Country Is DEAD - Went To Lunch With Coworkers - NOBODY Knew KENT STATE!!!

[matcom]

our country is mentally dead.

4 of us go out for lunch. 3 of us are in our 30's, one is in his late 40's

small talk....

Me: Well this is the anniversary of Kent State
Friend #1: "Anniversary of WHAT"?
Me: Kent State
Friend #2: "Kent State"?
Me: You know, the SHOOTINGS at Kent State?
Friend #1: "What are you talking about"?
Me: Anti-war protests, Nixon calling out the National Guard, etc...
Friend #2: "Never heard of it"
Me: You are KIDDING RIGHT?
Friend #1: "I haven't heard about it either. Its not in the history books."
Me: OF COURSE IT IS! You are the same age as me and you NEVER KNEW ABOUT KENT STATE??????
Friend #1: "I know NOTHING about it! My wife is a school teacher (English) i'll call her cell phone and ask HER if she has heard of it"

he calls wife (granted, she is a YOUNG 26 but still....)

Friend #1: "***** says she has never heard of Kent State either"
Friend #4 THIS guy SHOULD be old enough to remember "I don't recall anything you are talking about but i'll 'look it up' when we get back to the office"

Me: You have to be KIDDING ME!

i'm done. i am ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DONE!

[ET Awful]

1. Maybe if you'd mentioned the song it would've jogged their noodles

a bit?

[Stanchetalarooni]

38. "Doin' the Shiavo Shuffle"

I'll bet they remember that one for a long time.
The kids and grandkids will dance it at all the baptisms, first communions, bar mitzvas, weddings, funerals, birthdays, aniversarys.
Commemorative cds will be passed from generation to generation.

[hector459]

39. That's why the American "sheeple" can vote for Republicans like Bush

and DeLay.

I hope they had enough interest to go to the Internet to find out about the Kent State. But you damn sure know that they know about Kerry's testimony before the Congress...not from reading it but from the Swiftboaters' attacks.

[Hosnon]

98. 23 Here and I know tons about it - Anyone see the Family Guy

where Peter says: "Yea I remember college, we had the national guard come out and shoot a bunch of people."

Gf did not get why I thought it was funny because she had never heard of Kent State...of course, she also gets mad at me for not "just supporting the president"...

Edit: Oops, thought I was replying to the original past...

[spooked911]

2. Weird-- I'm in my early forties and know about it well.

It's either because I am very politically aware or because I used to listen to a lot of Neil Young.;-)

[MissB]

3. Who the hell do you work with, exactly?

Brain-dead co-workers, at least. Do they at least know who is president?

[salvorhardin]

4. Haven't they ever listened to Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young's Ohio!?

Didn't they ever wonder what the lyrics were about?

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'.
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it.
Soldiers are gunning us down.
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her and
Found her dead on the ground?
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'.
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drummin'.

[wildflower]

31. A lot of music is just a catchy tune to people; they don't understand...

the words, they just like the song. Even if they can sing every word, they may not understand what those words means or refer to. I think "American Pie" is another good example of this.

-wildflower

[salvorhardin]

53. I know...

but, damn, I would think that something like this would be etched into popular consciousness. The song should make sure of that. *sigh*

[blondeatlast]

102. Just witness the use of "American Woman" and "For What It's Worth" in

TV commercials.

The first time I heard "AW" for that jeans company I nearly gagged. My husband, who is originally from India, was puzzled by my reaction. When I explained it to him, he couldn't believe they'd use it in a commercial.

[Sparkman]

79. Another CSN&Y song, Find the cost of Freedom...

Find the cost of freedom,
Buried in the ground.
Mother Earth will swallow you,
Lay your Body down.

BOTH are on 4 Way Street

[LizW]

119. I love Find the Cost of Freedom

Especially the version on "So Far". It has beautiful guitar accompaniment, except for the last repetition, which is a capella.

I read once that it was recorded in about fifteen minutes the same day they did "Ohio". They recorded it twice through, once with vocals and Stills on guitar, and then again with just Stills playing a second guitar part over the first recording.

[SouthernDem2004]

5. But Nixon did not call out the Guard. Gov. Rhodes did...

[matcom]

8. with Nixon's approval

[SouthernDem2004]

27. What makes you say that?

[Sparkman]

71. Nixon had machine guns in the white house when 150K protested outside

[Lilith Velkor]

90. Bush has 'em there all the time now

We been done for quite awhile.

[MuseRider]

6. This is why

we have what we have in our government offices. I wonder if anyone is even aware of the crimes committed by the likes of Norquist or Ollie North to name just two. Sickens me too. Can you even imagine how blissful their clueless lives are and how stunned they will be and how hard the reality is going to be for them when it hits?

[bunkerbuster1]

30. Also why the Shit Floaters were effective

People who were around at the time, but young, didn't absorb much, and they are now easily influenced by revisionists.

Kent State was a major event in my home; I was 12 at the time. I suspect my experience was not typical.

[MuseRider]

57. I was 16 and I remember

it well and how it affected a lot of us. Loss of innocence for a lot of us but even then with the war going on and Nixon being who he was there were still a lot of clueless kids.

[bloom]

7. Democracy Now has a segment today

at the end of the program. It's a good one. :cry:

I scannned a few news highlights of MSM shows - they didn't appear to be mentioning it.


As someone in my 40s - I barely remember it - I know of more through songs than anything else - probably. OHIO.

It is important that people know.

[KharmaTrain]

9. The Silence Is Madening

When I discuss the Viet Nam era, it's like "tell me another war story, gramps"...how I was with my father and his WWII stories. Anyone under 40...I'll say 45 really didn't feel all the impacts of this time and how it affected our lives and culture.

In many ways this country is in suspended 1966...when we felt Vietnam was a waste, but were being told it was being won and the protests were still few and unorganized.

Last night I asked my son if he knew what the date was...and he worked it to the Cambodian invasion and then to Kent State. I was proud. At least someone paid attention in history in public schools...and kudos for the teachers for teaching it.

[undergroundpanther]

51. Hell

I'm 39,I know aout Kent State.

I went to visit an ex boyfreind in Ohio.
His dad was a professor at Kent State..He saw the whole incident in person.. and he told me all about it,he was amazed I knew what happened and I had asked him about it..We took a trip to his campus,I asked him questions..At Kent, he told the story as he walked me to the places of the main events.As I went to the spots where the students fell I put flowers there for the heros who died with flowers in thier hair..I was a kid back then,in 1970, 5 years old.. But I knew about it,my sisters being the hippies they were were upset, and I asked about Kent state in my school,they didn't say much.But for me it was all so very sad, scary and all of it made me very wary of any state using power in protests to this day..I used to have a picture of the kid in the sweater cramming flowers into the barrels of military police guns,the police were in riot gear...
For people who don't know...

http://www.may41970.com/

[KharmaTrain]

82. Knowing Vs. Feeling It

I'm not doubting your strong feelings as to what happened and your special insight surely makes it even stronger.

There is a difference for those of us, I'm 50 and was in high school at the time, who feared the war...thought this invasion meant an escalation in the slaughter and the draft and how repressive the state had gotten in supressing our very civil rights.

While it's valuable to remember the day, what seems to get lost, and this is by no one's fault but time, is what that demonstration was about that day and the strife that led up to it.

[KaliTracy]

10. if it weren't for the song, who would know? I think Neil Young actually

got it on the airwaves in Record time... I happen to Live in Ohio, so know about it (I'll be 40 in July) -- the person over 40 should Definitely know about it!

Send them all this LINK... It tells about the song, (kind of interprets many of the lines) and has pictures of that day.

http://www.thrasherswheat.org/fot/ohio.htm

[ET Awful]

48. Neil Young wrote the song after seeing the photos in Life Magazine

Life was HUGE at the time and a very large readership. Anyone who saw Life knew what happened.

[KaliTracy]

70. Qualification -- Who would remember (given our media's propensity

top gloss things over...) The song placed it on the Pulse of America -- which is what he intended - for it not to be forgotten.

I agree -- it was written up in and got huge coverage. But we have a history (or rather, media has a history) of not bringing information -- relevant information -- out to the forefront.

[KamaAina]

78. Note that Neil is Canadian

it took a Canadian to place Kent State on "the Pulse of America", even then.

[LizW]

120. I distinctly remember the Life coverage

There were almost full page photos of each of the victims.

[Blue Gardener]

145. I miss that magazine

Now would be a great time for it to make a comeback. Full page pictures of the Iraqi war dead might make one or two people see the light.

[Abelman]

11. I know

and I'm in my early twenties. Of course, it wasn't taught to me in school. Education is in such a dismal state that they try to cram history into two years much of the time. We never got past World War II.

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Right

Unless you do your own research and everything you wouldn't know about it. I don't remember reading about it in US History class.

[yvr girl]

12. I don't think I remember it first-hand

Although, I am old enough. I certainly do know about it though. Ask them if they know about VE. It's the 60th anniversary this week.

[newportdadde]

13. I bet they can tell you all the last few finalists are on American Idol

and I'd also bet they can list off all Survivor winners since the show started.

[ihaveaquestion]

14. I made my kids radicals...

by telling them about all the things they never heard in school while they were growing up.

Vietnam
Kent State
Bombings in Cambodia
Watergate

They're both over 20 now and I tell them about...

The Patriot Act
No WMDs in Iraq
Impending Military Draft
Prisoner abuse in Guantanamo and Abu Grhaib

Etc, etc...

[Sanity Claws]

15. The one in his 40s definitely should have known about it

He is an absolute idiot.
The ones in their 30s -- well, I'm not surprised that they don't know. It happened over 30 years ago. They were probably not even born yet. I'm sure they never learned about it in school, either. High school history texts are sanitized -- nothing that could be considered critical of the government is allowed in.
It's a crying shame.

[proud patriot]

16. That's it , I'm making a sign

:grr: my neighborhood shall be reminded

[mopaul]

17. those who ignore history...eh, you know the rest....n/t

[UCLA Dem]

24. A fine example of why the repukes are still in power;no one pays attention

[FreedomAngel82]

45. And also

they rewrite history.

[whistle]

18. Invasion of the body snatchers, they may look like your friends...

...relatives and co-workers, but they have no memories and show no emotions

[UCLA Dem]

19. Crazy. I'm only 22 and I know perfectly well what you're talking about.

[BeyondThePale]

20. Tell them to check out this URL:

http://www.may4.org/4.html

[Sparkman]

65. Righteous Site - Includes Jackson State 2 students shot

[Patiod]

21. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here

I'm 44, and my history education cut off at the end of WWII with "we won"

Never learned about Yalta, beginnings of Cold War, Alger Hiss, NOTHING. Cold War/McCarthy era is a BIG blank spot in my education.

There was History (WWII until V-J day) and then "current events", which in my case was Vietnam. I was only 12-13 at the time, but my awareness was heightened because I had an older draft-eligible brother who drew are REALLY low number. My peers who were the oldest in the family were not really that tuned into Vietnam news or protest news.

So, if your co-worker is under 40, he didn't experience it, and chances are really good that Vietnam era occupies the same place in his mind that the Cold War did in mine. And if he's age 40-48, he probably didn't pay a lot of attention unless he had a draft-eligible older brother.

Face it Matcom, not only is the country going to hell in a lot of ways, but you and I are just getting to be old fogies as well

[stellanoir]

22. there has always been a percentage of the population

who are totally oblivious and easily distracted by "bread & circuses" but it does seem to be irregularly disproportionately high in this culture right now and is admittedly very frustrating.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

64. What with that there new-fangled Cable TV and all

circuses are much more entertaining than they used to be...

Can you blame a guy?

[Syncronaut Seven]

23. I remember Kent State & I'm 43

We were bombing Cambodia, trying to cut supply lines to the VC. The bombing was highly illegal, having flatly been denied permission by congress. Here are the names of those who died at Kent State, so that they may not be forgotten:


Alison Krause

Jeffery Miller

Sandra Scheuer

William Schroeder

There were other campus shootings during this period but the names and particulars are a footnote to history, perhaps because those victims were black.

God bless America.

[bloom]

44. While I remember it

and have seen the photos and all - I was too young at the time to really appreciate the magnitude...

Apparently there is a new documentary out that Democracy Now showed a clip of. It shows the governor being an asshole, it has interviews of the people who were shooting and what that is like for them as well as the students - now as adults looking back.

Definitely recommended - even for people who remember and esp. for those who don't.
-------

Four Dead in Ohio: 35th Anniversary of Kent State Shootings

On May 4th, 1970 - 35 years ago today - National Guardsmen opened fire on a crowd of unarmed students at Kent State University. Four students were killed and nine others wounded. We commemorate the 35th anniversary by airing an excerpt of the documentary, "Kent State: The Day the War Came Home" that includes interview with students and National Guardsmen who were there.

http://www.democracynow.org/

[KansDem]

91. Thanks for posting their names...

I often wonder what they would be doing now, or anyone for that matter who dies before their time, had they lived...

"Lest we forget..."

on edit:
Here are the names of those wounded:
Alan Canfora
John Cleary
Thomas Mark Grace
Dean Kahler
Joseph Lewis
Donald MacKenzie
James Dennis Russell
Robert Stamps
Douglas Wrentmore

[punpirate]

25. Yup... quite extraordinary...

... but not unexpected. "Lost history," Robert Parry calls it.

Ronald Reagan was, politically, one of the most mean-spirited people on the planet, but now he's a saint. Richard Nixon was the biggest liar in politics (well, until Bush, Jr., arrived), but his reputation has been revived as a "great statesman."

"Those who control the past, control the future; those who control the future, control the present; those who control the present, control the past."

[anarchy1999]

63. Hi there Sweetheart! Who can your quote be attributed to?

It's beautiful.

Where've you been. I so seldom see you post and on such rare occasions. I miss your wisdom and wit.

[punpirate]

69. George Orwell...

... it was the motto of INGSOC in 1984.

I've been around--probably too much for my own good. :) Not getting as much done as I should.

Cheers, hope things are going well.

[anarchy1999]

76. I should have known, it sounded so familiar. Cheers back at you.

Things are going. Well? Who's to say?

Next time you are in an area close please let us know.

[Charon]

149. Liars

Dont forget LBJ, Gulf of Tonkin resolution.

[Bozita]

26. The really intense Repug efforts at rewriting history begins with the Viet

...Nam era.

I don't think the Kent State massacre is recognized as having occurred.

[formerrepuke]

28. Horrifying that people don't know.. Since where I live it's local

history- it's expected that people are more familiar with this event.. but I wouldn't be surprised if the same cluelessness abounds.

[GalleryGod]

29. Tin soldiers and NIX-on comin'

We're finally on our own....this SSummer I hear they're comin'
(after us! Sound familiar?)

How could the "pampers crowd" know about Kent State massacare?
It was the first time american militia killed Americans, on our soil since the Civil War.

Books are = wiped clean!



FWIW...25 years after the fact it is proven the Students didn't torch the ROTC building after all...it was a MIHOP Operation from sstart to finish!


:rant:

[noamnety]

124. links please!

I found a bit on a detective telling the camera crews not to pack up yet, there's still going to be a fire, and a bit of questioning whether it was activists or agents ... what do you have?

[ngGale]

144. The day America killed her own children...

should have been on TV all day long. They are still talking about the Runaway Bride.:puke:

[Walt Starr]

32. Email them these pics

[ohio_liberal]

42. And if you ever get a chance, check it out

The memorial to the dead students has NEVER been finished.

[Walt Starr]

62. Yup

[Xithras]

33. Most people don't pay much attention in history

History and math are the two classes most likely to be skipped by high schoolers because they're "boring". In a society that emphasizes immediate gratification, is it really so suprising that people don't care about it?

Keep this in perspective. For most of us 30 somethings and everyone younger, Kent State is a page out of a history book, tucked in between the Industrial Revolution and the Civil Rights Movement. In my high school history book, Kent State was a one paragraph sidebar stuck on one of the four pages devoted to the Vietnam War and its resistance movement. Unless they enjoyed history, it probably had little relevance to them in High School. Personally, I didn't become well versed in the events at Kent State until I got into college. Since the majority of people in this country never went to college, it's somewhat understandable that most younger people aren't familiar with it.

[donsu]

34. the education coup d'etat by the criminal bushgang went by & nobody

noticed until it was too late.

the bushgang owns education

americans are ignorant - made that way on purpose.

we need to start our own schools, staffed with 'real' teachers, teaching 'real' history, english, math, etc., etc.. 'real' teachers who consider each child entrusted to their care.

and we have to devise a way to teach americans the things they were forbidden to know.

[flamingyouth]

35. What's sad is that this doesn't surprise me one bit

I work with a woman in her early 40s who once told me that "Pearl Harbor was when we dropped the nuclear bomb on China."

Now, I know that history is still being taught in schools because I had to take it. People seem to care more about who's on American Idol than their own country's history. Disgusting.

[ohio_liberal]

36. Unfortunately, this is not surprising

I live about an hour away from Kent State and you would think everyone would know about this or be taught it in schools. Not so. Most of the schools barely even touch on the Vietnam conflict or what it did to this country.

[H2O Man]

47. It was just a bad dream

Now go back to sleep, America.

[demnan]

37. I remember it so well

If I could draw I would draw the young woman's face of horror when she saw her friend dead that day.



It still brings tears to my eyes.

Tell your co-workers to go here: http://www.may4.org/index.html

[Bozita]

55. That face is burned in my memory along with the burning, naked Vietnamese

... girl.

Those photos still appear frequently in today's media. They never fail to give me a chill.

[Ezlivin]

129. Six Degrees of Kent State

My wife dated the brother of the young man (Jeff Miller) lying on the ground.

There is no possible way I could ever forget Kent State.

[MrsCheaplaugh]

135. This photo won a Pulitzer Prize, I believe

Lovely cats you have, too.

[anarchy1999]

40. That has to go down as in the top ten of nightmare lunches

with co-workers. How in heaven's name did you ever maintain your cool? Simply Unbelievable.

Yes, dear Matcom, this country is brain dead. Turn off life support and get out of the way.

"i'm done. i am ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DONE!"

It is easy to understand your sentiment.

[Sparkman]

43. 2 Women 2 men, 9 wounded Names listed

Allison Krause: shot thru the arm & chest 350 ft from army's men
Bill Schroeder: shot in the back 400 ft away from army's men
Jeff Miller: shot thru the head 275 ft. away from the army's men
Sandy Scheuer: shot thru throat 400 ft away from the army's men

67 shots fired, 13 students hit, with M1 high powered military rifles.

These Kent Students were wounded and survived:
Alan Confora, John Cleary, Tom Grace, Dean Kahler, Joe Lewis, Scott Mackenzie, Jim Russell, Robby Stamps, and Doug Wrentmore.

58,000 U.S. troops killed in S.E. Asia, MILLIONS of Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians were killed by the U.S. military, never having provoked or attacked the U.S.

The later exposed false claim that a U.S. military boat was shot at,
the "Tonkin Gulf Incident", was the given reason for the onslaught of bombing S. Vietnam.
Ring any bells....

[ohio_liberal]

50. And one of the dead was an ROTC student

Just a bystander.

[Sparkman]

56. Bill Schroeder ROTC, military science and Bus. Admin. sho in the back M1

[Goldmund]

46. Dude,

we did that in history classes in Serbia when I was a kid.

[Warpy]

49. They don't teach recent history in schools

They barely taught WWII back in the 60s, and didn't touch the Korean War or the McCarthy hearings or anything else. Vietnam was gearing up and they didn't touch that one. I'm not a bit surprised that the recipients of the major portion of dumbing down in the schools haven't heard of Kent State; they barely know the country fought a war in Vietnam and have no clue why.

[Lorien]

80. It's not just history

I talked to one person recently who had never heard of Alexander Dumas. Even worse, when I introduce people to my cats, Oberon and Puck, they nearly always say "what weird names-like hockey puck"? I tell them no, they were named after the characters in Shakespeare's "A midsummer night's dream". Nine times out of ten people say "oh, I've never heard of it" or "oh, I've never seen a Shakespeare movie" (WTF??? What do they have you read in English class, fer chrissakes)??!! Only TWICE in the past year and a half (outside of DU) has anyone said "Oh-Shakespeare fan, huh"? One was a 16 year old girl who immediately chirped "like the king of the fairies and his servant from "A midsummer night's dream" "? But most have been more than TWICE her age and completely clueless that the Bard ever wrote a play by that name!

What the hell is going on in our public schools??

[MissMarple]

52. The pictures say it all. I remember that day like Kennedy's assassination.

People who were in college than are in their mid 50's now. We remember.

[ginnyinWI]

111. I remember well.

(born in 1952.) In high school at the time, this event brought home to us the deep divide in our country--between young and old, "establishment" types and those who wanted something other than what Nixon had in mind. A scary time, but not unlike today.

[malmapus]

54. Wow I'm almost 31 and I know about it

Can't say I learned it from school though, PBS programming and my parents most likely is where it came from.

[ohio_liberal]

61. Yep, I learned about it from my parents

who were definitely not against the Vietnam war and had a skewed outlook on it all. I looked it up at my local library years ago and made my own conclusions.

[Mrs_Beastman]

58. It wasn't taught in school

learned it by watching '60 minutes' when I was in my teens. Revisionist history sucks.

[politicat]

59. I know about this, and I wasn't even born....

My mother, being rather paranoid, was always worried about my political activity at university and frequently mentioned KSU. (She was 14 at the time, and very heavily involved in anti-war protesting as a Quaker.)

I have Philip Caputo's book sitting right next to me.

As far as the history books are concerned, you could blame it on the fact that only rarely do teachers of history make it past the Civil War when teaching American History.

I'm sorry... I know the feeling.... I hate having to explain ERA and the Iran Hostages to women my own age or older, who should remember it (I remember both, if not well...)

[vajraroshana]

60. one time, at band camp...

Back in '81 or '82, our high school band went to band camp at Jacksonville State Uni. (Jacksonville, AL) and we were hanging out in our dorm rooms, when I heard a lot of commotion, and shouts of "look at the hippies!" Everyone looked out our dorm windows and saw hippies with protest signs moving across the lawn. A few hippie-haters in our band were mooning them and flipping them the bird from the windows, then we hear someone on a bullhorn giving directions and all the hippies take a break. Very quickly we were informed that these are actors making a tv movie about Kent State and we weren't to disturb them. Most of us didn't have a clue about Kent State, so there was a lot of questions, like why weren't they making the movie at Kent State. They told us that the feelings were still too raw there for them to make the movie there, and the JSU campus was somewhat similar to Kent State.

I knew about Kent State from the Neil Young song, but until that movie experience I didn't know much about the details, and I'm sure most of my classmates wouldn't have known about it either.

[SmokingJacket]

66. I was only two so I don't remember it...

but for god's sake, it's part of the political history of our country. How could someone be so oblivious as not to know about it?

Our government, not so long ago, turned its guns on unarmed political protestors.

If we're unaware of THAT, we have no idea what the hell our government can do.

This makes me really angry.
:grr:

[DoctorMyEyes]

75. I was barely 9

But I remember it well. It was the event that served as my "political awakening". I DISTINCTLY remember that my favorite babysitter, a young woman named Sharon, had started college the year before. I saw her while she was home for Easter vacation and shortly after she returned to school (not Kent State) the shootings occured.

I was overwrought. The president - a man whose picture was posted on my classroom wall - had called out our military to SHOOT students at a university. Students like my beloved babysitter!?!? Sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, friends, babysitters could be shot down in cold blood??? At school!?!?!? By our army!?!?

I pledge allegiance to the flag? In that classroom? An American flag in the corner, a photo of Richard Nixon next to it, and the pictures of every former American president ever lining the wall next to it, above the chalkboard. There for me to memorize their faces, their names, to remember something significant from their administrations. I remember Nixon. I'll never forget the end of my innocence.

[proud patriot]

67. Sign made and up

:D I feel better now

[maxsolomon]

68. 41 y.o. weighing in

born in ohio 6 weeks before kennedy was shot in dallas.

i sure as fuck know about kent state. my 35 year old little brother knows more about it than i do. and my stepkids, 18 & 16, sure as fuck know about it. kent state pushed my bush-voting parents into the anti war camp. before they voted reagan-reagan-bush-bush-dole-bush-bush, they drug my 8 year old ass to candlelight anti war marches & voted mcgovern because rhodes was such a fascist.

of course, i had to teach myself about it; 11th grade history class is too concerned with the slave owners on our money.

[stevedeshazer]

72. My friend was FUCKING SHOT there...TWICE

Don't they teach history anymore?

[Comicstripper]

114. WOW

Could you provide some details, please?

[stevedeshazer]

123. Sure

His name is Joe Lewis. I used to play pickup basketball with him back in the '80s. I got to know him a little at a parts store where I used to work. He worked for the city water department in a small town in Oregon, which I'll leave nameless for now.

I haven't spoken to him in at least ten years. He never once mentioned this to me; I only found out later. I left the town and haven't spoken with him since, so Joe, if there's some small chance you are reading this, send me a PM, I'd love to talk with you. I know you'd remember me and the late Ron W., and Barry and Dave F.

Here is brief account of his story:

"Nine Kent State students were wounded in the 13 second fusillade. Most of the students were in the Prentice Hall parking lot, but a few were on the Blanket Hill area. Joseph Lewis was the student closest to the Guard at a distance of about sixty feet; he was standing still with his middle finger extended when bullets struck him in the right abdomen and left lower leg. "

source: http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/LEWIHEN.htm

[Comicstripper]

133. That's amazing

Almost surreal.

[stevedeshazer]

137. I swear it is for real.

[Bridget Burke]

73. The creators of "Crankshaft" remember Kent State....

The cranky old bus driver (Crankshaft) accompanied his daughter & son-in-law as they took their kids to visit their alma mater, Kent State. There is a whole series of strips on the visit & the memories that resulted:

http://kent.state.tripod.com/crankshaft.html

[justsomegirl]

95. The guy who draws that...

...is a Kent State Grad.

[info being]

74. Never give up. Just move to another country and be yourself there.

[n2mark]

81. Remember this well

I was 27 at the time living in Chicago.

[Bozita]

77. story from person who was there -- from Common Dreams

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0504-06.htm

-snip-

Once upon a time, a long time ago, an ambitious governor said on Friday he would use "whatever force necessary" to put down anti-war protests in a nearby college town. That night the protests grew worse, with bonfires and window-breaking and accusations of communist plots and police brutality flying back and forth. Saturday night the protestors set fire to an old frame building on campus, and the governor, believing that communists were taking over, called out the army. Sunday the situation deteriorated, with the anti-war protesters cursing and throwing rocks at the soldiers, the governor calling students "worse than Communists" and the guardsmen using tear-gas and bayonets to break up the crowd. Still, most believed the situation was under control and the protests would diminish when classes started on Monday.

-snip-

That's my story, with this personal note: On Monday, May 4, 1970, I took my five-year-old daughter to work with me instead of to her kindergarten class at the Kent State University School. I wasn't concerned about the student protesters, who shouted a lot and set some fires in the middle of the night, but I was worried about soldiers with rifles on campus. In the following days I tried to explain to her what had happened in terms she could understand, and in ways that wouldn't leave her fearful and distrusting of either students or soldiers.

Thirty-three years later I don't know why the soldiers opened fire. No guardsman ever claimed he was "just following orders". No officer ever stepped forward and said -- with either pride or shame -- "I gave the order to fire, by my authority, according to such-and-such a protocol."

Name-calling, rumors and divisive stories still circulate around Kent. A lot of energy is still invested in stories intended to make either the students or the guardsmen into Good Guys like the storyteller -- reasonable, virtuous, and humane, or stories to prove that "those people" --either the soldiers or the students -- were evil, depraved, inhuman Bad Guys.

And in 2003, after an unprovoked attack by the U.S. on small and unruly but essentially unarmed country, our entire nation is fragmented by name-calling, rumors and divisive stories. Like May 4 at Kent State, we have leaders convinced that "those people" had an arsenal of deadly weapons despite evidence to the contrary; and a belief by many people that violence was not only justified and necessary to restore order, it was the only possible option.

-snip-

more...

[underpants]

83. If I weren't from Ohio and a big CSNY fan I might not have known much

either. Hell I had never heard of Gen. Schmedly Butler until I joined DU. They don't teach things like that in history class and will be teaching less about them as standardized tests have their full effect (any coincidence there?).

I think anyone of "our" age frame should have known about if not only for the song and having older siblings and friends who turned us onto it. Hell "Ohio" was a mainstay of FM RAWK! radio for years.

Amazing.

[SoCalDem]

84. Take a look at a typical High School history text book.,

I would be really surprised if there was much of anything of substance in it...past WWII..

and since they seem to start from square one every year, there's only so much time...especially when there's memorization of the "Test" materials to be done..

\I'd be surprised if they get much past TeaPot Dome..

[Stirk]

85. I'd be tempted to gasp as well, but after I read

"A Peoples' History of the United States", I realized that I was completely clueless about our own history myself. Episodes like these simply evaporate from the public consciousness. They get in the way of rabid nationalism.

[shadowknows69]

86. I was one year old in 1970

and I new about Kent State. I don't know if it was in my history books or not but somebody that gave a shit told me about it. And Neil Young made me feel it.

[LibertyLover]

87. Kent State

The day after Kent State my high school in New Jersey had it's first student strike. It was organized by a friend of mine who had moved from Ohio, knew one of the girls who had been shot and a few months later applied to and was accepted by Kent State. The administration was livid and suspended Jerry for a week. Although I have only a very minor connection to the events at Kent State, the old 'friend of a friend' thing, I still remember it very well. It was a tense time. I worry that US citizens today don't know about it.

[im10ashus]

88. OMG!

Where are you? I will be 40 (there, I said it) in one month from today, and I remember it. Maybe it's because my mom, sister and aunt were hysterical. Things like that tend to stick in your mind. WOW! I just can't believe a teacher wouldn't have that knowledge. :scared:

[justsomegirl]

89. Keeping the flame...

Keeper of the Flame



Follow the link for more.

[Generator]

92. That's awesome, thanks.

[cry baby]

93. Did they cheat their way through school?

Jeeeeezzzzzz!

[erichzann]

94. I know Kent State and I'm 28 --- history is not all lost on all of us...

PS -- it was never taught to me in school however. In fact, I never studied the civil rights movement in high school or college ever, even though I tried to take a lot of history. How sad is that?

[KamaAina]

96. How could they not know Kent State?!

The Golden Flashes made it to the Elite Eight just three years ago!!! Why, oh why, must we live in Short Attention Span Nation?!

:sarcasm:

[Vinca]

97. What has happened to the people in this country?

How can anyone NOT know what Kent State was? It boggles the mind.

[nonconformist]

99. Unbelievable.

I'm 31 and *I* know about Kent State, and way before I was a political junkie to boot.

I assumed it was one of those "common knowledge" things. I don't recall when I found out about it, it's one of those things it seems like I always knew.

[Withywindle]

108. There is no "common knowledge" anymore, it seems...

like the poster upthread who said nobody recognizes his/her cats' names from Shakespeare. "Never heard of it" - whaaaaa?


I was less than a year old when Kent State happened; I don't "remember" it per se, but I also can't remember a time when I didn't know about it! I mean I can't remember when I learned about Vietnam protests, Civil Rights movement, Nixon, etc., I must have picked it up from my (lefty) parents, back issues of Life they had in the basement, books, who knows? How can someone NOT know?

I'm pretty sure I didn't learn about it in school, though, I think our history classes pretty much stopped at WWII. But damn, don't people pick up knowledge from anywhere else anymore? Especially about important events in recent US history? I mean, in historical terms, 35 years is the blink of an eye!

[importDavid]

100. I'm Canadian and...

I learned about Kent State in Junior High back in 1977. I'm 41 now. We spent an entire day in history class on it.

You never forget events like this.

[deutsey]

101. If something didn't happen two weeks ago

it's ancient history.

[donheld]

103. Makes ya wanna hollar!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I fear our country is just about hopeless.

[troubleinwinter]

104. Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.

[geniph]

105. I was 10, and I remember it being on the news,

and I remember hearing my elder siblings and their friends talking about it. I remember an article in one of the magazines, Time or Life or one of those, with an interview with one of those wounded in the melee. When people hear of those folks who were wounded, most people assume they've recovered. They haven't - not all of them. The one interviewed in the article - and I don't remember which one he was - is a paraplegic to this day. His spinal cord was severed by a bullet. High-powered ammunition does a LOT of damage - it's not like taking a .22 round.

I am eternally horrified by how ignorant so many people are, not just of history, but of what's happening around us today. Many, perhaps even most, people are equally as ignorant of the Florida voting debacle in 2000, the Ohio voting debacle in 2004, Bush's ties to Harken and Enron, things that you'd think would be drilled into their heads, as they are of the contents of papal bulls from the 15th century. For crying out loud, a majority of Americans are unable to find Afghanistan on a map, and many can't even locate the U.S.! How pathetic is that?!

on edit: I went and looked it up. It's Dean Kahler who was shot in the back and paralyzed for life. There's an article about him here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0803/is_4_45/ai_72997194

[BikeWriter]

106. fuck...

:(

[LibDemAlways]

107. I was a high school senior in 1970

and remember it well, of course. So many kids today learn nothing about recent history or current events until and unless they make it into a class where the topic is covered - most likely college. Part of the problem with studying American history is that teachers run out of time before they get to anything close to the last fifty years. My daughter had "American History" in 5th grade and spent the better part of the year on ancient man's migration to North America and early colonial life. When school ended in June, her class was learning about the American Revolution. Then they'll start all over again in 8th grade and 11th grade. Other years they study "world history," every time starting back in pre-historic times.

There is no discussion of current events at all in her 6th grade class. The teachers are too busy trying to prepare them to pass the standardized tests. However, since the runaway bride and Michael Jackson are what passes for "news" today, maybe that's not such a bad thing.

[Solly Mack]

109. Damn

we're so screwed...for that example and all the other examples out there

[Stinky The Clown]

110. Our National Amnesia ........ a National Disgrace (pictures)

I still weep

[many a good man]

112. Media choices, market segmentation and lack of shared history

It is ironic that the proliferation of media sources of news and history has lead us to become a country completely ignorant of its history.

I know our biggest problem today is media consolidation, but when you look back 35 years we had far fewer choices. Every TV in America had three network stations on VHF and two on UHF. The UHF stations (above channel 13 on the dial) didn't even have a national news program.

At the six o'clock hour everyone in the country had NO CHOICE but watch one of the network national news programs: NBC, ABC, or CBS. They all more or less covered the same stories, showed the same film footage. Every American experienced a SHARED HISTORY of the United States and the world.

Nowadays with cable TV and the myriad of other entertainment choices, a great many people no longer even watch the evening news. They make other choices. Its called market segmentation, like in the magazine industry. Publishers would discover small niches of interest and market magazines directed at the small audience in each niche: golf, science, popular science, pop psychology, religion, envt., etc. News is now fashioned in the same way. The mainstream news stations are like the LIFE magazine of yesteryear: the official dispenser of Received Opinion as shown through pictures. The special interest niches have their Amy Goodman and Bill O'Reilly. And then there's the internets...

Today our lives are more hectic and there's less time for informing oneself, even if you were so inclined. When I was young every adult in my working class neighborhood read one or sometimes two daily newspapers in addition to watching the nightly news. Today that is unheard of. Therefore it is not in the least surprising to hear the results of your informal survey.

----

I was eight years living 45 minutes away from KSU those dreadful days in 1970. It was all over the TV and radio. My mother made me promise to NEVER go to an anti-war demonstration for fear of being clubbed or shot to death. I've never regretted breaking that promise.

[Comicstripper]

113. I'm 17, and I know Kent State!

I don't get this....

[In_The_Wind]

115. sometimes people forget things that are too painful to remember

hopefully history won't repeat it's self

[slackmaster]

116. A coworker at previous job won "Politically Incorrect" award for Halloween

His bomber jacket had "ONG 4, KSU 0" embroidered on the back.

I knew the guy was a little to the right of center, but that one shocked me.

[expatriate]

117. 45 years old here, and I remember it well.

My father was a college professor at a university in Louisiana, and my life was very much influenced by student protests and anti-Vietnam sentiment. Of course, my father was also a news bug, and we had to have the TV on during dinner so he wouldn't miss the news. Dinnertime with napalm and the daily casualty lists was a regular event at our house.

So yes, I remember Kent State. Very well.

And even though I'm in the generation that can remember Kent State, I can back up a lot of what is being said about education here. History classes were complete bullshit when I was in school in the 1960's and 1970's. The teachers screwed around forever with the Colonial Period, going into far too much depth with "projects" (what do you learn from coloring pictures of Paul Revere on his horse) about it, and never got much past the Civil War by the end of the school year.

Then in high school, who taught the history classes? The football coaches - because in Louisiana it was easiest to be certified to teach "social studies" - it only required a few hours of history classes on the university level to go with your education degree (which in the case of "Coach", was in phys ed). So history class was taught by Coach, who usually wanted to talk about "da game". He and the foo'ball players would sit around rehashing "da game" while the rest of us read or talked. Sometimes we'd actually read some of the book, going painfully from one kid to another reading out loud (an entire new world of agony listening to some of those kids try to read). We never got to the Civil War at all.

Worst of all, at that time Louisiana required a SIX WEEK period of the American History class be set aside for "comparison of Capitalism vs. Communism". This consisted of having Coach get all red in the face and tell you what shitweasels "da Communis'" were and how they menaced the free world.

If a kid wasn't curious and didn't go looking for information on his own, the exposure to American History was non-existent. World History was eliminated from the curriculum when I was in tenth grade, along with Civics, to be replaced by classes like "You And The Law" and "Bachelor Survival Course".

And there was always that really educational experience of having to carry around a baby doll for 24 hours to prevent us from becoming teenaged parents ...

[ronnykmarshall]

118. When did it become a state?

I thought is was, um like Puerto Rico?

[Coloradan4Truth]

121. curious Matcom, are you a VN vet's child?

Because I am, and being a vet's child and the song are how I know about it... having always taken great interest in books, music and movies about the war and protests (I think I've been a peace-nik since age 3). But for someone of that age (30s) with no ties to it, I can see how they wouldn't know about Kent state. They never taught it in school as far as I remember.

Just my thoughts. Hopefully your co-workers will Learn now!

peace!

[matcom]

122. sort of

C.I.A. child (he was stationed in Viet Nam with the agency)

*I* am a Vet (1987-1990) U.S. Army, Germany

[spanone]

125. You are correct matcom, this country IS dead.

So wrapped up in our 'shit' we don't have a clue. And most don't care.

[Octafish]

126. I'm not dead yet.

I just look that way. Same for most of my co-workers, DU Friend. So, I'm using my time to awaken the rest of the sleeping masses and get the living off their lardened arses. The rest of 'em? Call the Collector.

[blue neen]

127. I will never forget it.

I was 14, and I remember the the sick feeling I had...

There actually was quite a bit of news coverage about it then. The MSM wouldn't treat this as news today...and if they did, they'd be told to shut up VERY quickly.

There will be no talk of Viet Nam era history these days...it might jog America's memory that Bush was AWOL during that time and Cheney took every deferment he could dream up.

My son is 21, and he knows all about Kent State. He was taught about it in high school history class (his teacher was a Viet Nam vet), but more importantly we talked about it in our home.

[lonestarnot]

128. Are we in the world of the walking dead or what? These type posts are

all over the boards tonight... don't know Kent...Don't know vp's name, I even typoed Johnson for Nixon today! We're just doomed!

[KoKo]

130. Well...no one knows about "Jimmy/Jeff" or Goldsmith/Blair Memo Either

and in fact they think the stockmarket is fine but still suffering from 9/11 and that things in America might not be great but Bush inherited so much filth and mess from Clinton that it will take a long time (like two terms or more of Repugs) to clean it all out.

It does make you wonder if there are "two America's" doesn't it. :D or :-(

[lonestarnot]

131. Giving me the squirts!

[Maestro]

132. Disgusting!

Ignorant people... Oh and while I am at it:

[ray of light]

134. Hope it's ok to post this link here too--I'm new so sorry if it's not.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2005/05/may_4lives_unde.html#comments

[suegeo]

136. My advice: Declare victory already! One is going to look it up...

Declare victory. At least one co-worker is willing to educate himself about the issue.

You took a horse to water, and the horse is prepared to drink.

Congratulations.

Like others in this thread, my HS history teacher stopped the lesson after we "won" WWII. This was back in the early 1980s.

Still, I knew (a tiny bit) about Kent State, and I was in the middle of nowhere Iowa.

[orleans]

138. don't worry--some of us still remember

some of us know about it

and some of us have been talking about it to their teenagers for the past couple of years
(like me, for example. my daughter is 17 years old. she knows about kent state. we looked up information on it, she has seen the pictures, and she knows *this must never happen again!*)

...and maybe this is an opportunity to inform your friends/co-workers about it and give them an opportunity to better understand your passion (and perhaps outrage).

...and an opportunity to teach something to the woman who teaches others--especially if she is teaching junior high or high school kids.

[true_notes]

139. It's sad, but we should never give up!

Hello DUer's! I've been lurking about for about a year now and finally decided to start posting. You guys are a great community, and look forward to sharing my opinion.

To the topic, The minds of America have been swayed for way to long for us to remember things such as Kent State, but ask them to remember something such as the Somalian conflict, they would probaly be able to tell you the date and time it began.

This is why we, as active liberals should educate, not debase our friends, as well as people who are willing to learn. I always explain significant events in history to my rock-headed friends, and tell them the significance it has had on the history of the nation.

I agree it is sad that history lessons such as Kent State aren't taught, but, look who's in power people. Oppress the Oppressed. Thats what they live by. Our minds have to be stronger than theirs.

[Daphne08]

140. Depressing

Very depressing

[SmileyBoy]

141. Fuck, I'm 22 years old, and I know all about it...

I agree, what mental midgets...

[Wizard777]

142. FOUR DEAD IN O-HI-O!

If they won't read about it. Then you just have to sing it to them. That how CSNY made sure everyone knew about it. It's an old minstrel tradition. The mistels would go from village to village singing the news.
You know to hear them shimpboat bastards. You would think that Kerry was the only one in all of the 60's that was protesting that damned war. But you know what they say. The only people that remember the 60's weren't there. I guess that includes them shrimpboat bastards.

[Tactical Progressive]

143. I would have gone to town on that group

The word 'patronizing' would have gotten an entirely new dimension.

First, I would have asked if they'd ever heard of a place called 'Vietnam'? V.i.e.t.n.a.m.?

Do you know where that is?

Did you know that the United States fought in a war there? It was about thirty five years ago. That was after World War II, but before the war in Iraq.

The United States was very divided and very upset by that war, because basically we got into another country's civil war that had nothing to do with us. And we were mostly given lies about it. And it needed so many men, over a million, so we had to have a draft. A draft is where they make you go to a war, even if you don't want to. That made alot of people even more upset.

There were protests and arguments everywhere, and at one point they had the US Army go onto a college campus and they shot a whole bunch of students with their Army rifles. Guys and girls who were just standing there.

Are you sure you never heard about that? It was after World War II like I said. Did you ever hear of Richard Nixon? He was a President back then.

etc.


There's no excuse for not at least having cursory knowlege of Kent State, I'm sorry. There were pictures and everything.

[B Calm]

146. I'm going to bring up Kent State at work this morning when

everybody is sitting around drinking our morning coffee and see what happens... UNFREAKIN' BELIEVABLE!!

[Singleterri]

147. Nixon didn't call out the National Guard

Only the state governor can do that.

[Charon]

148. Co-workers

That does not suprise me at all. Several years ago, during a discussion, several of my co-workers did not know what MaiLai(sic)
was.

[phusion]

150. Agh..

That's really sad, Matcom.

Jeezus...What a tragedy that whole thing was. It's the point when so many people remembered that we can never trust the long arm of the government. Never.

I'm 24 and posted about it on my blog yesterday. Even though I didn't live through it, it's something that I'll never forget.