thanks, Skinner. n/t
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #162
296. Thanks Skinner
solidarity
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #162
578. And I thank you, sfexpat, la_la, William and Skinner and .
Edited on Wed May-11-05 04:44 AM by Daphne08
anyone else I've omitted. Forgive me since I'm relatively new here.

I've lived a long time and have seen many times how one disruptive person can cause great chaos.

The only real way to counter such negativity is with continued positive words, thoughts and faith.

Please give Andy our best. I continue to send him good vibes and prayers because he is a real trooper and a fellow human being who needs our support.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #162
594. sfexpat
You and WillPitt are truly class acts! :)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #118
166. youa re right there was so little time
there were a couple things that would have been easier, if there had been more time. you girl worked with what you had and did terrific. i dont think this is a bad thing to come up. part of giving money to an unknown is the feeling of whether duped. that is no one to blame. doesnt hurt at all to see we are all in support and confident and in the know.

btw told dnc about du and this drive, so all look pretty. said a politician or two should look at this and hold it as an example of uninsured, and how we the people have to pay for fellow mans medical care, and that is just wrong

i have been proud of du for last couple weeks

and i am still proud of du
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
126. Yeah, I was just thinking
this is exactly what a very sick man needs right now - ACCUSATIONS OF FRAUD! Its a very sad thing when someone feels the need to lash out like that to intentionally harm someone or a group of people. I for one did not have a nickel to donate but am so grateful for the people who did give so generously, and who always seemingly pull through for others. You cannot let the ugly and nasty tar your good intentions.
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #54
152. Thanks Will
This truly is a rotten thing to have to deal with at a time like this. One troll... unbelievable.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #54
209. Right, let's review--vouching FOR Andy are Will Pitt and a number of
West Coast activists. Against is a known troll / FReep liar.

Hmmm . . . tough call, heh (heavy sarcasm)

"I never did repent for doing good / nor shall I now" Portia, Merchant of Venice

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #209
552. What a piece of work is man
Hamlet
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
217. If Will Pitt says it's legit, it's legit.
We have met several times. Will would not bullshit you.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
437. Thanks big time, Will.
I'm certainly glad Andy has a friend like you during a time like this.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
55. Thanks...and for the record, I stand behind Andy 110% (nt)
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
58. I honestly think that enough DUers know Andy and his situation
that it isn't a hoak, at least, I hope not. I'm sure Andy will do what he can to reasure all of us. Thank you Skinner. No matter what the outcome (and I feel confident all will be well) I'm proud of what DU did.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. I agree. So many people know him IN PERSON and he's been
in the public eye so much. I don't think it would be possible for him to scam and get away with it. It is too complicated. If he were truly anonymous here, sure, but I can't imagine a hoax this big working.... well, other than the election.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
213. I was scammed in person by someone I knew well for years
And the woman who scammed me scammed a great many people over the years and I learned recently she was back in business. No one who has a caring heart is too smart to be scammed. I hope you never have to find out the hard way.

Knowing someone in person is no proof that they are honest. Would that it were.

It just can't be that hard for the patient to provide documents such as a treatment plan, etc. Like I said earlier, I get that much from my vet!

It is right and proper to ask for proof. A person can be a wonderful person to go out drinking and talking and kicking up dust with -- and still be a scammer. My friend was very charming and lots of fun. That didn't make her honest.

It is right and proper to request proof.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72




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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
60. Maybe it's just me
but I have a pretty sensitive bullshit detector.
I never detected one thing. In fact, aunt and I had a great conversation about this when it all started and I mentioned that a Whipple was going to probably be involved, and everything that has happened is completely consistent with someone that has his symptoms. Everything. Not one red flag that this is a hoax. Some of the stuff has been pretty technical, things lay persons who were perpetuating a scam wouldn't think of.
The $50k? That is for starters. That is much less than what the standard for this surgery is. My guess is that it is just a large portion guestimate. Some people are hospitalized up to a month on TPN, IV fluids, fluid replacements from all the drains and the NG tubes. My guess is that fluid replacement ALONE in this surgery would be $2k-$3k per DAY. That doesn't include ANYTHING else.
For another thing, I kind of resent someone having to "prove" that they are legitimately ill.
I said before, If you can't give a gift to someone and not care what they do with it, then you shouldn't have given it in the first place.
Now, there are going to be so many strings attached to this gift, it will truly take the joy and goodwill of giving and receiving that happened.
The rumors have forced Skinner to have to verify this.
I find this soooo incredibly sad.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. Yep...one way or the other there's are real asshole out there
From what I can see, I don't think it's Andy, either.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #60
76. No, it's not just you
It is sad.

Kudos to Skinner and the admins for taking on this delicate situation with such sincerity and tact.
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Mizmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #60
80. "Proving you're ill"
Normally I would agree, but the man has gotten a rare and wonderful gift - $50,000 raised from virtual strangers to save his life. It's a freaking miracle ... it's incredible ... and if he has to verify that he's ill I think that is a small thing to ask.

What sucks is how this all came down. Very nerve wracking for those who donated. It could have been foreseen that a troll would make the accusation, but hindsight is 20/20.

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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Original message
Then ask for proof before you give
Not as an afterthought. Then, if it isn't provided satisfactorily, then don't give.
But this has now dampened the great thing that happened here.
I find that very sad.:(
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
107. I believe that was the intent of the now tombstoned poster
who originated this crap.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
320. Early on Andy did post doctor bills or records.
He was asked to take them down -- or the thread was pulled, I don't remember.

In a situation like this... I figure I'd rather trust people and be generous and occasionally get ripped off, than be a suspicious cynic clinging tightly to every penny I have.

And I've never been ripped off.

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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
83. Nice post....n/t
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #60
90. but, cant you see a higher in all. listen to so many posts
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:05 PM by seabeyond
here. look at the love and trust. look at people working so hard to be balance and fair and in grace

are you kidding. i am just seeing us getting better and better

always a higher in all things. and a bigger and more huge kiss on andi's cheek as he chats with skinner on a cell phone per will.,

i mean what the hell
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
163. Truer words were never spoken
I said before, If you can't give a gift to someone and not care what they do with it, then you shouldn't have given it in the first place.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #60
223. excellent post. n/t
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
326. Well said ...

I particularly like this line:

If you can't give a gift to someone and not care what they do with it, then you shouldn't have given it in the first place.

We should never give anything to anyone or any group without the complete understanding and acceptance that once that something is given, we no longer have any control over it, nor should we seek control. That's not truly giving.



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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #60
385. "If you can't give a gift to someone
and not care what they do with it, then you shouldn't have given it in the first place."

that is ALL that needs to be said. The END!!!!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #385
429. How does it applies to this case? The money were given
Edited on Tue May-10-05 04:12 PM by lizzy
for surgery, not as a gift to spend on anything the person wants to spend it on. So, of course people are going to care what the money went for.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #429
531. he also has to fly to Baltimore, pay for his room, hopefully stay on for
additional therapy and living expenses until he is up and at em once more. I think anyone of us would be thrilled to know this money helped him get to the teach in in Ohio this weekend because Andy wanted to share some of his expertise before the surgery.
I don't see anyone else begrudging him that or counting pennies. But anyone who did donate had the opportunity to put a note in expressing their wishes if they wanted to. Perhaps you missed that when you donated. But I don't think it occured to most people to be generous only up to a certain fine point, given the situation.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #60
554. I agree with you totally. -- either a gift is from the heart -- or it's
not.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
63. Thanks, HIPAA will give no one info if they call Dr or hospital
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:28 PM by uppityperson
NO ONE can get information if they call Andy's doctor or hospital unless Andy has given them permission in writing. This applies to spouses, parents, kids, other health care providers, financieurs, etc. Don't bother calling because they cannot legally tell you if he is even a patient, unless he has put (your name) in writing.

Thanks Skinner for the updates and good luck Andy.

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
65. If I may suggest
We have had posts from Will Pitt who was actually with Andy.

We have had posts from sfexpat2000 who counted the money and was talking to Johns Hopkins accounting dept.

Would it be easier to talk to these two individuals, in addition to Andy himself?

And, Skinner, I am glad that you brought the issue of donations to DU.

I have always used the snail mail and would almost missed the "deadline." I don't know what system you are using but for Andy merh established an account with Amazon that many of us found easier and more accommodating than paypal. Soooo for DU next campaign - and I promise I will donate - can you ask merh to link DU with Amazon, too?
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
66. Thanks Skinner. I will admint that I've had concerns but I let everyone
do things on their own accord.

As long as things aren't forced on us and people can do things of their own free will knowing that being a good person also has drawbacks.
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
69. Thanks, Skinner...
When Andy called me this morning to tell me the surgery had been cancelled, he sounded like a man who had been kicked in the guts.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
93. oh no
why was it cancelled?
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #93
98. temporary paperwork foul-up. They're trying to get things
straightened out, now looking at surgery on Thursday.
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redwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #98
109. thank you
i am having a hard time keeping up with all the posts. I am so sad that all the worry and doubt was caused by one idiot. my brother and I happily donated to andy and would do so again. we will be praying for a good outcome.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
94. I'm praying ... harnessing that positive energy ...
this will all work out.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
82. Skinner, you are a gentleman and a diplomat
Thank you!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
86. i think your policy on soliciting donations is wrong and must be fixed
if you hope to prevent these types of damaging incidents.

since you do edit posts on DU (removing, locking, etc) you open yourself up to lawsuits as the 'editor' of this site.

and since you do have that policy it seems inconsistent to NOT have the same editorial policy concerning solicitations of donations.

anyways, you would save yourself a LOT of potential trouble if you don't edit ANY post and let the community RATE each and every post and let us use filters to sift through the daily deluge and free yourselves from liability. (i am sure your lawyers can make it clear about editing and responsibility)

i've made this suggestion before but this issue highlights what i've been talking about for years now and considering your policy concerning solicitations it is probably worth a discussion.

gl

peace

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Jesus Saves Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. rating posts
I guess that means you trust the collective judgment of DU?
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #92
138. yes i do or i wouldn't be here
and this is about much more than the collective judgment of DU it is about taking editorial responsibility and opening yourself to litigation.

if nothing is edited/deleted/locked/etc than the owners are protected from liability but when they start making judgments on posts content then they are open to all sorts of legal liability which can cause major problems.

but i think it would make DU even more valuable to have it UNCUT.

:hi:

peace
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #86
146. He has copies of all edited threads. If he didn't delete them, he'd have
a problem too. He has a legal advisor and is doing the right thing. It's far more responsible to provide a copy of an archived thread to a PARTY to a case than to let someone be slandered or libeled on DU.

While his policy concerning donations may need a bit of tweaking, no one is forced to donate and we'd be a worse community if we didn't help our fellow humans in their time of need.

(people claiming that deleting threads is destruction of evidence need to spend the money and go to law school instead of commenting on subjects they know nothing about)
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #146
198. you are missing the point
exercising editorial control on your BBS makes you liable for the content, ALL of the content i.e. the ones that are NOT deleted.

i think that headache ain't worth having AND it will only get worse as DU grows.

finally i was pointing out a serious inconsistency in policy that this incident brings to light and and asking for discussion as well as pointing out a POSSIBLE solution

I also happen to think, as i stated above, that DU would be a better board if it was uncut, but that is just my personal opinion.

(when posting in haste it is easy to jump to conclusions)

peace
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #198
207. It doesn't unless you are part of a scheme to discredit or defraud
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #207
221. and you can be seen as ENDORSING it if you don't DELETE it
on a board where THAT is normally the PRACTICE.

and that is where the RISK comes in.

also i think DU would be even better, from an end user POV, UNCUT, but also from a liability standpoint considering current policy.

peace

(BTW: this has NOTHING to do with ANDY as i am a longtime supporter of Him and his efforts here on DU and elsewhere and am hoping for his speedy, complete recovery.)

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #221
228. Look..Billy..I love you but that flat out is NOT TRUE
there are MANY nuances attached to that statement...whether he KNEW or should have known etc...frankly he is FAR more exposed uncut than cut for many liabilities.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #228
240. and i love you, too...
but unless you got a link that is certainly debatable, imho, but thats just it... as you noted above i am no lawyer but i am in the tech industry and i remember discussing and reading about this issue a few years ago and that was the impression i got.

hopefully a few pros will help out with some more informed opinions & links, please ;->

:loveya:

peace
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #240
272. Read this article...it covers "search sites" and News sites of which
DU is one and specifically addresses the issue of editing without liability mid article


http://edition.cnn.com/2004/LAW/05/25/hilden.google/

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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #272
293. i was thinking something more in the legal realm and not from the M$MW...
a snip would be nice, too, but i know, i KNOW... we are ALL busy ;->

By contrast, the defamation liability risk of selection sites such as The Drudge Report -- that is, sites that offer collections of specially culled links to other sites -- remains uncertain.


and i didn't see my SPECIFIC concern on editorial policy addressed in that article, unless you gotta snip :shrug:

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #293
307. snip
Second, the immunity allows Google and other sites to edit their content at least a bit, without fearing liability. Prior to the federal law granting the immunity, sites were often afraid to edit what was posted there at all -- for fear of being deemed "editors" or "publishers" of the information, and therefore incurring liability.

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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #307
338. thank you, but that is from the same source and doesn't make it clear
i will do some reading later - after work - but i hope DU does what it's famous for and others with specific links and experience will add their 2 cents ;->

but, please don't take this request for discussion personally as i have been interested in this system i've recommended for years, and if, as you say, the law allows us to do what we do, then good, keep deleting, but voting on every post will also take care of the borderline stuff and, again imo, make du even a better board, as more diversity is enabled but also the cream can rise to the surface... but more importantly, in regards to the current brouhaha, this current policy of anything-goes definitely needs fix'n (i hope it's not an all or nothing decision as it is currently) as this incident bears out. fortunately this is a legit cause but what about the next one...

peace

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #338
352. The author is from Findlaw not CNN
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #352
364. gotcha, but the legal distinction still isn't made clear
for me anyways :hi:

peace
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #86
226. I don't think soliciting donations should be allowed at all
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:50 PM by amazona
...without a very high standard of proof. So-and-so Trusted Posters saying they know the person is not proof of a doggone thing. So-and-So Trusted Poster can be the most marvelous human being in the world and still be capable of being scammed. I've been scammed. Many members of my family have been scammed. Knowing someone in person is no proof against being scammed. Until Al Gore invented the internets (er, that's a weak joke in case you wondered), virtually everybody on earth who was scammed was scammed by someone they knew in person and very often by someone they thought loved them.




The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #226
252. it's certainly debatable
but you raise a good point that reminds me of who Uri Geller's favorite people to fool were... SCIENTIST, not only were they easy but very credible... he would never dare try it on a magician ;->

:hi:

peace
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12345 Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #226
313. Agreed. I don't think that this is the appropriate forum.
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GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
87. A couple of comments
I would first like to say that I have never been concerned that this was a scam. I haven't been here all that long, but I have followed the happenings since the election and I never have doubted Andy's integrity. I will be focusing all my energy on sending good and positive thoughts and prayers to Andy so he can keep his spirits up. He'll need them to get through the surgery.

My other comment is to the person that decided to start this. I hope Karma comes around and bites you in the ass real hard, shakes you around a bit and doesn't let go.
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shesemsmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
104. I feel exactly the same way
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
111. Amen.
What kind of person would have this much spite in their heart?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #87
113. Well said!
I feel the same.
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #87
184. I agree completely GardeningGal
Sending Andy extra love from Florida.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #87
303. GardeningGal
solidarity
hiley
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #87
502. The troll must be ecstatic
Edited on Tue May-10-05 06:23 PM by vanboggie
That's the sad part. I totally support Andy, will give again, and also think Skinner is handling this very intelligently.

The troll has turned a wonderful thing into a divisive thing - just like a true * Repug.

on edit: Please don't give the Troll the satisfaction.
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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
91. btw, it's HIPAA, not "HIPPA"
Long title - the Healthcare Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (1996). And we can thank Clinton & the congressional dems for this important privacy protection.

Thanks for the post, Skinner. I feel awful that Andy is being put through this nonsense.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #91
101. Link to the Privacy Protection in HIPAA
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM by Walt Starr
93 pages went into effect in 2002 and 2003:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/privrulepd.pdf

So those who could call hospitals and get information prior to the full implementation of the privacy protections in HIPAA would understandably be confused as to what are the current requirements.
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shesemsmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
100. Thanks Skinner
i await your further response
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
103. Good job Skinner.
Fair enough.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
105. DU'ers who have met Andy & call him a dear friend please post below:
These accusations are outrageous and I am spitting mad. Andy is a close friend and I have spent many happy days with him in person over the past few years, and recently, sad nights on the phone with him. I personally vouch for Andy. If you have met him and vouch for him, please reply to my post.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #105
110. Vouch
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #105
116. I also vouch for Andy. I've had him stay at my house a few times
and I trust him implicitly
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #116
234. staying at your house is not a vouch
The person who scammed me had stayed at my house many times over the years.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #234
237. I don't really think you can decide for someone else what
should or should not constitute a vouch. Their risk, their standards.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #237
305. yea you right
That seems reasonable.

However, the "vouch" might only seem to verify that the person exists and has a charming personality. I don't think anyone ever doubted that.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #234
257. you must've missed the part where I said I trust Andy implicitly.
don't question my trust for another person. You don't know me.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #257
310. you're right, I stand corrected NT
.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #234
443. Oh, give it up, Amazona. We KNOW you've been scammed --
you've told us repeatedly. We KNOW, we KNOW. You don't have to keep repeating it. Drop it already.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #443
535. all intelligent open-hearted people can be scammed
Only stupid, narrow, close-minded people are immune to being scammed. No, I won't give it up. The stakes are too high. We are talking life and death here.

My goal is to help Andy, to help the board, and to help others like him in the future. The only way to do that is to acknowledge that personal testimony -- Hey, ya'll, I met this dude and we hit it off great and he stayed at my house -- is not a substitute for proper vetting of all requests for money. No one wants to see a sick man harassed or investigated. Trouble-making trolls make trouble. Andy's information is already out there. If he can't document clearly where the money he solicited is going, he could be in a world of hurt. And that is the last thing a sick man needs.

Proper documentation when raising funds helps all and hurts none except the troll.
I see no advantage to anyone, least of all Andy, by dodging this issue.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72




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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #535
559. I'm one of those cynical assholes that has been in sales for 20 years
Edited on Tue May-10-05 10:03 PM by Kathy in Cambridge
and I trust him. I trust NO ONE. And I have a sixth sense about frauds/freepers. I haven't been fooled or cheated in about 15 years-yeah, it took about 5 years for me to get my chops.

On edit: ask anyone on DU who knows me about my stealth freeper sixth sense. And who's been tombstoned BECAUSE of this.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #105
121. I haven't met Andy,
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM by notsodumbhillbilly
but consider this post my vote of confidence in and support for him. I'm sickened to think of the added burden the accusation of scamming is placing on him when he already has all that he can handle emotionally.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #105
124. do we really need to start a tent meeting to vouch for Andy
because of one shit-stirring troll? I don't know Andy personally, but I've contributed to the cause of keeping Andy afloat in the past and intend to do so in the future. He's good people, anybody with half a brain can sense that. As infuriating as the bullshit being floated about Andy is, the only thing that really surprises me about it is that it took this long for something slimy to creep out of the woodwork and post it. It's almost as if the sense of accomplishment we got over doing a good deed for fellow DUer well deserving of our support was a catalyst. Hmm... :freak:
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #105
132. Me.
I can vouch for Andy. As can my family.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #132
200. Vouch.
Andy is a warrior. He got tied up with a warrior who turned out to be, well, shall we say, dysfunctional.

But, he said his peace, and went on.

I've met Andy. He's a red-headed teddy bear with fire in his belly to get clean elections.


Just thinking about who would want hundreds or thousands of DUers to think that they can't trust people who ask them for money -- who could that be???? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Either a personal vendetta, or a political one.

If DUers think they can never trust each other, who wins? Nobody we like.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #105
140. I'll vouch for him.
Yep. Woulda said it last week before I met him, but especially after the conference in Ohio this past Saturday, having spent some quality time with him - he is a sincere, wonderful human being.

He needs healing, not some sicko's accusations.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #105
147. I vouch for Andy
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM by Tinoire
I haven't met him personally but we spent several sleepless nights last year going over speeches he was giving re BlackBox Voting and I was honored that he asked me for input.


Andy is not a fraud.

Here's to you Andy and God speed to your recovery!

:toast:
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Debbi801 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #105
149. I can vouch for him 150%...
My husband and I had the honor of having him into our home and had dinner with him. This was last week when he came into Baltimore for pre-op at Hopkins.

I know my post count is not that high, but I can say that I have met very few people as decent as Andy.

Debbi
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #105
157. Vouch-I met him and Ted out in Seattle
they're wonderful human beings.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #105
174. I've had the man as a guest in my home more than once.
I've spoken to him on the phone since his diagnosis. I stand behind him 1 million percent. My only regret is that I didn't have the whole $50k to give him myself.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #105
188. I don't know Andy but I do personally know Flyarm who set up
Andy at John Hopkins in the first place. She is a wonderful woman, an earth angel really, who pulled strings to get him in there.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #105
199. Vouch!
:hug:
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #105
222. I do and will vouch for Andy and for
Anyone else called a "co-hoaxer" in this crap.
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #222
229. Christ, nobody called you a co-hoaxer
The OP didn't word it that well, but his/her point was that in the current situation, the admins aren't in a position to take *anyone's* "word for it." It's really not that unreasonable.

No one is saying they don't believe you--seriously, calm down.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #229
238. Well it sure read that way, no?
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #238
246. No, it didn't
That was obviously not the OP's intention.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #229
304. there were many posts and threads deleted
but from some that i read that most certainly was the charge.

fyi :hi:

peace
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sir_captain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #304
337. Neh. This was one specific post.
that used the term co-hoaxer.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #105
244. I unreservedly vouch for my beloved friend, Andy
We have met in person many times and I was with him the day he first experienced symptoms of what has turned out to be this horrible disease.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #244
340. HEDDA_FOIL!
Where have you been all this time?!

I am glad to see you hear and glad that you vouch for Andy. I didn't even know you knew him. I'm glad you were there for him that first day.

It's so good to see you.

:hug:
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #340
418. Hey Tinoire!
I'm still around. Trying to save the world from unverified electronic voting. Send me your email address again, kiddo. The one I had kept bouncing.
BIG hugs,
Joan
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #418
434. Will do!
And will even try to call you one of these days.

Take care and huge hug to you! It is SO good just to see your name again!

:loveya:
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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #105
263. He's not a close friend, but I've met him and we've talked on the phone.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:07 PM by brainshrub
Before he got sick, I wanted him to come to Asheville to give a speech on BBV.

I don't think Andy would be involved with a fraud like this.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #105
288. VOUCH, VOUCH, VOUCH -- 1000%!! (one-thousand percent) Nuff said.
:grr:
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #105
290. Met Andy
'n many other DUers in DC in January. Because of a time mix-up Andy 'n I were the first for a DU get 2gether for a couple of hours, so we got 2 know each other. I have spread Andy's story among DUers I know here in SoCal. We R all sending healing vibes from the 'new age' homeland.


I'm sorta relieved I some how missed the troll induced chaos.

A POX on your house nasty, mean, ugly troll.
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #105
391. I met him once.
He is one of the nicest and most dedicated people I've ever met.

If everyone went after what they believed in with as much passion and dedication as Andy does...this world would be a much better place.

:smoke:
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In_The_Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #105
515. I met Andy this past Saturday night - He's a wonderful person !
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
106. Skinner, you do so much good for so many people. Thanks.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
108. I like to do a Whipple on that friggin troll without anesthesia
everyone had no problems until this guy posted so I for one still believe this is for a great cause and will continue to believe. I will not let a troll change what has become a great thing done by this board.....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #112
127. Perhaps the Devil and his minions? n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #127
141. I dunno
but theior politics are slightly to the right of the Satan.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #112
129. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #129
142. ditto
tia :toast:

peace
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #112
155. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JabbatheHutt Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #112
219. Where? I'd love to see it.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:47 PM by JabbatheHutt
I'm really disgusted to know that somewhere out there, on the Net is bunch of wackjobs fucking around with Andy's life.

PM me, if you can - not sure if I have enough posts for PM access.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #219
243. What is this in response to?
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JabbatheHutt Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #243
356. I'd tell you, but...
mods would delete this post - but let's just say, the opposite of DU is watching the Andy threads and making their own snide comments. And it ain't FR.
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #356
394. Ahhh...
... The CUmstains
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
117. Skinner, good work; DUer's, we need to be united here
This is not something anyone wishes on others or, themselves. We have to be one family now, for Andy. I really don't know what went on here but, let's keep it together for him.

POSITIVE ENERGY GOING TO ANDY.....

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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #117
130. Exactly.
Andy will have the surgery ... all will go well.

The DU community will learn how to raise money effectively for good causes.

The progressive community will be shown to be the effective compassionate network that it is.

We will find a way that satisfies Skinner's needs (the site's needs) and the members' needs in terms of the ability to inform about a cause and to raise money for that cause.

Maybe we will need to get some expert advice, but we will do it.

Bless you all.

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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #130
176. Good points....
fund raising on DU will need ot be discussed after this dies down....

we need to protect DU/Skinner/et al and at the same time provide for some sort of "due dilligence" on the fund raising.

I think, under the circumstances, Skinner handled this well.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #176
210. Yep.
There is always a way to get things done (wonderful things done) in a way that keeps all safe and happy.

We need to get some legal advice about it.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #130
245. "effec tive compassionate network" indeed!!!!
That's the only reason some assholes want to disrupt DU and the progressive community!!!

I'm disgusted anyone would dare pull an evil stunt like this!!! :grr:
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #117
308. jojo54 agreed.
much love to Andy.
solidarity
hiley
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Merope215 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
119. Thanks.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM by Merope215
As a long-time lurker, this seems fair. For the record, I've never met Andy, but I donated and frankly, I don't even care how he spends the money. It's a gift. If he ends up having extra and wants to use my check to go to dinner, he can do so with my blessing.

That said, I (for what it's worth) never doubted him at all. I believe him, I believe in him, and I am completely behind him and the good people on this site who have been trying to help him out. Which includes you, Skinner - you're very good at what you do, and we appreciate it.

And to the asshole who started all this: you're a pretty poor excuse for a human being. That is all.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #119
154. My sentiments exactly. Thanks n/t
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #119
508. I agree
In fact, I was directed to DU from KOS because of the appeal there for Andy. I have felt bad because I have not been able to do more personally regarding the voting fraud that the Republicans are involved in across the country. If for no other reason than the time and dedication that Andy has put into this very serious threat to our democracy, I am honored to have the opportunity to send him whatever I can.

The troll only proves how threatened the Republicans are by those who work as Andy has to expose their evil. That Andy's plight led me to DU saddens me for his pain but I am grateful for finding DU.

The troll has only made me more determined to get the word of Andy's plight out to people so more can help.

Down with trolls!

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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
122. Well handled...............nt
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
125. I trust Andy and I trust Will Pitt who ain't stupid and proves
to be a good friend to Andy.

Thanks for the info, Skinner. You're doing the right thing for DU.
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
128. Thanks for staying on top of it Skinner
I have the utmost confidence in Andy and those working on his behalf.

The whole way the troll who posted the allegation originally phrased it had the reek of falsehood anyway. As I told him in that thread, an attorney from the hospital wouldn't just call a stranger out of the clear blue and say "X is a hoax." And we all know that if said stranger called the hospital to "confirm" they wouldn't give him any information anyway.

It was obvious that the troll was trolling.

That said, I think that the IP address of the troll and his ISP information should be provided to Andy who should consult with an attorney regarding a possible case for "Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress."
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
133. Thank you Skinner
Myself, I trust the words of people I've read here for years over obvious trolls. Fifty thousand dollars to someone like myself is much money, but, in reality what is fifty grand? It's chicken feed that's what.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
135. Well I'll Give Them This
Those people are very good at what they do. In mere minutes Mr. No More Swift Liar sowed seeds of discord, dissent & mistrust. Quite a lesson, because if it can get traction here, you can see why people in the general population will fall for dis-information.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #135
148. I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said:
" A lie can travel twice around the world while truth is still lacing up its boots."
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #148
311. Mark Twain
n/t
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
143. Thanks For The Thoughtful, Clear-Headed Response.
I know this will all work out. Something about the gleeful mean-spiritedness of Mr.NiceGuyDied made me not even consider his "information," and I also notice it is not in Kos as was promised.

Thanks skinner for your wonderful work on this site.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
144. personally, i don't CARE....
... about proof- i'm sad that our 'trust' in each other has eroded to such an extent-

i have no personal knowledge of Andy- and though my gift to his need was tiny (in comparison to others i'm sure) for me it was given in love, and in the desire that what i can scrape together will bring somthing good to someone who is in 'need'-

i CHOOSE to believe he is in need- my dad died of necrotizing pancreatitis, and it was an agonizing, 'out of the blue' blow to our family- (which all began with a 'simple' gall stone removal)- i wouldn't wish that kind of pain or suffering on even GWBush-

If, (and i don't believe it) it is NOT a case of a fellow man (or woman) in such dire need that they have to go to this extent to get what they need, then, may they find the relief for whatever it is they are searching so desperatly to find-

Did 'we' give freely, and with the hope that what we were doing was for the betterment of a friend in need? or have we become so enamored with our 'selves' that we want to 'get' something in return?

i have already 'recieved' back 100 fold from my pittiful gift- the affirmation that there ARE caring and 'other-centered' people left in this world- and many of them share the same political slant that i do-

no offense intended towards anyone- can we not look for the 'good' in this world, and attempt to 'trust' each other? or is everyone really 'out to get us'-

if that's the case- why bother living?

Blessings to you Andy- and thanks to my fellow 'earthlings' who still 'believe' in the hope that there is alot of 'good' left in this tired old world-

and thank you all for your gift of renewed 'hope' to me-

(i've been here awhile, i'm a sporadic, and illterate poster, but i've always seen this place as a 'good' corner of the net)
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #144
161. beautifully said! (nt)
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monarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #144
190. You expressed my thoughts exactly!
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #144
203. Exactly what I was trying to say earlier in this thread
We did GOOD! We felt good about doing good. We saw that we could move a mountain when push came to shove. We helped someone when they had troubles that were more pressing than our own.

As I said in an earlier post this week, I might struggle from week to week to keep my head above water, but the only thing that I was fighting to maintain was a lifestyle for myself. Andy is fighting for his very life. I believed that then and I believe that now.

Sometimes we need to take a step back from ourselves and see how we fit in the big scheme of things. I can't say that I will ever make a big difference in the course of our nation by the fact that I ever lived ... but Andy has and will again. He has already given much more than he has received from us.

One troll can NOT be allowed to have that much power of our collective minds as to turn a wonderful good deed to doubt with the postings on one thread.

Andy, if you are reading this ... be well dude and know that we have your back now and in the future. :hug:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #203
346. Well said!
Giving to Andy is a noble and worthy cause. And it's beyond sad that one lousy troll could attempt to tear it all apart like this. And how pathetic and empty to live in the kind of world that person lives in who would be evil enough to try and destroy the good will, generosity and kindness so many here have shown. No way would I ever want to live in the kind of world that troll lives in!

Sending Good Vibes to Andy. :grouphug:
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #144
249. well my trust was already broken and i do care
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:01 PM by amazona
I donated to the Bev address posted on this site back before the break and I don't really have it to throw away if it is not going to be used as described. Many people here are low income. We cannot afford to just run around trusting everybody who says trust me. Everybody on DU is not made of money. Our money must be used wisely.

People who don't care to have the money properly accounted for make it difficult for those of us who have to budget. If you don't care about how the money is spent, then you have opened a situation where many of us CAN'T give because we simply can't sure that the cause has been properly vetted.

Proof of serious illness and a treatment plan is easy to provide.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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kitkatrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #249
260. To be fair,
no one's making you donate. If you require proof, as someone said earlier, then the time to ask for it, is before you donate, not after. And if you don't want to spark a public brouhaha over it, then you can pm or email the people in charge. :shrug:
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #260
332. this is true
If you don't wanna give, don't give. However you need to consider this--

The public brouhaha was not sparked by the skeptics. It was sparked (apparently) by a jealous person who has competed with Andy in the past for fund-raising. Everybody -- everybody -- on this earth who is worth a damn and who has done anything in any good cause has someone who doesn't like you. Sometimes that someone is a private person and they just do the internet troll thing. Sometimes that person is in the federal government, or has the contacts to make a quiet complaint there, and then the federal investigators come around.

I do not know about you, but if I were in a position where I needed to raise funds on the internet, especially on a political website, I would damn sure provide a careful proof and accounting for my OWN safety. The proof isn't just to protect DUers who can give or not give as they like.

Providing proof and open accounting of where the funds are going protects the recipient of the funds.

I'm out a few bucks if I'm cheated in an online donation. But if a person who receives donations is accused of fraud, then they could be out a few months or a few years.


The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72


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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #249
317. It's simple, if you don't want to, don't donate
if you choose to donate, then do. It is called individual choice. I chose to donate and will do so again, in a heartbeat, if needed. Again, INDIVIDUAL choice.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #144
314. no gift was tiny thank you for caring so...
solidarity
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #144
342. Well said -- I'm with you!
I don't know Andy either, but I'd rather trust and have a chance to help someone than be suspicious and keep my stinkin' money.

Andy's situation has shown us how *good* people can be, and how POWERFUL DU can be -- how much we can pull together. Some people out there must not like it.

Screw them!
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
150. thank you, skinner, for ALL you do
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
158. Based on the appeal, I donated a little money and it gave me a
good feeling. I trust that everything works out OK.

As for the troll, there are monster assholes wherever you go, the internet, a baseball game, on the freeway, etc. Unfortunately it's part of life, they are the cause of the need to have police and jails.
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MsUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
167. Thanks Skinner: *hugs* and you always know what's best for DU. eom
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
170. Keep your eye on the ball. We done good!
We done damn good! Feel happy for what we've done for one of ours.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
194. Even though I've never met Andy personally, I trust him implicitly.
First of all, there are people I trust and respect that do know him personally and have attested to his character. Secondly, reading his posts and thank you notes over the last few months have convinced me that this is an honest gem of a human being. He is trouble now. I am proud to have been able to contribute something to assist him in a time of need. Get well soon Andy. God bless you Andy and thank you again for all you've done for us.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
195. So this is all due to one jackass?
I don't know Andy personally, but I *do* know that several DUers I trust do. This would have to be a ridiculously involved and complex hoax with a *lot* of people involved. I doubt that highly, and I'm comfortable that this is a real surgery for a sick person.

But, I understand Skinner/et. al's concerns, and that's cool.

This asshat who started all this is probably rolling on the floor in glee. :eyes:
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #195
208. Of course she is.
What's unfortunate, though, is the other posters who jumped the gun or piled on. I hope some of those people will post an apology, and I'm not talking about the one who already HAS.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #195
227. That's all it takes
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
216. Just talked to Andy...
everything's going to be fine, but this has really upset him. He doesn't need this bullshit right now, he's got to think about getting healed.

The sun will shine on this situation very very soon, and the bastard fucking cockroaches that question my friend's integrity will be well lit to be smashed by my heavy foot.


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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #216
220. thanks. Yes, I forgive quanda. But reading that this troll is interested
Edited on Tue May-10-05 01:50 PM by rumpel
in BBV material in particular, raises itself questions about his motives....


on edit

...but never mind, an idiot that can't be helped, stays an idiot
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #220
231. ya, i have no anomosity to qanda either n/t
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:29 PM by seabeyond
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #220
232. ya, i have no anomosity to qanda either n/t
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:30 PM by seabeyond
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #220
345. or 'her' motives
;)
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #345
357. mmhmmm..nt
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earthboundmisfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #216
323. I'm a pacifist, but I'd love to be the metaphorical can of Raid there.
What we'll show the vermin troll(s) is that their attempt FAILED - we, collectively & individually, are stronger than ever in our support for Andy and our heartfelt good wishes for his recovery. And we'll also show that we're even stronger - and more committed - as a COMMUNITY, in the face of such an attack as this!
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PittLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
224. Thank you Skinner ...
for DU and for your "even-handedness". Thank you fellow DUers for being so decent and kind. While I felt betrayed by Bev, I never thought twice about giving to Andy. It didn't occur to me to doubt, though I do not know him personally. Nothing has changed here. We are the same. Typical liberals, eh? Best of intentions, but can't help but get in our own way sometimes ;). Thank you to Beth and lala for all you've done, please be patient with us. This is a beautiful thing that has been done here, let's enjoy it and do our best to stay positive for Andy.
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
230. Why can't we have health care for all?
Because of asshat trolls. The only thing wrong with Christianity are the Christians. Same old shit.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #230
319. Ahem! I think that you mean Fristians
The 7th Fristian Commandment:

"Act Fristian, look Christian."

People who behave like this are not Christians and are NOT following the teachings of Christ. No Christian who follows the teachings of Christ would do this.

They are Fristians!!
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
241. My heartfelt message to the troll that started this
Screw you and the horse you rode in on...and when you are done, you can take that horse and milk it with your hero!
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
247. I do have one request, Skinner
Please, if you kept records after the name change in November then post a list of former DU names and what they were changed to. In the case of quanda, that person has been around a long time...those of us that have been reading DU since day one would like to be able to recognize the poster.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #247
253. I'm now qanda
I used to be pbl

I have requested that I be allowed to post a formal apology (still waiting to hear back). I really do feel horrible about the entire thing.
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #253
270. don't worry. Skinner said it all.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #253
274. No worries
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:10 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
But as PBL, I did grant you credibility based on your prior posting habits and my prior interpretations of your posts so that DOES matter to me. Thanks
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #253
278. Yes, you do need to apologize.
And I will accept.:-)
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #278
287. Thanks cat_girl
I'm usually not so quick to assume, but I guess my husband has a point when he tells me I'm not always right. :shrug:
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #253
351. You are not the first person at DU to make a mistake!
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:50 PM by Tinoire
As much as I love Andy, I have no problems with you airing your concerns.

DU has been ripped off before, as have individual DU posters.

Where were you when some little sh*t thief was crying to some of us about needing money because his electricity was going to be turned off? I sure could have used you then Qanda ;)

Not to worry.

I think Andy would forgive you for looking out for fellow DUers.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #351
373. Tinoire
I cannot tell you what your post meant to me. Thanks for being more than kind to me. As a person who has been scammed on more than one occasion, I have learned to wear my cynicism on my sleeve-- perhaps that's why I question the Bush administration at every turn. However, I really don't want to be the one to add to anyone's suffering. I"M SO SORRY ANDY!!!!!

I don't know what got into me, when I heard someone from the hospital say that it was all a hoax, my first reaction was to post and try to spread the message as fast as possible. It didn't even register to verify if I was actually calling Andy's doctor. I did call back to see if I could get more information, but they then referred me to the legal department and when Nancy from legal called me back she said the regulations wouldn't allow her to verify whether someone was or was not a patient. I even tried to delete my original post, but by then it was already locked.

Oh well, lesson learned. I'll still question things, especially when money is involved, but perhaps I'll just keep my mouth shut instead of creating a world of pain for those who are innocent.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #373
390. Live and learn :) it's all good
Edited on Tue May-10-05 03:34 PM by Tinoire
Besides, if you had been right and not said anything, everyone would be a little miffed if you had kept your concerns to yourself ;)

Better to stick out your neck for your friends and make a fool of yourself over a mistake than to keep quiet. Live and learn... As long as we grow, it's all good


Peace and :pals:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #253
383. Most us have made similar mistakes, qanda
I've alerted a oouple of times on posts and it turned out that I had just misread them. We can type faster than we can think sometimes. It's okay and hopefully this flap will help DU develop their policy on fundraising.
:)
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #383
397. Thank you sfexpat2000
I sent a pm to lala, but she was apparently too upset to receive anything I had to say. I had asked her to pass a message of apology to Andy for me and this was even before this thread was started by Skinner. I think there's still a moratorium on starting threads about this or I would offer a public apology, but please let Andy know how sorry I am that I have added to his pain.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #397
400. I sure will.
:hi:
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
251. All
In reading over my psychotic rants, I do feel that I owe this board an apology. I sort of really lost my cool, but that is no excuse for such screaming. I am going to take a nap. I do apologize if I insulted anyone. I am a bit too close to the situation and cannot think very clearly in responding. I do think we have waisted a great deal of time and energy on this and I think we should maybe all move on to other conversations until we can post our well wishes again with regard to this matter. That is just my opinion, but I think we all might need a break for a bit from this topic.

Again, I apologize for sounding and acting so nuts. It was totally inappropriate.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #251
259. If All Turns Out Well - We Should Turn This On The Freepers Heads
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:05 PM by mhr
By using this as an example of how disruptive they truly are.

We are dealing with people that have no intention of ever cooperating on anything.

These people need to be exposed for the fascists that they are.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #259
283. It's an example of evil
pure and simple evil, because only a truly vile and evil asshole would have started this crap.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #283
459. Mr. Starr....
... i gotta say i've always been abit in 'awe' of you- and so many other very well spoken, coherent, and knowledgeable posters here-


But, and (yeah,call me shoeshine girl-i'll pop one of my powerpills and become Underdog -or, as some have angrily called me 'underbitch')
i'm 100% behind Andy, and Skinner- and all who have worked so hard, and invested so much in seeking to help a fellow traveller in this harsh climate-

BUT, here's where most people call me crazy- .... and i guess i am..... i honestly feel sorry for the person who is so.... unhappy... unfulfilled...without compassion...????? that they needed to take something so 'good' and 'right' and 'Divine' (you don't need religion to see the kindness that has been shown here as beyond the ordinary)- and ruin it-

BUT, it is only ruined if 'we'choose to let it be-

The 'republicans' don't want 'welfare' for people (corporate personhood excluded), because they can't 'be positive' that every single person who recieves benefits 'deserves' them.

The notion of 'Welfare Queens' was thought up, and perputuated by people who worship thier bank accounts, and are searching for 'contentment' in places they can 'control'- i've BEEN on TANF and i did not meet one single person who was enduring the 'shame' or providing the mounds of paperwork 'proof', in order to demonstrate to the state's satisfaction the reality of thier destitution, because they wanted to 'get an easy ride'-

There will always be people who abuse the goodheartedness of others-goodhartedness that often stems not from an abundance, but from compassion born of experience- and THOSE are the folks we likely will never be able to 'help' but need it the most-

That 'troll' is someone who feels the need to hide, and destroy what he or she covets and desires to be a part of, but for some reason will not allow themselves to partake of or, be witness too-

Pitty the troll- what a terrible life they must have to find thier actions acceptable, or worth embracing-

We all have our shortcomings,- we all need each other to look beyond the garbage that exists in all of us, and find the good, and build on that- i'm a dreamer- but i'm not the only one-

Thank you ALL for being this community- and know 'troll' that there is 'room' for even the 'likes' of you at the table of community- (even if i have to give up my seat)- it's amazing what kindness can accomplish- especially in the face of rage, and anger- which is usually just a mask folks wear to cover thier longing and pain-

i'll get off the soapbox now-

i DO wish love to all- even the 'bad guys' (which i snuck into my prayers every time i was told to say them as a child, knowing there was some 'bad' in me too)

Blessings to you ANDY you are well loved, and in the hearts and minds of many-
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #459
472. "BUT, it is only ruined if 'we' choose to let it be"
This is exactly what I've been wanting to say. Thank you.
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Flying Dream Blues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #459
563. That was a beautiful post,
and brought tears to my eyes. Thank you!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #459
567. "Welfare queen" = "unqualified voter"
The 'republicans' don't want 'welfare' for people (corporate personhood excluded), because they can't 'be positive' that every single person who recieves benefits 'deserves' them.

And they don't want people to vote because they can't 'be positive' that every single person who votes 'is eligible' to do so.

A fine rant, illustrating how all this stuff is connected. Sure, you want safeguards in all of these cases to keep people from cheating, but there's more to Rethug and troll meanness than just advocating basic precautions.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #283
470. Agreed. And this will backfire on the troll, big time. n/t
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Debbi801 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #259
284. not if, WHEN.
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #251
261. Perfectly Understandable given the situation...
Which seems to have been caused by a professional disruptor from our dear friends at that other board we don't name here.

To them;

Nice, guys.

You pick on cancer patients.

What next? Burned kids in the Shriner's Hospital?
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #261
281. Interesting that I just got an email from them...
the latest BBV news, when I haven't heard from them in a while. The timing is certainly interesting.
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #281
286. i know! i got it, too. very odd. i unsubscribed, though.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #251
262. Whew!
So that means you're staying? Great.:-)
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #251
264. Get some rest, lala
Andy is in the best care right now, and there's going to be a wash of love towards him that's going to envelop him to get him through this.

You too; we're all thinking about you as well:)
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #251
266. Your loyalty is an admirable quality.
Hope the nap helps.
:hug:

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #251
269. Your reaction is understandable, go rest and look after yourself
we are here for you and Andy, don't worry. NO self-loathing piece of pond scum can harm the good works that have been done by you and the others that have done so much for Andy.
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #251
273. it's a very emotional situation
forgive yourself. take a nap.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #251
282. tucking you in, sweet dreams..................n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:20 PM
Original message
No problem....think it was
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:23 PM by KoKo01
your going over to that "other site" that got you worked up. I went over there once to see what it was about and it's enough to drive a sane person insane what they do over there. It's worse than Freeperville because it seems dedicated to distrupting us over here.

Stay away from "the site which will not be named" and remember all the great replies wishing Andy well here and those who immediatly alerted on the "Troll" and countered every statement.

There's tremendous support for Andy here. It isn't going away.

Peace!
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #251
322. to much stress lala
i still defend you and love you much.
difficult and very trying situation
we can work anything out, together.
all of DU together
solidarity
hiley
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brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #251
360. Rest well.
Thank you for your apology, lala.


This has been a painful episode for so many really wonderful DUers - and Skinner was wise to step in as he did. The troll had to be stopped and equilibrium restored here.


Let's all focus on the healing light - for Andy and ourselves.

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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #251
433. La, I do hope that you are feeling better
I totally understand your reaction, but we can't let the trolls have the satisfaction of doing that to us.

I honestly believe in the goodness of most people here, as represented by the outpouring of love and well wishes to Andy.

Everything will work out as it should. And if no one has told you lately, you're greatly appreciated and cared about, too!

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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #251
454. Thanks lala
I appreciate your comments. This is a hard situation for many. I appreciate what all have done for Andy and I appreciate Skinner allowing the fundraising here. This situation is hard.

I donated because I have met Andy and I trust him. It was easier for me.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
254. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SGBL Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
255. Is there a thread discussing the possibility of a hoax?
If so does anyone have a link?
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SGBL Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
265. *IF* it is fraud
and you sent money by Paypal you can contact Paypal claiming fraud and they may be able to get it back for you. I read a thread the other day saying Paypal was holding the funds so they should still be in the account. (and THIS is why Paypal holds funds - not to collect "interest". If someone cleans the paypal account out it's all gone, if it's held for long enough for someone to catch on to fraud it's still not all lost)

I would NOT do that though until it's 100% clear what the case is.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #265
271. It's not fraud, my friend.
A troll started the mess, it is now tombstoned.
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #265
276. we don't have any more reason to believe it's a fraud now
than we would have had a week ago. The "fraud" claim was made by a troll. Many DUers have come forward to express their support and Andy is apparently in the process of getting some sort of hard confirmation to Skinner.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #265
280. stop.right.now. (nt)
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #280
291. Yes, guys and gals, case closed. Wait for Skinner. Let's move on.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #265
285. please be considerate of Andy's friends
no more conjecture, ok?
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
275. I gave, and it was 'way out of character for me
Not that I am stingy, I just never give money to someone or some organization that I do not know beyond any doubt is legitimate. I, like many people here, am extremely skeptical. Nevertheless, the money was raised, and raised quickly. I think we could smell a rat if one existed, and it is pretty obvious there was no rat here.

It is good that we stepped up and helped a big-time advocate on our behalf.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
292. It is good to be wary, that is what makes us truth tellers.
I always feel a twinge when I donate to any cause, but that is normal.

If Andy was pulling a stunt, i don't think he would have posted his picture and other personal info on the web.

I am sure Andy will send us a picture of the stitches, just to ease the doubts of some.

goodboy, take your camera to JH and snap a picture of Andy's smiling face. I need that more than a picture of his stitches. I want him to live a long productive life. We have lost too many good people.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #292
327. Your wish is granted!
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:35 PM by troubleinwinter
This is a photo of our Andy and 'goodboy' taken this past weekend in Columbus, at an election reform event, where Andy gave a presentation!

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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #327
413. Which one is Andy?
Best wishes for Andy.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #413
435. the one on the right...(nt)
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #327
562. I won't be happy until I see a smiling "after" picture.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
294. There is one very good result of that trollthing:
Two hours ago, the hospital was trying to get me and Andy to give up and for Andy to just go back to Seattle.

Now, it looks like after being called so much, they are actually feeling protective of "their patient".

So, thank you, troll, for doing what I failed to accomplish this morning.
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MadAsHellNewYorker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #294
297. At least something good came from this whole horrible situation
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:19 PM by MadAsHellNewYorker
thanks for you hard work, btw :hi:
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #294
298. HA - being treated well is the best revenge
If you need anything, those of us in Maryland will be happy to help....
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #294
299. delicious irony, but why did they want you to give up
Surely the paperwork snafu isn't THAT horrible?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #299
324. Two reasons, maybe.
They're using to dealing with insurance companies, not people. And, maybe they felt a bit embarassed about not being able to find a check sitting in their own mailroom.

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #324
328. well, sending you back to Seattle would help them get over their
embarrassment but it wouldn't be so great for our Andy, now would it? Now that they've found the check, do they know what to do with it, or is it going to spend another day in limbo on a different desk? I can easily believe that the nonstandard payment does flummox them somewhat; I remember some friends who bought a couple of couches years ago and it took forever to complete the transaction because they wanted to pay for the furniture outright instead of buying it on time. If your payment method doesn't map to their payment method, all is confusion.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #328
341. Exactly. Andy has his check inhand and it looks like everything
is going to be all right. :)
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #341
347. well, there's only one thing I can say about that...
Yippee!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #347
516. I'd join you but am wiped out from the drama and stupidity
Edited on Tue May-10-05 07:21 PM by sfexpat2000
Hell, I'll join you anyway.

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:

:party:
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mikita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #294
300. now THIS makes me smile....
:hi:
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Misunderestimator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #294
302. Wow! That's really wonderful news!
Protective.... good. It must be the water-cooler conversation of the day at Johns Hopkins.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #294
309. ah hahahahaha oh steph i love you, that is just grand
look at you

thank you, troll,..........that is just a kick in the tush

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #294
318. A Silver Lining From Time-To-Time Is A Good Thing
Keep us up to date.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
295. Uh, if it WAS a hoax, why would he have turned down my offer to
send him a laptop computer, no strings attached after he lost his previous one?

Redstone
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #295
301. idjit, you probably offered him some crappy PC
and he really wanted a Mac. :7
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #301
312. funny you
have i told you yet today, you make me laugh
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #312
315. we all need a laugh today. Crappy morning.
Hope they can get Andy's surgery done soonest.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #301
331. Buzzzz! It WAS a Mac. Nice Powerbook, in fact.
good guess, though.

Redstone
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #331
336. perhaps he decided he
was Not Worthy of such a fine piece of equipment, humble soul that he is? :shrug:
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #336
362. Nah, his friend who I made the offer through said he had gotten
another one (maybe newer than the one I offered).

Hey, I don't really know Andy, but I suspect the actual probability of the situation being a hoax is about as close to zero as you can get.

Besides, who'd go through ththat much effort for a lousy fifty grand, especially given that it's have to be split up among so many "co-hoaxers?"

I can see one of those loser freepers being willing to jump through such despicable hoops for a couple thou, but not one of us.

Man, would I like to get my hands on the troll who started this whole business. Skinner, if you track the troll down, can I have five minutes alone with him please?

Please? Just five little minutes?

Redstone
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
306. STOP IT, STOP IT, STOP IT!!... STOP THE DAMN FIGHTING!
Can't everyone see what's going on here??? This one person who started this controvery was (probably) a freep, or leaning that way. What I'm deriving from the situation without seeing the original thread is, this is what this person wanted!!! For us to fight amongst each other and not unite for one of our own who is trying to fight his own personal battle.

No one except for one, is to blame here IMHO. The mods are doing their duty because they HAVE to. WE need to stop pointing fingers and say, o.k. it's out of our hands now, the truth will be told.

Sorry for the rant :rant: but I really find inner peace here on DU. Please, let's keep it that way, for all of our sakes.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #306
316. STOP THE DAMN FIGHTING!.........ok, i say meekly
i will stop. and only cause you told me too. well, and cause i am not fighting anyway.

i think people are feeling better.
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #316
329. Thank you seabeyond (sigh...)
Seabeyond is a very soothing name, btw.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #329
348. thank you
and a sigh, right there with you

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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #306
325. Unfortunately, freepers have learned how to earn themselves the benefit
of the doubt at DU...Cuban Liberal taught us that much.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #325
447. What happened to
Cuban Liberal?
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #447
505. hahaha
oh man. that was a good one.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
321. This is obviously the work of another rotten group of people...who, I hope
will rot in hell for all of their bad thoughts, and have nothing better to do than troll this site. Stay the course Andy!
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faithnotgreed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
333. this brings tears to my eyes to see DU like this.... its a microcosm of
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:56 PM by faithnotgreed
our country and our world
i wasnt able to contribute financially as i have longterm illness myself but i did read the andy threads. i sent him my prayers and best wishes and was waiting like so many others to hear that his surgery went well

then today to read all that has gone on.
i had just been thinking before i logged on today that there are so many people just ready to erupt because of what is going on in our country that i can almost understand anyones behavior because we are nearly becoming out of our minds

and this is just a sad but indicative example of what i had been thinking about earlier before reading about this firestorm

you are all such amazing loving gorgeous people and there is deep abiding love for all of you. may everyone find whatever they are searching for and in doing so i hope that you will take a very deep breath, think before you speak harshness or hate or jump to conclusions, and pray (or vibe) that andy gets through this very difficult time. it is partially because of each of you that he can have this gift of medical care so focus on the beautiful you do every day and not this temporary ugliness

we are all the stronger because of each other. dont let anything tear that apart

very much love and peace to everyone....

eta: thank you skinner for your constant diligence. i cant imagine how much work this forum can be but you and the others do amazing work and you dont shy away from the tough stuff
and also a thank you to lala rawraw. i have seen your posts here and your strong conviction. and when you felt you had said soemthing wrong you apologized and acknowledged you were worn down. you took a break and came back to post your regrets. that takes a very mature and caring person to speak as you have and i thank you for all of it. glad youre on our side!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:39 PM
Original message
The conservative trolls needed to do something to get off the
topic of all that's in the news these days. Republican mayor having sex with underage boys, a pro-life activisit engaging in beastiality, a southern baptist preacher kicking out Democrats that voted for Kerry, the memo proving Bush and Blair are fricking liars and most of all their president is a horse mastubator. Poor things.
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
334. PLEASE SKINNER, let us start another thread.
Edited on Tue May-10-05 02:41 PM by jojo54
It just took my broadband 12 seconds to fully load this thread.

Please, please, please???????

edit: And please don't lock it!!!!!
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
335. How about a new rule?
No soliciting.

I'm sorry if the guy is sick, but there are better ways to solicit charity than on a political message board.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #335
350. I can't think of a better way to get $50,000 in less than 2 weeks
than to ask his friends here.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #350
377. That's why it should be prohibited.
The potential for abuse.


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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #377
415. Bullshit.
What kind of a cold world would that be, if this "rule" of yours were generally applied?

So you would rather not help save somebody's life than expose yourself to the danger of being scammed for a measly 20 bucks??
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #377
580. I disagree. The heart of the Democratic Party is its compassion
for others... no matter what.

That is the MOST important thing that separates us from those in the Republican Party... at least from those in it who place money and power above the dignity of human beings!



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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #335
366. If people weren't allowed to help each other on here, this community...
wouldn't be worth as much, now would it? At least DU wouldn't mean as much to me, that's for sure.

Caring about other people, and helping, is what makes US different from THEM.

"No Soliciting" sounds an awful lot like THEM to me.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #335
374. How about a better rule?
If you don't want to donate, don't. It's pretty simple.
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smartvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #335
392. BETTER RULE:
I, for one, can't see this as a mistake because we raised money to try and save someone's life. This outweighs the fighting in my book.

However, a donation account at a bank or the hospital would have made any accusations moot.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #392
430. This is a great idea n/m
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #335
506. isn't that very question a form of solicitation?
nt
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Tom Yossarian Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #335
528. Real simple. If you don't want to give...
don't.

I've been around this board a long time and I've thrown a little out here and there and am very happy I tossed a little into the hat this time.

Karma is fair.

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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
344. I can't believe this........I can't believe how this group is reacting to
Andy's illness. I boggles my mind, that someone would be so devious to plant ANY DOUBT about this WHAT SO EVER. It seems DU is suffering from evil doers right along with America.

I was equally astounded at the outpouring of support and funds given to Andy's cause. In such a short time. That was so impressive, but this latest episode so dark and disturbing.

I can only hope that Andy, bless his heart, does not have to find out that DU came completely unglued today. Doesn't he have enough to worry about, wondering when the surgery will take place? Wondering if he will survive this cancer? And not just any cancer, Pancreatic Cancer!

I'm concerned about this DU community. I only come here to get the news now. So many threads locked, and for what reason???? We are left hanging and wondering....what in the world is going on? I know the moderators have a tough job. I can only imagine how tough. Geeze it just seems to me they WORK OVERTIME....at times. But I'm on the outside looking in. I don't have the big picture. We knew from the 'get go' the surgery was 50K. That was never in question, WHEN they had to have the full 50K was. Doubting Andy? Well I just can't believe you people! If the shoe fits WEAR IT!
:puke:
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #344
349. In all fairness, MOST of us still stand behind Andy...
It's only been one disrupter and a few doubters.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #344
355. Actually, DUers are standing up for Andy
Trolls started this shit and put Skinner into a bad situation.

Fucking evil bastards will deny it to high heaven like the lying asshole fuckwad scum they are, too.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #355
367. that's right. Anyone who messes with my friends, messes with me.
I stand shoulder to shoulder with all DUers who've supported Andy both monetarily, and with positive energy,thoughts and prayers.

We stand shoulder to shoulder, and we lift Andy up.

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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #367
368. okay, I know they're doing some really leading-edge medicine
at Johns Hopkins, but is "mosh pit" really part of Andy's treatment plan? :7
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #368
372. gets the endorphins going,....(nt)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #344
358. didnt even come unglued
i beg to differ bama, lol and a wink. no no that is not what i see. i dont see that at all. so many on this thread united. so many grew stronger and more wise and more open. this is a good thing. this an example of a negative manipulator not succeeding. andi can feel good, contributors can feel good, lala can feel good, skinner can feel good. there was a lot of good

i think this is what bothers me so with bushco, how they have tainted everything to darkness. but always, we are more than what another creates us as, we just have to have faith in ourselves. there is a higher in all. and there was a higher in this exercise, for this board

in my view, we passed, with flying colors.

i just cannot let this thread or subject go down in lower vibration. it is not waht my experience is in it.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #358
473. You are the best, seabeyond!
As always!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #344
359. You're yelling and puking on the wrong group of people. eom.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #359
378. Bama Becky does not mean ALL people at DU notice
Edited on Tue May-10-05 03:20 PM by hiley
this line please," If the shoe fits WEAR IT! " this statement means to me just to ones who poo on Andy.

MrsGrumpy, bama is just very upset like so many others.
We can work all of this out in time.
together because together we are strong.
peace...
solidarity
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #378
424. I think this is why we don't need to write posts such as this...it does
not present a united front. Sorry. There were maybe 3 people seriously questioning and one freeper troll. Not cause for this type of reaction IMO> :hi:
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #424
456. MrsGrumpy it is alright I was only trying
to keep us all together. I was not offended by your post and we are cool. The stress level is to far up the scale and DU is such a large and giving community. I am very thankful for DU and you, MrsGrumpy !:grouphug:
solidarity
hiley

These mid-wives are purported to have said they no longer look forward to births as.... "We don't know what's going to come out."
snip------

http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/extremedeformities.html
The pictures you will find on the bottom of the page are shocking, so please be warned and prepare yourself it you have not seen babies with these deformities before...



www.missionnotaccomplished.us - STOP THE ATROCITIES; INDICT AND PROSECUTE BU$H AND ALL THE OTHER WAR CRIMINALS

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Debbi801 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #344
371. I came unglued, but Never due to doubting Andy...
I came unglued thinking How Dare someone come into DU and post Lies like that about someone, especially when he is sick and cannot defend himself.

That is what makes me unglued. That and the fact that Andy needed to rely on all of our good will to be able to pay for life saving surgery.

Debbi
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
361. I love DU.
And have been wracking my conehead for a way to provide verification. We need to find a way to do that to avoid all this turmoil and hurt.

But DUers have been astonishing to Andy and to all of us involved for nearly two weeks of this [email protected] And that made me feel very happy. When Skinner gets the verification he needs, I hope you all can feel good about what we all just did together

And, Skinner, tell Grovelbot we still miss her. :)
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valis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
363. Didn't WillPitt post a PDF with the actual bill/diagnosis at some point?
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #363
376. Yes, I mentioned that too....
Edited on Tue May-10-05 03:18 PM by Lisa0825
but when I searched the archive, I didn't find it. Perhaps the mods thought it was inappropriate and deleted it.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #363
381. Yup
Don't have it anymore, unfortunately, and it wouldn't fly anyway. Skinner deleted it because it had personal info on Andy.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
365. this for me is like example after election, i believe stolen
and people so upset with kerry and dems, and i truly believe it was stolen. i knew all the excitement and work done by the party, and by kerry and edwards. i saw it in community, i listened to so many on the board. after elections, people were beating up everyone, and i was thinking, we did good. we did right. we won

was stolen

but that is on bush not me. not our group

we did right and the proof was in we won. they had to steal

well, we did good for andi. there was a group that kick ass for andi and got me to donate. aar did good, others did good for andi

this isnt never something to beat ourselves up about

it isnt about us

and personally, i think with the commotion this morning, du did good with that too
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
370. I've been away from the computer all day ...
and I just signed on to see how Andy was doing ...

I can't believe this! On top of all the crap the poor man has to deal with, he now has "troll" problems! WTF is wrong with people?!? Why would anyone cause trouble in a situation like this? What kind of a person gets off on this sh*t?!?!?!? :grr:

You know ... I'm not a personal friend of Andy's. I don't know him - I've never had any one-on-one communication with him. However, I don't believe for one second that this is a hoax. Call me crazy, but I just don't see how someone goes from dedicating their life to helping people by fighting for honest elections to perpetrating a fraud on them. :shrug:

Both my Mother and I sent donations to Andy. Compared to what many DUers gave, it wasn't a lot of money - but it was significant to us because, like many of you, we have our own financial problems at the moment. I don't regret it; I wish it could have been more ... but no matter how this turns out - and let me say again that I don't believe for one second that this is a hoax - I will NEVER stop helping people when I can! I'm not going to let one troll change who I am.

I know a lot of DUers are upset, but come on guys, think about it ... they want us to question the "good" in helping people when there's nothing in it for us. They want us to doubt ourselves and our ability to judge people. They want us to distrust everyone and keep to ourselves in our own isolated little world. They want us to be like them ... and to me, ending up like that would be a fate far worse than losing some money.

Andy ... take care of yourself, ignore all this crap and just concentrate on getting well. :hug:

BattyDem



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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
375. So I've been following DailyKos all afternoon