Sibel Edmonds will run ads naming NAMES if Congress doesn't act

[seemslikeadream]

If Congress does not take action, Edmonds said, the coalition is prepared to run newspaper ads publicizing the names and salaries of individual managers who are alleged to have committed wrongdoing.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0405/042705c1.htm

National Security Whistleblowers Coalition:
Congress, Whistleblower Protection & Accountability

An unprecedented group of national security whistleblowers have formed a united front as the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition (NSWBC). They will collectively attend two bipartisan congressional meetings today to demand that Congress act to end government retaliation against those who expose national security blunders, that Congress hold hearings into the federal government’s actions against whistleblowers, and that Congress act to require ‘individual accountability’ for retaliation against whistleblowers. The congressional meetings will be followed by a press conference featuring speakers from the NSWBC and guest speakers.

Speakers: Sibel Edmonds, Former Language Specialist, FBI
Coleen Rowley, Retired Agent and former division counsel, FBI
John Vincent, Veteran Special Agent, FBI
Mike German, Veteran Special Agent, FBI
Russ Tice, Senior Intelligence Analyst & Action Officer, NSA
Jesselyn Radack, Former Counsel, DOJ
Guest Speakers: Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-MA)
Mark Zaid, attorney, Krieger Zaid LLC
Professor William Weaver, University of Texas
Danielle Brian, Director, Project on Government Oversight (POGO)
Tom Devine, Legal Director, Government Accountability Project (GAP)
Dan Ellsberg, Founder, Truth Telling Project

Date: Thursday, April 28
Time: 1:30 PM- 3:00PM
Location: 122 Cannon House Office Building, SE, Washington, DC

more
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0504/S00408.htm

[libertypirate]

1. They need every Americans support they are all heros!

[SheepyMcSheepster]

2. good! kick! eom

[evolvenow]

3. YES!! Fantastic, I hope they run those ads today!! kick

[blogslut]

4. Ellsberg...heehee

Everything old is new again :)

[H2O Man]

5. Hold on, America!

Help is on the way!

[TNOE]

6. SERIOUSLY!!!! God these people are hero's

Wow - they are not SHUTTING UP!! This is fabulous! Stay out of small planes - actually ALL Planes - and make it known that you are not at all sucidial.

[H2O Man]

8. Years ago I read two books by a French

"convict," who I believe was named Henri Charriere. The books were "Papillon," (which was made into a movie), and a follow-up called "Banco." Hopefully my memory is right! Anyhow, in one of the two books, an older convict tells Papillon that "revenge is a dish that is best ate cold." The fact that Bush/Cheny "won" the 2004 election did not mean they were in the driver's seat. I think that the administration needs to buckle their seat belts: the road we are turning onto may be a bit bumpy!

[DemonFighterLives]

11. Sounds even better when you say it H20 Man

:thumbsup:

[TNOE]

16. I not only agree

but I earnestly pray for it! LET THE TRUTH COME OUT!!! And you know what - it almost always does.

[Just Me]

45. Yes. A bumpy road ahead, indeed, for all of us.

I anticipate that this administration will not be as humble as the Nixon administration. Well, I'm prolly stating the obvious. They are going to LASH OUT, big time, this time. They'll completely destroy themselves in so doing,...but, there will be a far more reaching confrontation than before,...far worse than the Nixon era.

Well, there already has been a historical human confrontation given the precedential global protests (that is not noted on "TV" but is being recorded by notable historians). The global human stand over the last three years have certainly exceeded all those in the early 70's (and I am mindful that ya'll *hippies* and *civil rights activists* are THE driving piece of what is unfolding).

I predict that, the next six months are going to be "bumpy" as all get out,...for all of us. It's going to be,...weird and scary but fruitful and inspiring.

[enid602]

88. battle

I think the current Fundamentalist/Neo-Con/Defense/Petroleum administration was born from the ashes of the Watergate fiasco, at a time when Rove was still a Young (up and coming) Republican. They are good at strategy (look at what they did to Dashle), and have no doubt strategized the hell out of every possible outcome, including a major swing in public opinion and impeachment proceedings. These folks are the real deal. I don't know, however if they fully appreciate the potential of the internet, which would appear our best instrument to get the word out and rally the troops. Should be interesting.

[Frederik]

101. Did you notice

how distracted and insecure Bush looked at the press conference?

That may be unrelated, but the meeting between the national security whistleblowers and the house and senate committees took place earlier the same day.

I'm sure they have prepared for the possibility of an impeachment, however improbable that still looks at this point, and I'm sure they have a few tricks up their sleeves, to say the least.

But I couldn't help but think that yesterday, Bush was thinking how it would be to stand up there and answer the really tough questions. The ones that can't be answered with a facile "isn't America a great country".

[DemonFighterLives]

102. Maybe we're on the same page

On the "how much of w did you watch poll" I was wondering out loud about how nothing of substance came out in the big press conference. Therefore it had to be cover for something else going on. I don't know when his dumb thing was planned or when Sibel's thing was planned, but they always seem adept at filling the winds with BS when something is happening behind the scenes.
As my dad would say, "Turn the Windjammer off". :)

[FreedomAngel82]

64. Think so?

Do you think so? I've always thought Bush takes his orders from someone higher. They're not doing anything they're supposed to I think and things are going crappy in this country and people are getting mad. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[H2O Man]

71. Oh, sure ....

George W. isn't the brains behind the operation.

[Virginian]

82. PNAC?

I think you are talking about the Project for a New American Century.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

[H2O Man]

103. Correct. n/t

[AuntiBush]

68. May be!?! Buckle-up, now! And thank you to those on that list!

They should each contact their lawyers and sign a paper w/documentation from their lawyers that they are not suicidal, etc...

Thank you, to those on that list. Hero's... let's hope!

Good post, H20 MAN!

[NVMojo]

89. I saw that movie ....I can't wait til the Bush clan turns cold!!!

[leftchick]

13. I hope the travel with security!

I would donate to help pay to keep these heros safe!

:woohoo:

[DemonFighterLives]

7. Thanks for this news

We've been waiting for 4 years for something to break. I think, no matter what happens, they need to get the ads out there and maybe accidentally leaked. I'm ready for some truth. :toast: :bounce:

[DemonFighterLives]

9. Just needed her picture

She Rocks!

[H2O Man]

18. It's funny.

This administration is comprised of the most vulgar class of bullies. And they can intimidate a hell of a lot of people. Colin Powell backed down from them when it counted. Tony Blair became Bush's lap dog, even when it didn't count. I think that in their bullying calculations, they never realized this lady wouldn't back down.

[Generator]

59. Indeed

They are nothing but a bunch of thugs. I used to say sneery smug frat boys..but they really are mafia to me. The only thing they value is loyalty. That's it. You are either WITH them or you are dead to them. And that means all of us.

All that can ever save this country is what I've always said-some insider that has the tremendous courage to tell the truth.

And we wait while the thugs roll along with smiles on their faces.

[H2O Man]

63. Even the mafia

has a code of honor. These people have no honor at all.

[DemonFighterLives]

99. She packs one hell of a punch

:kick:

[porkrind]

69. Sibel...

:loveya:
Isn't she great?

[Frederik]

73. She is

candy to the eyes...

[DemonFighterLives]

100. She is attractive in so many ways

May she have many guardian angels. Hear that MOM?
O8)

[SoCalDem]

10. Item # 1..get bodyguard...item#2 place ads.. Go Sibel

I wish she had done this early on.. No one in the administration will help get her information out.. It hurts THEM:(

[Just Me]

48. She couldn't. Now, an assembly of support has congregated.

Without that support system,...she would be "nothing".

They have congregated, gathered as a force, and together they will make an impact.

Let's join them. :bounce:

[Frederik]

53. Exactly

A group of 50 former agents of the CIA, NSA, DIA, Justice dept. etc., that's harder to ignore or defame than just one woman.

I just hope they have the common sense to not all get on the same plane together!

[Just Me]

66. They will protect, with our assistance, the interests of humanity.

Yes? :bounce:

[Frederik]

74. Yes!

Well put.

[bpilgrim]

12. she will be taken out

she is a brave patriot :toast:

peace

[TNOE]

15. Oh, please don't say that BP

I hear ya, - but maybe, just maybe - she's got the force with her. Let's be positive and send her energy and light (if you're the spiritual type that is). She must be an angel in disguise is all I can say.

[bpilgrim]

19. sorry about that, i feel the same way

sending positive energy her way - hopefully she is considered too hot to touch :loveya:

peace

[H2O Man]

25. They will try:

{A} to discredit and smear her; and/or {B} to threaten her with incarceration. It is too late to do more; there are others with documentation of what she knows, and the administration recognizes that fact. They do not want a martyr, especially one who outsmarted them and left documentation.

[bpilgrim]

26. they've already done that

and have fortunately FAILED.

i agree that they must be careful about drawing even more attention to them selves but as we all know Stalin's 'rule' kicks in.

she is a true American hero and the tide certainly seems to be turning as so many folks are refusing to let 911 be swept under the rug.

thank GORE he 'invented' the INTERNETs :bounce:

and thank you for all you do in pass'n the word :toast:

peace

[Frederik]

31. Yep

The only attempt at smearing so far has been the FBI saying she had a "difficult personality"! Well, thank the good lord for her difficult personality. The assholes' strategy now is to stall it in the courts and keep a low profile. The whistleblowers' strategy is to slowly turn up the heat and watch them boil in their own fat. (Well, ok, that's the optimistic scenario)

"Isn’t it fair to demand that they should let the people know what kind of 'foreign relations' is worth 3000 lives lost?"
-Sibel Edmonds

http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds1.htm

:bounce:

[Fleshdancer]

14. WOW!

GREAT news!

[slaveplanet]

17. Someone's knockin' at the door

Somebody's ringin' the bell
Someone's knockin' at the door
Somebody's ringin' the bell
Do me a favor,
Open the door and let 'em in

Sister Suzie, brother John,
Martin Luther, Phil And Don,
Brother Michael, Auntie Gin,
Open the door and let 'em in.

[TNOE]

20. Beautiful

!!!!! Thanks for that post!

[dmr]

77. That put a smile on my face

Go Sibel!

I agree with H20 Man - rocky road indeed. Losing control too. I can feel it!

I think Bush* being compelled to have a extremely rare news conference tonight is telling.

[Frederik]

21. wow!

There's momentum here!

Sibel's statement in the meeting today:
http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/Sibel-Statement%204-28-2005.htm

"It does not come as a shock that in recent years the number of national security whistleblowers has grown exponentially; so has the level of retaliation and harassment against these whistleblowers by the government. Our group, which started as a few national security whistleblowers in the summer of 2004, has rapidly grown to over 50 people currently. Our members are experts and veterans from various intelligence & law enforcement agencies such as the FBI, CIA, DIA, FAA, and NSA. Here are their names and backgrounds (Name List, attached).

In listening to whistleblowers’ stories, heart wrenching stories about how the careers, marriages, lives, and physical and mental well-being of these conscientious patriots have been destroyed for doing the right thing, for fulfilling their first & foremost duty, protecting our nation, I realized how we all fit the same pattern and how these agencies’ retaliation tactics follow the same blueprint; as if there is a government agency manual for retaliation against whistleblowers, truth tellers. They yank our security clearances, they force us to take polygraphs, they engage in humiliation, demotion, threats……and the list goes on. I kept asking myself why, and I think I have an answer, a very simple one: Because they CAN, thus they will. They CAN, because there is NO deterrence. They CAN, since they are allowed to hide behind agency walls and dodge liability and responsibility."

"Who are the losers in this picture? No, it is not only the whistleblower who reported waste, fraud, abuse, and/or criminal activities within his or her government agency. It is the American people, their security, interests and wellbeing that suffer the biggest loss. Not only do they incur this cost, they also pay for it. Their tax money sustains, promotes, and rewards the wrongdoers, incompetents, and criminals in government agencies. We the citizens are paying these wrongdoers who jeopardize our security, interests, and welfare.

I bet they're regretting they ever employed this woman over at the FBI!

[TNOE]

22. Sorry bout their luck!!

"I bet they're regretting they ever employed this woman over at the FBI!"

I'm sure you're right - not everyone is corruptable!

[seemslikeadream]

24. Rep. Ed Markey is expected to introduce legislation

In the coming days, Rep. Ed Markey (D-MA) is expected to introduce legislation which would extend genuine whistleblower protections to government and corporate whistleblowers.
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0428-10.htm

[Frederik]

67. We shall see

what becomes of that. Sibel has a couple of Republican backers too, like Grassley (well, only Grassley, perhaps), maybe they will come up with something substantial that will actually pass, though I think the (R)s will fight that tooth and nail.

"We want Congress to pass legislation that will let us directly sue the wrongdoers and bring our claims against them," she said.

And then? We shall see.

"I call them left-wing, right-wing, no-wing, I don't care. We all have a common cause," Edmonds said. "Tomorrow we are going to be coming in the hundreds. And then we are going to come in the thousands. How long are they going to ignore us?"

:hi:

[seemslikeadream]

70. How long are they going to ignore us?"

[Frederik]

75. LOL

Love your emoticons!

[YvonneCa]

135. Markey was in Nevada with John Kerry...

...and Harry Reid at a Las Vegas rally last October. Thoughts???

[bpilgrim]

27. great post!

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

[DemonFighterLives]

32. That came out quick

I'm all for protecting them and would really like for someone to flesh out these stories and the real criminal dealt with.

[Frederik]

23. Kick!

:bounce: :bounce:

[Frederik]

28. An extra kick for...

Dan Ellsberg (Vietnam-era whistleblower of Pentagon papers fame):

Ashcroft may face prison
over 9/11 cover-up,
says Daniel Ellsberg

"Talk of US government interference in 9/11 investigations, and the considerable volume of online analysis discounting the official conspiracy theory, resonate with Ellsberg.

"I'm not an expert on all this," he admits. "But I am increasingly open to the explanation that people in the administration did see this coming... and may have indeed reduced some obstacles.., or opened the door, in effect. I haven't been absolutely convinced on that, but it does seem to me to be an open question that deserves investigation."

"Now beyond that... it seems to me quite plausible that --plausible, that's all I'd say-- that Pakistan was quite involved in this, and that many Saudis were well informed on this," says Ellsberg.

"And to say that. To say Pakistan-- is to me, to say C.I.A. Because I think the relations between the Pakistan I.S.I. and CIA were very close from the beginning. And it's hard to say that the I.S.I knew something that the CIA had no knowledge of."

"So if you say, do I accept confidently, and do I rely on the official interpretation? Certainly not. But, I wouldn't say that I have been yet been thoroughly convinced by any alternative."

"I can add one thing though -from my own experience, that's relevant."

"Is it possible... that an American president could have... welcomed an attack on America that he would interpret justifying an invasion of another country?"

"Well, that's more than possible, that happened --under a president that I served. Lyndon Johnson did put American destroyers in harms way, deliberately provoking an attack.. in the Tonkin Gulf. Not only in August of '64, but in February of '65. ...There was an attack on August 2nd, and that was not unwelcome to the United States at that point."

http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds1.htm

:bounce:

[seemslikeadream]

29. And who was that meeting in the US on Sept. 10?

a Pakistani I believe?

[bpilgrim]

33. ISI Chief Lt. General Mahmoud Ahmad arrived in the U.S. on September 4

Atta’s Money-man Meets With 9/11 Investigation Chairmen on Morning of Attacks

Three days after the attacks on September 14, the New York Times reported that important members of the Bush Administration met with the terrorist financier and ISI Chief, General Ahmad: CIA Director George Tenet, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, Under-Secretary of State Marc Grossman, and Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE) -- Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

However, the Times also revealed that on September 11 -- while the attacks were in progress -- the two current Co-Chairmen of the Joint-Intelligence Committee investigating the 9/11 attacks, Senator Bob Graham (D-FL) and Representative Porter Goss (R-FL), met for breakfast with the ISI Chief who had ordered $100,000 wired from Pakistan to terrorist leader Mohammed Atta in the days immediately preceeding the attacks.

All this, while General Ahmad was in the United States meeting with multiple Bush Administration officials and members of Congress:

"When the news came, the two Florida lawmakers who lead the House and Senate intelligence committees were having breakfast with the head of the Pakistani intelligence service. Rep. Porter Goss, Sen. Bob Graham, and other members of the House Intelligence Committee were talking about terrorism issues with the Pakistani official when a member of Goss’ staff handed a note to Goss, who handed it to Graham. ‘We were talking about terrorism, specifically terrorism generated from Afghanistan,’ Graham said." (presciently)

In a skilled analysis of the neglected yet important story, Professor Chossudovsky literally dug deep to verify the participation of Bush Administration officials in the meetings with the hijacker financier behind the September 11 attacks.

more...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0208/S00045.htm

[oblivious]

98. Impossible to believe that one got swept under the rug.

It's just mind-boggling.

[bpilgrim]

109. thank GORE he 'INVENTED' the INTERNETs ;-)

psst... pass the word :hi:

peace

[elehhhhna]

43. oops. Nevermind. An engaged white woman's disappeared in Western Boodjie,

Virginia.

MSM has priorities, ya know!
















sarcoff

[JanMichael]

30. It'll be hard for pro-bushits to stomach, or counter, this groups ads.

FBI, DOJ, NSA etcetera.

Credibility from titles only will wilt them.

Good for US!

[mogster]

34. Very brave people

The truth will always look for a way out :-)

Recommended!

[Roland99]

35. Now *that* is activism!!

Huzzah!

Huzzah!

Huzzah!

[understandinglife]

36. Truly courageous!!! (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us (May 2 2005 is the day you should begin preparing yourself for all you are going to do to reclaim, peacefully, America from the perpetrators of atrocities currently in the executive and legislative branches of our government)

[bvar22]

37. American Heroes and True Patriots!!!

Truth to Power!!

I salute them.
:patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot:
:patriot::patriot::patriot::patriot:

[BamaBecky]

38. Does this girl own a bullet proof vest? Geeze........n/t

[BamaBecky]

39. Seriously....that would be a very courageous thing to do....they will lock ...

her up and throw away the key.........:patriot: :applause: :hide:

[indie_voter]

40. Wow! Great! Now if only Richard Clarke was on this list! n/t

[slater71]

41. Oh Yeah!

[0007]

42. Just got my brain re-wired It was Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski

I got mixed up with Sibel Edmonds. And the name of the documentary was "Hijacking Catastrophe" that I was referring too in our last conversation. I'm purchasing the CD for twenty bucks. Have you seen the film?

http://www.hijackingcatastrophe.org/

Hijacking Catastrophe: 9/11, Fear & the Selling of American Empire examines how a radical fringe of the Republican Party used the trauma of the 9/11 terror attacks to advance a pre-existing agenda to radically transform American foreign policy while rolling back civil liberties and social programs at home. The documentary places the Bush administration’s false justifications for war in Iraq within the larger context of a two-decade struggle by neoconservatives to dramatically increase military spending in the wake of the cold war, and to expand American power globally by means of military force. At the same time, the documentary argues that the Bush administration has sold this radical and controversial plan for aggressive American military intervention by deliberately manipulating intelligence, political imagery, and the fears of the American people after 9/11.


Narrated by Julian Bond, Hijacking Catastrophe features interviews with more than twenty prominent political observers, including Pentagon whistleblower Lt. Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski.

Thanks for the information on this thread about Sibel Edmonds.

[Frederik]

46. Hijacking Catastrophe

Excellent documentary - a must-see! - starring Lt Col Karen Kwiatkowski, who worked in the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans under Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith. She says they were told to come up with dramatic-sounding talking points on Iraq's WMD based on the flimsiest intelligence.

[Poiuyt]

72. Kwiatkowski has a great column

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski-arch.html

[seemslikeadream]

129. Thanks Poiuyt

:hi:

[mtnester]

44. Please if there is a God in Heaven, let her run the names...nt

[wiggs]

47. Again: Important..but window-dressing

FBI mismanagement of translation division and treatment of whistleblowers are important issues. But these two issues are NOT why she was gagged by DOJ. They are not the most important Sibel stories out there.

Sibel has information about some of the countries that were involved in 9/11, WHERE the money trail led, and WHEN our government knew about it. She stumbled on some questionable FBI management problems, but the real dirt has to do with the content of what she translated. This knowledge is why she should be worried about here safety, and why she should repeat the story as much as possible as soon as possible.

I suspect the "names" she is referring to are those officials in FBI who retaliated against her for going public...although I wish she was talking about the 9/11 participants...

[DemonFighterLives]

50. We all want the meat and potatoes

Of course I don't know what all she has, but she has alluded to drug running and money laundering. Also, she knew that the information was being muddled. With protection and 49 others, we can only hope for the best. Something this big potentially, will take a while to draw out.

[chlamor]

52. P-Tech

[wiggs]

54. P tech is...... nt.

[DemonFighterLives]

56. Can I have another clue?

Or a link.

[seemslikeadream]

57. I'll start here - Indira Singh/PTech

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/01/michael-chertoff-and-sabotage-of-ptech.html

Indira Singh/PTech deep moles in FAA help accomplish 9/11! WTF??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2203166

Al Qaeda financier's company had FAA access, was protected by FBI.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1087911

Jeb Bush seized flight school records at 2 AM on September 12.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1328855

[Frederik]

58. I notice that

some of the members of Sibel's whistleblower alliance come from the FAA.

[DemonFighterLives]

94. Thanks for jogging my memory

n/t

[chlamor]

60. "I think there is a CIA within the CIA"

Here's a bit:



Roger recommended Indira speak to Jeff Goins, a former Ptech employee. This is where Indira first heard of Saudi terror financier Yasin Al Qadi and that he had been (and may have continued to be) an investor in Ptech. Al Qadi said he met Dick Cheney in Jeddah before he became Vice President, and that they still maintain "cordial relations." Indira confirmed that Jeff had taken his concerns to the FBI. In short order, Indira was talking to the FBI agent Jeff had spoken with.

<snip>

Roger recommended Indira speak to Jeff Goins, a former Ptech employee. This is where Indira first heard of Saudi terror financier Yasin Al Qadi and that he had been (and may have continued to be) an investor in Ptech. Al Qadi said he met Dick Cheney in Jeddah before he became Vice President, and that they still maintain "cordial relations." Indira confirmed that Jeff had taken his concerns to the FBI. In short order, Indira was talking to the FBI agent Jeff had spoken with.

<snip>

"Your country is not the country you think it is," says Indira.

She took Joe Bergantino's report down to Virginia and interviewed Ptech employees herself - to get it straight from the horse's mouth. Having further confirmed her worst nightmares, she demanded the FBI agent who gave her Bergantino's report re-open an investigation into Ptech. He said he couldn't. She told him to tell his supervisor. He already had, and was told there was nothing they could do.

<snip>

"It had all the markings," said Indira. All the markings of a CIA front company.

"I think there is a CIA within the CIA," Indira told FTW. "I think there is a Shadow CIA that does the Iran-Contra type of things--they get funding from illicit methods--and that the Saudi's are in on it. They might have trained some operatives, and later it backfired-it was blowback within blowback perhaps."

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050301231231793

[Frederik]

61. Wow

I wasn't aware of the Dick Cheney - Al Qadi link!

"I think there is a CIA within the CIA," Indira told FTW. "I think there is a Shadow CIA that does the Iran-Contra type of things--they get funding from illicit methods--and that the Saudis are in on it. They might have trained some operatives, and later it backfired-it was blowback within blowback perhaps."

The Saudis and the Pakistanis. Not so sure it "backfired", though. It may have just "fired".

[chlamor]

65. A look into

Cheney's past will reveal more than your brain will want. If you want to undertake a big project look into Cheney's history starting in his college days and just dig for info. A dark world will be revealed. He is a truly sinister man and arguably one of the most discretely powerful people on this planet.

Your time may be better spent in the garden but if you have a curious mind you will find many skeletons, literally, in Dick's closet.

Frederick you are a total asset to the Democratic Underground

:toast:


The BMI Octopus

At the same time Indira had stumbled onto Yasin Al Qadi, Robert Wright was on the stairs of the Capitol in tears apologizing to the 9/11 victim's' family members for a fouled up investigation into Yasin Al Qadi, and much more. Indira didn't know of Agent Wright until seeing him on television.

"When Agent Wright said he was investigating a company with 26 subsidiaries, it was BMI, and Ptech was their crown jewel." Though Ptech wasn't a direct subsidiary of the New Jersey Islamic banking firm BMI, Dr. Hussein Ibrahim, Ptech's chief scientist who inexplicably asked Indira to develop JP Morgan's software on his laptop, was vice president of BMI from 1989 to 1995. BMI had also leased computer equipment to Ptech, and as mentioned earlier, it was BMI that introduced Ptech to Yasin Al Qadi.

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050301231231793

Socrates said: "All wars are fought for money."

[Frederik]

118. Thanks for the link!

This I wasn't aware of:

"According to Indira Singh, Governor Kean, who headed the 9/11 Commission, sold a piece of property in New Jersey through BMI, Inc. This was revealed in the same Treasury Department report referenced earlier, from July 14, 2003"

This is mind-boggling:

"Astonishingly, after this occurred Agent Abdel-Hafiz was promoted to one of the FBI's most important anti-terrorism posts, the American Embassy in Saudi Arabia. The day he arrived, the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen. He quickly became involved in that investigation, and was later promoted to Assistant Legal Attache in Riyadh with a GS 14 ranking-the second highest level an agent can obtain. He was at that post on September 11, 2001."

I never made the direct link between Sibel Edmond's case and Indira Singhs', but now I do. Abdel-Hafiz was connected to the BMI, which owned Ptech, and he was an infiltrator in the FBI, protecting the subject of FBI investigations while being protected by some of his superiors in the bureau. Just like Major Dickenson. And Wright is now in Edmond's coalition!

The pieces are clicking into place for me on 9/11 now. Saudis, Pakistanis, drugs, arms, money laundering, Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood, ties to the CIA since the 50s), the BCCI network, international organized crime infiltrating government on every level, the ties between western intelligence agencies and Muslim fundamentalists (as well as Christian fundamentalists), the detachment of clandestine operations from any kind of oversight or control, the ties between the covert world, drugs, and Wall Street Big Money.

I'm thrilled to see that FBI agent Wright is part of Sibel's coalition! He is also under a gag order. This group and their information is absolutely explosive. The truth about 9/11 is going to come out, I think, eventually. I can't see what's going to stop these people from eventually spilling the beans. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens then, when enough of it comes out for it to be difficult to ignore.

"Attorney Larry Klayman of the conservative legal watchdog group Judicial Watch has said the "Vulgar Betrayal" manuscript hits Bush and Cheney "hard," and former Attorney General John Ashcroft is not spared, either. This leaves little doubt as to the origins of the obstruction of Wright's investigation. Wright was eventually barred from speaking to the media."


:toast: You're an asset yourself!

[chlamor]

119. You nailed it

And I will just say this Dick Cheney got into all these networks early in his life and understands how to operate quite fluidly covering all angles. That's all.

[seemslikeadream]

120. The C.I.A. & The Muslim BrotherhoodHow the CIA set the stage for Sept11

Reverend Franklin Graham, the pugnacious preacher who delivered the prayer at President George W. Bush's 2001 inauguration, might have a bone to pick with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). When Franklin branded Islam "a very evil and wicked religion" after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, he had no idea that American spies were once eager to promote a Muslim leader in the Middle East modeled after his own father, the famous evangelist Billy Graham.

The CIA often works in mysterious ways - and so it was with this little-known cloak-and-dagger caper that set the stage for extensive collaboration between US intelligence and Islamic extremists. The genesis of this ill-starred alliance dates back to Egypt in the mid-1950s, when the CIA made discrete overtures to the Muslim Brotherhood, the influential Sunni fundamentalist movement that fostered Islamic militancy throughout the Middle East. What started as a quiet American flirtation with political Islam became a Cold War love affair on the sly - an affair that would turn out disastrously for the United States. Nearly all of today's radical Islamic groups, including al-Qaeda, trace their lineage to the Brotherhood.

.............

To understand what happened on that fateful day when terrorist strikes leveled the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, one must revisit the turbulent changes that took place a half century earlier in the land of the sphinx. After seizing power in a 1952 military coup Egyptian Col. Gamal Abdul Nasser quickly threw prominent Communists in jail. This raised eyebrows among US cloak-and-dagger operatives who were eager to oblige when Nasser requested help in upgrading Egypt's ineffectual secret service. But the US government "found it highly impolitic to help him directly," the late CIA agent Miles Copeland acknowledged in his memoirs, The Game of Nations , so the CIA subcontracted more than a hundred German Third Reich vets, who specialized in Nazi security and interrogation techniques, to do the job.

..............

Copeland was off and running. He visited several Egyptian mosques in search of an Islamic preacher who could sway the Arab masses in a manner most congenial to US interests. Although Copeland never found the CIA's messiah, his furtive machinations were not without impact. While on the prowl for a Muslim Billy Graham, Copeland reached out to leaders of the religious revival movement known as the Ikhwan, or Muslim Brotherhood, which sought to build an Islamic society from the bottom up. The seeds of a clandestine relationship between the CIA and the Ikhwan were planted by Copeland, who surmised that the Muslim Brothers, by virtue of their strong antipathy to Arab nationalism as well as Communism, might be a viable counterweight to Nasser in the years ahead, US intelligence would become a defacto partner of the Brotherhood as it evolved from a mass-based social reform organization into the wellspring of Islamic terrorism.
more
Martin Lee
Razor Magazine 0804

article not online - will post more

[seemslikeadream]

121. more

"Any contact Miles had with the Muslim Brotherhood was not official policy," insists retired CIA officer Raymond Close, a colleague of Copeland in the Middle East. "It was strictly solo work on his part. There were an awful lot of things that Miles did that were totally off the board."

Whether Copeland's efforts were "off the board" or otherwise, the Muslim Brotherhood was certainly a force to be reckoned with. Since its inception in 1928, the Society of the Muslim Brothers sought to restore Islamic law and values in the face of growing Western influence. Launched as a social welfare association, it became a focal point of resistance to British colonial rule. The Special Order Group, a secret paramilitary wing set up by the Brotherhood, carried out guerrilla raids in Egypt during the 1940's, bombing British installations and killing British soldiers and civilians. By the time Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna was assassinated in 1949, the fast-growing Ikhwan, with its distinctive green flag crossed with white swords and a red Koran, had a half million Egyptian members and affiliates in several other countries.

...........

American intelligence formed a three-way tryst with the Saudis and the Muslim Brothers, according to Robert Baer, the former case officer in the CIA's Directorate of Operations. With the CIA's implicit approval, the Saudi royals channeled funds to the Brothers who joined a US-backed, anti-Nasser insurgency in Yemen in 1962. "Like any other truly effective covert action, this one was strictly off the books," explains Baer. "There was no CIA funding, no memorandum of notification to Congress. Not a penny came out of the Treasury to fund it. All the White House had to do was give a wink and a nod to countries harboring the Muslim Brothers."

Yemen was just a warm up. To give a boost to Islamic proselytizing the Saudis with CIA encouragement, founded the Muslim World League in 1962. Underwritten initially by several donors including the Saudi-based Aramco oil consortium (then a CIA collaboration, the League established a formidable international presence with representatives in 120 countries. Members of the Muslim Brotherhood occupied key staff positions at the League while it disseminated anti-communist religious propaganda and sponsored the construction of mosques and Islamic center's around the world.

[seemslikeadream]

122. more

Exiled Ikhwani were also employed as teachers and imams in Saudi mosques, schools and government agencies, where they promoted the extremist doctrine of Sayyid Qutb, the Brotherhood's leading scribe and theorist. Executed in 1966 after 10 years of confinement in Egyptian torture chambers, Qutb is arguably the most influential religious scholar in modern Islam. He fashioned a lethal variant of political Islam that provided a Koranic justification for violence as the only way to rid the Muslim world of corrupting Western influences. Qutb's hostility toward the West, in general, and the United States, in particular, was born during two years of study at the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley in the late 1940's. He returned to Egypt mortified by decadent, sex-crazed America, which he likened to a brothel.

The Muslim Brotherhood underwent a significant shift with the radicalization of Qutb in prison. What had been essentially a reformist organization in its formative phase veered off in a dangerous new direction. In addition to intro ducting a harsh anti-American perspective to the Brethen, Qutb called for the formation of a revolutionary Islamic vanguard to spearhead the violent overthrow of secular Arab regimes. Qutb's martyrdom bestowed instant credibility upon his message, which posthumously filled the ideological void left by the huge Arab defeat in the 1967 Six Day War with Israel, a defeat that shamed Nasser and discredited the Arab nationalist cause.

Qutb's inflammatory writings would decisively influence a generation of young militants, including the future spear-carriers of al-Qaeda. Osama bin Laden, the tall, handsome scion of a wealthy Persian Gulf family, was first exposed to Qutb's nostrums while attending King Abdul-Aziz University in Jeddah. One of bin Laden's instructors in religious studies was Egyptian Professor Muhammed Qutb, the exiled brother of Sayyid Qutb, who taught classes on the imperatives and nuances of Islamic jhad.

RAZOR Magazine September 2004

[seemslikeadream]

123. more

After Nasser died in 1970, the Muslim Brethren, buoyed by Saudi petrodollars, resurfaced in Egypt. The newly emboldened Ikhwani were wooed by President Anwaar Sadat, Nasser's successor, who freed Islamic activists from jail, lifted some restrictions on the Brothers, and turned them loose against the Nasserite die-hards and leftist student groups who disapproved of Sadat's decision to make amends with the United States. Sadat's courtship of the Brotherhood elicited more winks and nods from US intelligence. Right under the CIA's nose, the officially-banned by semi-tolerated Muslim Brotherhood was going through a momentous transformation in its country of origin.

French scholar Gilles Kepel, the author of Jhad: The Trail of Political Islam, describes how Qutb's theories found a receptive audience at Egyptian university campuses, giving rise to a potent radical wing with in the Islamist movement. When the older leaders of the Ikhwan, chastened by years of repression, repudiated armed confrontation in favor of gradual efforts to reform the system, renegade Brothers created several violent splinter groups and vowed to wage holy war against an authoritarian Egyptian regime, which they saw as corrupt, anti-Islamic, and a US puppet. The heads of two Brotherhood breakaway factions - the Egyptian Islamic Jhad of Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Islamic Group of Sheik Omar Abdei Rahman - were among those implicated in the 1981 assassination of President Sadat.

Today Rahman, a blind Egyptian cleric, is serving a life sentence in the United States for plotting to blow up the United Nations, Manhattan's FBI building, the George Washington Bridge and other New York City landmarks, while Dr. al-Zawahiri, a squat, bespectacled zealot with a round head and owlish face, appears in post-9/11 video footage sitting on the right-hand side of Osama bin Laden. Dubbed "the brains behind al-Qaeda," al-Zawahiri became bin Laden's top deputy after the Egyptian physician had matriculated through the ranks of the Muslim Brother.

RAZOR Magazine September 2004

[FreedomAngel82]

124. I agree about Cheney

If you want a preview you can see the unauthorized documentary of him. I think http://www.informationclearinghouse.info has it.

[Frederik]

128. Recommended docmentary

I've seen the documentary, it's very interesting indeed. Dick is not a nice man, to say the least. There's probably a lot more to him too, that this documentary does not touch.

[DemonFighterLives]

97. Thanks for the info.

What a dirty web they weave!

[Frederik]

51. Yes

But first things first. This is brilliant strategy. They have organized this group of now 50 national security whistleblowers, who were fired for blowing the whistle on all kinds of things probably, and they are collectively seeking stronger whistleblower protection for government employees who blow the whistle on national security issues. This gives her strong backing by credible people, hopefully at last a little media attention (we can always hope), backing from a couple of congresspeople and hopefully will protect her from retaliation later.

The names in question, at this point, are probably those of officials who are engaged in corruption or criminal acticities within govt agencies, at least that's how I understand it. The activity that they blew the whistles on and that is allowed to continue.

She is not going to stop there. She has said that there are other whistleblowers from other agencies who can corroborate and add to what she has uncovered. I think it's likely that some of the 50 others in this group (who have backgrounds in the CIA, NSA etc) also have information relevant to 9/11.

[FreedomAngel82]

125. I agree

I think it is smart to start where she is. Them having protection is very important. Especially with the information. I think if she was being threatful to the Bush administration we would've heard about something with her by now. I'm glad they're getting help and I hope they stay safe and are successful. People deserve to know the truth about what's going on. I hope she has a plan to bring down the PNACers.

[Zenlitened]

49. Three cheers for a genuine American Patriot!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

This is an important step forward, and I hope the day will come when all the "classified" facts are known about that awful day.

[loudsue]

55. God Protect Them, Every One!

This is WONDERFUL news! I'm so encouraged that they have finally formed this alliance, and the information they all have can begin to come out.

I SERIOUSLY believe the newspapers will NOT print their ads (you have to remember WHO owns the media), but the fact that they've joined together is a powerhouse that can't be ignored.

Please send this to ALL the blogs, all across cyber-space, so that more and more people will see this. Eventually, the corporate press will publish a tidbit. But this also needs to be sent via e-mail to everyone's "address book" in their e-mail database, and to all publications that might publish it.

O8)Let this movement be what finally informs the masses about the criminals running our government! O8)

:kick::kick::kick:

[FreedomAngel82]

62. Yes!

I wonder if Congress will do it though? In some ways I'm hoping not so they can spill what they know. I wonder what they know.

[Oilwellian]

76. Given today's media....

just who will run the ads?

This is the best news I've read all day. I may need to buy some stock in popcorn. :D

[ignatius 2]

78. Wow..these people are awesome. Turn on the light and watch the

cockroaches run like the wind is at their backs. I would love to see that list and for once see some accountability.

[Gabi Hayes]

79. What can you say....from Daniel Ellsberg to Sibel Edmonds

there are only a very very few people deserving the description "hero" (haven't read thread; not surprised if this is just a repeated sentiment, but it bears shouting from the rooftops til it gets the publicity of, oh, say, Monica Lewinsky)

and it's too bad Indira Singh's name isn't more well-known outside places like DU

[Just Me]

80. Those who persist, prevail. NEVER GIVE UP, EVER!!! n/t

[hootinholler]

81. Those aren't the names I want to hear from Sibel!

I want to hear the names that were in the materials she translated!

-Hoot

[FreedomAngel82]

126. I do too but

I think she's being careful now with what she gives off she knows. If she gives out too much leakage on what she knows could be damaging to herself. I think it says a lot that a republican and a democrat are working together to get them safe and protect whistleblowers. I remember watching something with Iraq on CSPAN and a whistleblower was supposed to be at the hearing (it was a democratic hearing and no republicans were there which I'm not surprised by even though they were invited and encouraged to come by the democrats) and the whistleblower didn't show up because they were getting threats to themselves and their families.

[MontageOfFreedom]

83. Bring the balast out of the window seat.....

I can tell you the vice on this government is about to get awful tight, and I don't think people like Jeb Bush have many more free tickets down freedom street anymore.

[rooboy]

84. kick. n/t

[Wiley50]

85. Any Astrologers here? This place is cookin' today?

By all available means.....

We must all support this courageous endeavor!

wiley

[MontageOfFreedom]

87. Toast to that. n/t

[fooj]

86. Holy Shit! What courageous patriots!!!

I have chills!:patriot:

TRUTH IS OUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON!

Peace.

[NVMojo]

90. Thank you, HEROES! It's time to de-pants the NEOCONS!!!

Where are Reid, Lautenberg, Boxer, Kennedy and all the other Dem leaders on this???

[MontageOfFreedom]

91. Hope they aren't hiding something. n/t

[NVMojo]

92. Do we know how this April 28th event turned out???

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

93. From the Washington Post and Kansas City Star

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801680.html

Whistle-Blowers Urge Congress to Get Tougher on Retaliation

By Stephen Barr

Friday, April 29, 2005; Page B02

A group of more than 50 whistle-blowers called on Congress yesterday to strengthen protections against retaliation by federal agencies when employees expose improper activities or mistakes that could damage homeland and national security.

Sibel Edmonds , a former FBI language specialist, has taken the lead in forming the group, the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition. She was fired as a wiretap translator after alleging that a co-worker was leaking information about an FBI investigation.


Among those joining Edmonds at the Capitol Hill news conference were Coleen Rowley , a retired FBI agent who faulted headquarters for not allowing Minneapolis agents to pursue a terrorism probe before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks; Mike German , a former FBI agent who said his career was "put on ice" after he reported wrongdoing; and John Vincent , a retired FBI agent who spoke on behalf of Robert Wright , a veteran agent who was fired after claiming the bureau had mishandled investigations of the Palestinian group known as Hamas.

continued http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801680.html



Posted on Fri, Apr. 29, 2005


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11517539.htm



Stronger whistleblower laws sought
New group wants to curb retaliation

Cox News Service


WASHINGTON — A newly formed group of national security whistleblowers called Thursday for Congress to overhaul legislation that protects federal employees when they expose wrongdoing in the government.

Members of the National Security Whistleblowers met with staff from the House Government Reform Committee and the Senate Judiciary and Armed Services committees to request stronger protections in the 16-year-old Whistle Blower Protection Act.

“We have no system in place that applies direct, individual accountability when it comes to retaliation against whistleblowers,” said Sibel Edmonds, an FBI whistleblower who started the coalition. “There is no deterrence for those who engage in government waste, fraud, abuse and criminal activities that jeopardize our nation's security.”

Edmonds alleged in a federal lawsuit that the FBI retaliated against her after she reported security breaches, including possible espionage, to her supervisors.

continued http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/11517539.htm

[Frederik]

104. As expected

"Sibel Edmonds , a former FBI language specialist, has taken the lead in forming the group, the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition. She was fired as a wiretap translator after alleging that a co-worker was leaking information about an FBI investigation."

That is of course not what her case is about at all (if it was, John Ashcroft wouldn't have invoked the state secrets priveliege now would he, Stephen Barr), but what would you expect from the Washington Post.

"The prospects for Markey's proposal are uncertain. He noted that he had offered the proposal as an amendment to the fiscal 2006 authorization bill for the Department of Homeland Security and that it had been rejected in committee on a party-line vote."

Again, as expected.

[Richard Steele]

95. We've been waiting SO LONG for this!

This coalition will be hard to ignore; especially when they start telling what they know and WHO they know it about.

This just might be HUGE.

[MontageOfFreedom]

96. No, this combined with the new media+vote fraud is huge. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

127. Maybe

with this it will open up doors to other investigation's to things like voting fraud and the Iraq occupation. More people are waking up I think. I've been hearing stories all week here on DU about that.

[G_j]

105. POGO press release:

http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0428-10.htm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
APRIL 28, 2005
11:28 AM
CONTACT: Project on Government Oversight
Danielle Brian or Beth Daley 202-347-1122 [email protected]


Government Fails to Protect Employees Who Blow the Whistle on National and Homeland Security Weaknesses

WASHINGTON -- April 28 -- Even after the September 11th terrorist attacks, the government has failed to create a safe haven for employees to bring forward their concerns about national security and homeland security weaknesses, according to a report released today by the Project On Government Oversight (POGO). The report release coincides with an event held today by the new National Security Whistleblowers Coalition, who are lobbying the Congress for more protections (see Press Advisory at http://www.justacitizen.org/articles_documents/FOR%20IMMEDIATE%20RELEASE%20A
pril%2026.htm).

Before the 9/11 attacks, whistleblowers such as the FBI's Colleen Rowley and the Transportation Security Administration's Bogdan Dzakovic vainly tried to persuade their agencies to address security weaknesses. If the government listened to them, the attacks might have prevented. Instead, for their patriotic efforts, they faced retaliation by their superiors. Despite Time Magazine naming 2002 "The Year of the Whistleblower," government employees face a far less glamorous reality: Being fired, harassed or blacklisted by their agencies.


Whistleblowers at most government agencies including the Department of Energy, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Defense of Department (civilian employees) who seek protections under the now defunct Whistleblower Protection Act, find that it has been dismantled in recent years by a series of judicial rulings that are hostile to whistleblowers.

But many whistleblowers, including those at the FBI, CIA and Transportation Security Administration (airport baggage screeners) were never protected by laws that would allow them to go to court to challenge the retaliation. Instead, they are resigned to appealing to people inside their agency for help help which almost never comes but, rather, results in more retaliation aimed at silencing their criticisms and concerns.


For example, last month, National Security Agency intelligence analyst Russ Tice was forced to report to an off-site government warehouse where he unloaded trucks. His crime? Reporting that a co-worker might be a Chinese spy. Tice awaits the result of a hearing held to determine whether he will lose his security clearance, a move that might stop his career short.

Last week, FBI agent Robert Wright was stripped of his badge and notified that he would be fired in 30 days. Like Colleen Rowley, Wright had expressed concerns about the handling of investigations into terrorism suspects. Wright's plight prompted columnist Bob Novak to author a column titled "Muzzling FBI's Whistle" after the FBI launched its fourth retaliatory investigation to harass him in 2003.

FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds similarly expressed her doubts about the agency's ability to pursue terrorists given numerous problems in its translation unit. Despite the fact that the FBI confirmed her allegations had merit, as did the Inspector General, she has faced a protracted legal struggle against powerful secrecy rules imposed upon her.

Three years after blowing the whistle, Bogdan Dzakovic of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is still being tormented by superiors at his agency. Dzakovic came forward with compelling information about how his commando Red Team was easily able to infiltrate airports with weapons prior to 9/11. Despite Dzakovic's considerable expertise, he spends his time at TSA doing such menial tasks as punching holes in training manuals and updating the agency phonebook.

"Congress has been derelict in its duty of ensuring that government employees can feel safe enough to express their concerns. Whistleblower retaliation sends a clear message to employees: Don't bother risking your career to improve homeland security. Security weaknesses fester under the cloak of government secrecy," said Danielle Brian, Executive Director of POGO.

In the coming days, Rep. Ed Markey (D-MA) is expected to introduce legislation which would extend genuine whistleblower protections to government and corporate whistleblowers.

POGO's report "Homeland and National Security Whistleblower Protections: The Unfinished Agenda," can be viewed here (Adobe Acrobat
file) http://www.pogo.org/m/gp/wbr2005/WBR-04282005.pdf . To learn more about the National Security Whistleblower's Coalition which is organized by Sibel Edmonds, visit her website http://www.justacitizen.org.

POGO investigates, exposes, and seeks to remedy systemic abuses of power, mismanagement, and subservience by the federal government to powerful special interests. Founded in 1981, POGO is a politically-independent, nonprofit watchdog that strives to promote a government that is accountable to the citizenry.

###

[NVMojo]

106. KICK!

[gandalf]

107. "How do you know they'll print it?"

Three Days of the Condor

Remember the failed trial of Michael Ruppert of http://www.fromthewilderness.com/ to get his dangerous ads through in 2003? They promised much (even that the ad would run in the NY Times), but somehow they were not printed.

[seemslikeadream]

108. Could you fix the link gandalf

Thanks

:hi:

[gandalf]

111. Sorry. Link is fixed.

:hi:

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

112. Kick for Edmonds...

Truth-teller and hero!

[clem_c_rock]

113. kick it

[HootieMcBoob]

114. kick

just to make damn well sure this stays :kick:

[DearAbby]

115. Healthy Kick

:applause:

[Digit]

116. Kick!

[jono]

117. Another Kick

:kick:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

130. Village Voice Article Posted on the 9/11 Board

Thanks Spooked911!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x37755

[DemonFighterLives]

131. nt

:kick:

[Toucano]

132. Good.

If it were me, and it is as bad as Sibel says, I think I'd have no choice but to violate the gag order and be sent to jail for contempt.

[Beam Me Up]

133. WOW! This thread is back! Good going, seems!

[seemslikeadream]

134. This is a different thread Beam Me Up

The LBN thread is still in Sept. 11 forum. I probably was confused about the votes that one had 37, I believe.

:hi:

[Beam Me Up]

136. I'm still waiting to hear

from admins regarding WHY a thread with so many nominations would be PULLED from the "Greatest" page long before its time was up. I just don't get it! :(