If Terri Shiavo could be euthanized rather than dehydrated to death

[Walt Starr]

Poll question: If Terri Shiavo could be euthanized rather than dehydrated to death

Which way would you prefer she be let go?

[Walt Starr]

1. Kick to get more votes

[babsbunny]

3. Don't worry

When my Mom was dying of cancer, we kept her mouth moist, and kept her full of morphine, and something. She didn't suffer.

[Indiana_Dem]

2. I'm a nurse and the best way I've seen people go is

to naturally dehydrate (meaning don't fill them full of IV fluids so they don't drown to death from being overhydrated when their kidneys are shutting down anyway) and to give them an IV morphine drip and titrating it to make them comfortable. But I don't believe in giving an overdose on purpose.

In the same breath, I dont believe in feeding tubes that would prolong my life as a vegetable who's dependent on others, either. But that's just my own preference from seeing others die in different ways. What do I know?

[Walt Starr]

10. I'd rather go quickly

stick a needle in my arm and get it over with.

I've made my wishes known in that respect and am including an appropriate clause in my living will.

[Indiana_Dem]

11. That's great for you that you have it in writing!

Didn't Teri have any of this in writing? Much of this wouldn't be an issue if she would have had an advanced directive. Every person under the sun should have a written legal advanced directive and that is what should be honored. That's what I believe in. I have my own, too.

[Walt Starr]

13. Not yet, working on it

and most people in this countrydon't have a living will.

[Indiana_Dem]

29. Yes I'm quite well aware of that.

And that is why there are messes like Teri's all over the place.

[madeline_con]

53. As a caregiver

I witnessed the slow death of a man who was admitted to the hospital and given morphine. The dose was increased periodically until he died. He was not particularly unhealthy, just a guy in his 90s with no family nearby.

At one point, he sat up in the bed and said, "I'm an old man," as if he were working out the issue and trying to accept the fact that he'd become a burden to his daughters who'd come to initiate his execution from out of state.

[cynatnite]

54. I prefer the same as well

I'm not comfortable with an overdose either. It's a slippery slope that I think we should be careful of when it comes to euthanasia.

[sandnsea]

60. Oregon Euthanasia

About 200 in 7 years. Miniscule number of people actually do this, most are cancer patients. Most get a liquid and are dead within 5 minutes, 20 at the most. Most died at home. A patient must be alert and coherent to make the decision, and consult with two doctors.

It's really worked okay, I had alot of reservations about it myself.

[babylonsister]

61. Hey, I_D, thanks for being a nurse!

My mom got to die at home vs. a hospital after a long illness. Hospice helped us tremendously, and our main contact was a (retired?) nurse. But she was a great older woman who comforted us all.

[uppityperson]

4. Funny choices, kick

baby jesus indeed

[mondo joe]

5. You need another option: "Let her next of kin decide"

I know what I'd choose for myself. (I'd take the slow route.)

I know what I'd choose for my spouse.

I don't know Terri so I don't feel I can say which she'd prefer.

[RevCheesehead]

6. why did you add "baby Jesus?"

If your poll is a serious one (and I am presuming it is), couldn't you word it in a less-than-provocative manner? I, for one, would appreciate it.

Just for the record, I voted for the second option.

[LittleClarkie]

8. Provocative, hell

I'd appreciate it if this situation didn't become a stand up routine for people. It's not damned funny. The quips are really getting to me. What if it were someone in YOUR family.

As a Christian Democrat, I also don't appreciate the insinuation that religion is only on one side of this issue. You could at least add the baby Jesus to the other side of the coin if you insist on enjoying yourself with this issue.

Someone of faith could just as easily want nature to take its course rather than letting people play God. Whatever is most humane in the situation really.

[ldf]

7. this is exactly the issue we should be addressing

how to allow her to end this with dignity.

i voted for the morphine.

as i have posted in another thread, we treat our pets better than we treat our family. this is done all the time for our beloved furry friends, and they can be every bit as much a part of the family as the human members.

they at least give us unconditional love. family members find it very hard to do that.

and we think nothing of allowing our pet's life to end without having to go through days of unending pain, or being just a shell of a body.

the hypocrisy there is just mind boggling.

[FloridaPat]

9. Someone mentioned that when Jackie Kennedy was on her death bed,

the relatives are called and the doctors of the rich make sure things go according to schedule once everyone is available.Interesting concept to think that the rich arrive and leave on time (cesarian section and extra morphene).

[madeline_con]

12. Maybe the crux for some

of us is not that she's being 'let go', but the method that's being used. It just seems inhumane, regardless of arguments concerning her awareness, can she feel pain, etc.

I was told by a friend that she's being given sedatives and pain medication. Can anyone here confirm this?

Now, does this mean they're not sure if she can feel pain, that they know she CAN feel pain, or it's just a warm fuzzy thing to reassure the family.

IF shes' getting the meds anyway, why not crank up the dose and get this horrific ordeal over with ASAP?

Any thoughts, people?

[mondo joe]

14. There are a lot of misconceptions about the dehydration process

It happens every day in hospice care across the country.

It is a peaceful process and morphine is administered as a precaution.

If it were ME I'd choose to go that way rather than a lethal injection. I wouldn't impose that choice on others - but I think it's important to recignize that it is a legitimate choice.

[madeline_con]

39. This is so confusing

to me, because I realize her brain is pretty much gone, but it seems like a small thing to give her some Ensure 3 times a day and some water.

If she doesn't know what's happening, what difference does it make, anyway?

[Horse with no Name]

43. Because her wish was not to live like this

according to her legal next of kin--her husband.
It is legally his decision and his decision only.
The rest is just a freak show for the morbidly curious.

[mondo joe]

52. The difference is that it's not what she wanted. And it troubles me

to read you say What difference does it make? because it's not what I want either - and I don't like to think my choice will be opposed when I'm most vulnerable.

[Lars39]

16. Her cerebral cortex is gone. She can't feel pain.

If they are giving her pain medication it is for the family.

The state of FL doesn't allow any other method of 'letting her go'.

[madeline_con]

44. This is a mess

but I am convinced that she's not capable of a whole lot of higher reasoning, but I'm still torn about the issue of her being a human.

IMO, her Mom sees her as her baby, and her husband as his ball and chain.

[Yupster]

66. I'm with you Madeline

I'm just not comfortable with starving people to death.

I had to have my dog killed a few months ago, and it was so quick and so peaceful, and so dignified. I pet her while they gave her a shot and before the full amount of shot was in her, she was dead. No deep breathing, no sounds, just like turning a switch off. I was glad I stayed to participate in it.

I can't believe that we would treat this woman worse than my dog. None of us would ever starve a dog to death.

I would certainly not want to live like she's living, but my god, talk about cruel punishment, standing with food and watching her starve to death? That just seems so inhuman.

[IndianaGreen]

15. Too bad this issue is being exploited by the politicians

We should respect Terri Shiavo's family wishes, and they alone should decide.

BTW, her family (the Schindlers) want her to live. Her dad, mom, brothers and sisters very much want Terri to live.

That scum bucket Terri has for a husband, the Joe Kevorkian whannabee with the girlfriend and children, Michael Schiavo is trying to do under the cover of law what Scott Peterson did against the law.

[Walt Starr]

20. I USED to respect you

I can honestly say, I have lost every bit of that after this post.

[IndianaGreen]

26. I suggest that you look at this outside the realm of politics

which is hard to do when you have scumbags like DeLay trying to score brownie points with the likes of Randall Terry.

There is no material evidence to support Michael Schiavo's claim that Terri, who is not his personal property, wanted the tubes taken out. Michael Schiavo is not some sort of hero, and his crocodile tears on TV are more than trumped by the anguish of the Schindlers.

When it comes to abortion we have always held that the decision is the mothers. Where is the woman's movement on the Schiavo case? Where are the feminists now that a man wants to decide whether his wife, who is still living without the assistance of mechanical devices, should die against the wishes of her family. Women are not the property of men when they marry!

Now, if you want to make the case that the federal government has no business sticking its head into a state matter, then that's a different issue altogether, but my original post was not based on politics or on the separation of powers, but on the human components of this story.

Michael Schiavo is not that much different from Scott Peterson!

[HamstersFromHell]

37. And if it were Michael as Mr. Potato Head and Terri advocating...

his removal from support, who would you side with then?

As I see it, it's *never* been about some ownership. It's about a man who is her legal guardian who wants his brain dead wife laid to rest. The *exact* same would apply if their positions were reversed. That is nothing more than the fact of law.

Alas, it's about about two idiot parents who can't let go no matter what.

Comparing this to abortion is like, well, comparing apples to vegetables.

[mondo joe]

45. Multiple witnesses confirm Terri stating her wishes

To say nothing of the fact that SHE CHOSE MICHAEL to be her voice when she has none of her own.

Don't be so hot to deny her choice and infantilize her into the property of her ghoulish parents.

[Walt Starr]

55. Your rhetoric is preposterous

Michael Schiavo is not that much different from Scott Peterson!

ABSURD!

Marriage is a bond between two people and a committment where you give over the power to speak for you when you are unable to the person you marry.

As I said, I have lost that esteem which I once held for you.

[bettyellen]

25. her husband is the family..... they were planing on having kids...

and if that would have happened, no parents would think about interfering in their family's business. it's disgusting to me that she would have to reproduce to "prove" her marriage and keep the fundies and govt the fuck out of it. but stay out of it they would. this is so fucking patriarchal it makes me ill. there's a whole bunch of people who are judging that marriage and they all ought to be ashamed of themselves.

[IndianaGreen]

28. Her husband has another family, a girlfriend and kids

Her husband wants sole power of life and death over Terri Schiavo, despite the wishes of Terri's father, mother, and siblings. Blood is thicker than water!

[mondo joe]

30. Terri granted Michael the right of next of kin. Not her parents.

It may shock you but some people don't agree with their parents on a range of issues.

Terri granted authority to speak on her behalf to one person - Muchael Schiavo.

[IndianaGreen]

38. There is no Living Will, and no Power of Attorney

granting Michael Schiavo power of life and death over her. It may surprise you, but some of us leftists don't believe that a woman is a piece of property whose tittle passes from father to husband when she marries (the cultural reason why women change their names when they marry).

[HamstersFromHell]

41. This has NOTHING to do with so-called "ownership"

Legally speaking, if Mike was in the bed and Terri had to make that decision, it would be 100% her right to do so as legal guardian. Not a thing changes but the sexes of the two sides.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Michael Schiavo is a liar!

And he is not the sort of character we should rally around.

[cynatnite]

50. Back it up!

Where has he lied? Prove it.

[mondo joe]

51. Prove it.

Please.

[Walt Starr]

56. I beg to differ with you. Nineteen differnet judges disagree with you

Furthermore, you have nothing more than emotional rhetoric to back up your misguided assertion!

[HamstersFromHell]

57. Yes, he's sooooooo dishonest...

he's turned down a reported 10 million dollars to just walk away?

Terri's parents tried to position him into a spot where they thought they could challenge his sole authority...they told him to get on with his life and he took it for what he assumed it was, their blessing.

Now it seems to me that this man is one who did just as he was told, and decided to raise a family (one he originally wanted with Terri)...none of the characters in this comic book are getting any younger, and he knows he'll be a better father now than to wait who knows how many more years while Terri's parents wait for their own personal miracle.

The only catch is he so loved his wife that he wants to see her put to rest as she should have been many years ago, and he refuses to give into her brain dead parents who've drank just a bit too much of the Kool Aid they've been offered by the nutjob fundies who keep promising them the only reason Terri's not running around the room singing "God Bless America" is they haven't prayed hard enough.

I see it as he's not going to feel he's done her right until she's given a proper burial. Once that's done, he then can have his closure. Who is anyone to deny him that? Seems if money won't change his mind, then he must be doing it out a sense of what's the right thing to do?

[IndianaGreen]

59. Why didn't he marry his girlfriend?

Why did he choose to remain married to Terri?

Why does he remind me of Scott Peterson every time I see him on TV?

What is it about this man that gets my intuition in such an uproar?

[mondo joe]

62. You're in an uproar because you took the lies the Schindler ghouls fed you

You've posted several times now slander that has been disproven repeatedly.

But since you believe it anyway, you think he's a villain.

[HamstersFromHell]

64. He didn't marry his girlfriend

because he's still married to Terri.

He remains in a sense of having made his vow to Terri "till death do us part". Obviously he's not going to have a family with Terri, so he has to move on in that respect. Legally speaking, Terri "abandoned" him through her terminal incapactation (we'll not even start a debate if said terminal incapacitation was self-inflicted or not). He's done as he was told to do by Terri's parents (he's not getting any younger and wants a family and kids), and now he harassed for doing exactly what they told him to do. The only thing he did "wrong" was to not let them "take ownership" of her animated corpse for thier own idiotic purposes. He remains true to his vow to his wife. Once she's dead and buried (at last!), maybe he will marry the other woman and finish getting on with his life.

He reminds you of Peterson because that's how you choose to view him.


And maybe it's time to have the intuition in the shop for a checkup? :)

[IndianaGreen]

65. Isn't that a contradiction?

He remains in a sense of having made his vow to Terri "till death do us part".

Isn't that a contradiction?

Yet he violates Church teaching in wanting to starve to death someone that is not on life support?

Won't you even admit that Michael Schiavo's conduct has been peculiar to say the least?

[mondo joe]

68. Nope. I'd want my spouse to do exactly the same thing

if I were in Terri's position.

I'd want him to fulfill his final obligation to me, but I'd also want him to find love and happiness in his life without me.

[HamstersFromHell]

70. No contradiction at all

He loves Terri, always has, always will, yet he still knows he must go on with his life. And his life would have likely already been there if not for the pig headedness of her parents. She's about as dead as dead gets minus the heart stopping. The part that was terri that he loved is already ded...he's trying for closure by giving rites to the container.

He's not violated a thing: Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and by Florida law, her feeding tube is life support. She won't "starve", she'll dehydrate and die peacefully.

If peculiar is trying to get on with your life at the same time trying to maintain the honor and dignity of your all but deceased wife in the midst of a three ring circus he didn't ask for, I'm all for peculiar.

[cynatnite]

48. Do you think marriage is an act of legalized rape, too?

You can't judge all marriages by your narrow-minded view. Fact of the matter is you have no idea what made up their marriage or how they viewed it.

Another fact that you choose to ingore: This thing has been litigated for years and each and every single time the courts have found for Michael. They have found that she indeed voiced her desire NOT to be kept alive in this manner.

I grant my husband the right to speak for me if I am incapacitated not just because I say it, but also because he is my husband. He is my next of kin. Not all women are treated as luggage as you imply.

I'm even more disgusted that the spouse's right to fulfill the wishes of their loved one is ignored. It's easy to sit back and judge a man who has turned down millions of dollars. Those people who offered that money want to BUY his wife. They see her as property by offering money for her and you are going to accuse him of that same thing because he made a commitment to his wife to see her wishes fulfilled.

As to his girlfriend and children: That's no more our business than this is.

Michael Schaivo spent years trying to rehabilitate his wife even though doctors told him she was a vegetable. He wanted her to have every single option to live a decent life. He came to terms with reality.

Your anger should be directed at a government who chooses to ignore powers of separation, state rights, and individual rights.

[mondo joe]

49. The marriage contract confers power as guardian in instances

such as this.

And that doesn't make her his property - it makes them partners.

As someone who wants gay couples to have the same same spousal rights as hetero couples, I'm just left rolling my eyes at your comments.

[bettyellen]

34. get it in writing when you get married, because that ain't the law. .....

if she had the kids that she was planning on having with michael, her parents would be third in line as next of kin.
her husband is still her husband, and acting as such.
but, no one's going to force you to cut your apron strings. but dude, get it in writing if your married, and tell your spouse. and jeeze, tell them carefully! LOL.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Get it in writing, indeed! And get a pre-nupt while you are at it!

If there is anything to be learned from the Schiavo case, is that we should not let the courts or the politicians interfere in how we choose to live and die.

[bettyellen]

42. but don't even try to have your own kids when you tell your spouse

that you trust your own parents more than them. heck, why not try to give half your parental rights to your parents too! LOL.

[Horse with no Name]

47. Terri left the marriage first

through her debilitation. The fact that he followed suit is irrelevant as estrangement is not divorce and never will be unless they want to pass legislation that all it takes to sever legal ties is to take up residence with someone else. I don't think that will be happening.
Michael Schiavo is her legal next of kin.
My suggestion to anyone who doesn't like this type of "ownership" is to never get married so you can allow your mommy and daddy to retain ownership of you for the rest of your life, but the ones that do choose a spouse indeed hand over their lives to them in case they become incapacitated. Choose wisely.

[uppityperson]

58. everybody wants to live, but she is mostly dead, wants to be all dead

She wanted to be let die if she got in this situation. Even though some family want her to live, be healthy, be conversant and loving as she used to be, it will never happen. Her wishes should get consideration than her family's.

[Cuban_Liberal]

17. Most. Tasteless. Thread. Ever.

x(

[Walt Starr]

18. Click that little X then

Some of us want this thing over. LEt the animated corpse die already.

Personally, I'd rather have a needle stuck in my arm to allow my family a bit of comfort (because having no cerebral cortex means feeling no pain so the manner of the death means nothing in this case).

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. If I choose to, I will.

I don't need your guidance, Walt.

[Walt Starr]

21. I consider this the most tasteful Shiavo thread on DU today

I don't need your critique.

[HamstersFromHell]

22. Good poll Walt!

Personally, I'm going for the most tasteless thread in my little rant I posted a while ago. However, it's not to offend, but to maybe open a few eyes about how fucking absurd this whole mess is.

[Walt Starr]

23. Loved your rant!

Very to the point! Too bad you have to smack some people upside the head from time to time around here!

[Cuban_Liberal]

24. Yee fuckin' hah!

Have at it.

:eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

27. I beg to differ

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. Feel free. n/t

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. There's alot to learn from Walt

especially about the absurdity of this whole Schiavo case.

[Cuban_Liberal]

71. That assumes that one agrees that it's absurd, of course.

Not everyone does.

[LisaL]

32. If she must die, clearly, an overdose of morphine is the way to go.

It's fast.

[mondo joe]

36. For some people. It's not what I'd choose for myself.

I'd prefer to go out naturally, provided there was a decent supply of morphine in the event of discomfort.

[lavenderdiva]

35. how deja vu of you to have this for me to read this evening...

I was in the car this afternoon, and my husband and I were discussing this very thing, with him ranting about how far gone the Repubs were on this issue. I said to him that the only way that woman would get some peace to die, would be to inject her with a lot of morphine, and let her go. I just get infuriated every time I think of what the Republican machine is doing to this woman and her husband.

[Chicago Democrat]

63. Pagan Which gods are your favourite?

Me I like Bacchus

[Dookus]

67. of course she should be euthanized

but it's the same fucknuts who are fighting her now that prevented THAT from being legal.

[DoNotRefill]

69. Morphine all the way....

don't drag it out, do it quick.