The USA is similar to the Aztecs in a BAD way...

[Ripley]

From an article in a recent "Smithsonian"...

snip>>

The Aztecs were governed by a huey tlatoani, or supreme ruler, who was considered semidivine. Succession to the throne, though not strictly hereditary, tended to remain within the ruling family. Each ruler was selected from among a military council of four controlled by the ruling house.

Aztec society was divided into two distinct social classes: the nobility and the commoners. Nobles, who composed only about 5 percent of the total Aztec population, controlled land, labor and tribute. Most lived in palatial dwellings, wore fine cotton clothing, practiced polygamy, held public office, were exempt from manual labor and were allowed to accumulate and display wealth.

Commoners, who tended to live in simple huts of sun-dried brick and dressed in rough clothing, were required to be monogamous and were prohibited from displaying wealth.

The nobility and the priesthood were at the top of the social order.

Warriors also enjoyed enormous prestige.

snip>>

SOUND FAMILIAR?

It's too bad these "human" characteristics of greed and power are omni-time, omni-culture, omni-country and endless. It's also too bad that the Art, Architecture, Technology and even women's rights of this culture has been forgotten.

(snip<Divorce, we are told, was legal, notably on the grounds of spousal abuse, and mothers could receive custody of their children. Women in childbirth were regarded as warriors, and those who died giving birth received honors due a warrior.>snip)

Blood and flowers together made the Aztecs seem bizarre when I studied the culture years ago. But now, after Abu Ghraib and the complete MSM shut-down of the coverage of the Iraq War, along with the News disappearing into courtroom and autopsy room analysis, I don't believe we are that far away from ...

the acceptance of blood and flowers in our society.

[skylarmae]

1. brutally well put n/t

[priller]

2. The Bush regime is retrograde in many ways.

It's funny, I've been reading histories of pre-Columbian Mexico myself recently, after I went on a trip visiting archeological sites in Oaxaca. Like you, I was struck by how rulers over and over again -- it seems not to matter which culture -- try to legitimize their rule by claiming some kind of divine choosing or favor. That had been the norm for thousands of years unti the US came along and made an issue of saying the opposite.

It's a shame to see where our nation is heading, and disheartening to see so many decent people ushering its downfall by their misguided rush to bring "religion" back in to politics.

[Ripley]

4. Retrograde.

I just liked typing that word.

Disheartening is another word you used. I wonder why there are so many "decent people ushering its downfall"?????

[priller]

11. Like I said, they're misguided.

And I mean that literally, they're being guided in the wrong direction. The people at the top, Rove and Bush himself, and their religious enablers like Dobson and Robertson and Fallwell and the rest, are cynical manipulators. They're using religion as a way to gain power and wealth, just like rulers have done through the ages. And well-meaning people are fooled by them because when Bush invokes religion then all critical thinking turns off and they simply "believe" in him.

I have several good friends who are otherwise intelligent but just turn into mush whenever they hear Bush. "He's a good Christian man..." Bleah!

I sometimes wonder if anyone listened in Civics class.

[Ripley]

12. How will it end?

And when?

What is it they really want? Our souls?

I wish upon a star, no wait, a planet...Jupiter. I wish upon a planet that these people will stop their murderous hateful ways and simply evaporate.

Oh Civics...is it even taught today?

[SpiralHawk]

3. But on the Bright Side...there was lots of chocolate then

and now Big BushCo is hinting that choco-rations may be increased 2 mg. per saved-citizen unit sometime early in 2006. So we have hope.

And we have the security of always knowing that Big BushCo loves us.



PS - check out the Jaguar Knights, the Eagle Knights and the legends of El Tule. Fascinating Americana.

[forgethell]

5. At least, however,

cannibalism is not practiced as part of the state religion as it was among the Aztecs. Something to think about.

[Ripley]

6. Yes, the Blood.

Americans don't condone Cannibalism.

You seem to be one who focuses on one particular facet of an analogy.

What would you like to discuss about my original post?

[forgethell]

9. OK, then

We have a democratic republic, not a supreme ruler.

We have far more than two social classes and a lot of mobility between all of them.

Anybody is legally entitled to accumulate wealth, or lose it.

In short, I think the analogy is highly erroneous and a product of extremely sloppy thinking and vast amounts of self-righteous vanity and emotionalism.

As for their art, well it is very impressive, no doubt of that, but I, personally, do not care for the theme of most of it. Death and horror.

You asked; I answered.

[Ripley]

10. How consistently ignorant some can be.

The calendar you make your dental appointment on was invented by the Aztecs.

The Cycle of Life is not a "death theme" but does include death.

One of the most renowned American architects - Frank Lloyd Wright - was heavily influenced by these Aztec building styles.

And if you can't find it within yourself to admit that the top 5% of Americans own all the wealth of this country, you may need to study.

The middle class of America may be the "third" but it is shrinking into the bottom and you know it. Mobility between all of them? what? How many people really move up into the top 5% of America? You simply don't know what that is. America is a bunch of wannabes who think they are rich when they make $100,000. Check that stats.

Okay, you want to attack me: In short, I think the analogy is highly erroneous and a product of extremely sloppy thinking and vast amounts of self-righteous vanity and emotionalism.

If that's not a veiled personal attack, I don't know what is.

You seem to be undereducated in the area of MesoAmerican Indians and find your joy in being Mr. Attack. Good Luck with that.

[forgethell]

13. Any body

who thinks that Aztec society was in any way better for its people than American society today is the willfully ignorant one. Hell, people are streaming out of modern day Mexico, while only a few Americans make the opposite migration. The facts speak for themselves.

Very few Americans live like peasants in the old Aztec days. None, insofar as I know.

Unless you are a professional in the area of pre-Columbian American history, I probably know as much about it as you do. Maybe not, but enough.

Frank Lloyd Wright: not a nice man, but he did have a certain flair. Western artists, as has all Western culture, freely borrowed from others over its entire existence. Did you ever read Black Athena by, if I remember correctly Martin Bernal, or maybe it was the other way around. Anyway, the thesis was that the ancient Greeks stole their civilization from the ancient Egyptians. Ridiculous on so many levels. First, you can't steal culture. You can adopt it for your own. You can borrow ideas. But steal? No. The Greeks, however, did learn a lot from Egypt, no doubt. On another level, he threw in borrowings from other countries in the Mid-East and conflated them with the Egyptians in his arguments. It was truly sloppy scholarship.

So, so what if FLW used Aztec motifs? Does that make it any better for the guest of honor at a cannibal feast?


I just disagree about how to interpret it, and as I said, the thinking you have applied seems sloppy and self-centered to me. It seems to me to be just a screed with which to bash America. The constant comparisons of the US, even under Bush, to Hitler or the Aztecs, or several others I've heard, are ridiculous and self-defeating. It turns off normal Americans, who are not ashamed of being from America and resent constant attempts to make them so. I like winning elections myself. So many people would rather vent. But maybe I'm wrong.

You have a nice day.:)

[Warpy]

7. The art and culture haven't been completely forgotten

Exhibits of Aztec art make the rounds from time to time, and it's very disturbing stuff. It's beautiful, but disturbing, like the magnificently carved crystal skull.

Aztec dancers perform here in NM in the big city at least once a year, and they are magnificent. While not strictly limited to the descendants of Aztecs who fled north away from Coronado, they've maintained the traditions and costuming.

Their traditions regarding women and power have been completely suppressed, of course. The majority of men will always embrace anything that calls them demigods and gives them legal power to dominate the other half of the human race.

[bpilgrim]

8. most empires are, sadly

to me it is STRIKING and FRIGHTENING how similar our policies are with the imperial Japanese of WWII infamy.

peace

[Charon]

14. Aztecs

At which stone pyramid will we be examining hearts today?