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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 06:55 PM
Original message
And the freeper strikes me again!
I just got THIS in my inbox!! This was after I sent her a ton of links to show her * lied about WMDS!!

You know what I don't get....If Clinton was the wonderboy of ethics you claimed and you were spouting off quotes about how Bush has lied that would be one thing..but the Clinton administration lied CONTINUALLY... A few examples...(just so happens to be about...you bet! Iraq and Chemical Weapons..)

n December 16, 1998, Bill Clinton informed the nation that he had ordered military action against Iraq. No less than three times Clinton referred to Iraq's nuclear arms or nuclear program.


Example 1: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."

Example 2: "Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas, or biological weapons."

Example 3: "And so we had to act and act now. Let me explain why. First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years."

Notice that in the first example, Clinton speaks of attacking Iraq's nuclear program, which obviously requires the known existence — indeed, the location — of such a program. And in the third example, Clinton warns of an imminent threat Iraq could reconstitute, among other things, its nuclear-weapons program, thereby alleging its existence.

Now, on what basis did Clinton conclude that Saddam Hussein had a nuclear weapon, a nuclear-weapons program, or the ability to reconstitute such a program in months? Well, let's look at certain key public statements and representations by Clinton himself and his top people.

Fact 1: On September 3, 1998, Clinton reported to Congress on "Iraq's non-compliance with U.N. Security Council resolutions." In the section of the report labeled "Nuclear Weapons," Clinton's report stated:

In an interim report to the UNSC July 29, the IAEA <"International Atomic Energy Agency"> said that Iraq had provided no new information regarding outstanding issues and concerns. The IAEA said while it has a 'technically coherent picture' of Iraq's nuclear program, Iraq has never been fully transparent and its lack of transparency compounds remaining uncertainties. The IAEA noted Iraq claims to have no further documentation on such issues as weapons design engineering drawings, experimental data, and drawings received from foreign sources in connection with Iraq's centrifuge enrichment program. The IAEA also reported that Iraq was 'unsuccessful' in its efforts to locate verifiable documentation of the abandonment of the nuclear program....

Thus, Clinton's own report to Congress, during the lead up to military action against Iraq, contained no substantive information about Iraq's "nuclear arms" or "nuclear weapons program." Instead, it emphasized the near total lack of insight into such matters.

Fact 2: On September 9, 1998, in response to the United Nations Security Council's vote to suspend Iraqi sanction reviews, Clinton issued a short statement which said, in part:

... The Security Council has made crystal clear that the burden remains on Iraq to declare and destroy all its nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them.

But Iraq did not "declare" its "nuclear weapons." In fact, there's no evidence Iraq actually had "nuclear weapons," per se, as opposed to certain materials or parts that might be used to build such weapons. Clinton's statement regarding Iraq's "nuclear weapons" was utterly false.

Fact 3: During Mike McCurry's September 30, 1998, press briefing, McCurry contradicted Clinton's September 9 statement. McCurry stated, in part:

... e are aware of the allegations that Iraq retained weapons-related components, but we can't confirm the specific allegation that they have acquired those devices. There's little doubt that they have sought nuclear capability. That's been one of our long-standing concerns and one of the reasons why we have insisted on support for the international efforts by the International Atomic Energy Agency to monitor and to investigate suspected activities in Iraq. It's why we've supported UNSCOM, as well, for similar and related issues.

Iraq's current refusal to allow inspections by both the IAEA and UNSCOM ... is totally unacceptable. We continue to believe that there is a lot more to know about Iraq's nuclear program. We've sought clarification before we're willing to consider what kind of final punctuation mark you can place on efforts by Iraq to acquire nuclear related technology.

So, McCurry made clear that the Clinton administration could not confirm that Iraq had actually acquired "devices" for producing nuclear weapons, or even the extent to which Iraq was attempting to acquire "nuclear-related technology."

Fact 4: At a September 30, 1998, State Department press briefing, Secretary of State Madeline Albright's spokesman, James Foley, was asked about Iraq's nuclear capabilities.

Question: "I was just asking about the Iraqi progress towards nuclear weapons. There two reports in the past two years, apparently, that the United States has been told that Iraq is building atomic bombs, at least the nuclear shells, the nuclear weapons without the atomic cores. Can you comment on that?

Mr. Foley: "Well, I'm not aware that the United States has been told any such thing. But what I can say in response to your question and the articles is that we are aware of allegations that Iraq retained weapons-related components, but we cannot confirm these allegations. ...

... In terms of the allegation itself, again, it's not something we can confirm; it's important, though, to understand the potential ramifications. Having several components of a warhead does not mean that one necessarily has a usable nuclear weapon. In this regard the IAEA, we're told, feels confident, that Iraq does not have sufficient fissile material or the ability to produce that material for a weapon.

Again, this really underscores our concern about the lack of intrusive UNSCOM and IAEA inspections. The limited ongoing monitoring program can help deter obvious Iraqi attempts to rebuild the WMD capability during this period, but we are very concerned, obviously, about the longer run."

Foley, therefore, could not even confirm that Iraq retained nuclear weapons-related components. And Foley emphasized that without U.N. inspections, the Clinton administration did not and would not have insight into nuclear-related issues involving Iraq.

Consequently, on December 16, 1998, when Clinton told the nation that he ordered military strikes against Iraq to, among other things, attack its nuclear program, to prevent Saddam Hussein from threatening the world with nuclear arms, and to stop Hussein from rebuilding his nuclear weapons program in a matter of months, he had no basis for these assertions. They were utterly false. Moreover, I could find no statements from Secretary of State Albright endorsing Clinton's characterization of Iraq's nuclear capabilities.

When you contrast Clinton's unequivocal yet insupportable arguments about Iraq's nuclear program with the qualified yet accurate 16-words President George Bush used in his January 28, 2003, State of the Union Address to describe Iraq's effort to secure uranium, the liberal bias of the mainstream media in giving a continuing voice to Democratic charges becomes obvious. The Democrats are, and will remain, unsatisfied with any response provided by the Bush administration. Such is their political strategy. As if to highlight the point, Democratic-party advertisements accusing the president of lying already began appearing on television last week.

And President Bush's chief accuser is a long-serving, little-known liberal partisan from Michigan, Senator Carl Levin. Levin charges that "he uranium issue is not just about sixteen words. It is about the conscious decisions that were made, apparently by the NSC and concurred in by the CIA, to create a false impression" to help President Bush justify war with Iraq. Although Levin is chairman of no committee, he's now conducting his own "investigation."

But Levin never questioned Clinton's assertions about Iraq's nuclear arms, nuclear program, or imminent nuclear threat. He didn't accuse Clinton of manipulating intelligence as a cover to attack Iraq. He didn't demand hearings and investigations. In fact, back then, Levin himself played fast and loose with the facts.

On October 9, 1998, in a speech on the Senate floor, Levin stated, in part:

With respect to Iraq's history, the Security Council noted Iraq's threat during the Gulf War to use chemical weapons in violation of its treaty obligations, Iraq's prior use of chemical weapons, Iraq's use of ballistic missiles in unprovoked attacks, and reports that Iraq attempted to acquire materials for a nuclear weapons program contrary to its treaty obligations.

But as described above, in 1998 the U.N.'s IAEA, McCurry, and Foley had no evidence that Iraq was attempting to acquire materials for nuclear weapons, which is why they all decried the lack of U.N. inspectors in Iraq. Clinton's report to Congress, which Levin would have seen, provided no evidence. In other words, Levin, like Clinton, and many other Democrats, did, in fact, mislead the American people.



I guess, It is ok for your boy to lie....You certainly don't have a problem with the little stuff like boinking interns and then lying about it and then getting your wife to declare on national television that it is a right wing conspiracy...all the while knowing HE DID IT!

What should I say?? I would just leave it alone but I will NOT let a FREEPER get the last word!
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Kamika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. just give up
in the end its all clintons fault you know :p

as ive said about a billion times.. debating with a freeper is like bashing your fist into a brick wall.
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Sophree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. That 45% approval rating must really be getting to you people.
Enjoy the 40s while they last, Bushbots.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would point out that...
...Bill Clinton isn't president anymore and she really needs to get over it. From that point ask her how Clinton lying justifies Bush doing the same thing. Wasn't he supposed to be bringing honor and integrity back to the WH?
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Also that Clinton is our last president, of record, who actually got
the most votes. He was actually elected, fair 'n' square, by getting more votes than his opponent did. And somehow, that election was allowed to stand. Twice. I guess they hadn't perfected their election-theft machinery in time.
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Sweetpea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Plus , most of us are comfortable with discussing Clinton's flaws
They hold Bush to a perfection level of deity.
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Whirl Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. You know what I don't get,
How we can have the U.N. completley contain Iraq and all of his supposed WMD's, and still find a threat so large that we HAVE to go to war RIGHT NOW.

Back then we had the support of the world and our military was flexible to meet any challenges the world might throw our way (North Korea). Now we are spread so thin that we are having difficulty keeping our troops equiped and trained, and the rest of the world refuses to lend us a hand.
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Bingo, Whirl, and welcome to DU.
I like your answer. Short, to the point, and irrefutable.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
31. Hi Whirl!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton attacked based on DON RUMSFELD'S 1998 SECURITY REPORT
word for WORD.

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AWD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ask them if Clinton was lying back then...
.....and if he was, then so is Bush.

Freepers already think Clinton lie about everything, but if you give them that and use it to force them to admit that Bush lied too, it'll drive them insane.
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yella_dawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm not sure what the point of this "Freeper Moment" really is...
but doesn't it just reinforce the point that chimpy made up the WMD thing from the cobwebs in his head??
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ask for a link.
I would.


(You might want to stop corresponding with that Freeper.)
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uhhuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Some Thoughts
So what? Unless you have been telling this person that Clinton was a saint, what he said or did does not excuse what the chimp has done.
Also, every quote that this freeper used was about weapons "programs". The chimp administration from day one was screaming that they knew where the WMDs were...REAL,LIVE WMDs. Where are they??

Clinton's argument seems to have been that Saddam did not let the inspectors finish their work, so we don't know what's going on, so we will take out production facilities that we suspect might be producing WMDs. I don't completely agree that this was a good idea, but Saddam did let the inspectors come back recently. Guess who didn't let them finish their work this time?? How many guesses do you think this freep will need?

Clinton was not the Dem's god. He was a pretty good president that made some mistakes, both here and abroad. He also had some great sucesses. Ask your freep pal for ONE good thing the chimp has done.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your only defence of Bush is to attack Clinton
Clinton is irrelavant to the debate over wether we were lied to to get into a war.

It is only avoiding the issue to attack Clinton.

Bush lied, people died and are still dying. Point/match/set!
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ask her if Clinton lied about the 23 million new jobs or giant surplus
That should shut her up pretty quick.
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I tried that one..
And she chalked it up to Bush Sr. and Reagan and called me an idiot for thinking Clinton did anything to help the economy. She also let me know Bush inherited the recession Clinton started!
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Hi ChimpyMcSmirk!
The recession officially ended in November 2001; almost 2 YEARS AGO! Many more jobs have been lost in Bush's "recovery" than with "Clinton's recession." Just think a "Clinton recession" loses less jobs than a "Bush recovery." Hahahahaha!
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Clinton
There is a difference between airstrikes on the one hand and invasion, regime change and occupation on the other hand. The latter option was never seriously considered by the Clinton Administration. It is also a little strange for their side to complain about the strike on Iraq in December of 1998 when they were the same people who yelped, without ever showing evidence, that Clinton was seeking to delay the vote on impeachment. I remember Richard Shelby going on TV to promise an "investigation into the timing of this attack", whcih never happened. In any event, Bill Clinton is not president anymore and their continued criticisms of him are just a little timeworn and outdated in 2003. Their man is president now, and it's time for him to take responsibility.
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LittleApple81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
16. Your time (and ours) is too valuable to waste on a Freeper. n/t
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. OK shoot back with the intel given to Clinton via "cia" really
came from INC. INC was set up with funding from our gov in 92. Who was in office? That's right not Clinton. There based out of London hence intel from brit sources. Chalabi has done several speeches to congress over the years begging er asking for money. 2000 he asked for 95 mil instead of the usual 25 mil while also barking about iraq being an imminent threat. I can't remember the link but the INC has the speeches posted along with other info on line. I've been searching for a good expose on INC, haven't found one yet. I have pieced enough together to know most if not all dubious intel on Iraq has come from INC. Go search for more info on them if you find something really juicey please post it.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. Clinton was responding to Hussein's restrictions on inspectors.
He wouldn't let them check certain sites, and so Clinton had those suspect sites bombed. He had no hard evidence, no proof of anything at all.

Bush, on the other hand, claimed to KNOW for certain that there were not just weapons PROGRAMS, but actual chemical and biologoical weapons in Iraq in mass quantities, as well as an active nuclear program.

So to recap:

CLINTON: Airstrike
BUSH: Invasion/ Occupation

CLINTON: Said certain sites are suspicious
BUSH: Claimed to know for a fact that Iraq had hundreds of tons of chemical and biological weapons ready for deployment.

If this poor woman is too stupid to see the difference there, she's not worth talking to.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
21.  A word of advice Chimpy Mc: Wipe your feet and don't track mud indoors.
Edited on Fri Sep-12-03 09:15 PM by oasis
Bill Clinton is probably the greatest president you'll ever see for decades to come. There is plenty material archived out there to confirm this.

When you print Freeper messages here you are unwittingly doing Freeper's a service.
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
38. "Unwittingly"? Oh this is quite witting
...witless as it is. Rarely have I seen such a transparent incursion. "Don't call me a repuke!" it chirps. "Did I think Shrump was selected? You bet! and I'm still p.o.ed about it!" Gosh, really?

And politely we give it the benefit of the doubt. But it's obvious what it is. ChimpMc-whatever it calls itself won't be here long, I guarantee it.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. The point is that he wasn't a threat, not that he didn't have WMD's
But the fact that he didn't have WMD's is just a huge embarrassment for the war mongers.

Because it PROVES beyond the shadow of a doubt that he wasn't a threat.

So there.

Nice try, Chimp. Did you pick that name because you thought "they'll never guess I'm a republican, even though I'm identifying myself with the Chimp -- I mean President."
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Ummm....
Edited on Fri Sep-12-03 10:45 PM by ChimpyMcSmirk
Are you calling me a Republican??

Cause if so that may very well be the WORST think anyone has even called me! And trust me...I have been called some really bad things..but being called a repuke certainly takes the cake!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Do you believe George W. Bush was elected or selected?
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Selected
And I am still pissed off about it!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Welcome to DU. Visit the lounge when you have a chance.
:hi:
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. you sure went to a lot of work to post that
with the "this person I know said this" caveat.

If you're not a Clinton-hater/Bush promoter, forgive me, but I tend to be a little suspicious.

The argument is bullshit. The lie was that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the United States. Clearly (then and especially now) he was not. We all thought he probably had some nasty weapons. That wasn't the point.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. are you sure it's not YOU who is the freeper?
who gives a f*** what they think?
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Course it is. Just look at the subject line
"Oh, look what this nasty freeper wrote me! And poor me, I'm helpless to respond!"

Give me a break.
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. This stinks
You don't know me. You are certain that I am the freeper. What can I do to convince you otherwise? Ask me anything. My answers will clearly show you who I am and what my intentions are.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. It's September 2003 and it's still Clinton's fault
A question for the Freeper:
When exactly does George W. Bush's presidency begin? :shrug:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-03 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. evidence of imminent threat
Now if you're trying to argue that the IWR Authorization never should have been signed, you've already lost. The statements you have along with others leave plenty of room for anybody to argue there was concern about WMD in Iraq. What happened between 1998 and 2003, nobody knows, one way or the other. That's why there were concerns. Maybe Clinton's bombing eliminated all the WMD, maybe not. Nobody knew.

If you are arguing that Bush shouldn't have started the war at all based on the intelligence we were given in the months immediately prior to the war, then you simply rely on imminent threat. Because the Authorization allows military action to enforce UN resolutions. The UN must authorize any action to enforce its resolutions, we can't do it. That leaves the other cause, protect US security. And the only reason to launch a war in US history is imminent threat. They're in the area of Baghdad and Tikrit, they could hand dirty bombs off to terrorists, bla bla bla, all those threats. But not one piece of intelligence showed a weapon actually existed in Iraq, NOT ONE. Does your freeper support going to war based on lies when the US was not in danger like this Administration told us it was?
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
32. " What should I say ??? " Merely Highlight Example 1.

The status of Iraq's WMD capabilities ( ".....Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors." ), BEFORE "Operation Desert Fox" could very likely be different 4 1/2 years later.

IOW, it's plausible that the mission of 4 1/2 years ago had a measure of success.


Example 1: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. send this and ask "huh?"
Edited on Sat Sep-13-03 07:58 AM by JNelson6563
In his statement of September 16, 1998, Wolfowitz ridiculed Clinton’s policies toward Iraq and said, “Administration officials continue to claim, as Assistant Secretary Martin Indyk did in testimony to the Senate last week, that the only alternative to maintaining the unity of the UN Security Council is to send U.S. forces to Baghdad. This is wrong.”

Wolfowitz then articulated how, with patience and diplomacy, a critical mass could be reached by supporting dissidents in their eventual overthrow of the Ba’athist regime. “he key lies not in marching U.S. soldiers to Baghdad, but in helping the Iraqi people to liberate themselves from Saddam,” he said.

He detailed the patient commitment that such a policy would require however, such an action would deliver much stronger international support than American militarism. He said, “Our friends in the Gulf, who fear Saddam but who also fear ineffective American action against him, would see that this is a very different American policy, one that can rid them of the danger that Saddam poses. And Saddam's supporters in the Security Council–in particular France and Russia–would suddenly see a different prospect before them. Instead of lucrative oil production contracts with the Saddam Hussein regime, they would now have to calculate the economic and commercial opportunities that would come from ingratiating themselves with the future government of Iraq.”


http://www.republicons.org/view_article.asp?RP_ARTICLE_ID=717

What changed Wolfie's mind? Stuff like this:

A haunting familiarity exists between the Baker energy report and another policy paper that could negatively impact the Bush administration. The style of the two reports is similar, particularly in discussions on national security; their task force methodologies are essentially the same; they share the repeated use of a relatively rare term; they share similarly constructed phrases; they both name Iraq as an adversary and they both attack problems in the same manner. There is a possibility that one writer served on both task forces.

A little background is necessary: In June of 1997 a group of former republican administration officials launched The Project for the New American Century, a think tank offering research and analysis on a “revolution” in modern military methods and military objectives. Like the energy task force, the passionate neo-conservative authors endowed their Principles with hard-hitting force, calling for the necessity of “preserving and extending an international order friendly” to America’s “security, prosperity and principles.” The founders wrote: “The history of the 20th Century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge and to meet threats before they become dire.” In fact, on pages 51 and 67 of the institution’s intellectual centerpiece, Rebuilding America’s Defenses, the authors lament that the process of transforming the military would most likely be a long one, “absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.” (How unfortunate for Americans, they got their needed event on September 11, 2001.)

The signers to the “principles” read like a who’s who of the Bush administration plus a chorus line of supporters: Dick Cheney, I. Lewis Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Elliott Abrams, plus world famous: William Bennett, Jeb Bush, and Dan Quayle, among others.

The signers endorsed two other dynamic enabling policies: increased military spending, and the necessity of challenging “regimes hostile to America’s interests and values.”

The seventy-six-page Rebuilding America’s Defenses was published in 2000. With a lot of expositional swagger, the authors created not only the ideal military preparedness level for their goal of global domination, but they identified a new kind of warfare that requires far less “force” than the military was accustomed to accept. What’s more, they identified the “hostile regimes” mentioned in the “Principles” to be none other than Iraq, North Korea, Iran and Syria.

The report credits Thomas Donnelly, a military writer, as “principal author,” and lists twenty-seven participants, some of whom contributed a “paper” to the discussion. The list of participants includes Dick Cheney’s present chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby as well as Paul Wolfowitz.

The two documents clearly show that before George W. Bush took office, key officials of his future administration not only listed Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as “adversaries” who “are rushing to develop ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons as a deterrent to American intervention in regions they seek to dominate,” but endorsed an alien concept, the doctrine of pre-emptive strikes against those nations believed to have hostile intent against the U.S. before such intent is manifested.


http://www.yuricareport.com/PoliticalAnalysis/FraudinWhiteHouse.htm

Tell her to take her head out of her ass--but do it nicely. ;-)

Julie



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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
34. Uhm, What should you say? How about F*ck Off?
Always works for me.

Hmmm. Ya gotta wonder about these posts:

"Hi I got this email."
Followed by 27 paragraphs of Freeper-ness
Followed by "What should I say?"

Did you make wrong turn?
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cmd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
35. Don't give up the ship!
Keep hammering back at your friend. Bush lied. People died.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
36. Nice long plug
I only read a couple pargraphs. :boring:

Clinton (or his mighty penis) have nothing to do bush* lieing about WMD's or taking us to war under false pretenses. bush* was selected almost 3 years ago - it's time for freepers to get over Clinton.

Nor would I accept am argument without sources and links.

Welcome to DU.
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. This sounds like a hoax....
Doesn't deserve the attention it's being given.

This thread is more about gathering ammo to argue against DUers than to argue with freepers.
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ChimpyMcSmirk Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. I am really an honest person
This woman started on me the other day over on a message forum on Ezboard. The topic was "pathetic president or not?" My response was: I think he is pretty pathetic...actually he is way more than pretty pathetic...in my opinion he is the WORST President EVER!! I would NEVER in a MILLION years vote for that man! I think he is a liar and just a complete and total failure.

That of course opened a whole can of worms because I was the first person to speak out and say something wrong about their precious piece of crap fraud. I started getting attacked about Clinton (and I had never even mentioned him) and I wanted some good quotes and links from here to shut her up. It didn't work. She had the topic closed (after she got the last word in) and now people are attacking me in a new thread.

I just wanted some guidance from people here at DU. That's it. I have been lurking here every sigle day since last January. Sorry if I came off as anything else but I really and truely AM A DEM and PROUD of it!!!
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. I really and truely AM A DEM and PROUD of it!!!
Then welcome to DU!

Step carefully and watch out for the candidate bashing threads...

:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:
:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:
:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
42. When did the GOP start following Clintons lead??
hehe
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sistersofmercy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
44. Welcome Chimpy McSmirk! Love the name! I have a suggestion for
you. Do a different thread that is more pc here. I think I understand your intent, there are a lot of very knowledgable ppl on this board and when I don't fully understand something, I just read ie WTO, I just don't understand the issue. This site is a goldmine of knowledge.In the future when arguing with repubs just ignore their blame Clinton rhetoric. It really is pathetic that repubs attempt to use it as an excuse for Junior failures.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-03 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
45. ChimpyMcSmirk
Send this link to her, though I really doubt it will convince any right wing wacko, its fun letting them hear their leader in his own words.. http://mikemalloy.pmachinehosting.com/gallery.html

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