Let Them Kill The Filibuster

[JackD76]

I understand what the pugs are trying to do by getting rid of the filibuster and I understand that it is a horrible abuse of power but you all should let it happen. Sometimes, something really bad has to happen before people's eyes are opened. Right now, in our country, we have a quite disapproval of Bush and his psychotic agenda but disapproval alone won't stop him. Many people believe that the republicans have to do something so terrible, so crazy, that people will say enough is enough. Some people believe that it will be the draft, some believe that it will be an attack on Iran, some believe that it will be another great depression that will cause people to rise up and drag these bastards out of Washington. However, I believe that killing the filibuster and the democrats push back, will show people how corrupt the republicans are. This could be the great conflict that wakes up the nation and give the democrats a much need spine. So, while the death of the filibuster won't be really bad at first, it will help us in the long run. That is why we should all sit back, say nothing, and let them hang themselves.

[skylarmae]

1. Jack, jack, jack!

NO NO NO NO NO - IMHO

[NMDemDist2]

2. saying nothing has never been my strong suit n/t

[MessiahRp]

3. Yeah..

that was the theory last year when we let them fuck Medicare over too.

The problem is so far we haven't won enough to go fix anything. I say let's not give those fuckers an inch. They've taken enough.

Rp

[Bluebear]

4. No atrocity seems to 'wake up the nation'

NASCAR and the new Joe Millionaire must be on.

No, letting them kill the filibuster would be one of the final nails in the coffin of what was the United States. That and the stifling of the judiciary branch. I think we are in full crisis mode now. Hoping that any subsequent event will 'open people's eyes' is wishful thinking, nothing up to now has.

[leyton]

5. We did that with Schiavo.

It may well work in that case because of the press attention it got.

But people know of their efforts to stop the filibuster, whether they succeed. Whether it happens or not will probably not change things.

[tx_dem41]

6. The average, independent voter doesn't pay attention to this ..

.."inside baseball" stuff. I'm starting to believe that other than sex scandals no one cares.

Respecfully, this proposed idea is not a good one.

[jen4clark]

7. I'm wondering too...

Please read this article and let me know if I'm crazy for thinking Jack might be right?

Hoping for a Mushroom Cloud
http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/archive/002456.shtml

Eliminating the filibuster of Democrats against judicial nominations has been deemed the "nuclear option" by GOP leaders. Hear's hoping for an atomic meltdown.

There is something inherently repellant about progressives rising to the defense of the filibuster, the tool of racists and segregationists for a century. But even at the pragmatic level, the short-term fear of bad GOP judicial nominations ignores the longer-term losses progressives have suffered from the existence of the filibuster. Which some conservative groups opposing the end of the filibuster understand:

(cont.)
http://www.nathannewman.org/laborblog/archive/002456.shtml

[shadowknows69]

15. I too see the desperate logic in this.

absolute power corrupts absolutely right? I know they're pretty damn close already but, I guarantee the face of this country would change so quick our heads would spin (mine is already) and it might just be the extreme catalyst we need for these extreme times.

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. What are you, a Trotskyite?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. NOT a good idea, Jack. Bad, bad, bad idea!

That is something we would never recover from. EVER.

[XanaDUer]

11. No, I don't think so.

That would open up a can of worms that could never be put back in again.

[Bunny]

12. Ralph? Ralph Nader? Is that you?

[BillZBubb]

13. Sure, unconditional surrender is always a sure way to victory!

Please!

If the Repug gerrymandering in Texas last year didn't wake people up, loss of the filibuster won't do much either.

We need to FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT them at every turn. We don't need any more laying down before the first shots are even fired.

[rodeodance]

14. to the poster-don't you realize that many people do not -will not even

realize when something bad does happen!! good grief!! you want over the filibuster!!--no way!!

[Jazzgirl]

16. Hmmmm....

::crickets chirping::

[Bluebear]

28. MM-hmm.

[Toby109]

17. Yeah...right....

People win when they decide not to fight back. We've seen it time and time again. The republicans have already done something terrible. They nominated Ronald Reagan to head their party. And Democrats have been laying down ever since.

[damntexdem]

18. No, defend it.

It's the last line of defense.

[coloradodem2005]

19. It would set a very bad precedent.

And it would not be enough of a spectacle to wake the Joe Millionaire, Apprentice, American Idol watching crowd of America up.

[WilliamPitt]

20. What an amazingly bad idea

Read:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38308-2005Apr8.html

You want *these* people to have the unfettered ability to appoint lifetime judges? I think not.

The "Let things get worse so they can get better" philosophy makes me want to break things.

[walldude]

26. Thanks for the link Will...

Nothing like invoking Stalin to defend your "family values" principles :eyes:

[HuskiesHowls]

21. Bad Idea!!

Although they're talking about killing it only in regards to judicial nominations, those judges will be there for possibly decades after this (mis)administration is long gone.

Can you imagine having to put up with the kind of decisions and the precedents that would be set for the rest of your life, and possibly even your kids lives??? I know that I don't want to, and I fear what far-right fundamentalist judges could do to this country.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. It didn't work for "The Producers" and it won't work for us...

besides, we are squishing them on social security and we didn't even filibuster the Shiavo bill and we are squishing them there too.

Hey, perhaps we could write to bush and sell him on your idea, Jack. We convince him to appoint some qualified liberal SCOTUS judges (anti death penal, pro-choice, pro-consumer, pro-environmental) and test your idea.

Of course if your idea works for bush, we'll be dead; I could live with that.

[zalinda]

23. If it would be great........IF the average

person actually KNEW what a filibuster is.

zalinda

[VOX]

24. It's like believing the use of nukes would make the world sane again...

Which is not only throwing out the baby with the bathwater, it's destroying the entire reservoir and making it toxic for decades.

Not a good idea.

[Egalitariat]

25. With the exception of SCOTUS, most people don't care about judge appts

And nobody outside of DU and other political hobbyists will bat an eye when they start letting judges threw with only a majority vote.

It's sad. But it's true.

[Melynn]

27. No way

If the Republicans run amok there won't be a country left to save.

[mmonk]

29. Destroy the US as we have known it in.....

order to save it?

[Terran1212]

30. "Let Bad Things Happen So People Wake Up"

I read a Zinn interview on this, and he strongly disagreed with this kind of action-to-provoke-reaction politics. I think I do, too. It could backfire in our faces.

[Jazzgirl]

31. Interesting....

You start these threads and never post any follow-up. Waiting....

::more crickets chirping::

[mattclearing]

32. This is like the Nader argument.

In order to get better it has to get worse. It's foolish.

You are arguing to give crazy people with way too much power more power.

Whatever the rationale, that's inexcusable.

[Tactical Progressive]

33. If I knew for a fact that Dems would take the Senate and House

in 2006, then the Presidency in 2008, I'd say yes, we could live with that for a year even if it's wrong as wrong can be.

But we don't know that, and what happens in that year, and possibly the next four or six years, will corrupt the judicial integrity of this country for a decade at least. And this is going to be a tough decade coming just trying to get back from nearly a quarter century of Republican mis-governance.

[RedCappedBandit]

34. NO

Good intentions, but I tend to like filibusters ;)

Why? Because they are kind of like a last stand that even the underdog can use.. and right now, we're the underdogs ;)

[beyurslf]

35. I think most people don't know what a "filibuster" is and even fewer

know why removing it is an abuse of power. Fewer still will care. And if the "crazy activists" like who do know these things and care about them could bring down the republican regime, it would have happened when Bill Clinton was in office.

The draft is the one I think that will do it. Everyone knows what it is. No one likes. And when moms start having their sons sent to some desert to fight in a war.... people will start pulling their heads out of their asses and all of sudden banning gay marriage won't seem like the most important thing facing this country.

[Tactical Progressive]

40. I don't think even a draft would turn the corner

You need to understand Republicans better. If their kid gets drafted, that's one thing. If the kid down the street gets drafted, that's not their problem.

That's the way they are with everything. There is no big picture, there is only what is good for them and what they want. When they have a job, they really couldn't care less about anyone that doesn't have one. In fact, other people being unemployed makes their position relatively that much more advantageous. Someone else being shut out of medical care is tough luck. 45 million people without coverage is meaningless. 1 person being denied coverage is a travesty.

That's how they deal with all things. If their kid isn't inducted to fight and die, then they are still 'staunch' Republicans.

Three dollar gas means more to them. That extra twenty for a fillup out of their pocket means more to them than your kid's life ever could.

Republicans only change anecdotally, by what goes into their pockets, what comes out of their pockets, and whether they are personally affected by any given policy.

[LeahD]

36. I don't like that strategy one little bit. n/t

[cidliz2004]

37. Filibuster not big enough issue/event

for non activist voters maybe some of the moderate/Republicans will wake up, but not enough to make a difference

[Swamp Rat]

38. Let Them Kill The Iraqis

I understand what the fascists are trying to do by getting rid of the Iraqis and I understand that it is a horrible abuse of power but you all should let it happen. Sometimes, something really bad has to happen before people's eyes are opened. Right now, in our country, we have a quite disapproval of Bush and his psychotic agenda but disapproval alone won't stop him. Many people believe that the fascists have to do something so terrible, so crazy, that people will say enough is enough. Some people believe that it will be the draft, some believe that it will be an attack on Iran, some believe that it will be another great depression that will cause people to rise up and drag these bastards out of Washington. However, I believe that killing the Iraqis and the democrats push back, will show people how corrupt the fascists are. This could be the great conflict that wakes up the nation and give the democrats a much need spine. So, while the death of the Iraqis won't be really bad at first, it will help us in the long run. That is why we should all sit back, say nothing, and let them hang the Iraqis.

[Vektor]

41. That's about the size of it.

Funny how that works, huh?
:-)

[Swamp Rat]

42. Amazing what simple word substitution will do.

:)

[derby378]

39. No fucking way

Consider this paragraph:

I understand what the Nazis are trying to do by getting rid of the Jews and I understand that it is a horrible abuse of human rights and human dignity but you all should let it happen. Sometimes, something really bad has to happen before people's eyes are opened. Right now, in our country, we have a quite disapproval of Hitler and his psychotic agenda but disapproval alone won't stop him. Many people believe that the Nazis in Germany have to do something so terrible, so crazy, that people will say enough is enough. Some people believe that it will be the draft, some believe that it will be the takeover of England, some believe that it will be another great depression that will cause the German people to rise up and drag these bastards out of Berlin...

See what I mean?



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