Ratzinger says pro death penalty Catholics can't receive communion

[Proud2BAmurkin]

When a "Christian" Repuke votes for a candidate BECAUSE the candidate is pro death penalty according to Ratzinger he is guilty of "formal cooperation in evil."

A person CAN vote for a pro death penalty candidate like Clinton if there are proportional reasons but can't vote for anyone BECAUSE of their PRO DEATH stand.

All Repukes who voted for Bush I over Dukakis because of the death penalty issue cooperated in evil and are not allowed to receive communion according to Ratzinger's doctrine.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3534-2004Sep7.html

"A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia," wrote Ratzinger, who is head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department charged with ensuring fidelity to church teachings.

But Ratzinger added: "When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons."

[TheFarseer]

1. Wow, that's more liberal that John Paul, isn't it?

He never issued the same statement about the death penalty as he did about abortion to my knowledge. Not a big deal to me. If you asked me straight up, I would say I'm pro death penalty, pro-choice, and pro-euthenasia(I basically want anything that will get the freeway moving, to steal a joke from Bill Maher I believe) but none of those are anything I would base my vote on.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

5. Exactly. John Paul never declared it was OK to vote pro choice

It was a shocking declaration from Ratzinger at the time, when he slapped the US fundie bishops.

[Walt Starr]

7. Read the actual statement, it was about abortion, NOT the DP

:eyes:

[Proud2BAmurkin]

10. Uh, and the DP would be different HOW?

The only difference is pro DP voters DO vote for the candidate FOR that reason so it would apply even more.

[Walt Starr]

13. The language used by JPII regarding the DP

is NOWHERE near as strong as the language regarding even birth control.

I expect Ratzinger to come out fully in favor of the DP.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

18. The pope came out to condemn the McVeigh execution

and said around the same time that the DP has never once been used morally in the US in the 20th century. If Ratzinger does come out in favor of it so much for his "traditionalism"

[wuushew]

20. How could the death penalty be more just in the past?

criminology appears to be an evolving and improving field. I find it hard to believe it reached its least unjust level during the golden age of the Inquisition.

[TheFarseer]

22. Hey, I didn't see a damn thing about the death penalty

I went back and read the article and I am thinking I was misled by the starter of this thread.

[Walt Starr]

24. Precisely! n/t

[Dervill Crow]

2. Hmmmmm.

A repuke co-worker just came in and indicated a great deal of displeasure about the selection, so I'm thinking this guy might be an okay choice.

His view about one-issue voting sounds reasonable.

[pacalo]

3. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If pro-choice candidates are refused communion, then pro-death penalty candidates are more unworthy of receiving communion.

Oh...but I forgot...there's a separation of church & state. Isn't this religious control what drove our forefathers to come to America & create a government free of religious oppression?

[FreedomAngel82]

6. It's things like this

why I don't like being a member of a church with a single ruler for the whole Church. If I want to take the communion and am baptized to do so I will receieve the communion. When the Church refused to give Kerry the communion for his stance on abortion I wanted to scream. It is religious oppression. I think this new Pope is going to cause a lot of problems for the Catholic church.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. The "church" didn't refuse to give Kerry communion

There are Repukes in the church's ranks who tried to make a political issue and that's why Ratzinger made his clarification.

[Dookus]

9. The catholic church

also isn't totally opposed to the Death Penalty, despite what many here believe.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

15. John Paul said the DP hasn't been used once justly in the 20th century US

He condemned the execution of McVeigh. If that's not as close to an all out ban except maybe for Hitlers, what is

:shrug:

[Dookus]

17. He could very simply

speak ex cathedra and say the Death Penalty is always wrong. He did not do so. My catechism says the DP is allowable.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. He didn't say 100% of cases but said ALL cases in US in 20th century

were wrong.

[Dookus]

21. and it had no official force

because it wasn't an official ruling on matters of faith and morals. Talk is cheap.

And even if he DID change the official policy, so what? Is that ONE issue worth hanging the entire charade that the church is progressive on? It's a far-right conservative institution.

Many, many more lives would be saved if they'd allow condoms. The DP thing hardly affects anybody.

[i miss america]

14. Yes and no. Remember the pilgrims and puritans came here so they could

openly practice their conservative religion and way of life.

It took a couple of hundred more years for the separation of church and state concept to be introduced.

[wuushew]

4. The lesser of two evils argument holds no water

in light of the many appealing third party candidates that run in elections. Is the church arguing that results (electoral math in the Presidential election) is more important than intent?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

8. They probably mean consult one's conscience in that situation

if voting a third party that conforms to Catholic church means the pro death warmongering Repuke wins they would probably say it was ok to vote for the lesser of 2 evils

[Quixote1818]

12. Thats good to hear. He may turn out to be not so bad after all. nt

[Ratty]

16. Absolutely not. He specifically says they CAN have communion

Also it was okay for Bush to wage a preemptive war on Iraq after all.

Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion ... There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia

http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-07ratzingerommunion.htm

[aneerkoinos]

23. Catholics and Death penalty

They can never absolutely condemn death penalty without condemning bunch of Popes and other good Catholics to hell. Remember Giordano Bruno, Huss, thousands and thousands others condemned to torture and death by Catholic Church.