When were you just lucky that you weren't raped or had an unwanted

[cally]

pregnancy? (Yeah, I'm trying to change the subject. I'm bored with the Schiavo threads so I'm trying to start a new discussion)

DU had some contentious threads recently about rape and abortion. Many implied that the drunk woman somehow was to blame for her rape. Drunk female teens are suppused to not get themselves into this position. :wtf:

Then there are the eternal abortion threads. Somehow if you get pregnant and you were raped then most think it's OK to get an abortion. The next step is that if you get pregnant and you used birth control then OK. Does anyone get the pattern? "Pure women' deserve reproductive choice but the all the rest of us don't.

So, I'm acknowledging my mistakes. I got drunk at a party or two. I got drunk at a fraternity party and a couple of men got me home. I had sex with a broken condom and thank god that I didn't get pregnant. I suspect every person on this board has similar stories. I was lucky.

[Left Is Write]

1. A few times I was lucky I wasn't raped.

And one time, I wasn't so lucky.

[Fenris]

2. Sadly, I was never lucky that I wasn't raped.

[cally]

94. If you were raped then I hope you had support

Appears that you are a rape victim and I can be a more sensitive person than I appear on this thread. I hope you already found some support but if you need someone :hug:

[LiberalinNC]

3. Not only were you "lucky" you didn't get pregnant, you're lucky

you didn't get Aides or anything else.

What's w/ the confession? :shrug:

[cally]

9. The point is that few of us are perfect

I'm annoyed that women are blamed for rape when they go to a party or on a date.

BTW, when this happened Aids did not exist. Well, it probably did in a few isolated cases in Africa.

[LiberalinNC]

11. No body is perfect! A rape victim/survivor should never be blamed

if we continue to "blame" them, the bastard rapists would never be jailed.

BTW when I was 18 I was "date raped". Never reported it, was ashamed, thought I did something to "deserve" it. Looking back 20 + years I know I did nothing wrong, it was all him. (His brother was friends w/ my cousin, who beat the shit out of him when he found out!)

[_TJ_]

71. Fucking well deserved

I'm the last person in the world to advocate violence but in lieu
of jailtime a good asskicking is better than nothing.

[mtnester]

102. Exact same thing here...

date rape at 18, told no one because we had been smoking a little weed and I thought the cops would laugh me out of the office.

Although I did have the privilege of watching a large group of my friends beat the hell out of him in front of me. It was like a present, I was on a front porch of a friends house, it was summer, I was taken out on the porch and told to have a seat in this really comfortable rocking chair, I was given a cool beverage, and then they brought him around to the front of the house and proceeded to pound his ass while I watched.

I thanked everyone involved for their "gift" to me, and have never confessed any sin for my pleasure of that day.

[Left Is Write]

12. Blame is exactly the reason I waited years

to tell anyone what happened to me. At the time I had never heard the term "date rape."

I was out with the guy voluntarily, so what happened couldn't have been rape, right? And it must have somehow been my fault, right? That was more than 21 years ago.

[salin]

28. Such a similar story

but mine was "acquaintance rape" - at home - sober and uninvited. Friends urged me to go to the dean of students - but I couldn't. I remember what happened to another girl who made such a charge... she was ostracized... cast in a story as a drunken promiscuous person ... and there was no term ... "RAPE" still meant a stranger, jumping out of the bushes with a knife to your throat.

Being pinned down... unable to move and then.. well... raped... now that wasn't rape if you knew the guy (in my case a friend who dropped by at night claiming to be in distress over his girlfriend.... ) Same time frame, my friend. Took years to pull it out and deal with it. :hug:

[Left Is Write]

44. Thank you for the hug.

I think I needed that. Right back at you. :hug:

[thinkingwoman]

87. 21 years ago

date rape was never talked about, was it?

The first time I heard the term was in college, four years after I'd already been a victim. I remember hearing the term and the definition and becoming violently sick to my stomach.

I ran from the room and luckily someone followed me and talked to me. Until that night, I'd never felt like I was a victim. I'd always believed that what had happened to me all those years earlier was my fault, since I knew the guy of course.

[cally]

95. I had heard the term at that point

In those radical feminist/lesbian circles, we were talking about it. I'm happy a friend followed you at that time. Have you shared this and gotten help?

[thinkingwoman]

96. yep...

happily married mother of two teens now. Past is long behind me.

I'm actually considering finding a way to help others now.

[_TJ_]

49. Only a fool would blame the victim for the crime

I don't get this type of thinking at all.

[Modem Butterfly]

4. I was almost raped once

I had the presence of mind to grab, squeeze, and twist. Then, when my attacker was on the floor, I kicked him really, really hard in the face a couple of times. I think I may have broken his nose. I didn't go to the police because of that because at the time I was 18 and I thought I would get in trouble for assault. Silly me.

[brainshrub]

8. Good for you!

I hope he lost some teeth and that he suffered a long, long time.

[porphyrian]

5. Well, they shouldn't get themselves into this position...

...but, once it happens, the victim should not be blamed. People should be careful of what situations they get themselves into because of the predators among us. However, merely being a drunk teen girl amongst shady characters does not guarantee rape - the rapist is responsible for this.

[_TJ_]

51. It is a sad world we live in

when a gal can't have a few drinks and a few laughs without
risking being attacked! :( :( :(

[salin]

6. If you combine the two than I guess, in a way, I was lucky

I was raped. Not drunk at a party. But raped.

Didn't get pregnant as a result.

Never thought of the first situation as a reason to consider myself "lucky". And you know... even though the latter didn't happen - I still don't feel lucky.

Many rape victims know that they have two distinct lives. Life pre-rape; and life post-rape. Can't begin to describe how much changes in that one moment.

Because I have seen some pretty ignorant things posted on rape threads in the past, I stay off of them like the plague. Because sooner or later there is some statement about the victim being lucky for not getting pregnant as well (and this is usually while challenging whether or not a rape was committed, or while explaining how more frequently "false accusations" happen than rapes :eyesroll:

[cally]

14. I sincerely apologize if I implied that you were lucky not

getting pregnant when you were raped. I know my intent and I never meant to imply that because that is just a stupid thing to think. I'm sorry.

[salin]

24. Thanks

but I have heard it expressed before - so I had to make that point. I also wanted to point out that there are real rape victims among us... and how we read the hot air that gets spewed whenever the issue comes up. Folks like talking about it in the third party - but they get a tad uncomfortable when having to put a real, known person into the equation. Oh, we read I had a friend... or a relative... but then follows the "exceptions"... and then back to a third party "theoretical" discussion.

Thing that kills me, is that about 1/3 women between the age of 15 and 30 (or is it 35) are victims of rape. Now we know that there are not just three really violent and horny men going out there and committing all of those rapes. So - some of these perps are friends, relatives, sons, and heaven forbid husbands and/or SOs. If we can't talk about the realities - and in real terms... how are we ever going to shift the mentality that can lead to one not comprehending the line of rape? There are some very "normal" guys out there - who simply hear all of the excusing that goes on and read that excusing as validation (see I'm normal... all guys think/act this way).... for their views towards women and towards phsycially coercive sex (that is... rape.)

[Misunderestimator]

23. Damn.

That completely sucks... :hug:

I don't think cally meant to put the two together though... I think she meant to call lucky those of us who actually came close to being raped, like I have, but who escaped being raped. For that, I do consider myself lucky. I also consider myself lucky that I never became pregnant or got any stds through consensual sex back before anyone knew of aids and I was only using a diaphragm. I think that it was those two things that cally meant, not that you are lucky to have not become pregnant as a result of the rape.

Because of my close calls, I can sympathize with victims of rape and defend them against idiots who blame the victim by saying that they shouldn't put themselves in danger. Irritates the shit out of me when people do that. :mad:

[salin]

26. Thanks - and I don't think that was the intention

of the thread - but it did give me the opportunity to point out - that some do react to the situation of rape... as ... well at least you/she didn't get pregnant.... So I took the opp. to do a rant. Ignorance abounds per the issue - so I guess I just decided a little side wise thread jack would let me vent against things I have heard elsewhere and read here at Du.

Thanks for your support! :loveya:

[Misunderestimator]

30. Yikes... someone said something like that!?!

:mad: Unbelievable! If I'd seen that here, I would have replied with a post that would soon be deleted.

:loveya: too

[salin]

32. the sentiment has been expressed

but not to me, here. I have heard a variation of it - in person. Believe it or not in an attempt to show sympathy/empathy.

Thanks :D

[cally]

35. If I had seen someone post that idiocy

I would have told them they were idiots. I probably would have been more polite but I'm sorry you felt attacked.

[salin]

37. Believe it or not... it isn't as bad around here as it was a couple of

years ago. NSMA can talk about the all time worst, offensive post in a rape thread, if she choses to. Yep. awufl. There was also a dude who once opined about how girls liked the mean type... and went downhill from there into language suggesting that rape was tied in some f*cked up way to survival of the fittest (where the meanest most dominating dude - gets to perpetuate himself)... that was a sick one. Then there were just the general appologists who really believed that every situation was false accusations and the women were always trying to trap the guys and then when thwarted turned around to do the false acc. thing. :eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. funny I was just reading that thread the other night

Downloaded it onto my computer in the event that the knuckledragger who posted it wasn't tombstoned.

Interesting thing..the Haidl story has been a big one here in OC...one of the comments in my LAT this morning was how in spite of the convictions the jurors were VERY unsympathetic to the victim...truly sad.

[salin]

50. that is awfully sad

yikes.

btw there is a post down thread that reminds me of the other latenight post/poster to which I referred. Not as bad or as blatant... but takes a turn in the post that is rather similar. Personally I think that reflects the type of thinking that allows some to act on impulses... as in.. this is what women "REALLY" want. Others just reflect the attitude as a rationalization.. but repeating the attitude, imo, I think validates attitudes and behaviors in others that leads to said behavior.

[cally]

31. That was my intent but I do recognize that

my wording was not as sensitive as I meant. What can I say. I was/am pissed at some of the threads and I let that get to me. I do know better and I apologize to all I offended.

Thanks for the support misunderestimator.

[_TJ_]

55. Please don't stay off those threads

If people who know what the hell they are talking about don't
correct the enormous amount of ignorance that abounds nobody's
attitude will ever change. :(

[salin]

66. Thank you

I just had to take a break - it takes a great deal of emotional energy to discuss these issues with those prone to great rationalizations... who will go to very odd discussion points to justify their statements. Very hard to do.

Thanks - and I will keep that in mind - and try to force myself to peek in and see if those who have the energy to combat are doing okay or if additional voices are needed.

Please do the same.

[blondeatlast]

7. Imagine if men had to pay for their errors in judgment the way

many women do, with similar, life altering, lifetime consequences.

I've been lucky, indeed, and find it all the easier to put myself in a victim's position because of it. I did fight off a date rape successfully once, and I wasn't even drunk (and have never used drugs, fwiw).

I suspect the guy had done it before on women who were compromised--he was completely startled that I was so capable of fighting him off and mystified that I rejected him.

It's all about a feeling of "entitlement," and we have a long way to go in that regard.

[Left Is Write]

33. Re: Entitlement

That's a perfect way to describe the attitude of the man who attacked me. Entitlement. He was incredulous that I did not want to have sex with him and seemed shocked that I would say "no" after he paid for my dinner and a couple of games of pool. His attitude was that sex was his due, I owed him, and he was getting it no matter what. He told me he could break my arms and that it would be "fun" for him to do it. I was seventeen.

[blondeatlast]

38. It's quite pervasive, it would seem.

I have no idea where the idea comes form, but I see it everywhere. My husband, who is from India, was very confused in college that women really didn't have slumber parties in skimpy negligees and willingly give in to young men (note that he never would have considered taking advantage of either situation--it wasn't just the culture, it was how he was raised).

It seems to have become an ugly reality in this culture. I wish I could pinpoint where it came from.

I'm so sorry that you had to face that.

[_TJ_]

59. What an obnoxious asshole

I hope you called the cops.

[Left Is Write]

63. No. I didn't.

It was 1983. I was a naive teenager. I had never heard the term "date rape." Who would have believed I was raped? I went out with the guy of my own volition. I willingly got into the car with him. I was violated, but how was I going to prove a crime had been committed? I wasn't even sure it was a crime.

[okieinpain]

10. being drunk and getting raped, is like walking down a dark alley

flashing a wad of money.

[salin]

13. In college

I saw a lot of drunk men and women... sadly (early eighties) it was standard operating procedure. So the girls were like flashing a wad of money while walking down a dark alley... and what were the boys like?

And how do we explain - getting raped, while sober, in one's own apartment? Maybe previously one wore a little too attractive of an outfit and was like waving a was of money at one who would later come and seek it out?

Sorry- that attitude is a little hard to take.

[jdj]

25. the boys were rapists.

and they knew they were.

I just wish someone had warned me, somehow, about college. Why can't we tell young women the truth about this stuff. Maybe they know now, I didn't. I came from a religious background, never drank or had alcohol in the house at all. I remember the first time I got drunk at college and "it" happened, I was drinking with friends. This one guy kept handing me beers. He would open one and hand it to me just as I finished the last one. I was unbelievably naive. I remember actually thinking "wow, college boys sure have good manners". I passed out or blacked out, and when I came too, well you know the rest. Same old song and dance. I can't believe I was sent into that enviroment as young and stupid and naive as I was. I think many girls now are more astute. At least I hope so. I know if I had a teenage daughter, I would really really try to get her not to go off and live in a dorm. I would be the parent teens love to hate.

And I do believe that these men knew what they did was wrong and they will pay for it, though maybe not in this life.

What we don't talk about is that there is tacit permission given to these young men to do this. Somewhere there is a green light given. There were some ancient cultures where the penalty for rape was death. We don't live in that kind of culture.

[salin]

36. that is horrible

I am so sorry that happened to you. There is NO excuse - and the "asking for it" theme is so dismissive ... it is what allows the attitudes to become so pervasive that frankly breed conditions in which young men think that this is acceptable behavior - or at least acceptable enough that there will be no consequences.

I said this up thread.. there are a heck of a lot of rapes... more than to be attributable to a handful of "bad boys". These are sons, brothers, cousins, friends... who somehow have taken the cue that their attitudes towards women and sex (mine to take even if by force or.. by creating conditions for no need for force ala alcohol, ruphies or other means) is not out of bounds, is somehow validated by society.

best wishes. Only in finally being able to discuss it - do we, imo, get to a point where we can be less effected by it.

[cally]

16. That's insane

Are you serious?

[likesmountains 52]

17. you could not be more wrong...

maybe you have to be female to understand being vulnerable. What if you were drunk at a party and got robbed or beat up by someone larger and stronger than you? Would you have been "asking for it?"

[blondeatlast]

18. Suppose you, as a man. faced the same consequences after

a college night out? Men can get drunk off their ass, and face no bodily harm at all. Men don't pounce on a guy who passes out and beat the crap out of him just because they could.

Make an attempt to understand, at least.

[Misunderestimator]

21. So no woman should ever get drunk I suppose...

:eyes:

[Yupster]

86. Not getting drunk

doesn't sound like the worst advice for men or women, regardless of age or situation.

I don't know any god things that come of getting drunk, but oh there are soi many bad ones.

[jdj]

22. geez.

but if a man gets raped in a dark alley it's a horrendous crime by an evil homosexual who should be put to death, eh?

isn't this the real reason men won't cop to their rapes, because they know in this case they'll be judged just like women are, that they "wanted it, deserved it, asked for it" and that makes them gay, which is just as bad as being female in this culture?

[Technowitch]

53. Bullshit!

Getting drunk does NOT invite a rape.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

56. Yeah...I had a couple drinks...please rape me

(sarcasm)

Every time you post this you JUSTIFY the perp and blame the victim...

[dsc]

88. that is just stupid

I will say that abusing alcohol is both dangerous and unwise, but the idea that one deserves to get raped due to having done so is just plain bullshit. If I got raped everytime I drank too much I would have been raped quite a lot.

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Couldn't you have thought of a better topic to discuss?

[cally]

19. Sure, but I was reading the threads in the Women's forums

and re-reading the rape threads. I got angry all over again. I think we need to discuss these subjects to promote understanding. If you choose to ignore it, then that's fine. I do think too many pretend rape and unwanted pregnancy won't happen to them or their loved ones. That's how we end up with so much ignorance.

[jdj]

27. I think this was a good call.

thanks for a non-TS thread. (I even just started one) whatever it takes.

[Left Is Write]

29. What's wrong with this topic?

If it's not something you want to discuss, hide the thread and start one on a topic you DO want to discuss.

[loudestchick]

20. I was 14 and getting stoned with my 16yr old male next door neighbor

He kissed me. I didn't try to stop him, I was high. He put his hand under my t-shirt. I didn't try to stop him, I was high. When he raped me, I tried to stop him, but I was high. I don't even know who I might have become.

It's been a really hard road from there to here. I've been with more men and women than I can recall. No STD's. 2 abortions and one early miscarriage.

22 yrs later, I know who I AM. I now have a husband and three beautiful children who are so loved and wanted.

I'm lucky to be alive.

[_TJ_]

65. Bless you lc

I am SO glad that you were able to cope with all of this. It must
have been a nightmare. :(

[Yupster]

89. A very happy ending for you

or middle hopefully. Maybe even a better ending playing with six great grandchildren.

Congratulations on becoming what you are.

From what I hear of college today, things are worse than they were when I went 20 years ago, and they were bad then.

Back then a guy could date and have sex with 20 women a year, mostly drunk or high.

Today I hear they've even given up on the dating part and just 'hook up' for a night of sex while drinking or smoking dope.

Any advice on how this can be turned around? It seems like such unnecessary problems we give ourselves when we're too young to handle them.

[tubbacheez]

34. Every day I don't get raped or pregnant is a lucky day.

Any day I do, should such a thing happen, would be considered, therefore, an unlucky day.

[tomreedtoon]

39. When I was a teenage boy, this happened...

I was at an unsupervised picnic. I sat on the ground across from a girl who I barely knew from Junior Achievement. She was drunk. I didn't want sex. I just wanted a female to look at my face for a bit without throwing up.

Well, she did, rather spectacularly. I like to think it was the massive quantity of booze she had glugged down, but that's probably just my ego talking.

Well, let me be honest too. I was a horny teenage boy and I had my hopes. But having been beaten up by other people since first grade, I would never force myself on a woman. I couldn't allow myself to be as cruel as other people. I was hoping she might think kindly of me and offer me a little physical comfort of her own free will. I know that comparatively makes me a wimp. So be it.

I don't claim that women want to be raped or abused. But instead of being friends with relatively nice, harmless, kindly guys, they choose to be in the company of abusive, violent bastards. And I've seen this pattern repeat so often it's almost passed from the category of "rule" into "law of the universe."

[salin]

45. Wow...and you were doing so well

You made the first point very well - that even given the "opportunity" not all boys will "take advantage". Good.

However, you veer into odd territory. Not raping her, makes you a wimp? er. What?!

How do you go to the point that it is a "rule" that women (inferred "all" women) select abusive, violent basturds to be with? Some girls, undoubtedly, are messed up - and will select scary men (often these are repeating cycles... were abused earlier... or watched a mother be abused.. etc.) But most women do not. You suggest that everyone who is in a relationship or married is married to a violent *sshole prone to rape. That is absurd. And it doesn't quite track with the previous statement that you are not claiming that women want to be raped or abused. Becuase if they don't want it then the wouldn't "universially" select mates prone to doing it.

I am sorry that to date you have not had good luck with girls. But don't give up. Most women I know have ended up with really great, nice, "harmless" guys. But I suggest that you drop this conflicting view that really does suggest that women are asking for it by suggesting that "universally" they select only abusive ment.... it might be part of what you project (in terms of views of girls) that gets in the way.

[Yupster]

91. I saw this phenomena

as a ninth grade (14-15) teacher for 10 years. It was something the teachers would comment on quite a bit.

Some of the very best girls in the school (best grades, groomed, etc)would go out with these completely thuggish-druggie looking guys often right out of juvenile detention. It happened over and over for 10 years. It would seemingly never happen the other way. You would never see one of the top boys going out with a girl who looked like a drug addict or had a police record, but the opposite was common.

My explanation for it was that the girls developed faster than the boys and the very best boys just weren't dating yet. Don't know if it was right, but it was the best I could come up with anyway.

The suspect boys often were a year or two older than the top girls as they had been left back a year or two so that kind of fit my thesis anyway.

Anyway, it was a weird and troubling penomenon.

[tomreedtoon]

99. Sorry, too late. I've given up.

That incident, and many other incidents, was clear proof that relationships with the opposite sex (or the same sex, for that matter) is a mug's game. You end up sacrificing too much; your integrity, your time, your money, your dreams and your soul, for an illusion that will creep up behind you and stab you with a kitchen knife in the end.

And yes, I was (and am) a wimp, several decades later even. I can't be the bastard that women want their men to be.

[Left Is Write]

46. No, you're not a wimp.

Not forcing yourself on someone certainly doesn't qualify as "wimpy."

Your last paragraph troubles me. Do you know how many "relatively nice, harmless, kindly" appearing guys turn out to be "abusive, violent bastards"? I didn't know I was going out with a rapist until he raped me.

[salin]

52. Ironically

I think that the continued pushing of this belief (that women universally choose abusive, violent men)... can have the unintended effect of validating the behavior of "friends" or acquaintances who keep hearing that meme - and internalize it as validation of "I am just giving her what she wants" (as it is so universal, and all). Really sad. Don't think intentional - but nonetheless...

[tomreedtoon]

100. Perhaps the Law of Unintended Consequences?

Perhaps that's in effect. I don't go around telling women how self-destructive they are. All I do is watch it happen to the women I meet, shake my head sadly and go on my way. What good would it do to tell them what they are doing? They'd go into denial mode, then go ahead and look for someone who isn't a wimp like me...meaning the potential rapists you talk about.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. Your logic confuses me. You didn't rape her so she should have at least

been nice enough to have sex with you?

[tomreedtoon]

98. No, perhaps I didn't make it clear...

...I would have been satisfied with a smile and a few kind words like "Gee, I don't think you're hideous" or "You're not a moron like everyone says you are."

Except, of course, what I got was a stream of vomit and the task of carrying the poor little drunk girl back to her car so someone else could drive her home. Never saw her again, and sometimes I wonder who (or what) she ended up with. Except I'm certain it wouldn't be her choice, if she was drunk.

[_TJ_]

67. many girls do go for assholes

But I think we can agree they don't deserve to be raped by
them. :( :(

[tomreedtoon]

101. Oh, of course they don't "deserve" to be.

Just the same way that children who play in a street full of traffic don't deserve to be hit. But if those kids are playing in the street, see one of their friends hit and killed by a car, and then go back to playing in the street...well, I'm sure there's some kind of continuum between ignorance and stupidity, and with each succeeding incident they edge to the stupid side of the spectrum.

(By the way, the "playing in the street" metaphor came from Philip K. Dick, science fiction author and drug addict. In his book "A Scanner Darkly," he added a nonfictional postscript. And said, "Drug abuse is not a disease; it is a conscious choice, like the choice to step in front of a moving car." I think the same phenomenon is functioning in matters of the heart.)

[Technowitch]

40. A couple incidents come to mind

One was shortly after my divorce, and I was on a business trip. I had a habit of hanging out in the hotel bar -- where I met some really nice people. Late-ish one night, we all decided to go dancing at a club. (This is unusual because I don't usually dance...) Both before we left for the club and while we were there, this one guy kept flattering me. "Oh you're so pretty" -- yadda yadda.

Sad thing is some part of me responded and bought it. This wasn't the bad part though. The problem came when I noticed it was quite late and I couldn't find the person with whom I'd ridden to the club. So I called a cab. Unfortunately, Mr. Flattery had decided to attach himself like a limpet to me, and insisted on seeing me back to the hotel.

Along the way, he started pawing at me, even though I said I didn't want to go there. Back at the hotel a short time later, he tried to walk me back to my room -- but I wasn't having any of it. I'm extremely empathic, and knew full well what was about to happen. Instead, I told him I had business with the desk clerk, and insisted just as strongly that he take the cab and go. When I got to my room, I threw the deadbolt and shook like a leaf for a solid hour before I finally fell asleep.

Some might say that I could've been wrong about this guy, but I am 100% positive I'm not. I could feel a 'date-rape' situation coming.

Another 'avoided rape' was another I recounted in a separate thread in the DU Lounge -- when someone was asking about casino experiences. One night in Vegas, back when I was working there part-time for a control system company, I was playing blackjack -- as I often did. Also as I often did, I'd get drinks from the passing cocktail waitresses. Over the course of about 2 1/2 hours play, I had one glass of wine, and drank about half of a second.

Let me add here that I can drink an entire BOTTLE of wine and generally be quite functional (even if by then it's best if I don't drive). I have extremely high tolerance to alcohol.

At that time, my same-sex spouse and I decided it was time to go. Only on the way out of the casino, I began feeling more and more woozy. When we got to the parking garage, I told my wife I didn't feel up to driving. Back then, we owned a house about 15-20 minutes away from this casino -- and along the drive, my vision began to tunnel. Yeah, we figured out then that something really bad had happened, and we debated whether or not to take me to a hospital instead. Thing is, I was extremely lucid... just increasingly incapacitated.

Eventually, we got to our house and she had to help me in, because I couldn't walk very well or see clearly anymore. Inside, there was no question of going upstairs -- I passed out on the floor. My last words were, "I'm pretty sure I'm going to be okay. But I need to go away for a while now."

My breathing got very slow and deep, and my wife fretted over me for the next three hours. After that, she managed to rouse me enough to get me up and into bed, but I don't remember any of it.

The next day, we called the casino to report the incident. They reviewed the surveillance tapes, but didn't see anything. Well, not quite -- they did say that a bearded gentleman appeared to have been watching me for some time.

Our current theory is that he either paid off the bartender or someone between him and me, to spike my drink with something. That I was deliberately drugged, we have no doubt whatsoever. The only thing that saved me was that whoever it was obviously didn't know I wasn't alone.

-Technowitch

[salin]

47. frightening description

all should read it. Glad that you are okay. What a dreadful sounding experience.

[Technowitch]

64. It was terrifying

And to be quite frank, it more or less ruined casino gambling for me.

That first incident I recounted COULD have been just my instincts and fears.

The second though... there was no doubt that I was drugged. For a time, I had a recurring nightmare where I actually had been alone at the casino -- becoming increasingly disabled. And then the bearded guy "helping" me up to his room or out to his car...

*shudder*

I'm positive that's what was supposed to have happened.

[Left Is Write]

69. I got a chill reading that.

Very frightening. I'm glad the scenario didn't play out as it could have.

[salin]

70. Not only supposed to have happened

but probably happened before and since by the bearded guy. That is one of the awful things about our silence around rape - esp when we thrash those who come forward to make the charge... that the perp is out there... and likely doing it again.

That has haunted me for years. The guy who raped me, in part due to my silence at the time, has likely done the same thing to other unsuspecting women. My deepest appologies - from the deepest part of my soul - to any and all of those women.

[Technowitch]

77. Yeah... but sometimes reporting doesn't help either

I mean, I -DID- report the drugging incident.

The trouble is, none of the surveillance tapes showed anything. Hell, I mean, I suppose it's even possible I got a drink meant for somebody else, and the bearded guy (whose face I can still remember) just thought I was an attractive chick in a short black skirt. Or maybe it wasn't that at all, and he just wanted to watch me play blackjack.

The only undisputed fact is that I was drugged.

But you are 100% right: We MUST report these things. I'll admit, at the time, I was so shaken by what happened, I almost didn't call the casino.

Why? To this day, I don't know exactly. Call it an impulse of denial, I suppose. To report the crime meant I had to acknowledge it had happened and that I was a victim. Somehow that makes the feelings of vulnerability even worse.

I mean, I'm glad I reported it. But you're right as well, that I'm still haunted by the notion that this guy -- or someone else I didn't even see, whether I was the intended victim or not -- is still likely committing these crimes.

*hugs* to you, Salin. Try to learn to forgive yourself, okay?

-Technowitch

[salin]

80. I would bet that because you reported it

awareness was raised by those reviewing the tape. Had the bartender been involved - bet he realized how easily he could have been caught (and therefor stopped); Bet there will be a greater eye out for potential drugged victims - and awareness means a greater ability to intervene... even if it is a gentle intervention eg a "Maam are you alright" to see if she can speak/respond. Let's hope that is the case.

Thanks - I have tried... but when the topic comes up again - that guilt resurfaces - not the original guilt (ala what did I do.. what could have done differently.... etc etc.) but the guilt of possibly allowing this to happen to others. But I will work on the self-forgivenss... I promise. thanks.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. Not to 'buck' the trend

But not all survivors of rape can even get pregnant. I know that getting pregnant was not a concern for me, but I was raped anyway. Sometimes, I think people forget men can be raped too. I knew the person well and didn't expect it. To make it worse, he even admitted it afterward. He said, "Damn, it was like I had to rape you." I said; "It was rape. I told you to stop!" He then laughed, "Well, that was the best rape I have ever had." The irony? I was a rape peer counselor at the time, and even with what I said, I still felt like it was my fault because I went willing to his room.

Rape is NEVER about sex and ALWAYS about power!

[Left Is Write]

43. You're right - it's a crime of power.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[Behind the Aegis]

82. Thank you.

:)

[cally]

54. Rape is always about power and control

and never about sex. I hope you KNOW this now, but you are not at fault. And yes, I do know that rape happens to men and again I apologize for my implied insensitivety.

[Behind the Aegis]

83. No apology needed

I am just a little more sensitive to issues revolving around sexual assault and rape. (This statement doesn't sound right, but I can't think of how to phrase it. I am not trying to say you are insensitive! :)) I don't ever mean to imply it is worse for one sex over another, because it is not. However, men are often left out of the discussion as survivors. When rape is discussed, it sometimes turns into male-bashing, which I can understand to some extent. But, this shuts down conversation. Understand I am not accusing you of this, it is just something I see in discussions about rape and sexual assault.

I know now, and I did know then, I was not to blame. However, then, after the fact, it was all so confusing. Talk about get a dose of empathy! I COMPLETELY understood from that point on, why people didn't/don't report rape!

I appreciate your response and apology (although not needed)! :)

[salin]

57. There it is!

It is always about POWER! SOmetimes I think sex is mixed into it - but for folks for whom the two are entertwined... where sexual fulfilment requires sadistic domination.

That said - I am so sorry about your experience. We talk about male rape victims even less that we talk about female victims ... and granted in the last ten years or so we have begun to talk more about the latter. Shame, self-blame, gawd is that common... we have got to get that out of the public psyche (which is why we internalize it).

I can't believe this perp joked about it. Horrendous!

[_TJ_]

68. Obnoxious subject removed - my apologies

I'm only a small guy but a man would have to be a MONSTER to get
me into that situation without me ripping his fucking balls off.

Not that I'm blaming you in ANY way shape or form.

I should also add that you have my utter utter sympathy. If
something like that happened to me I don't know how I would
cope :(

[cally]

75. I think you are being sarcastic....

I hope so

[_TJ_]

78. Please forgive my ignorance

I know this happens to guys all the time but it's not something
that's spoken about much so I don't know much about it.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic - I'm just ignorant about how
this type of thing happens and I'm trying to learn.

I didn't mean to give the wrong impression.

[Greybnk48]

48. I'm lucky I didn't get pregnant from 1964 to 1970!!

Lots of dumb, risky decisions. And I wasn't promiscuous by the standards of the day, or today.

[Ironpost]

60. well bless you heart

[oldcoot]

61. When I was sixteen,

I was threatened by a bunch of male classmates with gang rape. I tried to punch one of the boys but missed. They backed off after that. I do not know if they were just joking or decided to back off when they realized that I might fight back. The teacher of the class knew that the other students were giving me a hard time and gave me permission to punch the other kids. He did not intervene.

I think the tendency to blame the victim allows people to convince themselves that they are safe. However, such attitudes endanger us all. We have seen how this mentality leads to poor laws such as the new bankruptcy act (no responsible person would spend beyond his or her means) and to bad foreign policy decisions (the Iraqis deserved to be killed because all Muslims are terrorists). Do we really want to send the message to rape victims that they should be afraid to come forward because they might have to endure additional humiliation? Remember anyone who is morally capable of raping one woman is probably capable of raping many more.

[Freebird12004]

62. I wouldn't say it was luck.

or maybe it was - because I've never been raped.

Every woman deserves the right to make her own reproductive choices !

[peace frog]

72. Back in the late '70s I was an intended victim

of a serial rapist in Dade County, Florida dubbed by the media as the "Bird Road Rapist". His M/O was to follow lone female drivers along isolated stretches of Bird Rd, Miller Rd and Sunset Dr, drive up right against their rear bumpers and flash his lights to make them stop their cars, then attack them. The local newspaper refused to print details of the rapes so as not to alarm the populace, which means I was unaware of this creep's crimes.

Anyhoo, I was headed into South Miami down Sunset Drive to visit friends one fine evening when Numbnuts appeared out of nowhere and pulled the headlight-flashing routine, but I did NOT stop the car or pull over as he was used to his victims doing. I did, however, get a very good look at his face in the reflected lights of my rear-view mirror. Enraged, he pulled his car alongside mine on the left and I saw he was aiming a gun at my head. HA, right! Like I'm gonna sit still for him to shoot me! I slammed on the gas and tore off down the road, while Nutjob peeled off in another direction.

I arrived at my friends' home safe and sound and chalked the incident up to a random bizarre encounter with a weirdo. Later (much later) the newspaper finally went public with the story because there were so many victims, and I realized my would-be assailant was probably the infamous Bird Road Rapist. Sure enough, when they finally caught the creep, I immediately recognized his photo as the same face I saw that night in my rearview mirror. He was convicted, sentenced and incarcerated... good riddance!

[oldcoot]

73. Good thing that you kept your head

Many people would have panicked after seeing the gun. I am glad that you got away.

[salin]

74. Wow...

scary brush with evil. Idiotic that they didn't give folks warnings about the MO. Granted, not sure what you could have done differently. glad you made it away from him.

[_TJ_]

76. PHEEW!!

That story scared the bejeesus out of me. I thought it was going
to have a much worse ending.

[brainshrub]

81. Welcome to DU

:toast:

[bigwillq]

90. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[peace frog]

92. Thanks for the welcome!

I'm happy to be here. :grouphug:

[luvLLB]

79. more times than I care to admit...

[SoCalDem]

84. If you are female, rape is a "fact of life"

College in the late 60's was not all "free" love.. Lots of it was "stolen"..

There was not "polite term" for it.. Today we have "Date rape".. Back then we just had.. "Boy, was I stupid to get so drunk"..and then we all just went to class.

Times are different now, and even though I had only sons, I told them in no uncertain terms that NO MEANS NO..

They came into their teens knowing that I was sexually abused as a child, and they saw the meltdown I had over it as I came to terms with my life, so I think they have a realistic sense that "things that happen to a young person affect them for their whole life".

[_TJ_]

85. Good for you

I wish more parents would instill these good values in their
boys.

[cally]

93. The world is a better place for it

It's not just your sons but all the friends they shared with.

I'm so sorry for what happened to you Socal. :hug:

[salin]

97. Interesting discussion

thanks for getting it started...

and a kick for the late crowd - to see what might be added...