You were born ignorant

[Solly Mack]

When you were born, you didn't know the "N" word was a racial slur.

When you were born, you didn't know sexism or racism or homophobia existed.

When you were born, you didn't know about hate.

You had to learn all those things. Someone had to teach you about all of those things.

Maybe you learned the hard way, by being on the receiving end of someone else's ignorance.

Maybe you learned because your parents or some other adult made it a point of teaching you...of preparing you.


But you still had to learn...you were not born knowing. Someone had to tell you or show you.

Doesn't it then stand to reason that there are other expressions of hate and bigotry that you might not know are expressions of hate and bigotry? Even if you don't know that "you don't know."...

Can bigotry and prejudice be so ingrained into a society, or segment of society, that unless you're shown, or it is explained to you, that something is offensive, you will never know?

Since you had to learn to begin with...is it not a continuing learning experience?

So is it possible that people say and do all kinds of things that are offensive without knowing their words and deeds are premised in ignorance and hate? That they have yet to learn?


If your experiences of life are such that you aren't touched by an expression of ignorance and bigotry, because it doesn't apply to you (for whatever reason-you're straight, you're white, you're whatever, etc.)...so you never saw it as being steeped in prejudice and hate...because the reality that applies to other people doesn't apply to you...are you still guilty of promoting that ignorance? that bigotry? Or does your ignorance absolve you? Maybe it's just something you haven't learned yet...but need to learn.


Since you had to learn about racism, sexism, and homophobia....is it fair to say you might not know every single stereotype or it's negative impact on the people harmed by that stereotype?

If promoting ignorance and bigotry, by definition, perpetuates prejudice and hatred, do we have an obligation to continue to learn how words and actions can have negative consequences for everyone involved?

Thoughts?

[LiviaOlivia]

1. You've Got To Be Carefully Taught

from South Pacific
Song: You've Got To Be Carefully Taught
Rodgers and Hammerstein

You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

[Solly Mack]

2. I've always liked that tune

thank you!

[jody]

3. And too many people die ignorant! n/t

[Solly Mack]

4. Yes, that's all too true

sadly...

[tubbacheez]

5. That's why I don't blow up at clueless intolerance.

It's the people who teach hate or who perpetuate intolerance and bigotry that I save my energies for.


For the cluelessly intolerant, I prefer to teach and guide, rather than attack.

[Solly Mack]

6. I agree with that approach

though sometimes I lose my patience along the way...

[tubbacheez]

11. Yeah, you and me both. We're human. And I'm much better now

than I was in my younger years.

[SmokingJacket]

7. You don't stop learning when you leave school.

I've learned SO much more since I graduated from college.

And it's the subtle things that you learn later in life.

Some years ago I used the word "oriental" to mean an Asian person. Now, I didn't mean it in a derogatory way, but the friend I was with winced. He said "We don't say that anymore." I was annoyed and embarrassed at the time. In retrospect... I see that one must understand the linguistic nuances of one's culture. "Oriental" is a word used for rugs, not for people except -- by racists. Things change; ya gotta keep up.

Sooner or later I'm going to have to give up my rotary phone, too...

[Solly Mack]

8. lol! I'm actually thinking of going back to my rotary

You make great sense!

Thank you. :)

[Just Me]

9. I think we all lose our humanity the day we suppress empathy.

A clinically proven stage of our development is empathy. Whether during childhood, puberty, adulthood or aging,...the day we decide to suppress or push aside or sacrifice empathy in order to survive or advance ourselves is the day we lose our humanity.

We always, always, always have the capacity to choose empathy which is a part of our being.

That is my opinion.

[Solly Mack]

10. Thank you, Just Me

I think there's truth to what you said

[Solly Mack]

12. *kick* I really would like more thoughts

and opinions..

Thanks, everyone!

[Just Me]

16. Me, too! More thoughts on understanding ourselves!!!

How can we ever step confidently into the future without understanding what we have been, what we are,...today?

[Solly Mack]

17. Good point!

Moving forward requires looking at where we are now...and who we are now.

[kiki]

13. Well,

In the "nature/nurture" debate, I think the answer always lies somewhere in between. Some people just have their brains wired up in a way that makes them more likely to be little bastards.

And in this modern age of interconnection and intercommunication, it's harder to have your perceptions go unchallenged than ever before. This is particularly true in the situation in which your country finds itself today. When it all goes to shit and all the right-wing shills start crying, "We were lied to! How were we to know?" That's when the supposed other 49% of the country, who've spent every day trying to tell them, "You're being lied to", will raise a weary eyebrow and quell the urge to say the world's biggest ever "I told you so".

[Solly Mack]

14. I agree on the nature/nurture (answer in between) and

you're right...it does seem almost improbable that people could plead ignorance in this day and age.


not saying "I told you so" to the right-wing proves to be a struggle for me. I know I got to live with them afterward...but I really, really want to rub their noses in it.

and that may well be something I need to work on....regarding other aspects

Thank you!

edit:typo

[kiki]

15. Of course,

this is always assuming that, when America is literally falling apart around them, the right-wingers have the slightest idea that the situation is their fault in any way.

Which could be an outside shot at best.

[mediaman007]

18. I'm very proud of my children...

Each carries respect for others. They do not look down at or seek to gain from those who do not have. Further, they expect more from those with means. I hope that they will continue to promote these characteristics in my grandchildren.

[Solly Mack]

20. And their first teacher was you

Thank you for sharing!!!

[LiviaOlivia]

19. kick

[Solly Mack]

21. another kick for the night shift

:)

[mark414]

22. i think this is the ultimate problem with race relations today

after all the civil rights legislation passed, we went from de jure to de facto racism (though i'm sure many folks believe that all that legislation just *poof* magically cured inequality and racism)

couple that with the fact that reagan made racism okay again, and american's short memories and that brings us to present day.

due to our segregated society (as in, white people stay away from everyone else), white folks, for the most part, are completely unaware of just how deep some of the problems go for the 30% of our population who aren't "lucky enough" to be white. i saw someone in a different thread equate it to asking a fish describe water; a fish doesn't know what water is, a fish has no idea what it is he's swimming in, he just goes, and swims, because that's all he's ever known. and what happens when you take a fish out of water? he flops around desperately. what happens when a clueless white person is confronted with the reality of the situation, or is asked to support programs, legislation, ideas, whatever in order to advance equal rights? he flops around desperately because he does not understand what is going on.

and what of the white folks who do have some basic idea of inequality? good intentions aside, we see a patronizing, white savior attitude; "oh those poor black folks, we need to help them, we need to lift them up!" now the intentions are good but the attitude is terrible. NOBODY needs someone else to lift them up. all that's necessary is a willingness among white people to open the door, which we have seen to a small extent in the past few decades, though many doors remain closed.

i think i'm starting to just rant and lose my train of thought now, but i would like to end by saying that as a white man, i realize (to the best of my abilities) what my privilege means every single day. and i'm not going to patronize black folks by feeling sorry for them or feeling like i have an obligation to "help them." fuck that, black folks are strong; you've gotta be strong to put up with all the shit that's been thrown their way all these years. no, my obligation is to work to educate those who can relate to me because i look like them, to get people to understand how much power they have just because of the color of their skin, no matter how poor or rich they are. my job is to just make sure that those doors can be opened.

i think that's it.

[Solly Mack]

23. You rant well!

I loved the fish analogy! I believe it was Karenina who said it.

It's entirely apt too.

When you try and explain the "whys" of it all, you're confronted with a real defensive attitude...which further hinders the fish out of water. The fish will never know and understand if the fish refuses to listen and learn.

But then, the fish doesn't have a stake in learning and understanding... he's comfortable in his own water.

Thanks, mark!

[mark414]

24. yeah that's basically what i was trying to say

though i think you said it better

namely, people don't think about it because they don't HAVE to. their life is cool and they don't have to worry about it.

but some of us white folks DO get it (at least as much as i can) and i'm working hard to increase those numbers

thanks for the original post!