What makes a person want to CRAM Religion down your throat?

[mopaul]

..as if it were a feeding tube? why do the hypereligious feel the need to ENFORCE and INFLICT their religion on everyone else like a pimpmobile with super speakers?

why oh why can't they just keep their beliefs TO THEMSELVES for Christ's sake? i'm talking about ALL pushy religions, the world over.

why do the hypereligious zealots always end up SHOVING IT DOWN YOUR THROAT? why are they on a constant crusade to CHANGE EVERYONE to their religion, even unto mass murder? if i want to go to church i know of one right down the street for Christin' out loud.

.............WHY?..................

[whistle]

1. Their own guilt I suppose......

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. don't know why

some people feel that everyone has to be just like them....almost sounds like they are really insecure, imho.

btw, not all faiths believe in doing this....

[mopaul]

5. no Buddhist has ever tried to cram it down my throat

now that i think of it, neither has any satanist.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. yep....

I've never had a pagan do it, either, nor a practitioner of Native American spirituality. And neither do Sufis.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. They think

that the world is falling apart and the need to "save" everybody in their beliefs and everybody who is different from them is going to Hell and they should "save" them. Who cares about tolerance.

[leftofthedial]

3. they are mentally ill

and don't know how to behave like humans.

[FlemingsGhost]

10. I agree.

These folks need help.

[havocmom]

20. Agree with ya on that one. There is a difference between faith & delusion

Those with faith don't seem to worry about other ways and other opinions nearly as passionately as those with delusions do.

Delusional people get pretty worked up if you don't go along with their particular version of reality 100%. I firmly believe THAT is the reason they work so hard to shove things down other's throat and attempt to control everybody. They don't really have faith and they don't want any challenges to their delusions.

[leftofthedial]

25. delusional people become violent when their delusions are challenged

'tis true

[FlemingsGhost]

27. Not all together true, I'm afraid.

Cognitive dissonance can indefinitely extend one's delusion, sans violence.

[havocmom]

33. Not all get violent but they get plenty worked up

and will resort to a vast array of manipulative tricks to try and get their way. Many just rely on the good manners of others so they can behave poorly without facing repercussions.

Many will resort to guilt trip scams. Many will just shout to drown out reasonable discussion. Many will simply deny any logical argument which refutes their premise. Many are just fucking dense and hostile.

Some shoot people.

There is a women in my area who loves to go back to the bible belt and visit her 'real Christian friends'. She was telling me about how, on two separate occasions, they took 'revenuers' out and "put 'em in the quicksand" then went on, smiling, with eyes heavenward, about how happy she is when she can be among them because they are so much like Jesus. I kid you not. She cannot see a problem there. But she assures me that Jesus loves me and so she does to. I am grateful I am younger and faster than she is. She gives me the willies!

[Bluebear]

4. "The great commission"

"Go ye therefore and teach ALL nations".....

With that one line from their holy book their mission is set. The majority take evangelizing as an opportunity to share their perception of salvation in love and friendship. Unfortunately their religion has been hijacked by radical right extremists.

[stopbush]

22. Bingo! You've hit the nail on the head.

Xtians are charged with converting people to their religion. Is there another religion on the planet with such a charge? I can't think of one.

[Yupster]

36. In the last couple of hundred years,

the Moslem religion has spread through conversion, much of it forced. The book "Among the Converted" by Nobel author Naipal is probably a good place to start for info.

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Please don't lump us all together

Some people who are Christians don't believe in forcing their views and beliefs onto people. If someone has question's about what I believe then I will tell them and if they want to know more I'll talk to them. It's not fair to lump us all together. Also a lot of really rightwing evangelicals don't believe they should follow a law unless it's okay with God. So that whole freedom of religion thing? Forget about it bud.

[Yupster]

35. I think the more important line

is that the only way to get to my father is through me.

Since only Christians can go to heaven, religious people are working to save the souls of their neighbors, whether they want to be saved or not.

[thinkingwoman]

6. insecurity.

They are so insecure about their beliefs that they need the validation of everyone else on the entire friggin planet.

[Mnemosyne]

31. AMEN sister!!! n/t

[kodi]

40. yes, the need for others around them to reinforce their beliefs is there

being in a minority causes them a strain on their beliefs because they have to deal with the realization that others have not accepted the dogma and it forces them to question why so.

when that happens they tend to question themselves and their ideas a lot more.

[vixengrl]

7. If they don't cure you of your diseased unbelief in their religion

they might catch it and go to Hell where they will burn for all time. It's the only way to save themselves.

[Technowitch]

8. Because active evangelism is an integral part of their religion

There are a number of basic rules for their religion:

- We're right and everybody else is wrong
- When we die, we're going to receive eternal bliss; everybody else is going to eternal torment
- Hatred in the name of our beliefs is perfectly fine
- We can pick and choose which Biblican injunctions we'll follow and which we'll ignore (e.g. homosexuality = evil ; owning slaves = not permitted anymore, despite previous justifications ; eating shellfish and pork = okie dokie! -- unless one happens to be allergic)
- It's our duty to use any means necessary to make others believe as we do...and if they don't, they'd best keep quiet about it and at least pretend to do so

-Technowitch

[FreedomAngel82]

48. The thing with the food

has been changed though. Christians in the Bible times used to believe not eating certain foods. Someone had a dream (I can't remember who right now) and in the dream it was a bunch of animals in a net being released for eating. To sum the dream up basically it was a message from God saying you can eat whatever you want and it's your decision.

[TaleWgnDg]

9. Why? Why do extremist "evangelicals" want to . . .

.
Why? Why do extremist "evangelicals" want to . . . cram their brand of religion down our throats, you ask?

Why?

Simple. Very simple. It's selfish-based. Seriously.

In order for these radical rightwing extremist "evangelicals" to save their own ass from the eternal flames of Satan's damnation in Hell, they must ... are obligated to ... bring others into their flock. I kid you not. Proselytizing is mandatory! Conversion is mandatory! "Witnessing" is mandatory!

All, in order to save their own asses from Hell.

Now, do you understand why they intend to change our laws in America? to insert their own religious tenets into our laws in America? be it Schiavo in a right-to-die-with-dignity case, or any abortion rights case including the so-called "conversion" of Ms. Roe in Roe v. Wade to "religious fundamentalism" . . . it's all one in the same.

God-said-it-I-believe-it crowd of ignorant zealots. Nothing you say or do will ever waver them. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Which is why America is a Society of Laws and not of men -- in order to force them into compliance.


________________________________________________________

The Right to Privacy includes both
A Woman's Right to Choose, and
The Right-to-Die-with-Dignity

Keep the Government OFF our bodies and OUT of our bedrooms !
________________________________________________________

[maxudargo]

11. You know what's interesting?

I hang out on a movie discussion forum at rottentomatoes.com. Usually we talk about movies, but there are always "off-topic" threads and sometimes they are religious discussions. This was especially true when Mel Gibson's Passion was playing.

The interesting thing is the similarity between Matrix and Lord of the Rings and Star Wars "fanboys" and the Jesus people. They are very similar in their tone, emotional level, defensiveness, and evangelical impulses. Matrix fanboys are always trying to get some validation that the Matrix movies are the greatest movies ever made and if you don't see that you just don't understand the powerful, brilliant insights into everything you can find in those films. Same for all the various other types of fanboys. They create endless threads arguing the same arguments over and over and they can't accept that some people prefer Fellini or Godard or Bergman movies and rather look down on the over-hyped Hollywood pop crap they worship.

The Jesus fans seem very much the same. I think it comes from wanting to be deeply committed to something, and wanting to believe it is the best way to be, but knowing on some level that you're committing to something that is kind of silly and that the elitist snobs who disdain your views are right, and that they are probably more intelligent and discerning than you.

So you constantly seek validation by trying to force everybody to admit you are right. And you are very defensive and grumpy about the fact a lot of people chuckle at your views, and somewhere inside yourself you know it's because your views are kind of silly. But the more obvious that becomes, the more frustrated and plaintive you get.

I don't know, just some random thoughts there.

[Greybnk48]

12. In my decades of experience

The only group that ever tried to shove their religion in my face were Christians, never Jews, Muslims (and I do have Muslim friends) nor any other group. And the only Christians who have done this are those that I would also label psychotic.

[H2O Man]

13. Money. n/t

[Greybnk48]

15. You're right H2O Man

I would like to add to psychosis--money. Dead on.

[Lexingtonian]

14. missionizing/'witnessing' is a cult tactic

It may not lead to actual new adherents, but it strengthens the resolve and investment of the people who are already "in" and allays their doubts. They focus on what they think efficacious, not on their doubts, so it's doubly useful to their leaders.

Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith but in doubt. It is when we are unsure that we are doubly sure.
-Reinhold Niebuhr
US Protestant theologian (1892 - 1971)

[mondo joe]

16. Poor boundaries! And their own insecurity, of course.

Some people can't bear to be reminded they might not be right.

They've got to force others to get in lock step so they can feel better about their own beliefs.

[libnnc]

17. well, for some it could be despiration

I have a close friend who is facing her mortality right now. A medical doctor, she's saying and doing things I've never seen before from her--carrying a prayer cloth annointed with "blessed" oil, crucifixes, bibles, getting really angry with people who aren't religious...I keep my mouth shut because I know she's scared about dying, but it is devastating watching someone you care about cling to spirituality as a last resort.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. With your friend it seems

as if it's a peace of mind sort of thing. On one board I talk to that's Christian-based a lot of people there think the world is falling with evil sinners etc. and they can't do anything about it in their eyes. Never mind freewill and all that. :eyes: With me I'm a spiritual Christian person because it's what I believe and it helps me be a better person. Why people want to force it on others is just crazy. How they're acting now days it's like the cult and taliban. No better.

[mmonk]

18. Insecurity of the correctness

of their belief in their subconscious?

[Rex]

19. Cult of personality

The RW religious freaks will NOT tolerate diversity. Think of them as narrow minded, zero tolerance type folk. IMO this comes from the denial that others actually exist with different world views then their own. I believe the freaks call it 'moral values'. Their moral values can be seen in the way they treat death; it is perfectly alright to kill people of another race indiscriminately with bombs, it is NOT okay to terminate the life of a fetus. This contradiction wrecks havoc on their small minds. Their tiny moral compasses spin and spin. Deep emotions like compassion and friendship confuse these people while more basic emotions like rage and hate fill them with false faith. It gets worse if you actually have to talk to one.


They don't want to be your friend, they want to CONVERT you. Actually if it were up to the RW freaks they would use the law to FORCE you to convert to their Christian-tali-ban style of thinking. If you didn't convert then they would torture you until you succumb. This is a HUGE cult and should be watched with caution.

[Bouncy Ball]

21. They think it's their duty

plus I think they get off on feeling morally superior to others, whether they are or aren't.

It makes me sick and I AM a Christian. I've been told I'm not a REAL Christian because I won't proselytize to others. Whatever. :eyes:

[Az]

23. A religion that doesn't promote itself doesn't propogate

Whether a belief starts from truth or delusion it will die if it's teachings and concepts are not taught to others. Thus a belief system from the moment of its creation survives by its ability to spread. Truth has nothing to do with its ability to survive.

Over time such systems evolve. They pick up customs and new concepts. They entwine with the cutlure they find themself in. This allows them to become more effective at propogating themself if they pick up valuable methodologies.

There are a variety of methodologies they can adopt. Some remain focused and insular. Remaining within a tribe or closed community. Dependent on the communities survival for its own survival. Some are even more exclusionary relying on word of mouth and the effectiveness of the actual philosophy behind the teaching to foster a new generation of adherants.

Others seek to spread to other communities. These are far more aggressive. Relying on the impact a strong society has on a weaker society it often will create vital communities tied together by dogmatic authoratative moral values tied to the belief system. These belief systems are the most wide spread and often succesful ones. Predatory in nature they seek to spread to communities where they are not deliberately invited to do so. Missionaries are the initial foray in what amounts to cultural warfare. Offers of generousity and betterment for the community come tied to evangelyzing and promotion of the belief system. Strong society dominating weaker societies culture.

This mindset of bringing one's beliefs to others is very readily accepted by our minds. We learn and develop by copying others and communicating ideas with each other. It goes to the very core of how we do learn. We initially start by copying our parents and later our teachers and friends. Once we form our own view of the world based on the information we put together from our past experiences we develop our own take on the world. When we come across someone that seems to have a different take on the world we compare it to our own. If what we have learned suggests that they are on a path that may be harmful to them we naturally seek to put them on the right path as we understand it.

In this way religions can make use of our own natural tendency to help one another. Not all use this but some do. Thus when a believer comes across someone that does not beleive there is a natural instinct to try to help them. And if their belief system suggests that helping a person can be achieved by trying to tell them the "good news" then that is what they will do. Because they are compassionate and believe someone can be in danger because of their beliefs.

[slackmaster]

26. Men with small penii want to do that

:D

[H2O Man]

28. Respect

"It is said that there are two ways of dealing with people. One way is to control people, the other is to respect them. By controlling, you weaken the will of the other person. By respecting, you acknowledge the other's personal will. In one case, you make a person a slave; in the other you make him a partner."

- Muhammad Ali; "The Soul of a Butterfly"; page 176

[undergroundpanther]

29. For control

When these asswipes try to control other people
It's because they feel their hegemony on culture is slipping away and changes they are not in control of scare them.

[Blue-Jay]

30. They call it "witnessing", Mo.

It is an odd practice to say the least. Many Southern Baptists feel as though they're doing "God's work" by annoying their friends & neighbors with science fiction. Kind of like scientology minus the Travolta-goodness.

[davsand]

32. There is Faith and there is evangelizing...

I see a lot of people of faith--people who live their lives according to some kind of belief system and they do just fine in the real world. Then I see people who feel this burning need to impart some kind of prophecy or evangelical message that is incompatible with the rest of the world.

Frankly, this burning need is not located in one particular church or religion, it is rooted in the people who have dropped all brain activity when they picked up that religion. It ain't the Christians or the Muslims or the Jews out there working to convert people--it is the braindead wingnuts of the world.

I have a theory that these same people would be every bit as fanatical about a sports team or a diet or a TV show. The only thing that has locked them in on religion is that leap of faith that is so vital to any spiritual path.

I dunno--I'm a witch and have been for many years. I have never tried to convert anybody, and frankly, don't especially WANT a lot of the braindead folks out there hanging out in my neck of the woods. Far better, IMO, for them to be someplace else...

Laura

Before anybody climbs up by backside, please notice that I am not bashing Christians or the Christian faith.

[laylah]

34. My first thought was

their own insecurities in their beliefs. Insecurities they deny and do their best to avoid. Maybe by trying to "shove" their beliefs down others throats, they will somehow validate their own.

Jenn

[saltpoint]

37. Mopaul, I think you're right about the Buddhists --

-- I've never been approached by any Buddhist whose intent was to convert me or proselytize.

I have had experiences with a few other major world traditions, in particular the one expoused by Jim Dobson and others.

Some of them may sense that they can be made to seem morally superior to others so long as they can cast what the others are doing as "sinful" or "against God" ;

and

Some of them have intuited that they are given (or give themselves) authority to control. The authoritarian impulse is strong in these personalities. Fundamentalists ultimately want control over ALL instutuions -- marriage, education, government itself -- and more personally, they want control over other people's genitals.

More Termite than Christian.

[mopaul]

38. the hive mentality

must obey the queen bee and avoid horrible individualism and freedom.

[Swamp Rat]

56. Yes, now you are getting warmer.

:D

[More Than A Feeling]

39. Do you push your political beliefs?

Presumably everyone has heard of the Democratic Party, but before the election did you tell everyone you knew to vote for Kerry and why they should do so?

I don't proselytize, but I can understand the reason behind it. Perhaps the Democratic Party could learn from the evangelicals, the mormons, and so forth, about grassroots selling.

This is an excellent article about that very subject: http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2034/P40/

[cags]

41. Its simply validation, I believe that deep down they doubt it themselves

and if they can get others to believe than it validates for them that they are right.

Lets face it, who wants to be wrong. Everyone thinks their beliefs are right but deep down everyone doubts them, because their is no physical proof to say see I'm right. Atheists included

The people that aren't cramming it down your throat I think can accept the fact that maybe what they believe isn't the truth, so they don't push. But they still choose to believe it for themselves.

Just my 2 cents

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. It's all a kind of cosmic pyramid or Ponzi scheme.

The more rabid evangelical types seem to think they'll get more Jesus-points if they convert people. Presumably, then, if their converts go on to convert more people and so forth, eventually the whole world will be "saved," and maybe the people at the top of the pyramid are especially saved and will get special perks in heaven. I just don't get it.

I used to feel that whatever your religion (or lack of it) might be, that was just fine as long as you just did your thing and didn't bother me about it. Worship Jesus or Allah or dance naked in the woods worshipping trees -- I didn't care; wasn't any of my business. But I've come to consider religion to be a dangerous force, not a positive one. The religious lunacy that has started to strangle this country has put me off ever wanting to set foot in a church again. It mostly just creeps me out now.

[BR_Parkway]

58. Sure explains why Amway was so successful with this group, and all the

other network marketing type programs that came along. They bought into it because it was so familiar and because it promised them great reward at the end if they only paid a small price today....

[Ladyhawk]

43. They think their imaginary friend is going to send you to hell...

...if you don't believe, too. The irony of a loving god sending someone to eternal torture somehow escapes their notice...sigh.

Have I mentioned I'm through with fundies and any other religious folks who turn out to be nutjobs?

My opinion is that religions are socially-acceptable cults that therefore have more members that smaller, socially-unacceptable cults. I've observed so much insane behavior by the religious that I'm getting to where I emotionally distance myself from anyone who seems like they might not be part of the reality-based community.

I've tried hard to give religious people a fair shake, but they've completely and utterly failed me almost every time. I still hold out hope for the religious left and people who are more open-minded, but even these folks are beginning to scare me a little bit. :( I don't like feeling this way, but it's become a survival tactic: stay away from people who believe in invisible beings. :scared:

I wish I could say I felt differently.

[Arkana]

44. Because they're not satisfied with not thinking for themselves

they want YOU to not think for yourself either.

[VOX]

45. You get bonus points in Heaven if you make some converts in this life.

I kid you not. This shameless gimmick has been employed for centuries.

I googled around a bit and found this:
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=918
2) The Crown of Rejoicing. “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming? For ye are our glory and joy” (1 Thessalonians 2:19, 20). This is the soul-winner’s crown. The first thing that a Christian should pray for and seek to cultivate is the desire, ability, and wisdom to win lost souls to Jesus Christ. Paul was confident that when he would stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ the Thessalonian converts would guarantee a crown for all those who shared in bringing them to Christ. Every time an individual is converted, there is joy in Heaven; but at the day of the giving of rewards the soul-winner will be exceeding joyful when those are presented to God whom he had won to Christ. What is our hope of reward as Christ’s witnesses? The answer is in those who will be in Heaven because of our prayers, gifts, preaching, and personal work.

[kenny blankenship]

49. Religion is what makes a person cram religion down your throat.

Proselytizing, winning converts and confronting infidels, asserting the superiority of one's faith, etc. is an inextricable component of nearly every religion I know of. (Gaining converts is merely one aspect of "cramming religion down others' throats, in case someone wants to rebuff me with "Well my religion doesn't want any converts). Not all sects of every religion is equally characterized this way but it's nearly a constant across different religions.

If there is a denomination of some religion that doesn't assert the superiority of its faith and cram its values upon others who just don't want it, insisting on a privileged speaking position (eg, you must listen to what we have to say, you must acknowledge we are bringing something beneficial and special to the public discourse , we are bringing "values", while you as a secular, private citizen speak only for your own narrow interests and don't have any values, unless you get them from us.)then it's probably only a temporary position for them. Look back in history and you'll see they used to cram their rules on other unwilling people not long ago, and will probably try to do so once again pretty soon.

Religion seeks to be the organizing principle of society and it's always a hierarchical organizing principle: accordingly "Mind your own business," or "We shall mind our own business" never appears as a commandment in any of them.

[Cleita]

51. Interesting question.

I pondered why I was baptized and why did I have to do First Communion? It was because they told me to. All the adults said I had to do so because that's what Jesus and his mother wanted and of course the other guy, God. It was the reason for everything else too, like catechism, the Sacraments, Mass and so on.

I never did Confirmation though. By the time I was thirteen they just couldn't make me. The premise of Confirmation is that you agree to all the stuff that came before it like Baptism and First Communion when you weren't old enough to agree to it yourself, so they make you do Confirmation to tell your parents that they did the right thing. I couldn't agree, so they gave me time and then more time and finally I graduated High School and was able to fly away dodging Confirmation all the way.

The nuns always told me I was headed for Hell and not because I was the class trollop but because they knew I didn't believe although I never made a big deal about it unless they were pushing me into doing something I didn't want to do like Confirmation.

So should there be an unwritten law about teaching your kids about stuff you aren't sure of yourself? Now I know parents do the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus thing with their kids until they feel they are old enough to know they are just fairy tales. Why can't they do the same with religion?

I think the problem with people who believe that Jesus is really going to rapture them is that the belief hasn't matured into something adult like the Jewish people have, something to base their principles on and a history and culture but not fairy beliefs, although I do believe in fairies, my own version of course. :-)

[jmcon007]

52. at least for Christians.....

..it's because they know Jesus LED by the compassion, love and care he had for others. The evangelicals obviously have no hope of using Jesus's strategy of leading, since they have no compassion, love or care for anyone but themselves and those in their own tax bracket. Therefore, they have to cram.

[Quixote1818]

53. It can be many things but I think it's mostly arrogance

They think they are on the inside looking out and we are on the outside looking in. It probably makes them feel good about themselves to think they know God better than you do. It's like the guy who knows someone famous and has to tell everyone they know Tom Cruse and that makes them cool.

[Jamastiene]

54. I don't know, but

I have finally figured out what to say to fundies when they start with their baloney. I tell them if "anything is possible, yadda yadda yadda" then get my one prayer that I used to bother to pray answered. Until then, don't waste my time. I don't care what someone's religion is, just don't try to push that one size fits all generic belief system that trivializes real human problems, down my throat. I used to give in to them, but NEVER, and I mean NEVER saw results. I've officially proven them wrong now. They can admit defeat. I know how to say that and get that self satisfied smug little smirk on my face that just makes them furious too. Pity. They need to put their money where their mouth is and show my some results or quit lying to me. I'd tired of the false promises.

[Piperay]

55. They think that if they convert you it

will assure THEM a special place in heaven, seriously.

[jmowreader]

57. For Allah's sake, MoPaul, you know the answer to that one!

Hardcore, radical fundamentalist Christianity is for people who don't want to live but don't have the balls to put a .45 to their heads and pull the triggers. It's as simple as that. They want someone to kill them. And that someone is going to be Jesus.

But Jesus won't come back to whack them unless Everyone In The World Is A Christian Just Like Me.

If they can somehow convert everyone to their religion, Jesus and his Holy M-60 Machine Gun will show up in Times Square and start mowing down the faithful. (And maybe Jesus can get his M-60 to work better than the one I had.)