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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 01:55 PM
Original message
Canadians: A few historical questions
I know the Canadians gave refuge to Indian tribes and I know some of our Confederates would go to Canada for support.

Did you all have slavery? Did it become a problem like here? How about segregation and the need for civil rights?

In the early years did the Canadians treat Native Americans poorly? Or was that the Brits?

Where did Canada stand on WWII?

Your independence day is around our Thanksgiving (Nov), correct?
What year? Is Canada completely separate of UK? Did that happen gradually?

Any other important timeline items in Canadian history you might want to share?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. not Canadian, but some answers
Slavery became illegal in the British empire in the 1830s (I'm thinking 1835). This, of course, included Canada.

Canada entered WWII before the US did-I think at the time Great Britain did, in fact. I've known folks who served in the Canadian Navy during WWII. Some Americans, impatient with our neutrality, went to Canada to enlist in their army so they could fight.

I thought Dominion Day (or Canada Day-I know they changed the name) was July 2-help, Candians, on this one!

Please kindly correct any errors I made, as I respect your great nation.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. July 1
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. oops
sorry. I'll remember it, thanks for the correction!
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not Canadian. Some wiki stuff
Edited on Sun Apr-17-05 02:44 PM by DrDebug
Slavery in Canada
All in all it wasn't that much compared to most nations, but there were some slaves

--- --- --- --- --- ---
Slavery in Canada was first practised by some aboriginal nations, who routinely captured slaves from neighbouring tribes as part of their accepted laws of war. Among the European settlements, slavery appeared soon after the colonies were founded in the early 1600s. Most of their slaves were used as domestic house servants, although some performed agricultural labour.

Under French rule

The first recorded slave purchase occurred in New France in the region known today as Quebec; the year was 1628. The purchase was of a young boy from Madagascar, who was given the name Olivier Le Jeune.

By the early 1700s, Africans began arriving in greater numbers to New France, mainly as slaves of the French aristocracy. When the British took over in 1759, there were more than 1,000 slaves living in Quebec.

Under British rule

The British aristocracy also brought African slaves. Just after the American Revolution ended in 1783, British Loyalists brought over 2,000 African slaves to British Canada. Approximately 1,200 of the African slaves were taken to Nova Scotia, 300 to Quebec (Lower Canada) and 500 to Ontario (Upper Canada). A few others were taken to Prince Edward Island, Cape Breton Island, and Newfoundland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Canada

--- --- --- --- --- ---

Don't know that much about the treatment of Canadian Indians. It was shameful, but not that outrageous - which was close to a massacre - as in the United States. They were classified as human in the 60s which is pretty embarrassing. Lots of re-education took place as well. I can't find a good site on the web either. It can of course also partially blamed on the British and the French, but the Canadians probably did the lion share of mistreatment.

The other questions have been answered by ayeshahaqqiqa. Canada is not completely seperate from the UK, since it's still a part of the Commonwealth. So it is an independant nation, but not completely seperated from the UK. ( Take The Queen for example )
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DrDebug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Interesting wiki find. Canada has no WMD
Canada does not possess any weapons of mass destruction and has signed treaties repudiating possession of them. Canada ratified the Geneva Protocol in 1930.
(...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

I didn't know that. They have no nuclear weapons of their own; No biological weapons etc. From the by country list they are the only ones without any WMD.
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yvr girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Where do we stand on WWII?
Edited on Sun Apr-17-05 03:10 PM by yvr girl
That's such an odd question. We joined a week after it started. We waited a week mostly to prove our Independence. BTW, it started in 1939. Canada was automatically at war when Britain declared war in WWI. We played a major part. Our beach on D-Day was Juno.

We don't celebrate an 'Independence Day.' We celebrate Canada Day, and it's July 1. It was originally called, 'Dominion Day.' On July 1, 1867 the original provinces joined to form a country known as Canada.

Canada gradually gained its Independence. For most of our history, we were governed by the British North America Act. Prior to WWI we handled our own domestic affairs and Britain handled our foreign affairs.

Canada acquitted herself quite well in the madness that was WWI. We signed the Treaty of Versailles on our own. We've started to act more independently after that time, but we still technically had go to the Privy Council in London to make things official.

We actually didn't repatriate our constitution or institute our Charter of Rights and Freedoms until 1982. Britain was no longer our official overlord at that time. (We had been independent in an unofficial way for a long time at this point.)

Canada started as a business venture (the fur trade) and gradually became a country. Ours is a history is one of negotiation and compromise. Peace, Order and Good Government as opposed to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

As far as the human rights issues go, we like to think we are better than Americans (and we are) but our history isn't spotless. We had the Mild West as opposed to your Wild West (the Mounties kept things under control more or less.) Early in our history we basically wiped out a whole tribe/nation of Natives. We displaced the rest and put them on reservations.

Britain outlawed slavery long before we were even a country. The underground railroad came to Canada. We aren't blameless in this area either. Canada blocked many black people from entering our country for 'medical' reasons.

We interred Japanese Canadians during WWII. We also treated some German Canadians pretty poorly.
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mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. No offense meant by "stand on WWII" question
I had supposed that they went in with Britain but wasn't completely sure.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Excellent response!
The only thing I would add is the issue of residential schools for First Nations children, shameful action that is still reverberating with First Nations survivors. They were physically, emotionally and sexually abused after being forcibly taken from their families. The residential schools were run by both Catholic and Protestant organizations.

We still treat First Nations unequally and it is our continuing shame. Prime Minister Martin promised to make it a priority during this term but that promise has been made many times by many PMs and not much has been achieved.
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. As a Canadian, I'm so embarrassed
to say that I'm not really that knowledgeable about those things! I do know that our 'independence day' (Canada Day) is July 1st. And I'm pretty sure with WWII we joined in about a week after Britain (wanted to show our independence from them, b/c in WWI we had to go in the same time as they did as we were still tied to the UK).

We are pretty much separate from the UK although we are still part of the commonwealth. The queen is still our figurehead, but it's pretty much symbolic.
The complete separation happened gradually - I dont' know exact dates, but our armies were tied until after WWI, and we used the Union Jack as our flag until about 35 yrs ago.
Gosh I cannot believe how little I remember! And I have a Canadian History book that I've read a few times too. lol. Guess it wasn't a very good book!
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elare Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Joining WWII later ...
I could be wrong, but I thought the reason Canada joined a week or so after Britain was because they had to recall Parliament, and in those days travel was mainly by train and it took that long to get everyone back from the various provinces (they were in summer recess at the time).

History class was a long long time ago, but for some reason the above is my recollection.
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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. A few things.
Refuge to the Indian tribes, I take to mean this: <http://www.thehistorynet.com/we/blsittingbullandthemounties/> when Indians from Little Big Horn, most notably Sitting Bull came "Across the Medicine Line"

Great Britian declared war on Germany Sept 3/39.
Canada declared war on Germany Sept 10/39.

At the end of WWII Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world.

A vital time for the eventual development of Canada was the end of the American Revolution when many United Empire Loyalists (Tories in the US) came north. My Family were members of the King's Royal Regiment of New York, had lived in upstste New York, forced out and property conficated for the crime of fightoing on the losing side, moved to eastern Ontario and took up land near Kingston. It was theis influx of settlers that gave what is now Canada the population base to prevent US takeover in the War of 1812.

Red ensign

The Canadian Red Ensign was replaced by the red and white maple leaf flag on February 15, 1965.

Complete details here:
<http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/sc-cs/df5_e.cfm>

I'm kind of hard to shut up once I get started.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Keep talking!
I love to hear about Canadian history. I know that in some of the Maritimes (New Brunswick, I believe)still celebrate Loyalist Days, but I don't know the date.

How are the railroads in Canada? I know that they had a great system in the past, but I'm wondering if the system was more or less scrapped like the US system.

I've been to Canada twice-once in 1957 and once in 1962. Rode on my first limited access freeway in Canada in '62-did the marvelous highway system do in the railway?
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. "The Greatest Canadian":
Edited on Sun Apr-17-05 06:51 PM by Minstrel Boy
Tommy Douglas was recently voted "The Greatest Canadian".

Douglas formed the first socialist government in North America, was the first leader of the NDP, and the father of Canadian public healthcare.

He often told a political fable called "Mouseland," about a society of mice which kept electing cats. An animation of his telling can be downloaded from this page, introduced by Douglas's grandson, Keifer Sutherland.



Mouseland

It's the story of a place called Mouseland. Mouseland was a place where all the little mice lived and played, were born and died. And they lived much the same as you and I do.

They even had a Parliament. And every four years they had an election. Used to walk to the polls and cast their ballots. Some of them even got a ride to the polls. And got a ride for the next four years afterwards too. Just like you and me. And every time on election day all the little mice used to go to the ballot box and they used to elect a government. A government made up of big, fat, black cats.

Now if you think it strange that mice should elect a government made up of cats, you just look at the history of Canada for last 90 years and maybe you'll see that they weren't any stupider than we are.

Now I'm not saying anything against the cats. They were nice fellows. They conducted their government with dignity. They passed good laws--that is, laws that were good for cats. But the laws that were good for cats weren't very good for mice. One of the laws said that mouseholes had to be big enough so a cat could get his paw in. Another law said that mice could only travel at certain speeds--so that a cat could get his breakfast without too much effort.

All the laws were good laws. For cats. But, oh, they were hard on the mice. And life was getting harder and harder. And when the mice couldn't put up with it any more, they decided something had to be done about it. So they went en masse to the polls. They voted the black cats out. They put in the white cats.

Now the white cats had put up a terrific campaign. They said: "All that Mouseland needs is more vision." They said:"The trouble with Mouseland is those round mouseholes we got. If you put us in we'll establish square mouseholes." And they did. And the square mouseholes were twice as big as the round mouseholes, and now the cat could get both his paws in. And life was tougher than ever.

And when they couldn't take that anymore, they voted the white cats out and put the black ones in again. Then they went back to the white cats. Then to the black cats. They even tried half black cats and half white cats. And they called that coalition. They even got one government made up of cats with spots on them: they were cats that tried to make a noise like a mouse but ate like a cat.

You see, my friends, the trouble wasn't with the colour of the cat. The trouble was that they were cats. And because they were cats, they naturally looked after cats instead of mice.

Presently there came along one little mouse who had an idea. My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea. And he said to the other mice, "Look fellows, why do we keep on electing a government made up of cats? Why don't we elect a government made up of mice?" "Oh," they said, "he's a Bolshevik. Lock him up!" So they put him in jail.

But I want to remind you: that you can lock up a mouse or a man, but you can't lock up an idea.

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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. the British formed an alliance with the Iroquois ...
Edited on Sun Apr-17-05 08:17 PM by Lisa
In the early colonial days, Britain had a kind of tenuous hold on Canada -- they had defeated the French and claimed possession of Quebec, but there were more French Canadians than Anglos and the British knew that they didn't have the troops to contain a widespread rebellion. Ontario was still only sparsely settled, enough so that (as earlier posters have mentioned) the influx of 40,000 Loyalists leaving the new United States had a major impact on our society and culture to this day.

So the British forged alliances with friendly First Nations, in return for protection of their trading posts and territories, and military assistance in case you-know-who attacked. When the numbers of British settlers were still pretty low, the aboriginals had quite a bit of power. If it hadn't been for the Iroquois, the US would probably have gotten, if not all of Ontario, probably the bits by the border (including the "more scenic" side of Niagara Falls, which I still can't believe we got to keep!). The British promised the Iroquois all kinds of things, including most of the Grand River valley in central Ontario, to be their own forever. However, as the numbers of British residents increased, the arrangement became more lopsided in their favour, and bit by bit the promised lands were taken back. A similar pattern also happened on the West Coast. In the mid-1800s, cities like Victoria were virtually bilingual (with courts, businesses, schools, and even newspapers using native languages like Chinook Jargon). But later the government tried to "modernize" the First Nations and eradicate traditional culture, through things like the residential schools mentioned earlier.

Ironically, a lot of Canadian history is based on our scramble to grab land before the US could! That's why we were in such a rush to link up with the West Coast and settle the Prairies -- there was already a northward trickle of US farmers and prospectors, and the government in Ottawa was certain that it was only a matter of time before the former Hudson's Bay Company lands became de facto American states, due to "possession by right of population". So the feds gave British Columbia all kinds of incentives to join Confederation (including assurances of "a daily boat to Seattle and a weekly one to San Francisco" from Victoria) to keep them from signing a deal with the US. And they gave the railways large amounts of land in exchange for the promise of a transportation route to the Pacific. The Canadian government used lavish overseas ad campaigns and promises of free land to try to recruit new immigrants for the Prairies -- hundreds of thousands of people, from the Ukraine and Central Europe.

It's actually rather cringe-making to read the newspaper editorials from a hundred years ago. They heaped scorn on the Slavs, Poles, Italians, and others who weren't from the preferred northwestern Europe -- but the sentiment seemed to be, "anything so we aren't gobbled up by the Americans -- at least they aren't Asian or African!".

We did have slavery but it ended earlier than in the US (and some aboriginal groups on the coast had it as well, with slaves kidnapped from neighbouring tribes -- it seems to pre-date European contact). There was (and still is) a substantial black community in Nova Scotia, including descendants of people who'd escaped north prior to the Emancipation Proclamation. Unfortunately they too have faced discrimination (e.g., the story of Africville).

Before and during the 20th century, Canada experienced a civil rights movement of its own. A lot of groups had been unfairly treated -- the Chinese were exploited as labourers to build the railways (and there was actually a law passed to ban Chinese immigration). My entire family was interned with the other Japanese Canadians during the war -- they didn't have voting rights until 1947, and immigration from Japan, halted in wartime, wasn't okayed until the 1960s. Worse yet, we turned back boatloads of Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis, and sent them back to Europe to certain death.

The Canada you're looking at today is quite different than it was, only 3 or 4 decades ago. We changed our immigration policy so it focused on family reunification, skills, and refugees rather than on ethnic quotas. We instituted Medicare and other social programmes. We got rid of capital punishment. We changed the language laws (this is still controversial, but after talking to French-Canadians who were denied basic opportunities in the province their ancestors built, I'm starting to see why). We got the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982. Our ties with the UK are now largely ceremonial.

Many of the things that American DUers have complimented us on are part of this "new Canada". We got our new flag in 1965 and a lot of other things happened at the same time. Pearson and Trudeau and Douglas -- people like that re-made us. For sure, they were only human beings, and they didn't know whether this would work or what would happen in the long term. Compared to the US we often look wimpy, ephemeral, and -- to use a recent word -- dithering. I thought the country was going to break apart during that last referendum, and between that and the pressure to harmonize with the US, I don't know whether we will still exist in a hundred years.

But I hope so. I started teaching Canadian history and geography a couple of years ago, and the reading and thinking I had to do to get ready for that really forced me to address a lot of issues I'd never even considered before.

You might find this site useful:

http://history.cbc.ca/histicons/


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achtung_circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Just an add-on.
The English co-operation with the Iroquois dates from very early. The English used the Iroquois as a counterbalance to the French allies, primarily the Huron. The Iroquois succeeded in nearly wiping out the Huron, leaving Southern Ontario up for grabs. It was the absence of the Huron that enabled the British to offer land in Southern Ontario to the Iroquois.

More here:
<http://caca.essortment.com/huronindians_rjru.htm>

One of the milestones of this displacement was in 1647 when Iroquois captured Jesuit priests near present day Midland, Ontario. 3 of the priests were martyred.

After ritual torture, they had necklaces of red hot hatchet heads draped around their necks and were burned at the stake. Their courage was such that the Iroquois removed and ate the heart of Father Brebeuf.


The Jesuit mission to the Hurons has been rebuilt near Midland, nearby stands Martyr's Shrine.
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