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POLL: Taiwan? Who's for it?

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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:02 PM
Original message
Poll question: POLL: Taiwan? Who's for it?
One China policy has been US and China policy for 55 years but since the Communist Party-controlled National People's Congress in Beijing approved a law on March 14 calling for the use of "nonpeaceful means" to halt any Taiwanese attempt to declare independence from the mainland, Taiwan's future is in doubt.


So IF China attacks Taiwan.....

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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JAbuchan08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. What would our foreign policy directors ask themselves?
Why the hell not!

Therefore my answer is: The US is at war with China
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Voted
:kick:
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_TJ_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why not - Lets start World War III
I'm sick of this pissant little planet anyhow :silly:
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. We were willing to sell the Nationalists on Formosa out 50+ yrs ago
In exchange for friendly relations with China. The idea was to appease the CCP by letting them take the last Kuomintang stronghold, thereby demonstrating to the Chinese that we were willing to recognize the People's Republic. That was, of course, nixed when Mao and Stalin entered into the Friendship Pact and the US entered into the Korean War. I don't know if Washington would be willing to sacrifice Taiwan for good relations with the People's Republic again, but I would not doubt it, even in the face of anti-Communist opposition from the public.

Nevertheless, I support Taiwan's independence.
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megaplayboy Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. We wouldn't be the ones starting WW3...the PRC would be...
Taiwan is a democracy and a de facto sovereign state, has been for decades. We've committed ourselves to their defense, albeit with some "strategic ambiguity" to avoid escalating things overmuch.

The last military assessment I saw stated that China flat out couldn't pull off a successful invasion at this point in time, but perhaps in 5-25 years they might be able to. Obviously they can outspend Taiwan over that time if they really wish to do this.

We didn't abandon West Berlin during the Cold War because it was inconvenient, and there's nothing wrong with sticking our necks out for our democratic friends and allies in the world.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "our necks"? Who would that be?
Yours? So, that the Taiwanese politicians can bluster and threaten for their own ends by provoking China?
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megaplayboy Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. They're a sovereign nation, not a "rogue province"
They elect their own leaders democratically, and the ambiguous state of being they are in was imposed on them by us to begin with.
Yes, I would be willing to fight to defend a fellow democratic state from invasion by a totalitarian one.
"Provoking"? How many missiles does Taiwan have pointed at the mainland? How many invasion staging exercises does it perform?
What sort of "provocation" by Taiwan would justify an invasion by China, in your view?

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Taiwan is a "de facto" state threatening to secede.
As you said in your first post. You would be willing to "fight". Would you be willing to kill?

The Confederacy held "democratic" elections and decided to secede. Seems like, as I recall, some unintended results came to be as a result of their provocation.

Taiwan is flexing it's "democratic" muscles and threatening to secede from China, only because the US is dumb enough to promise to go to it's aid if China reacts. Taiwan, in effect, has a lot of missiles pointed at China. US missles.
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megaplayboy Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Nice try, but it's apples and oranges there.
Taiwan has not been part of China for nearly a century. "democratic" doesn't need quotation marks when referring to Taiwan. It was considered a sovereign nation and recognized as such for about 3 decades following WW2, and at this point it has been a democracy for about 15 years.
the PRC has zero control over the internal affairs of Taiwan, and that's as it should be.
The Confederacy attacked Fort Sumter to initiate the Civil War. Hardly comparable.

The reasons why Taiwan hasn't declared independence formally are manifold. One reason is that there isn't unanimity among Taiwanese citizens about whether to reunify, formally separate or maintain the status quo. Native-born Taiwanese have no wish to be part of China. Another is that they don't wish to provoke a war, blockade or economic embargo by China.
Reunification is unappealing at present, because China is still non-democratic, and because Hong Kong is a good model for what will happen to Taiwan if they do that(i.e., the PRC is untrustworthy).
The status quo is inherently unstable, because as time goes on China becomes more capable of successfully invading Taiwan. So the prudent thing is to maintain the status quo, but take steps to prepare for formal independence, before China is capable of stopping them.
Actually, they've been extremely patient, but they know that if they ever want to be independent, the window of opportunity to do so is closing over the next 20-25 years. Should they just meekly sign a reunification agreement that China will violate as soon as they can, or walk along under a status quo that will be untenable as soon as US power in the region fades and China is strong enough to beat them?


Yes, I have friends in Taiwan I would kill to protect from losing their freedom under foreign occupation. I don't see a difference between our promise to them and our promise to West Berlin during the Cold War.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Taiwan has been poking China for some time.
Bush and his pals had better get the Taiwanese to cut the rhetoric or institute the draft and raise taxes. China ain't Iraq.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I wonder if Taiwan will be hard to conquer or if they will even fight hard
I honestly don't know. As an island, one would think the invasion would be costly to China.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. The U.S. will do nothing
except complain that the U.N. isn't doing enough even though we acted without them previously.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Clinton would have fought for Taiwan's independence if necessary.
But Bush won't. We and China have a interdependent economic relationship now, and China has been pretty understanding about this whole Iraq thing...I have a feeling we may return the favor when they decide to re-integrate Taiwan.

Sucks, but that's my prediction. No one wants a war with China. China doesn't want a war with us.

So you know if they go into Taiwan, it's because we said we don't care enough to start World War III over it.

So much for military deterrence.
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megaplayboy Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. If China starts stocking up on landing ships, Taiwan will nuclearize
This topic was brought up on dKos, too. It'd take a few years for the PRC to prepare an invasion fleet, and in the interim time Taiwan could fairly easily develop a nuclear deterrent. Obviously there's a slight risk that the mainland might overreact and initiate an exchange, but that's counterbalanced by the mainland realizing that if they start to really match their rhetoric with action, a nuclear-armed Taiwan is inevitable, and then reunification will NEVER happen as long as China is non-democratic.

That doesn't remove our stated committment to support the defense of Taiwan.
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Jack_DeLeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sadly China owns us economically...
I would hope that the US would step up to defend a democratic nation from an agressive non democratic one.

However thanks to the fact that we buy so much fucking shit from China who knows.
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Fair is Fair.
The U.S. is hypocritical to let Taiwan secede from China, but to not let U.S. states secede.

However, I would prefer that both Tawan and U.S. states be allowed to secede when they want.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Is there OIL in Taiwan?...
Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 11:35 PM by PassingFair
No, oh, never mind....
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