Remind me again as to why kids on school buses don't wear seatbelts?

[booksenkatz]

I read stories like this one, which occured a few hours ago in Missouri:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=5&u=/ap/20050509/ap_on_re_us/school_bus_accident

...and it makes me absolutely insane. My son will be riding a bus to first grade beginning next year (he attends private kindy, so I've been driving him this year). Surely there is a coherent argument against seatbelts on school buses, can anyone recall what that argument is? Because from where I am sitting right now, it makes no sense. Help me to understand.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. I remember hearing somewhere that it had to do with the possibility

of fire. and that the bus driver wouldn't be able to unlatch the seatbelts on a bus full of little ones.


Just one reason my kids don't ride the bus.

[booksenkatz]

5. That's weird for me personally, because my son has been able to

unlatch his seatbelt since he was 2! But he is a safety freak himself, and he knows better than to do it. I bet they could teach the kids how to pop the button, couldn't they?

Sheesh. I'm really torn about it, but my son is so desperately wanting to ride the bus with the "big kids!" Everyone around here rides the bus, the schools are very close, no busy roads, etc. But that certainly is no guarantee, is it? Scary stuff.

[many a good man]

2. Because school buses don't have seat belts

Easy!

[booksenkatz]

6. I know that, but I was wondering why they don't. NT

[sweetheart]

3. Probably the same reason

why republicans don't wear muzzles... hipocrisy.

[Walt Starr]

4. The reason is very simple and can be summed up in a single word

Cost.

[booksenkatz]

8. Oh, hell, Walt, I'm such a halfwit

I'm always wanting to spend money on kids and schools, and I forget that I'm pretty much alone... thanks for the reminder! LMAO
:crazy:

[ProfessorGAC]

11. Duh!

We all know the education prez is run by puppet masters who really don't want eduacted people and don't care about children. You might. They don't. I figured you knew that. Well, you probably did know it, just gave them a pinch more credit than you should have given them.
The Professor

[booksenkatz]

12. And to think that I used to have an anti-Bush website called

"Edjakated!"
:7

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Even Easier, Walt

$
The Professor

[SoCalDem]

22. It's cheaper to pay out the occasional lawsuit for a dead kid

than it would be to retrofit all the old buses still in service..or to mandate that all new ones have belts..

The powers-that-be are relying on the fact that buses are so big, that other drivers will steer clear of them, and the law of averages will "protect" the kids :puke:

[Atman]

7. They aren't effective on busses

Studies have been done on this many times. Seatbelts actually cause more injuries in busses than prevent them. Cars are small, and if a small crash hurls you just 5 feet, that is through the windshield. In a bus, if you're hurled 5 feet, you might bonk another kid pretty hard, you might smack your head on another seat, but you're unlikely to fly through a windshield. Also, there are indeed liablity issues. It there is an accident and the driver had to extricate 88 kids from their seats, and he only gets to 44 of them, half the parents are going to very, very upset. It sounds like common sense that busses also have seat belts, but it is not. Busses aren't cars.

[booksenkatz]

10. Interesting

I wonder if anyone has played around with redesigning the interior? There's so much incredible technology out there (my hubby works in future technology for the auto industry). But perhaps I'm just being too simplistic. Thanks for that info.

[Lars39]

14. Seats facing backwards?

Wasn't that shown to be safer on airplanes?
It all comes back to money.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. Any Link To That Data?

Really would like to see the physics behind such a study. Seatbelts weren't intended ONLY to keep you from flying out the windshield, but also out of popped open doors and passenger windows. In addition, bopping into the back of a seat could cause some massive compression injuries to small children, no?

I suspect a bias in a study such as the one you describe.
The Professor

[ashling]

15. Actually, some school busses do have them

At least some did. I don't remember where . . . may have been a trial . . .

My kids haven't ridden a schoolbus in ages, so I have lost track.

[bullimiami]

18. common sense says this is stupid

the only reason could be fire and the only kids that cant get themselves out of belts wouldnt be able to get themselves out of the bus even without them.

i have to suspect that whoever did that study had something to gain by the result.

[Atman]

23. The windows in busses pop out, there is an emergency door in back

If everyone is buckled in, hanging from the ceiling, who gets to the emergency door to open it?

It really isn't "stupid" when you think about it.

Also, consider that busses aren't prone to travelling at highway speeds. Sure, they DO, going on field trips and to sporting events. The vast majority of school bus travel is at 30-40 mph range. Again, careful consideration of ALL the variables would dispute your "stupidity" claim. Thanks for being so open-minded.

[icehenge]

29. I've been in a school bus that hit a large pickup truck

The bus was probably going ~25mph at the time.
There were about 15 people on the bus and it was early morning.
The school bus driver re-ended a truck that was turning left, there
was no turn lane. One guy went to the hospital for a minor checkup.
When the bus hit the truck I just flopped out of the seat onto the
ground and I wasn't hurt :-) I don't think a seat belt would
have been any help in that accident. The back of the seats
are nicely padded as I recall. At higher speeds it might be
helpful. Oh also since these Bus's are so high up in the air the
other vehicles just don't come close to where the kids sit in
a collision front/side/rear.

[paula777]

16. Here's what one site says about it ....

http://slate.msn.com/id/1002761/

...But the 1990s saw a series of injuries and deaths in which passengers were tossed around or ejected from the bus. Last year, the NTSB president called for a "re-examination" of the issue, and a NTSB report is due this summer. On Tuesday, USA Today said the report is "expected" to endorse seat belts, though the article doesn't identify its source. Meanwhile, a number of respected organizations--the national PTA, American Medical Association, American College of Emergency Physicians--have endorsed the idea of requiring belts. And in most European countries, school buses have both lap and shoulder belts.

The biggest objection to requiring seat belts is their cost. It can cost $1,100 to $1,600 per bus to add seat belts at the factory, and even more to retrofit a bus. The anti-seatbelt faction often adds that school buses are quite safe right now, with only an average of 11 passengers dying per year in crashes. Though it's rarely stated outright, the argument is that installing seat belts to save some portion of these 11 lives cannot justify the enormous cost.

What in fact would be the cost? Well, there are 440,000 school buses in America. Conservatively assuming that it costs $1,500 per bus to add seat belts, the total cost of mandating their use would be $660 million. Since the average school bus lasts 12 to 15 years, the program would cost between $44 million and $55 million per year. Assuming that seat belts would save all 11 students who die each year, then the program would cost roughly $4 million to $5 million per life saved. If seat belts save only some of the 11 students, then the cost per life would be even higher

[booksenkatz]

17. True, but is there a mention of the injuries?

I have to leave to run some errands, so I can't read your article at the moment, will have to do so later. The deaths are appalling, but I bet there are a whole bunch of injuries that could have been prevented if seat belts were used. (I'm totally pulling that out of my butt, it's just mommy instinct.)
;)

[bullimiami]

19. greedy sob bastards.

billions for war, no problem.
a few million to save some kids, and poor kids ride busses remember , for-fucking-get-it.

[paula777]

25. It is STUNNING how they put a price on a child ...

I think most Americans would gladly have their taxes go to retro-fitting busses with seat belts.... rather than bombing then fixing foreign countries. They should be ashamed - but thier not.

[XemaSab]

24. You have to wonder

what the cost of injury related lawsuits is from parents whose kids were killed or badly injured in accidents.

[losdiablosgato]

20. Newer models do have them

But there are a lot of old buses out there.

[Caoimhe]

21. Seatbelts on Buses

Notice in the news story that the two people killed were not INSIDE the school bus.

I think as a gut reaction to such a headline, we all jump to the conclusion that it's insane that we all wear seatbelts in our cars but not in school buses. Well, first of all, the way buses are designed, only a lap belt could be installed, and those have been known to cause more injury than they prevent in collisions.

Secondly, injuries to passengers (children) on school buses accounts for a very tiny amount of traffic related injuries. Buses are big, usually bright yellow, and for the most part aren't going at top speed. They stop at railroad crossings, etc. Statistically, bus wrecks are extremely rare, and injuries of school bus passengers even rarer.

To retrofit all of our nation's school buses would be a huge expense without any apparent benefit. Besides, a bus driver has enough to worry about, watching 30 or 40 kids of all ages while trying to drive. I guess you could add another person (adult) to make sure everyone is fastened properly. Then they could tour the bus every few minutes, or at other stops...to make sure the kids are all properly strapped in. How much would that cost?

I'd rather we spend the money on the schools that they are being driven to, myself. We have bigger fish to fry, such as.. why schools are cutting out music and art and sports are pay to play.

[LeftyMom]

26. Several issues

School busses are designed for compartmentalization, to keep kids is a realtively confining space in the seat in between thier seat and the seat in front of them, like eggs in and egg carton, which is why school bus seats are padded on both sides and have nice high backs. This tends to work well in frontal crashes, but not side impacts or roll-overs. Buses and thier passengers fare well in accidents because of the great weight of the bus, as well.

As a matter of logistics, it would be hard to make a seatbelt system that would work well for preschoolers and high schoolers, unless the shoulder belt was height adjustable or a booster that flipped out of the seat back for younger kids or something. The only other option would be lap belts, and they cause compression injuries to the abdomen and would probably be less safe than compartmentalization in some kinds of accidents.

Statisticly, a child is safer on a school bus than in a passenger car. With a child of that age, I'd still be more comfortable with a nice safe family car and a high quality child seat.

http://www.ncsbs.org/testimonies/seat_belt_background.htm

[leftofthedial]

27. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[proud patriot]

28. My son's bus has seatbelts

the small busses have them .

[NMMNG]

30. I recall hearing something about the fear that children

would be beating each other over the heads with the buckles....

[Cleita]

31. Our kids do. It's required.n/t