Europeans Are "Falling Away" from the Church, NY Times Reports

[BurtWorm]

(As if it's news. :eyes: And in a weirdly alarmist tone.)

European apostasy is one reason why many expect the next pope selected will be European. But a European conservative clearly would not do the trick the church would want it to do.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/international/worldspecial2/19europe.html?

Only 21 percent of Europeans say that religion is "very important" to them, according to the often-cited European Values Study, conducted in 1999 and 2000 and published two years ago. A similar survey in the United States by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life put the number at nearly 60 percent.

...

Part of the problem is the church's emphasis on punishment and sin rather than on inclusion and community.

On the trip to France in 1980, early in his tenure, for example, Pope John Paul referred to the country by its historic title and asked, "Eldest daughter of the church, what have you done with your baptism?"

That approach, which some here dismiss as paternalistic, alienates many of Europe's Catholics, who insist that it is the church's leaders - not the faithful - who must change....

[Roland99]

1. Yet another way Europe is socially more advanced than the U.S.

[sui generis]

2. actually

about 2000 years of mutual and mass murder in the name of spreading christianity and consubstantiation versus transubstantiation has left most western Europeans with a very healthy distrust of religion taking a bigger role in their daily lives.

That's the real bottom line. I grew up in Europe - while religion is respected as a cultural tradition, it has definite boundaries in modern life, unlike here.

[BurtWorm]

3. It used to have boundaries even here.

They used to run public service ads years ago begging Americans to make religion more central to their lives. There was an organization back in the 1970s called RIAL--Religion in American Life. I don't know what happened to it. Hopefully it is now burying its head in shame for what it helped wreak. It seemed more "moderate" and ecumenical than the types who have taken over the point nowadays.

[DinahMoeHum]

4. As the late Lenny Bruce used to say, they are leaving the churches. . .

and going back to G*d.

:evilgrin:

[tinonedown]

5. Maybe they should reconsider

One soccer game (aka riot) is proof the Euros don't have the answer when it comes to society structure.

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Their "society structure" is far more Christian than ours

Church attendance has nothing to do with Christian "values" evidently.

[Taxloss]

6. I prefer the expression "rising from", not falling away.

But whatever.

[europegirl4jfk]

7. I live in France...

... and I think having another European pope wouldn't change anything here. The French people are a pretty secular bunch nowadays. We have the separation of Church and State and religion isn't a subject at all in daily life. My daughter went to a so-called catholic private school and even there they didn't talk about religion very much.

I grew up in a Protestant part of Germany and the situation in this country isn't much different. OK, the separation of State and Church isn't that strict and we had - and they still have - religious classes at school. But that's more about acquiring knowledge about the different world religions than anything else.

I'm actually glad about this trend here in Europe. This new American religious fanaticism frightens me and it's even more shocking to see Latin America drift the same way. I really think in the 21st century mankind should overcome religion, or at least scale it back to Sunday school, church and the private corner it belongs to, in my opinion.

[BurtWorm]

9. I'm envious of the trend.

I don't really understand why Americans fell away from secularization.