I'm not a conspiracy nut...however.

[HEyHEY]

ANd forgive me if this has been posted already. I didn't see it.

But anyone else find it a little strange that the same day oil drops two bucks a barrel the plant that kicks out three per cent of gasoline in the US blows up?


I know tinfoil hat, but I figured I'd think out loud. Of course I suppose "The companies" lost more on the plant than oil.

[Cleita]

1. I dunno. Nothing in the proletariat news here. Right

now I'm listening to a story about a woman who bit into a Wendy's burger and bit into a human finger. So I hope you guys get some news up there?

[HEyHEY]

2. That's the wendy's story?

Heard a bit.

I've been out since I heard about the plant. Just found out form a friend the severity of it.
However, oil DID drop two dollars a barrel today.

[caligirl]

3. Love those bear photos, I have

a large one framed and hanging over my sons bed.

The refinery's haven't been replaced in years. They need to build new ones, but why do that if the lack of capacity rakes in the mega bucks for you. Market manipulation.

[smiley]

4. What refineries?

sorry... the first I've looked at news all day.

[BrklynLiberal]

7. Huge oil refinery in Texas Ciry Texas had an explosion. People died.

MSM all but ignoring it.

[caligirl]

8. While the oill prices sky rocketed the Saudi Ambassador said

they could supply as much oil as we want if we ask for it. He said that wasn't the problem it was the insufficient numbers of refineries her in usa. The oil people haven't built a new refinery in 20 years or more. I wish i had the exact words, but this is the major point they made with regard to high cost of a barrel.

[MichaelHarris]

10. that's because

the media wanted to bomb you with Terri Schiavo stories and cover up a petrolchemical explosion. See petrochem explosion stories are bad for bush and ANWAR drilling. Besides God owns all the media now and they program according to his/her and Bill Oreilly's wishes.

[Jamastiene]

5. They'll get their money back

from "JR's administration" for the plant PLUS it'll send the price of oil back up. Having freaking JR Ewing for president is killing us all. I can't pretend not to see through the bullshit. It's causing my bullshit'o'meter needle to "peg" at this point. Why, oh why, has America become such a fascist country? What the hell did we dems do wrong to deserve this bullshit? What did everyone on the whole planet do to deserve this hideous administration? There must be some light somewhere up ahead, right?

[Nothing Without Hope]

6. Yes, that has occurred to me. They need a "reason" to keep the oil

prices as sky-high as they can possibly go. Reasons are easily manufactured, and these guys will stop at nothing.

So yes, it's possible. We may never be sure, whatever we read in the corporate media.

[seventythree]

9. same wavelength

when hubby and I heard it on the news, I turned to him and said, very calmly, "Bush did it."

[FreedomAngel82]

16. I could see it

If not Bush at least his father had some hand in it. The whole family are oil men and every person in his administration has some ties to oil or his father. I'm listening to Bernie Ward and his news person told about it and said how prices are going up now. I can't remember how much. *sigh* Of course the republicans probably won't put two and two together.

[seventythree]

23. I didn't mean it, literally, of course.

[Wright Patman]

11. There's still not anywhere near

the amount of oil being exported from Iraq that there was before the invasion. Under the sanctions, Iraq was allowed to export three million barrels a day. Before Saddam fell out with the BFEE, Iraq was sometimes exporting five million a day, even while fighting a war with Iran.

Another item that gets little mention is that the U.S. dollar has lost around 35 percent of its value since * took office. That alone accounts for about $15 to $20 per barrel of the price increaase. Europe has not had near the increase because the euro has been strengthening all that time.

Also, the U.S. automakers made a "go for broke" decision over the last couple of decades to specialize in mass production of gas-guzzling vehicles on which they have higher profit margins. And now GM, once far and away the world's leading automaker, is just about literally "gone broke."

The energy policy of the U.S. government and its corporate sponsors has been to sneer at conservation while planning to take over the oil fields of the Middle East and Central Asia. This turned out not to have been "produent," as Old Man Bush would say.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Link to thread with many stories about refinery explosion

It was big news all around the world..except the MSM here in the US

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3334706&mesg_id=3334706

[oblivious]

13. Just wondering why you feel it necessary to put 'conspiracy' with 'nut'.

DU researchers have proved a whole mess of conspiracies theories to be true. Yet still you have to promote this idea that anyone who doesn't agree with the government-authorised conspiracy theory is a 'nut'. The ridicule strategy.

I bet I'm not the only one here who gets pissed off by that.

[HEyHEY]

14. I bet that too

"DU researchers have proved a whole mess of conspiracies theories to be true" When?

[oblivious]

19. You could start with all the lies in the lead up to the Iraq war.

There was a clear conspiracy to start an illegal war based on a pack of lies. As far as I remember every lie was shown to be such on DU long before the Bush* and Blair governments finally admitted it.

But you probably would have called those DUers conspiracy nuts.

[HEyHEY]

22. People calling the government liars is not a new thing

It's not like exclusively to DU people were talking about this stuff.

When I say conspiracy nuts I mean these "Oh my god! Bush looked at Colin Powell! We're gonna invade France" kinda people.

[oblivious]

28. Yes, but by putting the two together you are applying this strategy:

to label anyone who questions the "official" explanation of a conspiracy a "nut", i.e. crazy, i.e. a danger to society, i.e. should be locked up.

If you understand what you are doing then you, along with the government-controlled media, are aiding in the cover-up of, and encouraging more, government conspiracies.

If you don't understand what you are doing after being on DU for 1000+ posts, then I guess there is no hope.

[HEyHEY]

32. Re-read my definition of what I consider a conspiracy nut

[oblivious]

44. The straw men cometh.

HEyHEy: "People calling the govt liars is not a new thing."

Did I say it was? Where did that come from?

HEy HEy: "It's not like exclusively to DU people were talking about this stuff.

Again, did I say it was?

But when alternative theories are discussed here, whether or not they start here, the favourite tactic of certain types who want the discussion to stop is to dismiss it by trying to ridicule the discussion with the "conspiracy nuts, tinfoil" insults. And I have to admit it works. A lot of people are afraid of being seen as a "nut", so they keep quiet.

Congratulations! Your strategy is successful.

[HEyHEY]

50. Straw man? Read your own argument

Face up - you're delusional about DU's role in the world.

Strategy? Did I not post this thread to begin with?

[oblivious]

51. I can't see where I've expressed "delusions" about DU's role in the world.

What are you responding to?

I honestly don't know what the point of your OP was. But I noticed in your title your attempt to label people who suspect a conspiracy, or who wish to discuss alternative theories to known conspiracies, as 'nuts'.

[HEyHEY]

54. Read my fucking definition of a conspiracy nut again

Holy shit I feel I've been quite clear on this point

[bpilgrim]

29. when? pfft... Gannon for starters

bush KNEW
Venezuela
Haiti
gitmo
torture
Italian journalist hit
WTC7
LIHOP and MIHOP coined right here on DU

the list is long and hideous but unless your a lounge lizard it would be hard to miss all the stuff DU exposes.

why you think DU's so popular :P

peace

[HEyHEY]

31. DU can't take credit for exposing any of those

[bpilgrim]

39. oh, i guess that settles it, eh?

ewing2001 a friend of mine and former evil DUer coined the terms LIHOP and MIHOP and contributed tirelessly to the FIRST real-time, on-line, open, think-tank analysis of what really happened that horrid day.

GANNON was kicked off by a DU'er

BBV

and there are plenty of others if not broken certainly amplified right HERE that other DU'ers will gladly point out (mad cow, acting up)

DU has had a huge impact on the current critical debate being carried out today.

that should be obvious to all regulars by now.

peace

[HEyHEY]

40. ...

GANNON was kicked off by a DU'er


Link? A blogger got Gannon, it wasn't broken on this website- think tanks are not journalism

[bpilgrim]

42. .

i ain't got it but ask around, besides that ain't the only one i mentioned... don't forget the BIGGIES

LIHOP&MIHOP

peace

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

46. um - you're saying what now?

:shrug:

[Beware the Beast Man]

33. Yes and we blew the lid off the bunny with the pancake on its head!

[HEyHEY]

35. No one saw THAT coming

[asthmaticeog]

34. LIHOP and MIHOP were coined elsewhere.

PLENTY of non-DUers asserted that Bush had foreknowledge of the events of 9/11. Since that hasn't been proven, DU can hardly take credit for proving it.

As for Gitmo and torture, mainstream media broke those stories. Foreign media ably covered Venezuela, the Italian journalist and events in Haiti. Gannon was broken by lefty blogs.

DU is great, but it's not journalism. It's a discussion board. It certainly increased awareness of the things you mentioned, but no conspiracy theories have been proven here.

[bpilgrim]

37. not true

i know the guy who coined them and so do a LOT of other DU'ers. DU was the ORIGINAL 911 think tank/ad hoc investigation/examination of the facts on 911.

saving stories from the memory hole is a DU specialty and certainly a very worthy endeavor.

the in-depth, real-time, open-source news analysis can't be beat anywhere on-line.

if you gotta link, stop holding out ;->

peace

[HEyHEY]

38. DU's done nothing

Wow, a bunch of people sat around thinking about this stuff. Did DU ever once break a story? Was the NYT reporting that a huge scandal was broken by the website Demo craticunderground?

DU is the exact same as liberals anywhere, we talk about the same things, we are the same "thinktank."

Has anyone on DU ever investigated a huge story and broken it on the home page? It's all opinion pieces, there has been no true investigative journalism done here.

[bpilgrim]

41. it's hard to believe folks don't realize the POWER of communications

after all we've been through the past 4 years but if you believe that i'm sure i won't change your mind.

i already gave you a clear and OBVIOUS example LIHOP/MIHOP

besides it's not just about printing it first it's about keeping it going.

like i said why do you think DU is so increasingly popular?

http://images.globalfreepress.com

we are UNPRECEDENTED in HISTORY.

welcome to the revolution

peace

[tigereye]

43. interestingly enough

I do think the conventional media is much more influenced by blogs/ internet than in the past and probably that those sources influence MSM ( I hate that term) stories in a way that was unthinkable in the past. I do agree with you, though, that DU is not a conventional news source and has not "proven" anything.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

48. It was also the original chemtrail site according to many-it's still nutty

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

45. Ah yes - if you are a Lounge frequenter you are oblivious to the all the

revalations streaming in from GD at every moment

[The Magistrate]

52. Like The Lounge Myself, Sir

There are many sound people to be found there....

"Some contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch...."

[ngGale]

53. No, you are not...

conspiracy is the way the right discredits everything we find is true. It's in their plan of action.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. Refineries are very dangerous places. I worked at one in the

early 80's where there was an explosion that killed 6 people. If anything, this explosion might have been due to neglect or deferred maintenance or putting off repairs because of production demands or carelessness. It would be hard to believe that something like that would have been intentional.

[manna]

18. Aiding and Abetting the Polluters

took this from reSearched

http://researched.blogspot.com/2004_10_01_researched_archive.html#109708787293216916


With the passage of these historical enviromental protections, Industry's profit margin was restricted, beyond their usual laissez faire freeforall. Economic allowances were made for industry, with a schedule for the reforms. And most importantly, there were refineries & factories that were free from any of these regulations with the "grandfather clause." But even with these concessions, industry began to blackmail government with their own clever strategy. After 1976, corporations instituted their own moratorium on building new refineries. Industry would rely on these "grandfathered" regulation-free factories for as long as financially feasible, while they fought tooth and nail to dismantle the Clean Air & Clean Water Acts. Many corporations took their "cause" before the courts, while holding legislators hostage to factory close-down threats. Fearing the impact of loss of jobs=revenue in their districts, many legislators would cave to industry agenda. And, in 2000 they struck gold with the election of Bush. Bush would mask deregulation with his orwellian euphemism "Clear Skies Act."...



...The refinery owners aren't lying when they tell you that the rise in oil prices are because they do not have enough refineries open to supply the demand; this was their strategy from the start. Don't let this rip-off fool you. Our overall consumption of oil must decline, if we are to deal with global warming. We are at a turning point in facing the crises of our environment. The EPA estimates that for every dollar spent on air pollution control we will net more than $45 in environmental and human health benefits. These environmental standards will save between $51 and $112 billion each year in medical costs, worker productivity and fewer sick days. (And more kids in school instead of the hospital.) When we take care of the environment, we all win, not just the elite few.
As I have outlined, this is not the first time in history that the oil industry have used "experts" to rip-off the American people. Many of these same experts predicted the peak to hit back in 1989...........so how high do oil prices have to climb before we come down and face reality. The planet needs our help, and the oil industry is not going to allow us to do that until they have squeezed every penny out of us they can get away with, and have found a way to make a profit off of any new form of energy we utilize.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

17. This place is an OSHA nightmare.

http://www.dailysentinel.com/hp/content/gen/ap/TX_Plant_Explosion_Glance.html
The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has issued several citations to BP over two previous accidents at the plant in the past year.

_ Two workers died and another was seriously injured after they were flooded with superheated water in September. OSHA said employees tried to remove a valve from a high-pressure hot water line without first relieving pressure in the line.

The agency proposed a $109,500 fine, saying that BP failed to maintain equipment or provide protective gear. BP is contesting the charges, according to an OSHA spokeswoman.

_ OSHA also cited BP after a furnace pipe ruptured and released flammable vapors that started a fire in March 2004. "BP Amoco had the experience and knowledge to prevent this accident, yet allowed hazardous conditions to develop," OSHA's regional director, Charles Williams, said at the time.
<snip>


Also they'd had to shut down last week for more problems (related?)

http://news.morningstar.com/news/DJ/M03/D18/200503181710DOWJONESDJONLINE001003.html

BP Texas City Catcracker On-Line, Shutdown Brief -

A fluid catalytic cracking unit at BP Plc's (BP) Texas City, Texas, refinery was back in service Friday after experiencing a brief shutdown Thursday, according to sources familiar with operations there.

The company filed a report with the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality Thursday stating that feed was removed from the unit after an upset that resulted in flaring.

"One of the (FCC) units was shut down yesterday afternoon and it was already back on-line earlier today," a source said.
<snip>

[dave123williams]

20. Well, you haven't suggested a conspiracy, just a coincidence...

It's not strange; it's just what happened. What's strange is if there's a reason *why* it happened.

If you wanted to hurt us, you'd want to hurt us at the pump.

[Bridget Burke]

21. These things blow all the time.

This particular plant has had trouble before, as documented elsewhere. The petrochemical industry has been encouraged to "police itself" since Bush was governor, so cutting corners on safety might well be to blame.

Lots of damage to the facilites and 14 deaths so far.

[manna]

24. British Petrol

:kick:

[fob]

25. Somewhere around here a DUer posted a "thought" right up this

alley.

It was along the lines of, Let's say you own a refinery and there is equipment you could upgrade to which would give you more gas to sell but you wuold have to go through the permitting process and spend $30 million bucks to do it. Let's further say that if you simply neglect maintenance on 3 (4?) key pipe areas the existing less efficient machinery will simply take care of itself (ie blow up). Also when that happens you may get $20 million for the old machinery from your insurance company and the local/state/fed permitting process may be expedited to help you out of your "unfortunate situation".

That's from memory of reading the post so some details may be off, but it was posted yesterday or the day before.

[lonestarnot]

30. sort of like the crown victoria's the coppers drive ...cheaper to treat

charred bodies than to fix the fooking cars... bottom line dollar again...

[me b zola]

36. Updating via insurence company's dime

That was the first thing that crossed my mind. Here's the second. So from what I hear it was a BP refinery. Was BP part of the boycott that Sen. Boxer called for in response to ANWR?:shrug:

[hunter]

26. Boom! It happens all of the time.

Sorry, my tinfoil hat got melted into my skull a long time ago. (God Damned Fucking Gamma Rays, and I ate the toxic mushrooms too!)

Attack of the Mushroom People Directed by Ishiro Honda (The Godzilla Series!) After a yacht is damaged in a storm and it’s boarders stranded on a deserted island the passengers; a psychologist and his girlfriend, a wealthy businessman, a famous singer, a writer, a sailor and his skipper take refuge in a mysterious fungus-covered boat. While using the MUSHROOMS for sustenance they find in the ships journal that the mushrooms re poisonous, however some members of the shipwrecked party continue to ingest the mysterious fungi transforming them into hideous ungal monsters. One of the strangest and most horrific TOHO productions to date.

The powers that be are about to hand us some new valuation for random oil refinery workers.

Stay tuned....

[tammywammy]

27. I have family that works at refineries

And they are very dangerous. They've told me stories about fires, etc. They live in southeast Texas (Port Arthur) and everyone works in a refinery or is a lawyer that sues refineries.

All the refineries in the US are very old, and need to be updated or rebuilt.

[phish420]

49. Yes, I noticed that too

They had to have an excuse for 'why' prices are going up. This administration refuses to accept the concept of peak oil, and the fact that the world has reached it.

Edit: Oh, and I am a conspiracy nut since most conspiracy 'theories' provisde more explaination and facts than 'offical stories' do. (My website - http://www.TruthStream.Org )