Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What if Terri Schiavo was "Terri Shabbaz"?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
bossfish Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:45 AM
Original message
What if Terri Schiavo was "Terri Shabbaz"?
Would this whole situation being playing differently?

Say that many of the facts of the matter are the same, except that the Schindler/Schiavos are black muslims rather than white christians.

1) Terri has her misfortune 15 years ago and is in her present state.

2) The family (or husband) has recieved some malpracrice judgements.

3) The husband has gone to court to have Terri's artificial means to life ended.

4) The husband has found another woman and has fathered some children while still technically married to Terri.

5) The parents make the challenge they're currently making, etc.

Does this play out the same way? Does Jeb Bush propose "Terri's law" in ther first place? Does the US Congress and president intervene? Does the fundie freakshow take place at the hospice (where there are OTHER sick people and their families trying to visit and comfort)?

I think not. Any other opinions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. If She And Her Husband Were Muslims This Conversation Would Be Moot
because Islamic doctrine opposes the removal of the feeding tube in this situation...


I read this in yesterday's Orlando Sentinel in a discussion of how different religions treat this issue...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. So, her choices and the law don't count in that case?
:eyes: Why is it that we repeatedly lose sight of the rights of the individual and the due process for determining their intent?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. No.. It Would Be Moot
because if she and her husband were practicing Muslims we can logically assume that they accept the tenets of their faith which includes opposing the removal of the feeding tube in this situation .... In other words the chances of either one expressing such sentiments are small....



What part of that don't you understand..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bossfish Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Fair enough, I am ignorant...
...to most religions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You presume
that somebody professing a religious belief subscribes to a single, monolithic interpretation of that faith, which is clearly not the case.

I've known moslems who eat pork. I've known moslems who wear gold. I've known moslems who do a lot of things that aren't traditionally "moslem".

Your point is no more true than saying becuase the Schiavo's are Catholic, they would never consider removing a feeding tube.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. No Rules Are Absolute...
but it is reasonable to assume that a member of a particular faith trys to be loyal to the tenets of that faith...


Is it not?


Ow why would they be a member of that faith in the first place?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. you tell me
how many US Catholics use birth control? How many engage in sex outside of marriage? How many christians get divorced? How many christians work on Sundays?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. More Than I Can Count...
I miss your point...


Most members of a religion try to be faithful to the tenets of their religion... Some wander...Some take a cafeteria approach;embracing the tenets they like, ignoring or rejecting the tenets they don't but if there was no desire to be faifthful to a religion a rational person would reject it and find another or elect to have no religion at all...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. my point is simple
if so many catholics and other christians in the US violate basic tenets of their religion, your assertion that because the hypothetical woman in this case was moslem, there wouldn't be a question about her life-support wishes, was simply wrong.

Saying that "she's moslem, therefore would not want the tube removed" is equivalent to saying "Oh, she's christian - she can't get a divorce."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I Should Have Been More Precise With My Language... (Redux)
I am stating that a practing Muslim would be more likely to show fidelity to the tenets of the Islamic faith than a Hindu, Jew, Christian, or non-believer....


Or I should have said...

It is the will of Mohammed as revealed by Islamic scholars and physicians that the removal of the feeding tube in this situation is prohibited...

I also question the assertion embodied in your statement that most Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, etcetera don't try to be faithful to the tenets of their faith...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. you can question it all you want
but I think you'll find that very very few practicing people of ANY religion, at least here in the US, remain faithful to the tenets of their faith.

The divorce rate alone shoots down your argument. As does this:

http://www.uscatholic.org/soundboard/1998/jun/bc2.html

which states:

"A 1992 Gallup poll showed that 80 percent of U.S. Catholics disagreed with the statement "Using artificial means of birth control is wrong." And a 1996 study conducted by Father Thomas Sweetser for the Parish Evaluation Project found only 9 percent of Catholics who consider birth control to be wrong."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. it depends on HOW practicing.
I have a colleague here at UC Boulder who considers herself a practicing Muslim. However, she does not wear a veil or chador, she does not take Fridays off (because that would inconvenience far more of her students than a few) and instead worships on either Saturday or Sunday; she has been known to indulge in alcohol, though not pork since she's a vegetarian; and she is very heavily pro-choice and pro-women's rights. She is here because she can practice as she feels Allah would have wanted her to practice, rather than in her home country in India.

Please don't make generalizations that a practicing Muslim is more faithful than a practicing <insert religion here>. It's just not true. Religious people come in many different flavors, and each person makes her own peace with her faith and the level of observance she is comfortable with.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Your statements may be contradictory. Please clarify.
You say there are more Catholic using birth control than you can count.

You then go on to say "if there was no desire to be faifthful to a religion a rational person would reject it and find another or elect to have no religion at all".

For clarification: Are you saying Catholics who use birth control, thus being unfaithful to Catholic doctrine, are not rational?

If you are, that's quite a statement.

If not, the Muslim Shabazz family could opt to discontinue life support with no more conflict with their doctrine or irrationality than the countless birth control using catholics.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. My Point Is Simple...
Where religious affiliation is voluntary folks will choose a religion whose tenets they embrace....


And if one of the tenets of Islam is that hydration and nutrition can not be withheld from a patient in a persistent vegetative state then I would assume a Muslim is more likely to be faithful to that tenet than a non-Muslim...


If I wanted to eat ham, drink Johnny Walker Red, and have uncircumcised sons I would not become a Muslim where religious affiliation is voluntary...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. And we have shown that
empirically, your belief does not play out.

If so, christians would have a lower divorce rate than non-christians, and catholics would have a lower use rate of birth control than non-catholics.

Your beliefs notwithstanding, it simply isn't true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Do You Have Similiar Numbers For Moslems?
You seem to be saying that since Catholics violate the tenets of their faith many Muslims do also...

Would you agree that your argument would be more impressive if you could provide us with such numbers...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. No, I don't agree
I have already demolished your argument. I don't think anything further is necessary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. That's Great
You are the judge of the power of your own arguments...

When you went to school did you grade your own essays....


You could have been an Olympic gymnast and after you performed you could have run to the judging table and held up a ten...

You implied that since Catholics violate their faith Moslems do too...


Prove it.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. nope
don't have to. You made some assertions that were easily disproven.

But if it helps... I've known moslems who eat pork. There, proven that not all moslems subscribe to one universal, monolithic set of beliefs and actions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I Made The Mistake Of Letting Folks Make This A
conversation about Catholicism when my example was a Muslim...

And it's a non sequitar to infer that because most Catholics violate the tenets of their faith most Moslems do to...

And your little anecdote about a pork eating Muslim is not instructive...


We are not discussing wheteher apostate Muslims exist but whether enough apostate Muslims exist to make a meaningful correlation between Muslim tenets and Muslim actions...


You offered the proposition that since most Catholics violate their church's teachings on sexuality that most Muslims violate the tenets of their religion too...

I am waiting to see evidence that supports that proposition...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. But you spoke of "folks" - not muslims specifically.
"Where religious affiliation is voluntary folks will choose a religion whose tenets they embrace...."'

And is the middle east not torn in part by conflicting ideas of what Islamic tenets are?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. so you're saying that Muslim humans are somehow a different species?
Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 01:51 PM by thebigidea
that they are inherently more religious than Catholics?

isn't that a little goofy?

"We are not discussing wheteher apostate Muslims exist but whether enough apostate Muslims exist to make a meaningful correlation between Muslim tenets and Muslim actions..."

you're imagining a monolithic "Muslim" group where none exists. like Christianity, its hundreds of splintered pieces in all flavors, full of fakes, frauds, phonies, authentic seekers, good people, bad people, etc. Just like Catholics. Just like Protestants. Just like... humans.

They're all pretty similar, they just have cosmetic details scrambled. Sure, to a believer this is rank heresy and deviltalk - but from where I'm standing, there's precious little difference between the lot of you.

I'm always suspicious of attempts to divide the Muslim world and the
"west" - as if we didn't have the same sickeningly familiar human traits underneath cultural trappings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I Wasn't Trying To Divide The Muslim World From The West...
Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 02:10 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
I just question the assertion that because most Catholics are apostates we can infer that most Muslims are too....

You seem to be implying that I am maligning Muslims by saying they are true to their faith or at least most of them... I would think they would applaud that observation...


The poster was quick to cite a link that Catholics in great numbers deviate from the tenets of their faith and rested his assertion that most Muslims deviate from the tenets of their faith on that factual foundation...


I challenged that assertion... Still do... And requested documentation...


Now there's two people looking for it....


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. well, give amazon a visit and start reading
if your knowledge of Islam consists of "well, there's uh - Shi'a and Sunni..." - then you're going to need to learn a lot more than an internet thread is going to tell you.

"You seem to be implying that I am maligning Muslims by saying they are true to their faith or at least most of them... I would think they would applaud that observation..."

why? it seems slightly racist to me, actually. that somehow these darker skinned people are inherently truer to their professed faith than lighter skinned folks. why? what on earth leads you to that conclusion?

Have you ever walked around one of those fabled "Arab streets?" There's a lot more than praying towards Mecca going on.

how would you begin to know what "most" Muslims think? you're requesting documentation from other people, yet are willing to make sweeping pronouncements with absolutely nothing to go on?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Let's See
"if your knowledge of Islam consists of "well, there's uh - Shi'a and Sunni..." - then you're going to need to learn a lot more than an internet thread is going to tell you."

How many sects of Islam are there and what percentage of them are other than Sunnni ans Shia?

"You seem to be implying that I am maligning Muslims by saying they are true to their faith or at least most of them... I would think they would applaud that observation...why? it seems slightly racist to me, actually. that somehow these darker skinned people are inherently truer to their professed faith than lighter skinned folks. why? what on earth leads you to that conclusion?"

I thought Muslims come in all colors... When Malcom X visited Mecca one of the first things he observed was that the pilgrims came in all colors... I wish I had the quote from his autobiography... It was beautiful...

And I take umbrage at the fact you are accusing me of being slighlty racist... I would take more umbrage if I took the charge seriously..

"Have you ever walked around one of those fabled "Arab streets?" There's a lot more than praying towards Mecca going on"

Got me there... No... I have never been to Spain either...


"how would you begin to know what "most" Muslims think? you're requesting documentation from other people, yet are willing to make sweeping pronouncements with absolutely nothing to go on?"

I just presume a Muslim is one who observes the tenets of the Muslim faith...







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Okay - which tenets?
"I just presume a Muslim is one who observes the tenets of the Muslim faith..."

Since Muslims are not monolithic when it comes to what the tenets ARE much less following them, which do you presume they will follow?

Would Mrs. Shabazz wear a Chadoor? Would she drive?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I Belive Saudia Arabia Is The Only Majority Muslim Country Where Women
Cant't Drive...

As for the chador a Muslim woman would be more likely to wear on than a Catholic...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Again, WHICH Muslim tenets do you believe Mrs Shabazz
would follow?

If you say she would follow Muslim tenets I need to know which.

And what do you make of all the Muslims not following those tenets -- are they sufficient for you to appreciate that Muslims don't necessarily follow tenets of Islam?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. That Was Never In Dispute....
"And what do you make of all the Muslims not following those tenets -- are they sufficient for you to appreciate that Muslims don't necessarily follow tenets of Islam?"


I stand by the simple proposition that a Muslim is more likely to follow the tenets of the Muslim faith...


I never disallowed for apostates or how these tenets are interpeted...


Here's some questions for you?


Tomorrow's Easter... How many people in Saudi Arabia will be sitting down to a nice ham dinner...


For that matter how many Hindus will be having a Big Mac today?

Those questions might seem inane but it illustrates that there is certain shared values among religious cohorts..

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I don't know how many Saudis will be eating ham. How many will?
And please provide evidence to support your claim.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I Offered Those Statements Because They Were So Self Evident
They Didn't Require Verification...


I'll leave it to others to estimate how many people in Saudi Arabia will be sitting down to a traditional Easter ham dinner tomorrow.*


*Besides the nearly six million guest workers many of whom aren't Muslim...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Really? But the fact that there are muslims who don't adhere to
every tenet does require verification?

I'm sorry, but the goalpost on this has moved so much no one knows where it is anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Do you need documentation that Muslims disagree on the tenets
of Islam?

I'd think even without documentaton you would see that some Muslims say the tenets include suicide bombings, some don't, some believe women need to be covered head to toe, others don't.

Surely someone is not following the tenets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Actually, religion is moot. Their choice still prevails.
Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 12:19 PM by TahitiNut
I don't give a flying f*ck whether the patient uses Islam, Catholicism, Chinese Fortune Cookies, or the Magic Eight Ball to guide their choice regarding such artificial life support measures. It doesn't make a damned bit of difference - and we don't have to "assume" a f*cking thing! What part of that don't you understand??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The Seminal Poster's Premise Was Flawed...
He specifically chose a name that most folks would consider that of a Moslem...

That was my point....


You can say fuck ... I'm a big boy.....

Love,

Brian
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. interesting that Muhammad
knew of modern technology all those many years ago
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stop_the_War Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Exactly n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. No... But It's His Will As Believed And Revealed By His Followers
"Under such conditions, however, the basic human rights of hydration, nutrition, nursing and pain relief cannot be withheld. These may be carried out at home or in an institution as the case warrants. Palliative care units or institutions would answer such need, but we are not certain whether this justifies the branching off of a full-blown medical specialty for palliative care



http://islam-usa.com/e2.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. And Muslims never deviate from doctrine, just like Catholics don't.
That's why there are no Catholics who use birth control.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I Should Have Been More Precise With My Language...
But I think we can safely assume most Muslims have some degree of fidelity to their faith....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. which faith? which version? which sect? which name brand?
how much fidelity?

no, it isn't safe to assume such things when you're talking about millions upon millions of people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. I Have Already Answered The Fidelity Question...
and I think Islam is broken into two sects :Shia and Sunni...

I don't think there is a difference when it comes to this issue...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Didn't you just recently say you feel if the Schindlers knew Terri
wanted life support removed that they would find a way to do it and reconcile it with their faith?

If I'm wrong about you having said that, I sincerely apologize.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I Don't Remember Saying That...
What I might have said is that the Schindler's in their desperation would have used any rationalization to keep their daughter alive....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Then I again sincerely apologize.
It's all too easy to confuse who said what on DU. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Oh, by the way, would you say Catholics who use birth control or
divorce or have abortions or practice homosexuality have "some degree of fidelity to their faith" despite their violation of church doctrine?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. That's Really Beyond My Ken....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. I'm afraid I don't understand - if you posit that Muslims would
maintain Islamic law to "some degree of fidelity to their faith", why is it beyond your ken to say what Catholics would do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. If she didn't have pretty glamor pics from 20 years go
we'd probably hear 50% less about her as well....

Just like Lacey Peterson. The Media didn't pay attention to her because there was a crime. How many women were murdered in the last 3 years that we never heard about? No clue...but I sure have seen those shots of poor poor poor *attractive* Lacy.

And we've got the convenient addition of this being in Florida...wonder if there would have been a peep if this had been in Oregon or Vermont...probably not because the political mileage would have been nil.

I'll readily admit there is confusion and tragedy aplenty in both of these cases...but guess what...THEY ARE NOT UNIQUE excepting that they are possibly a bit more photogenic.

We don't have news. We don't really have politics any more either. We have Distraction and Entertainment.

500 channels of 24/7 E! exclusives.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nobody even knows it's happening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vpigrad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. The doctors would have killed her off already!
This wouldn't even been an issue since the doctors wouldn't have gone to any extra measures to save her.

I worked in an emergency room for a while, and I was amazed at the racial bias of the doctors. Even the black and Indian doctors just didn't care for poor or black patients as well as they should. I was convinced race played the biggest issue, but several coworkers thought the ability to pay had more to do with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vpigrad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. The doctors would have killed her off already!
This wouldn't even been an issue since the doctors wouldn't have gone to any extra measures to save her.

I worked in an emergency room for a while, and I was amazed at the racial bias of the doctors. Even the black and Indian doctors just didn't care for poor or black patients as well as they should. I was convinced race played the biggest issue, but several coworkers thought the ability to pay had more to do with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Terri wasn't a rich woman when she collapsed.
Her husband couldn't hold down a job, and she worked as a clerk in an insurance company.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. If this were Terri Shabazz
we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
49. IMO, it never would have made the newspapers, similar to
the way shootings and rapes are treated in white versus black neighborhoods. White areas tend to make the papers and black areas don't
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StephanieMarie Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
53. What if her skin was brown instead of white?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Oct 22nd 2017, 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC