Being Gay is a lifestyle choice??? I'll tell you a lifestyle choice

[Voltaire]

Christianity okay? Let the fundies put that in their fucking pipe and smoke it for awhile. I am SO sick of them.

[Beelzebud]

1. I totally stumped a friend of mine on this one day.

He made the tired claim that gays chose to be that way.

So I asked him at what age he finally decided to be straight.

[Scruffbunny]

2. I asked my friends

when they decided to start breathing.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. Welcome to DU! :^D

[Duncan Grant]

6. Welcome to DU, Scruffbunny.

:hi:

[RetroLounge]

8. Scruffbunny!!!!

Welcome to DU!!!

RL

[Scruffbunny]

14. Keep it on the DL...

I'm at school and not supposed to be on, so shhhhh.

[RetroLounge]

16. Post edited...

:rofl:

RL

[jeff30997]

3. Lol. Great reply.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Hi and welcome. :^)

[swimmernsecretsea]

7. What age did you decide to make your eyes (blue, green, brown, grey,...)

They suppose it involves choice because the other option would be that we never chose it, and were subjected to unimaginable cruelty, prejudice, and persecution, and deprived of the right to love and live freely. That guilt thing is a real bitch, huh, Fundies?

[Goldmund]

9. My take on that is...

...that it's irrelevant if it's a choice or not.

So what even if it is a choice? We have the freedom of choice in this country, don't we?

Trying to insist on it not being a choice I think muddies the waters a little, and to them may sound like a tacit admission that there's something wrong with it.

[Beelzebud]

10. I honestly don't think there is a choice.

I am a straight man. There is no possibility of me suddenly deciding to be attracted to men.

There was never a choice on me being straight. It's just how I am.

So I assume, since gays are human just like me, they never had a choice either.

This is not to suggest at all that the choice would be wrong. It's just being honest with oneself.

[Goldmund]

12. Oh, fine, as a scientific argument

But not as a moralistic or political or ethical argument, as the Fristians are making it.

[Abelman]

13. Well, if its a choice

it makes it easier for people to disregard it as important. Why should we give homosexuals marriage rights if they CHOSE to be that way? To most who think this way, homosexuality is a choice in much the same way as it's a choice to be a smoker or a porn star or anything.

It is important that they realize homosexuals don't choose to be gay. It's just who they are and there is not reason they shouldn't be given the same respect and love as a heterosexual.

Allowing people to think it's a choice allows them to assign a qualitative or quantitative value to that choice as well. We all make choices and decisions on how we live our life every day, and we have been taught from youth that there are good and bad choices. In the back of some's heads, it may be too easy to convince them to take that jump from "choice" to "bad choice."

[Goldmund]

19. Good post.

I think it depends on where you are putting the onus of the argument. In the back of some's heads, it may be too easy to convince them to take that jump from "choice" to "bad choice." -- true, but analogously, it is just as easy to make the jump from "not a choice" to "a disease". A disease that can possibly be "cured". "These people didn't choose to live in sin; they were just unfortunately born that way. Maybe we can help them."

"Why should we give homosexuals marriage rights if they CHOSE to be that way" -- because there's nothing wrong with choosing to be that way.

"It's just who they are and there is not reason they shouldn't be given the same respect and love as a heterosexual." -- even if they chose to be "that way", they should still be given the same respect and love as a heterosexual -- since they did not make an inferior choice. I choose to eat shrimp and I should still be given the same respect and love as somebody who chooses to be a vegetarian. Or something.

Mind you, I do not believe that homosexuality is a choice. But even if I did, that wouldn't change the ethical equation in my head. And I think that endlessly arguing about whether it's a choice or not is giving up ground, needlessly.

[Abelman]

24. Good reply

The disease issue hadn't occurred to me.

I suppose I will look at the issue in terms of long-term, short-term goals. In the short-term, I hope we can reach a point in society where gays are treated as equals by everyone. In long term, I hope the fact that it is not a choice becomes a non-issue, because everyone knows it isn't.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. And of course, there is the aspect of fear.

The most vociferous homophobes tend to be those who are suppressing their own latent homosexuality. If if is not a choice, they fear, they must acknowledge that they are gay themselves, against all the teaching of their preachers and bibles, and that terrifies them. As long as it is a choice they can justify their suppressing themselves, with their "well, it's not really gay if I..." no matter what they do. So they live with the self hatred and fear.

[Abelman]

27. Another interesting viewpoint

One I should have thought of myself, as I'm writing a book with such a character in it.

But as the other poster said, the argument about it being a choice can cause us to lose ground on the rights issues. It's a very interesting topic of conversation and one I think I'll have to sit back and think about before I contribute more.

[mongo]

33. I think that you have brought up some excellent points

as far as - if it's not a choice, then it's a disease and maybe we can "cure" them.

But what I'd like to say - and I'm not trying to rock the boat here - it that sexuality is a continuum. No one is 100% straight or gay. I don't think that most gay people "choose" to be gay, it is who they are. But in more sexually free society, I think that we would find that people would tend to be bisexual. they may be attracted to one gender more than the other, but would be open to sexual encounters and even relationships with the other gender. I think that is what scares the fundies the most. Their own homosexual thoughts that they cannot understand or come to grips with.

[Scruffbunny]

17. Good point.

You win 10 points.

[Goldmund]

20. Thank you very much. How many points do I need for a carton of smokes?

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Technowitch]

11. I had a simpler and more heartfelt reply when asked this

I responded, "If my sexual orientation had been a choice, I'd have been heterosexual. For over twenty years, I tried to make that 'choice' and it didn't work. Finally, in my early 30s, I decided it was time to quit lying to myself, and to quit pretending to be somebody I wasn't."

-Technowitch

[Voltaire]

15. I mean, really

If it were a choice, given the way that gays, minorities, fill in the blank are treated by this particular society, who but a masochist would make that choice? I have to walk a fine line here because my wife is a Christian and a damned fine one I might say. But my hatred of the Fundies knows no bounds. If I could find a big boat to put them on and make sure that sumbitch never hit a port I would be one happy man.

[phylny]

28. Techno, my cousin said the same thing before he died of AIDS:

"Who would CHOOSE to be ostracized, ridiculed by society? Who would CHOOSE this?"

I think things were much worse at the time, back in the mid-80s. At least he had a family (primary and extended) who loved him and his partner unconditionally.

[Just Me]

18. I know gays who CHOOSE to be decent, responsible human beings.

I also know "Christians" who choose to be destructive, intolerant assholes.

:shrug:

Personally, whether or not homosexuality is genetic or involves choice is simply a non-issue to me. How we choose to treat one another and contribute to a more peaceful, productive and inclusive society is what matters.

[Withywindle]

21. Thank you!

Religion is MOST DEFINITELY a "lifestyle choice" and yet nobody has a problem with protecting religions from discrimination by law (at least in theory).


I don't believe being gay is a choice. Frankly makes no sense to think it would be for most, anymore than being straight is. The only people who have any degree of "choice" are those who are to some degree bisexual who might be able to play up one side and down the other if they're really really overly concerned with judgements and what other people think, which IMO is what your fundie "ex-gays" are.

[tjwash]

22. Now hold on, let us examine this "gay lifestyle choice" for a moment...

...And please read before you respond.

Who are the most rabid homophobic people? One can make an argument that the most bigoted gay bashers that there are, i.e. the Robertsons, and Falwells of the world, and the most rabid of their followers, are actually gay themselves.

These are people that pushed themselves into the closet, and through sheer self-ignorance, and brain washing by the religious right, believe that everyone actually shares the attraction to the same sex that they do. To them it IS a choice. They choose every day to deny who they really are, and use that as their basis for the denial, hatred, and self loathing that manifests itself as the bigotry that comes out.

What to do about it now, that is the question...

[Voltaire]

23. There certainly are a lot of right-wing, self-hating gays aren't there

The list is long and infamous.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. Well put. nt

[Anthropologist]

29. I have a friend...

I have a friend who for some blasted reason thinks that gays/lesbians "choose" to be the way they are. Then the next phrase he said, totally floored me with it's mild bigotry, "Hey at least they can eliminate themselves from the gene pool." WTF?

Every siren in the back of my head was just going off in outrage and all I wanted to do was scream bloody murder about it. I admit his ex-girlfriend from high school realized she's a lesbian and he probably thinks she "choose" to be this way. I have a bi-sexual friend, and he probably assumes she "choose" to be who she is.

In this conversation I tried explaining homosexuality in terms of genetics and how people are just wired that way until he cut me off and then tried using "serial rapist" as an example to back up his argument. The whole thing was total BS because I slandered back in regards to comparing gays and lesbians to child rapist, are two totally different situations.

I explained that serial rapist were either abused, or it were low socio-economic situations, or just mere hatred towards women. His idea to gays and lesbians choosing to be the way they are to rapist was totally bunk. It not just angers me, and leaves me totally appalled.

But then again this is a "comic-book" type of guy, who rarely reads hard core literature, has absolutely no college education, and identifies himself with the working class. He refused to hear my argument. A part of me can't believe I've been friends with him since high school, it's like he's gotten more conservative since I've aged (I'm 22). I was just totally shocked to hear him say what he did. :mad:

How the heck do I deal with such a situation? It's funny I'm becoming more liberal as I've grown older and he's just grown more conservative. But at least I get myself to the ballot box, and he just doesn't even bother. Kind of tells you the type of closed off person that he is.

[Anthropologist]

30. Made a mistake.

"I slandered back in regards to comparing gays and lesbians to child rapist, are two totally different situations..."

I made a bit of a mistake there, what I meant to write was serial rapist. My apologies.

[Fire Walk With Me]

31. It's certainly a great way to get people to burn up energy better spent

upon Bolton, WMD lies, DeLay, the Dominionists, etc.

Weapons of Mass Distraction.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Marriage and kids are "lifestyle choices" subsidized by taxpayers.

People choose to get married & have kids which result in taxbreaks, free schooling, free medical care, etc.

I don't mind paying for all that, civilization has a price, but I loathe the hypocrisy of the RW'rs who whine about having to pay for other civilizing influences like libraries, museums, etc.

Not to mention the government subsidies of corporations who make bad choices.