Hate Radio - cause of another American civil war (like Rwanda)?
Will people like Hal Turner, Rush, Hannity, and the likes, cause violence against liberals? Would Americans kill other Americans again because of the hate spewed by these people?
Some of these people have been on the air for over 15 years inciting hatred for Dems and liberals. Hate radio was given a lot of credit in the genocide that happened in Rwanda, and that hate has continued to cause loss of life in Darfur. Talk is dangerous.
2. I remember thinking that right after the election.
How Bush had everyone in the palm of his hand (he's squandered that, like he squanders everything, of course, but this was then). There was so much "righteousness" on the behalf of the other side that they really did feel like God was on their side, and if their great leader so much as said, "This victory shows what part of the American people is with us and which part is against us," there would have been blood.
I firmly believe that.
I also think that the echo-chamber the right-wing hate radio provides can definitely be a force for evil. People really believe everything they hear, for all the "librul media" crap they spew.
6. I have seen a few comments made in freeperland and maybe
reading about what Hal Turner said, that liberals are not even human. Dehumanizing was one of the hate radio tactics in Rwanda, calling Tootsies (sp?) cockroaches. Also, didn't that happen in Germany when hitler didn't think the Jews were human? To seriously sick right-wing nutjobs, making liberals less than human will make them easier to kill.
the following is from a LTTE that I wrote in response to a column in my local newspaper by Joseph Perkins:
"Perkins column is not a reasoned discussion of ideas, but a vitriolic attack against people who oppose the Iraq war and/or oppose Bush. Look at the words he uses to describe us (Americans like me who exercise our constitutional right to oppose Bush and all his insidious ideas) - "ugliest, decayed, degraded, miserable creature, unworthy, perverse, absurd, and knee-jerk critics". We are motivated, he says, by politics, not by principle. The principled people marching to oppose war are "useful idiots" according to Perkins. He is talking not only about war protestors and "Bush-bashing opinion writers," but also "those stumping for the Democratic presidential nomination". Finally, he ends his hate-filled column by once again insinuating that we are traitors - "Their opposition, their criticism is fuel not so much by reason, but by hatred - toward their president or toward their country.""
When you mentioned de-humanising, I thought of how he called us "miserable creatures". I concluded:
"That would be an interesting test. If Bush tried to: raise the minimum wage, help the unemployed and working poor, protect the environment, prosecute corporate crimes, appoint moderates as judges and cabinet members, enhance civil liberties, raise taxes on the top 5%, tell the truth and admit his mistakes, call for more cooperation and less vitriol, or try to create peace - if he did some of that, would we still hate him? Please try it, Mr. President. Could Perkins point to some of Bush's positive accomplishments instead of bashing Bush's critics? Does Perkins think it is wrong to hate a President who lies to us? Is it wrong to write: "And it is because of the sum total of his transgressions ... that is no longer fit to occupy this nation's highest office." or "And your man, the president, is a scoundrel of historic rank." Certainly that is what we believe when we read David Corn's "The Lies of George W. Bush", but those two quotes were written on 9-18-98 and 8-18-98 as part of the odious oeuvre of Joseph Perkins - an apostle of a gospel of hate."
50. Yes, you're correct on Hitler and his dehumanizing the Jewish...
He had propaganda films made that were juxtaposed with pictures of rats. He called them rodents, less than rodents. That was part of the brainwashing that occurred to desensitize people from standing up to his Jew-baiting hatred.
Unfortunately, I do not think we have learned very much at all, as we witness glaring similarities between what we consider a dark part of history and an all too melancholy present. I do not think we will avoid it, and while I do not think we will take that exact path, we sure seem to be following a road map of some sort.
I made a mental note of it and then moved on to other things, but I don't know if this is the beginning of de-humanization of liberals or if those were just isolated instances. I guess we will just have to keep paying attention.
I believe we're in a cold phase of a civil war now, the catalyst for the shooting is yet to come. The nation is becoming more polarized each day and discourse, which was already strained, has devolved into shouting matches. The local fundamentalists have spoken up on a local Freeper-type call in program and have officially labled us as evil. Several callers have stated that our "evil" must be confronted and fought. Now, that said, it's not too much of a cognitive leap to include "kill" into the equation. Arm yourselves, buy extra canned goods, network with trusted neighbors, and prepare before it's too late.
...I know that sounds weird, but I really hope they do lose it and just start trying to take us out. Maybe then the rest of the country will see how insane they are. They've alread lost A LOT of respect from a lot of people after this whole mess (yeah, its amazing but some people actually did have and for some reason even still do have respect for that terd). But yeah, I get a kick out of seeing these protesters - the Randall Terry's and the like - they are being exposed for the whacko nutjobs that they are. Ill be a martyr. Bring em on. Come get me motherf*rs. Im not afraid.
8. I am absolutely positive that Limbaugh had a huge influence on my
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:06 PM by CrispyQGirl
mother. She had just gone through a wicked divorce (equally her fault) & then suffered a major health crisis & started listening to that hateful, fat-ass windbag. In 15 years, she has gone from being a kind-hearted, generous, fun person to hang with to being a mean-spirited, hateful racist who's only fun in life seems to be provoking everyone she comes into contact with.
O'Reilly has become her new master the past 5 years or so & her meanness has gotten worse. I hate these fuckers!
I absolutely believe that given the right circumstances they can & will incite violence against liberals.
with bitterness and ill feelings due to hate radio. Our family gatherings are fraught with hostility and anger. The hate-radio folks get outraged by anyone who disagrees with whatever drivel Limbaugh, O'Reilly, whoever has spouted. Nevermind what you've read or experienced. They worship the hate-talkers. They've turned sensible, caring people into people who mistrust and fear. I'm sorry for you. And for me. For all of us. These hate radio/TV hosts are a plague.
25. I think adrenaline is part of it, honestly. It gives people a "high,"
and also encourages them to see the targets of hate radio as the cause of all their difficulties. I never understood the appeal of hate radio, even when it was first starting. It seemed dangerous to me then, and even more dangerous now.
The scary thing about human nature is that it's so easy to inflame people, encourage hatred, and induce violence. And most don't have the objectivity to realize that they're being played.
On the other hand, I notice sometimes that the * admin goes in the completely other direction and tells us that "everything is OK, everything is working out, don't worry, be happy". We even joke about it here on DU. That kind of indoctrination is just as dangerous, putting us to sleep while they work on the "business of the day".
it's the sense of having a purpose. Of feeling something other than malaise and impotence. They're doing something! Hating! Look at the photos of the folks down in Florida praying for Ms. Shaivo. They now have purpose. They're not out helping the poor or the dispossessed. They're not working or taking care of their children. But they have a reason. AND the limelight. They finally count. It's all about them. Their egos. Terri Shaivo is merely the catalyst for their own beneficence.
to the point of outright rancor. Too many hate-radio listeners rely only on hate-radio and cite what they hear as "news". It's not. It's propaganda without respect for facts. But it's successful. And that's what the purveyors care about -- the revenue. Nevermind that this discourse is ruining our country with division and obsession with lies. Hundreds of people are now employed to lie. Either on the radio or through Swiftboat Liars or the hired guns on Faux. There is no understanding of truth. As a result, we are becoming a nation with those who read and care about our country, and those who are led around by the power elite.
tim mcveigh said he believed the country was doomed cuz of clinton and liberalism and political correctness....when he was in jail he met ted 'unibomber' kazcynski and their discussions were recounted in a book by a couple of buffalo ny journos....mcveigh realized his hate for the federal gov was mistaken...his ideas (all the militia movement/posse comitatus/survivalist/white supremists) were fed by hate radio backed up by the msn, mainly fox and cnn...several msn bigshots, including limbah-humbug, have denied they inspired the okl city bombing...mcveigh also felt gulf 'war' 1 was bs..the iraqis had no chance...mcveigh killed 2 iraqis who were too far away to shoot back, and he felt it was murder..... the rightwing led the anti mcveigh chorus in case anyone noticed...his trial/execution happened fast, in part because tim felt he had been greiviously mistaken, and helped the bfee to get rid of him...at the end, mcveigh had become 'one of ours' or at least that's the impression i got from the book...the nazipoos of course felt they dodged a bullet with mcveigh, and emboldened, things like the swift boat vet scam are almost inevitable.... SO remember this MANTRA! the okl city bombing was inspired by rush limbo and the US media! they can deny all they want, but being fukking liars, no one (not even freepers) can believe them! and this time, osama and arabs etc can't be used to muddy the water!
46. actually (ahem) you do know that the bomb used at Okl City
wasn't a fertilizer/diesel fuel smoker....it was a 'air fuel' type that caused extreme static in the moments before it blew....mcveigh of course knew his homemade bomb had nothing to do with 168 deaths (had the ryder truck bomb blown up by itself, no one inside the murrah building would've been hurt...like KAL 007, or like flight 587, or like the Kennedy assasination, or like hinckley case, or like 911, or the public effort to blackmail the United Nations by bushinc in days before the iraq invasion, the phony mathematics just doesn't explain the results...and the bfee gets away with it cuz it's just easier to accept bs then consider what the truth means (we've been conquered, at least news wise)...the book i mentioned never even touched on these facts...they went along with the fiction that the fertilizer bomb actually exploded to 8000 degrees (or whatever the Ok city bomb attained) lol...
fox'news' is an oxymoron iow a buncha bs....lol. nevertheless, when one wants to create an exxagerated sense of a propaganda news org, the word 'foxnews' does it better then...even better then 'pravda' or 'tass' ever did!...
people make on who to believe. Never mind that the men who actually served on the boat with Kerry stood up with him, literally, and put their names and faces on the line. Never mind that all of his medals were found to be deserved. The truth no longer matters. It's ideology only. The truth is gone. You can give all the hard facts straight out to a hate-radio listener and it just doesn't matter. They want to stay with Rush or Bill or Sean. The truth is scary and complex. The hate-talkers are fear-based manipulators. Truth has no place in their arsenal.
in Newton Co AR in the mid 90s, there was a proposed sale of timberland to big business. Local environmentalists, who knew that local loggers would not clear cut with a lot of damage, opposed the move. The big business brought in speakers who told the locals that we were out to 'destroy their way of life'. This load of fertilizer was reinforced by the local newspapers and radio. Our message was lost-and then the worst started happening.
Several people, myself included, were followed closly by cars, lights flashing, who tried to run us off the road while we were driving to work (luckily at the time, I was working for a state supported institution, and had a friend follow me home in a van with an official state seal. The harrassment stopped.). Around midnight one night, a drunk local and his buddy came to our house with loaded guns, ready to kill my husband. It was only when he told them he worked for a local logger-and to call to verify-that they left. One of my fellow environmentalists wasn't so lucky. He was severely beaten and his house burned to the ground. The perpetrators were never prosecuted, either, as far as I know.
Ironically, the big loggers came in, clear cut, wasting trees and destroying beauty-and didn't hire one local to help, either. Since then local loggers, including my husband's employer, have had to go our of business.
18. I think one of the only things that will prevent such a thing,
is the fact that we're mixed together and not geographically separated as was the north and south in the civil war....no ghettos to separate libs' from Conservatives .... no skin color to give away your idenity..if it were not , I feel that we would be headed that way
24. What's Really Happening Is That Hate Radio Is Filling The Void
Edited on Mon Mar-28-05 06:35 PM by Yavin4
left by the economic devastation of our economy. Contrary to what the economic spinmeisters say, our economy is in a horrid state. The fastest growing economic class in America is the working poor. These are the people who are working 2 or 3 jobs, yet they're still poor. People are far less secure in their economic lives than at any time since the Great Depression. In fact, for millions of Americans, they already are in the Great Depression.
Enter hate radio and enter Christian evangelism. Both of these groups fill the void by pointing to a scapegoat, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Gays, African Americans, Immigrants, and Liberals. The insecurity gets translated into anger and rage at the other. The next step is violence, and the Schiavo case gives them license to commit violence, esp. when U.S. senators refer to judges as "tyrants". Folks, that's almost a license to kill.
I'm afraid that things will get worse long before it gets better. Make plans to either fight or leave. I'm choosing to leave.
103. Because they give people a target for their frustrations
Hate radio jocks like Limbaugh boil everything down into the most simplistic of black-and-white views and give listeners someone to blame (other than themselves) for all of life's problems (immigrants, gays, liberals, working women, academics, Muslims - you get the picture)!
In the short run, I suppose, many people are more comfortable blaming someone else for whatever may be going wrong in their own lives. In the long run, obviously, it solves nothing and creates a society of intolerance and fear.
82. I know that so many of us are against guns. . .
But this is one very good reason for us to be armed. I know that if any of these wingnuts try attacking me or mine, I will happily send them to an early meeting with their maker.
There is no need for us to be like sheep led to the slaughter. They need to know that there is a very definite price to be paid for attacking "liberals." If the single brain cell that the whole lot of them have among themselves ever tells them to listen to the perverse advise of the pigboy and initiate any type of attack against us, I hope (for the sake of dear Liberty) we will be found ready to meet them.
And yes, I DO hope that the "can less than a six-pack" crowd at Freeper central read this.
39. If you know some of the people I know... (*shudder*)
I've seen lots and lots of pissy, angry, gun-owning morons given "lib'ruls" as a proper place for their anger over the fact that the economy is tanking and the fact that their lives are so crappy. Don't say I'm stereotyping; I *KNOW* these people. Until a few years ago, I was friends with some of them; hell, I was almost one of them.
They never blame themselves or take actual responsibility for their own stupidity when they obey the TV and vote for corrupt people who screw them over. They blame "libs" and say that newspapers that question the Rush-n-Bush deific duo are "liberal rags" and it is getting nothing but worse. These people are terrifying in that they believe whatever Rush tells them to and own lots of guns and don't have much human empathy or ability to reason. I've lost a lot of friends in the past few years to that attitude and it spreads to the weak and the powerless and the angry, which I once numbered myself as. Their number just keeps growing because it is easier to hate when pointed in a direction than actually solve problems by thought and consideration, which is why they lost me.
I believe most of the ones I encounter have been subject to child abuse growing up (which is more common in these Red States than in Blue States). Their biggest paranoia is of unpredictable, authoritarian figures who tell them how to run their lives (reliving child abuse memories), this is typified in their minds by the UN's opposition to the US rather than by Bush's lies. They have a sort of mental block here, which most of us seem to either have gotten over or to have never had to deal with; they REFUSE to believe that someone higher up and "on their side" could possibly mean them ill or lie to them, and if they do its "for their own good" like any good beating. This is how these "cookie-cutter Messiahs" like Shrub and Hitler and Jim Jones gather their hordes of underlings.
Alice Miller's "Drama Of The Gifted Child" speculates that this sort of thing led to Hitler's rise and looking at the evidence, I think that America's current situation is very close to what happened in Germany in the early '30's, right before they started hunting down "liberals" and "intellectuals" and other "undesirables" like blacks, gypsies, gay people, and Jews.
Of course, quite a few of them left the country and helped us to win that war.... Thankfully, conservatives don't tend to be into "science" and all that smart stuff.
America is heading for a fall, and in a big way. I doubt there will be a civil war: one or two protests will be brought down in a hail of gunfire and blamed on the protestors turning violent; I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but I don't doubt that it will.
Thank G-d Bush & Co have stuck their nose in the Schiavo case and some of these morons have gotten off their knees, put the pants back on the radio, and wiped their mouths; the merest glimmer of the notion that they've been licking the naughty bits of the GOP's commercial advertising spokes-"people" is starting to hit them. Maybe it'll slow our slide into hell down a bit. After all, German militarism was "appeased" only enough to give everyone else a chance to arm up and get ready to kick their ass, and look at China ramping up its industry. History repeats itself.
Most of the people I know and deal with are either Democrats, moderate Republicans, or indifferent. (Then again, I've lived in New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.) The Pinellas Park interlopers are a fringe group. I seriously doubt we'll ever see a hot war in this country.
I doubt if any of my former friends would ever come for me; I just faded out as quietly as possible. I've noticed that a lot of these people are cowards both physically and intellectually, hence the obsession with owning guns and "homeland security." It's how you get them fired up about terrorism and the bogeyman; they're scared little people already, and just like a terrified dog they are more likely to bite.
Its the ones who aren't that aren't obvious bigmouths that I'm worried about, the ones whose fears they are playing on. For every hate-spewing pundit there are several like the nutcase who contracted to kill Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer.
I asked a few of my friends to tone down in October because I can't stand any kind of inappropriately violent speech or anything, but it wouldn't stop. Some of these were college educated people and I thought a few of them could possibly at least explain their positions but it was all just blind anger and non-stop ditto-heading; it got to the point where they were talking about conspiracies among the "Democratic elite" with that whole George Souros fiasco during the vice-presidential debates with "Factcheck.Com". I had to get out, it was too disturbing.
is something i have thought of for a long time. i see these assholes, and i think, another abuse survivor. another emotional cripple. when are we going to stop this kind of shit? i saw a good bumpersticker the other day- a happy childhood lasts a lifetime. stop child abuse.
the corollary is that i have always thought the 60's was the result of a generation of babies that were well fed, well loved and not beaten. they would not fight. end child abuse and hunger, end war? always seemed obvious to me.
49. Yes. The Bush strategy - create tribalism in the USA. Yes..this is why
propaganda is illegal and why they had to have a long war in order to get away with using propaganda. The War works for Rove in many ways. Hussein is a monster & Iraq weak.. so it was an easy thing to do. ***holes.
57. Hate Radio is VERY dangerous and appealing to the GOP
Will people like Hal Turner, Rush, Hannity, and the likes, cause violence against liberals? ------ These people are causing a rise in the level of hatred towards Liberals in this country. And they have a LOT of help from Ann Coulter, Faux News, Conservative churches, and right wing newspapers. Lucky thing for Liberals is that most republicans are too lazy and cowardly to ever really take any action. But, there is always a few right wing wackos out there - heck, we have one as our President right now!
Or, the little ding in your car that you never saw before was from some Freeper that was angry at your anti-Bush bumper sticker? ======== I think republicans are chickenshit cowards, and I plan to get an anti-Bush sticker for my vehicle. These Bush-Nazis cannot be allowed to intimidate us.
Get an anti-Republican sticker... If we focus our hatred on Bush so much the next 3 years, the next Republican candidate will get votes just because he's not Bush. ------ I'll get an anti-republican sticker. I enjoy pissing off the right wingers as mush as possible.
Half of people did not vote. Half of those who did vote voted for Kerry. That leaves us with 25% of the population who voted for Bush (approx. I think the real figure was 28%)
Of those, let's assume half are really into "hate radio" and would act on any incitement to violence. That leaves us with between 12.5 and 14 percent of the population. Lots of Bush voters would probably say either "I held my nose voting for him, no way I'm going to kill or risk being killed for him" or "I love Bush, but I'm not going to kill other Americans, especially women and children".
The other day when someone posted a link to a TS thread over at Free Republic, someone there had posted that they hoped God would destroy America. Someone else quickly told that hoser to "go stand over there with Osama". Most people aren't under the hate radio spell. Even a majority of those who are wouldn't kill someone. If you want to be worried about splinter groups or crazed loners, that's one thing. There are plenty of those all over the place. But fretting over half of the country deciding to massacre the other half sounds like misplaced energy to me.
You make a lot of sense and I'm getting on in years. I don't need to be misplacing any energy, that's for sure. I am working on the other things I can do to eliminate this bug in the White House. These are just thoughts I have when the weather is gray and cold.
a few days ago when I watched a new HBO movie about the Rwandan civil war with my daughter ("Every Year in April" or something like that). I didn't know about the significant role the "hate radio" broadcasts played in that horrific period of violence in that country. I didn't know that some of those who were the on-air "voices" at that time have been tried for war crimes until I saw the movie.
It struck a strong chord for me, given the surge in hate radio in this country in recent years. I think it has a terrible and very real impact on the perspective and (God help us) even the actions of far too many "average" Americans today.
63. shari, I saw that movie last night and that is what made me ask
this question. I remember thinking how dangerous the radio was there in Rwanda when I saw the movie "Hotel Rwanda". Both of these movies had a strong impact on me. If people hear things many times, no matter whether those things are true or not, they will start to believe some or all of it. Kind of a brainwashing thing, I imagine.
to me, I'm glad to know someone else saw it, too - though really distressed that it exists at all.
Hate radio has a huge reach into the American psyche these days. And exposure over a long period of time...who knows? Most scary is the stuff that you and I call "hate radio" is becoming accepted as mainstream by far too many these days.
81. I can plead mostly ignorance, but the first I had heard about it
was in the movie "Hotel Rwanda". Then I saw the HBO movie "Sometimes in April". Both are movies about the genocide where the Hutus killed about 1 million Tooties, both tribes in Rwanda. In the run-up and during the genocide, there was one radio station that was inciting this violence, calling the Tootsies cockroaches and generally de-humanizing them so that neighbor would be OK with killing neighbor.
Both movies are excellent and I highly recommend them. I learned some about the genocide that we did nothing about, probably cause there was no oil in Rwanda.
I get all weird when I feel emotions - stop that :D
You know who got me fired up? That Malloy character was going off as usual tonight - really fires me up - and he's a friggin' riot too. HE made "Jesus on Trailer Hitch" famous also and mentioned seeing the thread here on DU. Man, that was an instant classic!!
94. So what should we do - limit speech on radio (ala fcc)?
What is hate anyway? I have a problem with all this really.
When the right bitches about crap on tv and wanting to censor it, we say turn the channel. Why does not the same apply here? Is our faith in mankind such that we think others are weak and we are strong and that if 'they' listen to it 'they' will become violent (whereas we will not if we listen to things because we are better?).
I dunno, the whole thing seems a little odd on some levels.
Yeah, let's drag them freepers out onto the street and burn them at the stake!!
There do seem to be a lot of idiot red-neck that believe the lies they tell and are likely to act on false information - at least from what I've seen when I hang at the local red-neck bar (don't ask why I go there :D )
said, "The tree of liberty must at various times be refreshed with the blood of tyrant and patriot alike." Forgive the paraphrase, but he was essentially advocating overthrow of the government on a regular basis. He knew of the tendency of a centralized government to become tyrannical over time.
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