Dean v. Gephardt -for anyone who still cares.

[MGKrebs]

Gep compared Dean to Gingrich.
Dean has responded (so far) by criticizing Gep on the comparison to Gingrich, not the substantive issue.

1. Is the problem Dean's failure to respond substantively?
2. Is the problem Dean's record on the issue?
3. Is the problem one of hypocriticalness because Dean has been aggressive in criticism also?

All of the above? Something else?
____________________________________________________________
Consider:

Answer 1. I suspect that Dean will respond to the substantive issue eventually, but in any case, Dean does have a current plan for health care. It is (and has been) available at www.deanforamerica.com for anyone to see if they choose to. Responding "substantively" to a criticism about a position on this from 8 years ago cannot be very substantive. What could he say? "Yes, I had that position 8 years ago" ? Would that be helpful to anybody? Would we be able to move on then?

Answer 2. Dean evidently did support an overhaul of Medicare in 1995. That is his record. He will have to live with it. If Dean's position on Medicare 8 years ago is important enough to anyone, I would hope that they would look into it a little more closely to see what it was about. I have not, because that was then and this is now. I have little hope that I could ever recreate the context well enough through research at this late date for it to have any bearing on my views now.

Answer 3. Dean has been critical of other Dem candidates, but as far as I am aware, he has been careful to generalize the criticisms to "other" candidates, not personalize them to a specific candidate. I think there is a difference. Nevertheless, I am sure that Dean will (if he has not already) point out differences between himself and other specific candidates. And this should be fine. We get into a semantical game here trying to define what is over the line and what is not. We are unlikely to ever agree on any rules that all can agree to. Any candidate (or their supporters) will feel attacked when criticized. The fact is, they have to run against each other, and they have to distinguish themselves from each other. Doing so without aggravating each other must be very difficult, and impossible to achieve without some complaints.

Conclusion:
I think Gephardt crossed the imaginary line of tact by bringing in Gingrich. If we assume he did it on pupose (not a "misstatement"), then I think we must also assume that he knew it would draw a harsh rebuttal. He could have easily pointed out the policy position without bringing up Gingrich. He chose to be confrontational. Dean already has a reputation for responding quickly and directly to criticism. This could not have surprised Gephardt, and it should not surprise anyone when it happens again.

Dean is running on the basic platform that he is the candidate who can stand up to Bush. He would have trouble convincing anyone of that capability if he doesn't even stand up for himself during the primaries. If one doesn't like that about Dean, then the Doctor is probably not the candidate for you.

[Cha]

1. Dean is the candidate for me! Thanks, though!

[Cocoa]

2. I say let them duke it out

Gep was in Cogress fighting Gingrich, and if he thiks Dean was working against him I think it's entirely reasonable to bring it up.

Let Dean defend himself if he can. All this stuff about Dean being picked on really misses the point. What are the rules, exactly, and is Dean following them himself?

[MGKrebs]

5. I agree. Dean can take care of himself.

But for what it's worth, this is what little i know about it (and this may be inaccurate because it was so long ago):

Dean was chairman of the National Governors Association. At that time, he was advocating converting Medicare to a managed care system. I don't know if he was advocating the same program the repubs were, or something similar.

In any case, I am satisfied with Dean's record on health care in Vermont. 92% of adults are covered, and 96% of kids are covered. Not bad. All while balancing the budget.

For the record;
• Vermont's general sales tax rate is 5 percent.
• There are 44 state sales tax exemptions, including food, clothing with purchase price of $110 or less, medicines and fuel and electricity used in residences.
• Sales tax also is imposed at rate of 4.36 percent on telecommunication services (but not those provided with respect to calling cards) with an exemption for first $20 of residential local exchange service.
• A 6 percent sales tax is levied on automobiles.

The Vermont state income tax ranges from 0 to 9.5 %, with a $3050 exemption.

[hedda_foil]

3. Here's the background from Gephardt's website. Look at the DATE.

This whole thing occurred within the first MONTH of Gingrich taking over ... when the debate was over how to balance the budget given the horrendous deficit inherited from Reagan-Bush. Gingrich had not yet shown himself to be the total asshole he is and Dean was trying to keep the feds from making the states bear all the burden, which was what Gingrich was trying to do. He was also asking for DEFENSE to be put on the table.

http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/plugin/template/gephardt/*/1931

Here's the full text of what Gephardt posted:

Howard Dean on Social Security
Dean called for increasing the Social Security retirement age to 70 or 68.

"I absolutely agree we need to reduce the - I mean, to increase the retirement age. There will be cuts and losses of some benefits, but I believe that Senator Packwood is on exactly the right track, and we need to deal with the Social Security retirement age..."

"The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. "It would be tough but we could do it," he said."

"We've raised it to 67. Now, can we raise it more? I am not going to rule it out… Yeah, I'll look at retirement age. I'll look at all the things that you have to look at…"

"….. I also would entertain taking the retirement age to 68. It's at 67 now. I would entertain that."


Dean said we need to cut Social Security to balance the budget.

"The Governor complains...that while federal spending restraint is clearly needed, it is unfair to place Social Security, Medicare, and defense spending off the table when it comes time for budget cuts."

"I also think that we ought to put Social Security back on the table and defense. If you take defense and Social Security off the table, what you've essentially said, 'We're not going to cut any of the controversial things at the federal level, despite our rhetoric about being courageous in a new day in the American Congress, we're just going to let the governors do all the cutting.' We'll do the cutting, but they got to do some cutting here, too."

"My problem is this. There have been a lot of statements up on Capitol Hill that say 'We're not going to touch Social Security.' 'We're going not to touch Medicare,' one statement was. 'We're not going to touch veterans' benefits.' 'We're not going to touch defense. We may add to defense.' Well, then you're going to stick all the cuts on the programs, as you well know, that go to the states..."

"We know what's going to happen and we're willing to live with that,' Dean said, referring to lower welfare funding. 'We just would like to see some similar kind of backbone by the new leadership in Congress when it comes to Medicare, when it comes to Social Security and when it comes to defense.' Without Social Security and defense on the table, Dean says, cuts in what's left of the budget would harm states..."

"Dean himself has been hawkish on the federal deficit, but his budget balancing suggestions include two programs virtually off limits for Republicans: defense spending and Social Security."
Dean on "This Week with David Brinkley," 1/29/95; Dean on CNN's Crossfire, 2/28/95; Montpelier Times-Argus, 1/30/95; Montpelier Times-Argus, 6/1/95]

[burr]

6. Gephardt said that about Dean..

thanks for the accurate, unbiased info einstein. :o

[Evanstondem]

4. Good Statement

I've read the relevant portion of hisspeech and it was clearly intentional and totally unacceptable.

[Kahuna]

7. Comparing Dean to Newt won't win Gep any votes..

That was way over the top.