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AnnInLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 09:53 AM
Original message
Andrew Sullivan gives DU a mention (not favorable, of course)
Why are we portrayed as such non-inclusive lefty nuts? In any case, I am proud to be a lefty nut with yall! I was following a link in TalkingPointsMemo.com and found ol' Andy's mention of DU inside an interesting discussion of why this radical RW Fundie circus (Shiavo) is going to hurt the GOP. If you can stand going to his site, it is worth reading.

http://www.andrewsullivan.com
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. earning its badge
Boy, DU is really earning its badge of honor these days.

Go DU!

Sue
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. who's andrew sullivan and why should I care?
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. some gay rightwing asshole who does a blog.
Edited on Sat Mar-26-05 10:38 AM by jonnyblitz
nobody important. :puke:
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I thought he was going away for a while
Short hiatus, huh? :shrug:
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FourStarDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I guess he's back now that Gannon is out of the news..
Being an openly gay conservative Republican blogger, Sullivan was too uncomfortable to post for the last several weeks, and took a "break".
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. And a gay right-winger is mainstream?
Bugger off!
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. He was vile against the Clintons.
He's a smart a.., know-it-all, stretch the logic-loud mouth.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. There's some very interesting points
made on that homepage, if you read the second half of the patragraph headed "Schiavo emails" there's some very pertinent points.

Here's a quote from it that the Wesley Clark fans might like: "Take national security away, and I'm much closer to moderate Democrats than 90 percent of the big spending, moralizing Republicans".
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Andy's full of shit
He'd gnaw off his own arm before pulling the lever for a Democratic president of any stripe, moderate or otherwise. His only real bone of contention with Repubs is over gay issues. That's the only thing that causes him to occasionally reassess his fealty to their causes.

And as for General Clark, Sullivan thinks he's a looney cut from the Ross Perot mold.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Non-inclusive?" Andy Excludes Most of His Brethren
And where's the damned quote in the link? I scrolled through the AS cesspool and didn't see anything.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. No quote
Only a passing reference in a wingnut's self-congratulatory email.
Why not consider the current debate within conservatism on the Shavio case as an indication of vitality rather than imminent demise? Conservatism has been "cracking up" for years now, along the libertarian/conservative divide, along the paleo/neo divide, along the religious/secular divide. Look at The Corner: reasoned arguments on either side of a topic that I think we can all admit is at least morally difficult. Do you see the same thing going on at DU? Or at The Nation?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's Not Even Factually Correct...
There is a spirited debate going on at DU about Terri Schiavo....


In fact I can cite over a dozen other long time posters who vigorously oppose the manner in which Ms Schiavo is being allowed to die...


We didn't even to get the merits whether Andrew Sullivan is an asshole or not... That debate is below us...
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Not to mention idiotic
The Corner is NR's in-house blog. The postings are by a cadre of NR writers, so of course their arguments over Schiavo are going to be mostly collegial (nor does it hurt that, as far as I can tell, Derbyshire is the lone dissenting opinion). Likening that to an open-door forum like DU is comparing apples and alligators.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I Don't Thing This Debate Breaks Along Neat Ideological Lines
I saw Derbyshire on CSpan.... He seemed quite the realist....
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Having a non-moonbat moment, was he?
It's jarring to see rare lucidity from him, between columns insinuating that Chelsea Clinton should be killed before she becomes a political threat.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. I didn't even bother to wade thru that shit. nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. It Was An Obscure Reference...
You didn't miss much...
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. he has referenced us before.
:eyes:
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
15. One of the best criticisms I've ever read of Sullivan is in this book:
The Twilight of Equality : Neoliberalism, Cultural Politics, and the Attack on Democracy
by Lisa Duggan

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/080707944...
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. thanks for that link! i never heard of this book. nt
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. This book is brilliant. Every liberal should read it.
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
21. Could You Post What He Says
so we don't have to link on to his BS site. Please
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. Oh the other hand - Andrew Sullivan
He also wrote this:

"THE HYSTERIA MOUNTS: I'm beginning to wonder if the Republican party will soon oppose the whole concept of an independent judiciary. Just read William Bennett's screed in National Review. It contains the sentence: "It is a mistake to believe that the courts have the ultimate say as to what a constitution means." Bennett and his co-author argue that Jeb Bush should send in state troops to reinsert the feeding tube and break the law if necessary. Screw the science. Screw the court system. Screw the law. I disagree with Jonah that this is a minor spat with no long-term consequences. We are looking directly at the real face of contemporary Republicanism. Sane, moderate, thoughtful people are watching this circus and will not soon forget it."


And this:

"THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT VERSUS MARRIAGE: Dahlia Lithwick highlights yet another conservative inconsistency in the Schiavo case. What this case comes down to is the right of a spouse to determine his or her incapacitated spouse's fate in the absence of a living will. Civil marriage is indeed a unique and special legal bond. The social right believes this. But they only believe it when it suits them. If it can be used to marginalize and stigmatize gay couples, they are insistent. If it is an obstacle to their absolutist views on feeding tubes for human beings who have ceased to be able to feel, think or emote, then they discard it. Here's a Tom DeLay quote that says it all:

"I don't know what transpired between Terri and her husband. All I know is Terri is alive. ... Unless she has specifically written instructions in her hand, with her signature, I don't care what her husband says."

So much for the "sanctity of marriage." With each passing month, the cynicism and power-lust of these people become clearer and clearer. Here's a principle: the government should stay out of living rooms, bedrooms and marital bonds. That used to be called conservatism."
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archiv...



I'm not a great Andrew Sullivan fan but there are times when I do have to give him credit for a willingness to criticize his party on some matters. He's waking up to the realities of the rottenness within the Republican Party, and, frankly, I gotta give him credit for that. Most partisans are completely defensive about the "goodness" and "rightness" of their party that they're unwilling to even look at the weaknesses (not DU'ers of course, we are experts at looking at the weaknesses within our party).






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kweerwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. I used to respect Andrew Sullivan
At least his ideas seemed well thought out even if I didn't often agree with his conclusions. I enjoyed his book "Virtually Normal" that examined gay rights from various political viewpoints.

But when I see his byline or see him on Chris Matthews' show, I simply cannot take him seriously anymore since he was "outed" as having a personal ad on a "barebacking" website. (For those who don't know, Sullivan is HIV+ and "backbacking" refers to gay men engaging in high-risk, unsafe sex practices.) That whole episode blew any credibility he might have in my book.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-26-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. Because lying is the name of their game.
We know we are true patriotic Americans, not lefty nuts. We think the Constitution should be followed, not them.
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