Anyone wonder if Schiavo is a bone throw to the Christian Right...

[mattclearing]

...before Bush leaves them hanging on a Supreme Court nominee?

Many people have speculated that the administration is not stupid enough to actually attempt to overturn Roe v. Wade, because it creates an untenable political situation.

I think they are stupid enough to do it, personally, but I have to wonder, with all the anti-gay-rights noise and defending the lives of the brain dead, whether it's just so much political capital building for a cop-out when the time comes to pick another judge.

I'm not sure what would be ballsier...to nominate another obvious right-wing, pro-life judge, or to leave the Christian Right hanging at the bench.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I think you are right

after all, for right now at least this involves only one person and her family, not whole huge blocks of voters, such as people who are pro-choice. It is making a lot of noise but isn't expending too much political capital-just the sort of thing Bushco likes to distort and exploit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Here's My Two Cents...

I just think it's profoundly sad...


When Terri Schiavo's mom said Terri was her life I believed her because I know that's how my mom feels about me...


It is just so sad.....


Sad for Terri, sad for her family, sad it's become a political football...

[Gman]

3. If Terri Schiavo was homeless and on the streets

they wouldn't give a shit about her.

[Bunny]

5. You are right, and yes, this is a bone to the fundy nutjobs.

It's also a very convenient way to distract attention from Delay's current ethics problems.

Nevertheless, it has now transcended just Terri. The US Congress is about to make an unprecedented invasion into the personal lives of every American citizen. In their zeal to appease the religious nuts, do they even realize the damage they are doing? I really doubt it.

These are very troubling times.

[mattclearing]

7. Yeah, the legal implications of this are kind of mind-boggling.

While I have been tempted to dismiss it as so much noise about what appears to be a less than extraordinary situation, the legal issues that have found precedent now effectively make it a bigger deal than it should have been.

Does this mean that the rules of minority are now bent to give parents post-adolescent rights over their children?

I have a feeling most people with parents will have a problem with that.

[Bunny]

10. Or give parents more rights over their adult children than the

children's own spouse? Sanctity of marriage, my ass.

[mattclearing]

33. The only sanctity Republicans are concerned with...

...is the sanctimonious sound of their own blather.

[snippy]

6. Very true. Let's see if any of the coat hanger republicans oppose Bush's

proposed Medicaid cuts.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. That's The Point...

She's fortunate to have a mom and dad who really love her...


The sad thing about homeless people is they have burned all their bridges or have had their bridges burned for them....


As someone who lost his dad and three of four of his grandparents before his fifteenth birthday this whole saga touches me...

I don't have the answer....


I don't see this in ideological terms....

[mattclearing]

14. Yeah, the correct answer is kinda beyond human capacity for reason.

Hence the controversy.

Personally, I'd be a lot more comfortable with the state out of it altogether.

Our legal system dictates that her husband should be able to make the decision.

Of course, our legal system dictated that Al Gore should be in the White House, too, until people decided to change it on a reactionary whim.

In fact, most of the worst things that have happened to the American government are the result of reactionary politicians making policy based on seemingly fleeting issues which result in big problems later on.

The Patriot Act is a big example...gives police more leeway to fight terrorists, the enemy du jour, but also invalidates a significant portion of the bill of rights (oops).

God only knows what this will end up meaning for incapacitated people and spousal rights.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. I Would Just Defer...

I couldn't make the decision...


It's analogous to being "death penalty" qualified...

It is within the discretion of the judge and attorneys to remove from cases that qualify for the death penalty folks who oppose it in all cases...


I have been unable to resolve the tension in my own mind between the fact that all life is precious and the fact that some folks have committed such heinous crimes that they deserve to forfeit their own lives....

Since I can't resolve that tension in my mind I will pass on the opportunity to judge...

To me the "culture of life" is more than a taking point... It's hard for me to resolve my feelings about the death penalty, abortion, and mercy killing ....

[mattclearing]

22. Give yourself some credit...

At least you're intellectually honest. A lot of people ignore the very real cognitive dissonance between the three issues.

I think the key is to realize that the issues themselves revolve around the state's role and the Constitution, not life.

Once you think of it in those terms, it becomes a bit clearer:

The state should avoid telling a woman what to do with her body.

The state should avoid telling a husband what to do about his incapacitated wife.

The state should avoid cruel and unusual punishment, and it doesn't get much more cruel or unusual than death.

Life is secondary to the government's role in it. And I don't see very many pro-lifers at the anti-war protests, so they aren't exactly ideologically consistent either.

They seem to want government to act in lieu of God.

I'm personally happy to let God figure it out, and keep the government on the sidelines.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. It's The Finality Of The Death Penalty, Abortion, And Mercy Killing...

Very few issues have that finality...



We could get in a long theological discussion...

It's the finality of death which led man to "create" God to provide a framework for understanding death's finality but this discussion makes me uncomfortable because I am a believer....

So I'll just defer to what I heard once from a Baptist minister"you want intellect forget Jesus"... He had a secular education... He went to Florida State University on an athletic scholarship.. He didn't mean that Christians should be stupid or purposefeully ignorant but certain beliefs rest on faith which is beyond the realm of human understanding...

[mattclearing]

39. I'm a believer for the most part too.

Though times like these try my faith.

Who was it that said, "I trust God, but not the people who claim to work for Him?"

That's my feeling on this.

A similar statement could be made for the US. I trust the U.S., but I don't trust the people who claim to work for it.

[ultraist]

35. I don't think it's "analgous to the death penalty"

This is a matter of ending medical treatments after 15 years of no improvement. It is not like strapping a healthy person in an electric chair.

Adults should not be forced to accept medical treatments or decisions that the State deems. That is simply wrong. That's why they outlawed state required sterlizations decades ago and why we have the Roe ruling.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I Didn't Mean To Imply It Was...

However the death penalty, abortion, and mercy killing are all irreversible and I struggle in my mind if and when any any of those procedures are justified... I'd also add war...

[mattclearing]

9. So true.

I'm actually in the neighborhood with Bush (he's a shitty neighbor), and let's just say I've never seen the motorcade slow down to help out at McPherson Square, which has a homeless population somewhere near thirty people, many of whom yell and fight all night.

[oneold1-4u]

13. Oddities

This one item(Terri) just happened to be in the right place at the right time to use it to the fullest. One more nasty dirty political agenda!
For anyone to use another's life or death to promote their program when it has nothing to do with the well being of anyone is, so far, the lowest this "stealth regime" has dropped to. I wouldn't allow this bunch under the seat in my outhouse, they stink so bad.
There are literally thousands in this nation on any given day who could use a tiny bit of all this money and help to remain alive long enough to heal. Actually many returning soldiers maimed for life don't, and never will receive, that much concern or caring!
Their priorities are so vividly obscene, that a blind person could see better than their ignorant followers!

[Jon8503]

4. You Are Probably Right; They have a reason for getting

involved with this and it is not for Terri Schivavo's benefit but for
the republicans.

[Jon8503]

41. Hypocrisy Just Isn't a Strong Enough Word Any More

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION
by Carolyn Kay, MakeThemAccountable.com

Gotta provide that red meat for the knuckle draggers. What a godsend for Tom DeLay, considering his ethical problems.

ABC News

DeLay Says He's Not Giving Up Schiavo Fight
Republicans Seek to Take Schiavo Battle to Supreme Court; Husband Calls It a 'Mockery'

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/03/con05096.html

[sallyseven]

44. The stupid morons even sent out

a memo talking about the next elections and how this will help.

[Jo March]

11. This is most definately a "bone"

Where have these people been? It's not as if Schiavo just now went into this vegetative state. She's been in it for years. They are seizing on the press that the case is getting to show up, earn some points with the religious right and get some votes.

It's shameful.

[snippy]

12. Republicans have sent a memo on using this case for political purposes.

GOP memo says issue offers political rewards

By The Washington Post

WASHINGTON — Republican leaders believe their attention to the Terri Schiavo issue could pay dividends with Christian conservatives whose support they covet in the 2006 midterm elections, according to a GOP memo intended to be seen only by senators.

The one-page memo, distributed to Republican senators by party leaders, called the debate over Schiavo legislation "a great political issue" that would appeal to the party's base, or core, supporters. The memo singled out Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., who is up for re-election next year.

"This is an important moral issue, and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," said the memo, reported by ABC News and later given to The Washington Post. "This is a great political issue, because Senator Nelson of Florida has already refused to become a co-sponsor and this is a tough issue for Democrats."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002213728_memo20.html (emphasis added).

[mattclearing]

16. The question becomes: How long before our people figure out the frame?

"The Republicans are attempting to use this tragedy for political grandstanding. The courts should be able to resolve this for the family if they cannot come to an agreement."

That took me about a minute. I wonder how long it will take to hear it from one of our senators.

[wryter2000]

49. Should this post have its own thread?

I know there have been complaints about the number of T. Schaivo threads, but this seems important enough that people should see it.

[underpants]

15. Quite the opposite-the Repubs open their own can of whoopass

From Friday-The fundies are here to collect.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3295309

[mattclearing]

17. Yeah, because they still believe they delivered the White House.

See the 2004 Election forum for why they are misguided in their estimation of their leverage.

On edit...that person won't be on Hannity again. There are blips and mishaps here and there, but when you live in a controlled state, the controlled message is what tends to get sent out.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[underpants]

20. I know but they are believing the hype about themselves

and it is time to collect. I love it.

[undergroundpanther]

23. Two things bother me

If it's a bone for fundies..fundies have always wanted to control OTHER PEOPLES kids.Force secular kids in a secular school to be taught creationism,banning sex ed..If the court can interfere with a personal family decision,than how much can fundies wedge their agenda into families everywhere.

The fundies will not rest even until they have converted and control the world.These people know no ends for their domination of children women families.They will not live and let live,and they will not respect other people lives and they will not stop invading peoples lives until they get their damn culture war and the persecution fantasies they long for,Fundies are itching for a crusade and the government is sanctioning their "holy war" kill the heathen through cases like Shiavos...The sick fucks..

[mattclearing]

27. Yeah, they are pushy missionaries by nature.

The idea that their God is not everyone else's God never occurs to them. That is a secular idea.

Their faith, by design, requires them to go out and convert us all. They won't stop.

[ultraist]

37. They are forever trying to have their religious beliefs legislated

I agree! Many of their beliefs revolve around controlling and oppressing women and children.

This situation is so contradictory to Chrisitianity in that forcing someone to recieve more medical treatments to keep them alive is interferring with "God's will."

I don't understand how they got that Texas bill passed where the State can pull the plug against the family's wishes and I will be surprised if they get this Terri bill passed. Both are an abuse of State power. The State has no right to interfere with our personal medical decisions.

[underpants]

21. I'll add---"How could they let this person starve to death"

I heard that this morning on Fox news-Family Research council pinhead actually said that.....guess what buddy it happens everyday and there are people your phony Christian a** couldn't care less about and it slowly happens to them every freakin' day.

[mattclearing]

25. Yeah, no shit.

They let people starve by voting for President Bush's poverty state. What a bunch of bullshit.

[Junkdrawer]

19. Yep. Been saying so for a while...

Gotta throw the Fundies a bone from time-to-time....

It's real important that they:

-> think this admin actually gives a shit about them

-> think that we liberals would storm the gates if it weren't for old Dubya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1325750&mesg_id=1326384

and...


I Think Most Repuke Pols could give a sh*t about the 10 Commandments..

And they could give a sh*t about stopping abortions

and Gay Rights, and a whole range of "Values Issues".

How do I know?

Because they've had Congress for over 10 years, the Presidency for over four and the Senate for over two.

When it came to invading other countries for Oil, or massive Tax Cuts for the Rich, they got that done ASAP. In short, when they actually care, poof and it's done. But these Values Issues? Think about it --- if they actually DID anything but make noise, they'd demotivate their "grass roots" and mobilize ours.

So I'd expect plenty of noise. But I'd be very surprised if they actually DID anything.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1633862

[mattclearing]

29. Exactly.

And the funny thing is that the morals people think they delivered the election.

Bush doesn't owe them shit, and he knows it.

[Frances]

24. I read that Terry Schiavo

had an eating disorder.

One cause of eating disorders may be that the person feels a lack of control in his/her life.

If ever a child had controlling parents, Terry did.

[mattclearing]

31. That's the saddest thing about this.

I don't know about her, but my parents are nowhere on the list of people I would want making my decisions for me ever.

The faux irony of someone whose parents likely contributed to her refusal to eat being force-fed by her parents is amazing.

[Frances]

45. Maybe it's because the parents couldn't control her eating

while she was alive that they are so focused on controlling her food now.

When I see how hard it is for the parents to see their daughter as she really is now, then I must assume that they didn't see who she really was when she was alive.

To me, the parents see this situation as about themselves, not about their daughter.

[peekaloo]

26. Yes. Plus laying groundwork for mid terms.

How appropriate that the poster child for the Repukes will be a brain dead individual.

[mattclearing]

28. Good one. n/t

[wolfgirl]

30. What happens if the Federal courts

refuse to hear the case...even after the idiots pass their law & Bush signs?

Either way Bush can declare a victory...Fed Court hears case & rules against the nuts - therefore strengthing Bush's argument that judges are out of control/out of touch.

Fed court refuses to hear arguments, same result.

Either way Bush & Co get the fundies support for whatever he wants and Terri, her husband & her parents all lose...

[snippy]

38. Bush and the rest of the republicans will continue with their attempts to

incite people to violence against judges. Republicans have created a dangererous climate for judges. The demonizing of judges by Bush and other republicans is going to have an effect on some people who are dangerously unbalanced such as Tim McVeigh, Ann Coulter, and Tom DeLay. Democrats should introduce some bills in Congress to increase security for judges and their families to protect against the increased risks created by those who are demonizing judges.

[teryang]

32. Our society is deteriorating before our eyes

The massive reallocation of resources from social policy goals to defense contractors and police purposes is having its inevitable impact.

The Terry Schiavo story is a classic sleight of hand by fascists feigning compassion while their policies are literally destroying the livelihoods of thousands of families and individual on a daily basis.

So called bankruptcy reform and the Patriot Act were implemented for a reason. This is much worse to come. There will be social unrest. It is just a matter of time.

[mattclearing]

36. This reminds me of the late 80's on crack and steroids.

Some things you just can't plan for. I don't know what it is, but something is going to bite these people in the ass.

A domestic terrorism incident (from domestic terrorists, christian gun nuts, at that), race riots, natural disaster, China and Russia start telling us how it's going to be; something will happen and people will wake up.

Whether or not there's a country left to fix at that point remains to be seen.

But no matter how hard one tries, one cannot engineer the future completely.

[Toots]

42. It is a bone to throw to the HMOs and Health Industry in general

I bet if this life support were free they would not be so quick to keep someone on it. It is because of the tremendous amount of money the hospital or HMO receives while keeping someone alive way beyond their time. They will drain the insurance companies or the person's estate til there is nothing left and then say they must end the service because it is too expensive to give away free. It is all abouit money. The Republicans never do anything unless money is involved....

[Shanty Oilish]

43. The Bushes don't care about Terri Schiavo

As I wrote elsewhere a few days ago...
A helpless, disabled woman who is not dying of any natural cause, has been ordered to be starved to death, by order of a Republican judge widely admired by his peers.
You don't have a problem with that?
You should.
Jeb Bush and his brother are making noises against this execution, as their conservative base expect them to, but they're not doing anything to stop it. Why is that? They certainly have the power, the ability and the dishonesty to sabotage that judge's entire career, to twist his arm or to discredit him. They don't have to follow the law.
Do you see a dead girl in the judge's bed, or a live boy? I don't. What's keeping the Bush boys from making their followers happy?
These are the people who can derail a general election. You think they can't get around George Greer?


They don't WANT Terri Schiavo to live. No more than that well-respected REPUKE judge wants her to live. Bush may sign the bill, but he's hoping the issue will be moot before then (she'll be dead) or that the Supreme Court will decide it the other way. As in fact they already have, several times, in favor of upholding that judge.

[Mr_Spock]

46. I just think it's a giant BONE THROW!

:D

[zippy890]

47. Yes, absolutely

and the fundies will be placated

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

48. Naaah. Politicians never pose, they "serve the public good".

And, Nigerian guys are just trying to help you get rich.