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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 07:49 PM
Original message
Gannon Wrinkles, Part 20
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. woo hoo! wrinkles twenty!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. man.....if you do the math -
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 07:53 PM by Faye
that makes about 400 posts for the first thread, and then about 200 posts for every thread since then.

that makes almost 4000 posts :wow:
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. woo hoo! 4000 posts!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Is that possible? Amazing. If I had a dollar
I would hire Andy to launch my business because he just attracts all kinds of characters. :)

Be well, Andy.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. 4000 posts! This calls for a celebratory moment...
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 10:56 PM by fooj
:toast: To all of the incredible people here at DU! We are all drawn here for one single purpose...TO FIGHT FOR THE INTEGRITY OF OUR DEMOCRACY! Cheers to all of the TruthWarriors and may we NEVER GIVE UP this fight!!! :kick:



TRUTH IS OUR MOST POWERFUL WEAPON!

Peace!
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #36
73. ...clink...
thanks for the toast! Just wanted to join the celebration ...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you, Moderator. Sorry to be such a pain in the remote. n/t
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yesterday someone posted
gannon would be on this radio show.

http://www.steveyuhas.com/
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you n/t
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. are you sure what we heard isn't from last week?
i thought Gannon was on this guy's show last week.

Could it be that the Gunderson interview we heard is from a week ago, and they were talking about LAST Sunday?

I could have sworn we already listened to Gannon on this guy's show.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. He was on last week. I was off line for a few, just catching up. n/t
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. How ya doing sfexpat2000. (waving) In the previous thread you
posted that Gunderson may have been hired by the cabal and you ask why would they do that. Could it be (and this is only a theory) similar to what they did with the substance of the Rathergate memos. They knew the substance of the memos was going to come out and would be very harmful to the weed's reelection, so they decided to control the release of the message, let someone that is not necessarily credible release it so that they could debunking the memos and thus, the contents and substance of the memos.

The substance of the memos in rathergate were accurate, they just controlled the release of the information and tied it to documents of questionable origin and therefore were able taint the information and were able to control the message.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
70. Yes, merh, precisely my concern regarding Gunderson. The...
...counter-point may be DeCamp. We'll see.

With TANG, 'buckhead' came and went.

With this mess, I think their screw-up is their underestimation of "Gannon" -- he didn't come and go. Early on, they may have thought they controlled "Gannon" when, in fact, it will be revealed that they had no clue whom he really is. I can't imagine they would have expected him to ask that question on 26 Jan 2005 and then begin taunting DU about his ratings.

A pun, or two, might be construed in the above, but I'm sure they are not intended :evilgrin:

Peace.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #49
77. Good thinking, merh. Yes, this is one of their strategies.
And, now that Karen Hughes is coming back, betcha we'll see more of it.

(Although, come to think of it, Hughes is more an "in your face" liar than the people who replaced her.)

:hi:


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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #77
95. I never realized the crazy Hughes lady left after the election.
So they are bringing her back. hmmmmmm :freak:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #95
110. the pResident just nominated her for undersecretary of state. n/t
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. No joke! I had missed that.
I thought she wanted to stay home with her family, that was more important to her than her career. Undersecretary, what's that mean, she has to put up with condasleaza?

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Dang! I'm supposed to be in a meeting but just realized that the....
....following post # 66, in the "Where's Gannon?" thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

May contain mis-information. I've now checked the Yuhas site and can find no indication of "Gannon" being on tonight.

Now, what disturbs me is that the crystal clear, and humane message of the "Where's Gannon?" thread is that we have not "seen" him for, now ~ 16 days, and, apart from those who think his "15 min of fame" is over, it is odd that he has disappeared (other than posts on a website that could well be being done by one or more folk who are not "Gannon.")

Just wanted to provide this heads-up. Gotta go. Will check back at ~ 630pm PST.

Peace.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Gannon was on this guy's show last week
remember we were all listening to it and saying it sounded scripted?

The Gunderson interview we heard must be from BEFORE last Sunday.

That is all. Gannon is not on tonite. That was last week.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I got the info from
Where is Gannon? thread and did not know he would not be on there this week, I am sorry for the fuck up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks, Faye.
And I just kicked the "Where is Jeff Gannon" thread.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. That IS interesting.
I wonder if another interview HAD been scheduled, but then SOMEONE canceled?

Also, I THOUGHT Gannon had offered to take questions from "lefty bloggers"??? Haven't seen any of that. Surely lotsa LBs would LOVE to interview him.

Who knows... he may be arranging a 60 Minutes interview with Dan Rather! Hahahaha!!!! I would pop the champagne to go with the popcorn for that one!




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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Has anyone emailed him at his blog address?
There's a link for both comment and questions if I remember correctly.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yup, some folks have sent him emails
without response. Dunno about "both comment and questions", just a contact email.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
129. I guess as much. I've been reading along and hadn't seen mention of it.
But with all the posts I probably missed it somewhere.

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ern Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thank you very much for the welcome yesterday.
I hate to beat this dead horse so much but I,m still trying to figure out where this gannon/guckert/gosch guy came from. I'm back to this so called marine corps insignia on the young gannon's tee shirt. These insignias are sometimes unit specific or they are made for special events. Is there any way someone can enhance this picture? Link is examples of insignia.http://www.betadesigns.com/Vgrfx/pages/Military_Artwork...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I have looked at hundreds of Marine insignias
in the last coupla days, but have not found that one.

I may be able to enhance it a bit... can ya gimme a link to the photo, I am lost!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
35. You are welcome. And, as to that T shirt insignia...
...though the features are too blurred to be very helpful, it has a "submariner" opposed dolphins aspect, perhaps.

In any event, it may be a clue, or maybe he was just wearing a 'buddies' T shirt because he didn't have time to do his laundry.

Peace.


p.s. it really was annoying to find that someone posted that a new appearance of "Gannon" on wingnut Yahus' show and didn't take the time to verify that they were referencing something that happened last Sunday.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. When I listened to the Gunderson interview, I estimated by what was said
that the interview was live Wed. or Thurs. of last week! The guy (brainfart...can't remember his name) interviewing Gunderson mentioned the Yuhas interview as well, didn't he?

Peace.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. Hey Laaady!
What's happening...
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. Photo Comparisons Gannon/Gosch and Gannon/Guckert
I will refer to this series as Gannon = Gosch

1st picture is from Jeffgannon.com this is the same photo that was compared to John Gosch Sr.
2nd picture comes from the composite of many images. This image was top left. His chin is pushed forward making the head tilt back a little making ears look lower.

Notice that he has a long neck -- low shoulders



This series I will call Gannon = Guckert
1st photo is Jeff Gannon Washington Right Talk
2nd photo is man in tux with round ear --- Round ear
3rd photo is from Andersen Cooper 360

Notice the short neck


Other pictures that may also be included here:
The conservative guy in t-shirt
The group photo of Karmak
Underpants
Behind desk -- books background


These are the pictures of H.S. Guckert and the pictures they seemed to match of Gannon. Earlier I did matchups for these.




This is the Mismatch series
I believe that 1 is a different person than 2 and 3

1st photo picture is from Jeffgannon.com
2nd photo is from Andersen Cooper 360
3rd photo is Conservative guy in t-shirt

Notice that the neck is shorter in 2 and 3
The shoulders are much higher and will not match up.



I am having trouble with the size of some of my pictures. Too big, too small. I guess I am missing something. PM me if you can advise.

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. that is all quite disturbing.
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 09:21 PM by Faye
wtf? how many Gannon's are there? it seems like he has doubles of himself :shrug: he looks different in almost EVERY picture!!!!

shit is really wierd man, really wierd. :tinfoilhat:
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butchcjg Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. They all look the same to me
Listen, I could easily just pull up 10 pictures of myself within the past 2 years where I look different in each one...different camera angles, various weight gains and losses (lots of people yoyo, etc), different lightings, tired in one pic vs another, etc.

They all look the same. You can't judge stuff like "neck height" b/c people could be slouching, etc!

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I pretty much accept that they are all the same person.
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 09:22 PM by troubleinwinter
perhaps not the last photo, but it is a low resolution .jpg. .jpg files can degrade. He looks heavier... but the .jpg file may have distorted.

First HS pic seems different, but I think the rest match.

Neck length, I feel, can be attributed to him getting a bit older (thicker neck), but especially that he is sitting (slouching?) rather than standing and posing. When posing, we tend to stand straighter.

HEY NONNY! Got a pic of the young Gannon/Guckert at the orgy party in the gray marine logo t-shirt??? I think I may have a clue on the insignia. Can ya post it? Or someone?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. If I AM right on the Marine insignia,
It isn't going to help us one bit!
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Here's the picture troubleinwinter--
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ern Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. that picture
of guckert with a tee shirt (marine logo) is on post 153 or 208 wrinkle 2.
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
84. These 2 just do not match up
1st picture is from jeffgannon.com -- still colorized
2nd picture is from Anderson Cooper 360

I think in both pictures they are sitting or standing up straight.
1 because of pose, 2 because he is national TV

I removed the backgrounds of both pictures and outlined in black for easy visibility.

5 double layer pictures (left to right)

1. 100% jeffgannon.com
2. 50% opacity with lips lined up --- eyes and top of head off.
3. 50% opacity with eyes lined up --- lips and top of head off.
4. 50% opacity with head lined up --- lips and eyes off
5 100% opacity Gannon from Andersen



IMO -- 2 different Gannons

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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #84
152. Nonny, this is great! But I have to ask,
did you scale both images so the chin to top of head length was the same? I can't tell from the pictures.

I'm coming to the same conclusion: there are two Gannons. Can you see the scar under his right eye in any of the pictures?

:yourock:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Thanks Nonny for all that you do!
In your first set of Gannon pics, that last one is an odd pose of Gannon. Me thinks he was doing something at the time. What, I don't know. But he looks like he was really concentrated on it. :-)
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. In the 1st row of photos, where did you say #3 came from?
As always, thanks for your work on this. :hi:
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. 3rd picture from composite of images
I'm not sure of original source --- I copied it "as as" from an earlier Wrinkle.

The 2nd picture is this same image at 50% opacity over the first.



The image I used is the top left.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
51. Well number 3 is not the same guy as number 1.
Edited on Sun Mar-13-05 11:48 PM by merh
Can you do a montage of just the lips of gosch, gosch, sr., gannons (plural), and guckert?

IMHO, the lips are so different, so are full (both top and bottom), some are thin top lips and average bottom lips.

If you take a piece of paper and cover the top of the faces of that row of 3 photos, you will see what I mean.


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Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Jay Rosen's PressThink blog
Just in case any of you didn't follow up on the link in the last wrinkle, Jeff Rosen's PressThink blog offers some truly superlative press analysis and I highly recommend that you keep an eye on it in the future.

It's important to be able to see Gannon's "accomplishments" in context, and to be able to understand how the Bush administration's manipulation of the press (aided by a press and country that lie down and take it) has done grievous damage to the institution.

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink/
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
40. Thanks for the info...
I'm on my way ...


Peace!
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wish my German was better
I was looking for more pictures of Gosch and this German site that is about Skull and Bones shows Bohemian Grove pics and Gosch and our fearless leader.
I'm sure it can be translated somewhere. Probably not that much new, but a lot on the Bonesmen including our fearless leader.
http://www.hofberichterstatter.com/21.htm

for effect:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. I think I posted about that on one of the older wrinkle threads.
Is it the one where they had a picture of Gosch but the words were in German? If that's the one, I will try and find it. I translated it thru the internet. BRB.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You may have
What was interesting was dubby after the pretzel disaster. :9
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. I can't find it. I looked thru 5 wrinkle threads.
Sorry, I lost patience. But you can copy the text under the Gosch picture and copy it to babelfish.altavista.com
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Point me to the text you need translated...I can do it or have my German
friend do it for me.

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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Here is the text about "The Grove" and Johnny
Dabei ist nicht jedes Camp fr jeden zugnglich. Whrend es mehrere ffentliche Camps gibt, ist fr andere eine Anmeldung erforderlich. Jedes Camp hat so seine Eigenart, die beispielsweise auch in einem speziellen Trink bestehen kann. So hat das Four Peaks Camp einen Nembutal Drink im Angebot. Dieser Cocktail enthlt warmen Rum, Kakao und ein krftiges weies Pulver, geliefert von einem pharmazeutischen Betrieb. Dabei handelt es sich um ein sehr verbreitetes Barbiturat, welches in den Drogenszene als Ersatz fr echten Stoff Verwendung findet.
Dies ist vielleicht noch die harmloseste Seite, die der Bohemian Grove anzubieten hat, immerhin finden dort auch Theaterauffhrungen und literarische Lesungen statt. Vielen Mitgliedern des Bohemian Club ist jedoch nicht bewusst, was im Inneren vor sich geht, in den Camps, wo nur wenige Zutritt haben.
So werden dort eigenartige Rituale zelebriert, von Hngen ber ein Scheinbegrbnis bis zum rituellen Kindsopfer findet sich alles.


Makabre Spiele im Grove vom Hangman bis hin zum rituellen Scheinbegrbnis ist alles vertreten

Ein solches Kindsopfer wurde (beinahe) der Zeitungsjunge Johnny Gosch aus Iowa, der im September 1982 spurlos verschwand.


Johnny Gosh verschwand 1982 spurlos

Smtliche Suchaktionen blieben ergebnislos, doch seine Mutter gab nicht auf, auch nachdem die Polizei ihr offerierte, dass Johnny wahrscheinlich tot sei. 1997 geschah dann das Unglaubliche: Der Zeitungsjunge von damals klingelte an der Tr seiner Mutter, schilderte ihr ein Tagebuch des Grauens und verschwand wieder im Untergrund.
Dieses Tagebuch des Grauens enthlt eine komplette Entfhrungsgeschichte, die im Bohemian Grove endete. Dort war Johnny zusammen mit anderen Kindern Spielball der perversen Gelste der Machtelite. Hier ging jedoch der Referent nicht mehr detailliert ein, sondern verwies auf sein Buch, in dem einiges dazu nachzulesen ist.
Johnny war wie gesagt nicht das einzige Kind, das auf diese Weise verschwand. Interessanterweise war die Zeitung, die Johnny austrug, der Des Moines Register. Es ist dieselbe Zeitung, welche 1915 als einzige die Warnung der deutschen Regierung in den USA abdruckte. Heute ist diese Zeitschrift brigens in Besitz von Skull & Bones Mitgliedern. Zufall nicht ausgeschlossen...
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. From Babelfish
Each Camp for everyone is not accessible. While there are several public Camps, a registration is necessary for others. Each Camp has so its characteristic, which for example also in a special drink exist can. So the "Four peak Camp" has a "Nembutal drink" in the offer. This cocktail contains warm rum, cocoa and a strong "white powder", supplied from a pharmaceutical enterprise. It concerns a very much spread bar bit urate, which into the drug scene as replacement for "genuine material" use finds. This is perhaps still the most harmless side, which the Bohemian Grove, nevertheless takes place there also theatre performances and literary readings has to offer. Is not conscious to many members of the Bohemian club however, which takes place on the inside, in the Camps, where only few have admission. Thus there strange rituals are celebrated, by "slopes" over a "illusory funeral" up to the ritual child victim are everything. Makabre of plays in the Grove - from "Hangman" up to the ritual illusory funeral everything is represented Such a child victim became (almost) the newspaper boy Johnny Gosch from Iowa, which disappeared in September 1982 without trace. Johnny Gosh disappeared 1982 without trace All search actions remained without result, but its nut/mother did not give up, also after the police offered it that Johnny was probably dead. 1997 happened then the unbelievable: The newspaper boy from at that time rang at the door of his nut/mother, described to it a "diary of having a horror" and disappeared again in the underground. This "diary of having a horror" contains a complete historyhistory history, which ended in the Bohemian Grove. There Johnny - together with other children - was ball by verses of the Gelueste of the power elite. Here however the adviser went any longer does not detail, but referred to his book, in which some is to be reread in addition. Johnny was like said not the only child, who disappeared in this way. Interestingly enough the newspaper, which out-carried Johnny, was "the Moines register". It is the same newspaper, which 1915 printed as the only warning of the German government in the USA. Today this magazine by the way is in possession of Skull & Bones - members. "coincidence" not impossible...
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. That translation is crappy...
so my friend and I are working on one a bit more...well english like
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Ich agree
Danke!
I don't know what it all is, but there are some interesting tidbits in there.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #50
87. What is interesting is that it said that the Des Moines Register is run by
Skull and Bones. Does anyone know if that's the case?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #87
89. I think there is a list of SnB members at
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 08:42 AM by Andy_Stephenson
delete...no longer a good link
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #89
92. I used to have it on my old laptop which crashed and burned. I'll
do a websearch and take a look see!

Hope you're doing well today Andy!!!! :hi:
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #89
94. Here is a link to members, and Gannett owns The Des Moines Register.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #89
101. Before Gannett, the Des Moines Register was owned by Gardner
Cowles and then his son Gardner Cowles Jr. Neither were members of Skull and Bones according to the list, although there were Cowles who were members of S&B.
Cowles Alfred 1913
Cowles Alfred 1886
Cowles William Hutchinson 1887
Cowles William Sheffield 1921
Cowles III Alfred 1913


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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
55. I translated this text using etsfree translation.com, which gives a very
rough, computer-generated translation. It gives a long history of Skull & Bones; I didn't see too much new, but the author says that Bonesman Arthur Gwynne Vanderbilt was on the Lusitania when it sunk, and apparently sent a telegraph back home saying that the Germans did give a warning before blowing it up. No newspapers in the US mentioned the warning prior to the explosion, with the exception of the Des Moines Register. The author feels that the warning was not mentioned (by most newspapers) to justify the US going to war against Germany. Later, the author notes that:

"Johnny Gosh disappeared 1982 without a trace

All that which is sought actions remained futile, but its mother did not give up, also after the police offered it, that Johnny would be probably dead. 1997 the incredible happened then: the newspaper young of at that time rang at the door of its mother, described a journal of the grey to it and disappeared again in the underground. This journal of the grey a complete kidnapping story that ended in the Bohemian Grove contains. There Johnny together with other children game bale of the perverse Gelste of the power elite was. Here the advisor went in details however no longer, but rather referred to its book, in which a few things is to be read about in addition. Johnny was not said how the single child that disappeared in this manner. Interestingly enough the newspaper that expedited Johnny was, that the Moines index. It is the same newspaper, which 1915 as only the warning of the German government in the USA abdruckte. Today this periodical is by the way in possession of Skull & Bones members. Chance not excluded..

An outlook on morning

The presidency choices in the USA stand this year, but the US-citizen has not a real choice. Both Bonesmen are both competitor, the officiating President George W. Bush and its challenger, John Kerry. There is therefore also an internal power struggle. An exit is plays is yet uncertain, however it for us no role, there the philosophy the same, so the advisor Andreas of Rtyi. "

I don't know if the author (Andreas of Rety) is saying that the paper has been Bones-owned all this time. Was it? He does not say how he knows that it is Bones-owned now.

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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. Johnny Gosch Blogspot
Is this new to anyone. I didn't see it before.
http://www.johnnygosch.blogspot.com /

Just throwing things at the wall tonight.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I missed this one somehow, thanks DemonFighter.
Anyone know the story on this blog?

If this is him, he's off the deep end and screaming loudly.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
82. You're welcome!
Somebody it throwing a lot out there. Some for everybody.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. it looks like someone fucking around and being an ass
mocking what we talk about here.

doesn't seem like anything but an asswipe.

but then i'm grouchy and i should be sleeping :nopity:
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I think you're right
Some makes a little sense, but some is off the wall.
Making fun out of a Johnny Gosch line of furniture is freeperish.
I like the graph though which seems real???
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. I just checked it out and I sware-this sounds absolutely crazy but
I got the total chills just reading the main page! I kid you not! I just got totally creeped out! WTF? I can't even say why...
I just got this wierd, bad vibe! Very bizarre.

:scared:



Peace.

BTW- I'm not high so that's not it... LOL!!!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #42
111. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
46. Did Gannon let the freepers use his home while he wasn't there?
To: Jeff Gannon
I knew your name rang a bell. You were gracious enough to loan out your home as a warm-up hut when I joined the DC Chapter counter-demonstating the A.N.S.W.E.R commies on 8th & I about 15 months or so ago.

Good to "see" you again. - 61 posted on 03/07/2004 7:20:14 PM PST by Fred Mertz
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Spencer10 Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Freepers
Hi. This is my first post on DU, although I have read all 4000 posts on this subject... and I hope to contribute something with more substance in the future. But, for right now, I just want to say that I think the validity of the above blog post is pretty much wiped out by the poster's name: Fred Mertz. I'm pretty sure that's the character from I Love Lucy.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. What do you mean? That the post is bogus?
Just because the name is made up doesn't mean the post is bogus. It was to Jeff Gannon as they were posting on a thread regarding Matt Drudge's radio show. Also, that may not be his name but his picture is floating around with the other freepers at their stupid freepings.
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Spencer10 Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Sorry
I sure hope I haven't gotten off to a bad start here. I may have misunderstood. I thought that post was from the Jeff Gannon blog spot referenced above and the name Fred Mertz just seemed to confirm what others were saying, IMO. If I misunderstood, please accept my apology.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. I thought the same thing Spencer!
Welcome to DU! Don't let 'em scare you, they bark more than they bite I've found.

Most are kind and caring that just want to learn and teach, connect and grow. And then there are some that will jump down your throat at the least little thing.I've learned lately to just not take any of it personally.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. Hey! I didn't bark.
I always try to be nice to posters. Now come here and let me give you a :spank:
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #69
85. If you promise not to bite!!
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 08:07 AM by vickiss
Hi cat_girl25! :hi:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #59
68. Oh. sorry. That post was from freerepublic.com
Welcome!
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #54
63. If you read all 4,000, you can't be all bad
Welcome to DU! Can't help you on the Mertz fella.
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Spencer10 Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Thanks
I'm not all bad. Just not as smart as most of the posters on DU I'm afraid. Some of you have such vast knowledge that it's a bit intimidating. I did spend about 2 years of my life (a few years back) researching everything I could find about various aspects of Bohemian Grove, the Franklin Cover-Up, Mena, Arkansas, and every other sordid piece of information that seemed to show up in my path. Eventually I became quite depressed and wasn't able to determine fact from fiction or truth from conspiracy. I'm not sure I'll ever know the ansswers to all of my questions. I finally walked away from all of it but have somewhat accidentally fallen back into it again thru the Gannon Guckert mess. Probably the only thing I feel like I could say with certainty at this point is that the big reward for politicians after power is attained is an insatiable appetite for sex. If even 5% of what I read a few years ago is true, I would love to see the lid blown off this whole mess and let the chips fall where they may. Anyone who considers sex with a child as a much deserved reward for having attained power in our government needs to be exposed as the bottom feeder he is.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #54
79. Welcome to DU, Spencer.
It is a character from "Lucy" but people have all kinds of screen names, you know?

Welcome. :hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #46
78. No, His post at conservative guy describes the event.
And hypes the fact that he talked to a WaPo reporter. (Why do you need the badges, Jeff?) Although, it could all be smoke.

I may have some bugs as for the last few weeks am reading FR, his site, all this right wing stuff. Maybe I'll just head to a carwash today :)
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butchcjg Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
52. What pieces of info
So...I only joined not too long ago and haven't read all 4000 posts (forgive me!)

Can someone tell me:

What pieces of info do we need to DISprove that Gosch is Gannon?

What pieces do we need to PROVE that Gosch is Gannon?

A lot of the posts here seem to be pretty far-fetched, but some are more realistic. Let's find out what info we need and maybe we can find a solution to getting that info.

Do we have Gannon/Guckert's college photos?
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. Why do you want us to move on from Gannon = Gosch?
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butchcjg Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. I'm not saying move on...but, move faster!
I'm not saying move on...I'm just saying, let's move faster. What pieces of info do we need to further prove or disprove this...and let's do what we can to get that info (like, paying someon to take a road trip to get photos, etc).

I DO think it sounds like a huge conspiracy theory...but, that doesnt mean it coudlnt be true.

But, if it isn't true, then we're wasting time...these 4000 posts could be on something that isn't so far-fetched and reveals something.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #58
103. We have done more leg work on Gannon/Guckert
than the MSM or other bloggers. Don't be impatient. Short of DNA, we will never really know the truth. Even Noreen proclaiming the existence of a relationship or an admission by Gannon would not be believed until DNA evidence proved conclusively. Of course, it depends on which Gannon is tested.

If this is all too slow for you, please feel free to do leg work of your own.

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
53. Where's St. Benedict?
Did you guys scare him/her off?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #53
60. Hmmmmm...
Three guesses...


Peace.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #53
61. I think the saint got stoned
I did get a e-mail back from Mark Z who I asked about the bald man with w. This is the picture St. Bendict said was gannon. Mark just told me he didn't know who the bald man was. I think it was already solved here. Dowling?
Funny, he didn't say whether it was taken by him or not.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #53
66. Never responded to my PM request and then ....R.I.P.; at least....
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 12:54 AM by understandinglife
....until he/she creates a new phony yahoo email account and registers at DU and begins trying to de-focus the pursuit of just who is "Gannon" -- for which we currently have very few clues.

What we do have is some folk trying really hard to denigrate (that cheeky little blog that appeared today being the most recent example), and distract from (as have some of the posts in the 'wrinkles' thread) the potential connection of "Gannon" to Johnny Gosch.

And, gosch, the harder they try, the more interesting that potential relationship becomes.

In any event, we've got a male purveyor of male-on-male pornography; and, perhaps a male prostitute, himself; roaming the West Wing for at least two years; bantering with the President of the USA; claiming to have access to stuff that truly breaches our national security; messing with information regarding the past military status of the current (though illegitimate) President; perhaps contributing to the demise of a US Senator seeking re-election; and, well, the list is so long my feeble memory fails me, who may now be writing a book about what he taped and experienced in his liaisons with the rich and powerful in the Bu$h regime.

Whomever "Gannon" is, he is already about as complete a statement of the demise of America as one could ever conger. Michael J is not even a warm-up act compared to this dude.

Peace.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. You are such a clever individual...
and so very subtle...

Peace.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #66
71. Unfortunately not our only perp...
I don't think they work alone...

I have a sneaking suspicion about some other folks on this board.

Three words "Protect the truth", it's all we have.

No one, should be spouting their opinion without some facts, and sourcing that information.
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fromBrooklyn Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
113. hear hear-
"protect the truth" indeed.

Though I don't believe Guckert is Gosch, on a certain level I believe they are inextricably tied - and very much both symbols of the sickness that has come over our Democracy.

I think those pursuing Guckert=Gosch should keep up the hard work, (perhaps Gosch worked for Guckert?) It can do no harm, and anything to shine light on the crimes perpetrated and unpunished by Bush Sr.s regime is, I think, work well worth performing.

"Protect the Truth" Almost as seductive as "Live Free or Die." (a personal fav. along with "Don't Tread on Me.")
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #113
126. Truth is our most powerful weapon!
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
62. Useful references:
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
72. A Bullet to the End - HST Remembered by ex-Lover
I just posted this in GD but thought those of you on the Wrinkle Thread might find it insightful regarding Thompson's dark side... and his name comes up from time to time in this thread regarding Bohemian Grove.

I have been following everything posted here since the beginning, and unless I missed some of the links, I don't think this is a dupe. Excuse me if it is.


www.alibi.com/editorial/section_display.php?di=2005-03-...



A Bullet to the End

Hunter S. Thompson Remembered
By Darlene Vander Hoop, AKA Norma Jean Thompson

"And yes, there was the dark side, the demonic side. I do have to describe this dark side to flesh him out completely. Hunter could turn a glorious fun time into something sinister and ugly like a dream turned nightmare in a turn of phrase or tiny event. Anything could trigger his rage."
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bluestocking_lib Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. this is INTENSE
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 03:18 AM by bluestocking_lib
I've been quietly following along since thread 1 and I must admit I've only tonite reached thread 10. my head has exploded about 300 times. I have a friend who recently purchased the franklin coverup book and I plan to read it eventually. I know these posts slow the flow of things so I do apologize, however, I must say this is all very provocative and historical. keep up the terrific investigative work.

also must state that I believe it is extremely important to be as open- minded with this issue (and any) as possible. if anything I've come to believe that most anything is possible and if you - be it a convention of your enculturation or otherwise - dismiss something purely because it seems too unlikely, you are participating in a system of willful deceit. all avenues must be traversed in order to access truth, whatever that may end up being.

best of luck.

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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #74
102. Welcome to DU, bluestocking ...
And to the wrinkle thread!

:hi:

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #75
81. Jesus Louie Delano -- NOTHING on this here in the States.
Please, everyone, read this. I'm going to go read it again. Thank you, Al.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #75
83. That is a big wrinkle
:thumbsup:
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #75
90. Full Circle
"Storch wrote, "Karl used to hang out a JRs, which is on 17th between P & S streets, before he became so well-known. This is a respectable gay bar for discreet people...," adding, "there is an expensive apartment...over near Dupont Circle that certain powerful senators take turns visiting with their pickups.""
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #90
105. Hey Andy, have you learned anything new about your situation?
Just checking on you my friend! :hi: :hug:
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #75
91. Thanks for this link althecat!
I have been looking for a comprehensive article to send to a friend to update him on this whole story. Looks like this covers most of it! Again, thanks.
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
76. I realize this is not going to go over well....
But i feel it has to be said. I am becoming a bit put off by all the accusations, insults, gang assaults and cut downs i am seeing on here. Information BELONGS TO NO ONE and EVERYONE.

Honestly it is becoming distasteful.

How small of a burning hoop are people expected to jump through before they are considered worthy of contributing to the wrinkle threads? Many a new person here is subject to suspicion or far worse contempt. Why?

Some people may be joining these discussions because LIKE US they want truth and are tired of our innocents being made victims. If they are unable to read through all 4000+ posts and happen to REPOST :::gasp::: something that has been discussed and dismissed, WHO CARES. We cannot be pleasantly bring them up to date? We have to speak down to them, TELL THEM TO GO ELSEWHERE? Also if someone feels there is something that needs further consideration, it becomes an annoyance to the "group" and they are not only mocked TO THEIR FACE, but behind their back as well?

Think about what this looks like to those just looking to help. I know what it looks like to me.

Dry up the fountain folks you die of thirst.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. Sometimes we need a reminder, thanks.
One of the things I've personally liked about these threads is how flexible people have been, how welcoming of other viewpoints. Fusion works.

So, thanks for the reminder.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. Thank you mordarlar. n/t
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 08:20 AM by vickiss
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useyourhead Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #76
93. You're right about being patient.....
but do you have someone in mind with this post?
Did you include St. Benedict in this?
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
97. Is this a game?
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 10:48 AM by libertypirate
or should we take this seriously.

I appreciate anyones input, but input is not an opinion; we get too many opinions.

We need to share thoughts and when sharing thoughts I think it is just as important to convey what prompted the logic. Too many here express an opinion without even mentioning "why" and as much "fun" as that might be for them, it does nothing for the rest of us.

This is about understanding and we have a great deal of a lack of understanding already.

If your offended that some people here are protective of the truth don't be foolish, the only weapon we have is the information we have gathered.

You should be just as suspicious of myself, andy, sfexpat2000, understandinglife, and everyone; in between. No one here knows much about the other people here.

As for those who are here with ill intention, I don't forget.

I don't forget how many times the subject has been diverted, and I don't forget who you are...

The cascading use of logic, and use of easily predetermined common sense conclusions; are only meant to burn a path where none should be.

The "Open Opinion" with obviously no thought about the "why" or how the conclusion was achieved.

If you don't mind I rather like my skepticism, it's healthy assuming others have my same intentions is not.


If it takes being a little bit of an ass to find out what's happening in this world I think it is well worth it.
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #97
128. You seem to forget that this "investigation" is being run on a message
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 01:33 PM by mordarlar
board. And as far as i am aware NOBODY was appointed to police what is and is NOT an appropriate AREA of discussion for this forum.

It seems to me the people most attacked ARE attempting to search areas that APPARENTLY seemed RELEVANT at one point or they would NOT HAVE BEEN "DISPROVEN". The reality of the situation is these people are not being singled out for the information they bring forward, it is because they have not PROVEN themselves. Who gave ANY OF US THE RIGHT.
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useyourhead Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #128
135. who are you talking about?
Who is being singled out? Can you be a little less vague, please?
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #135
139. There are many and honestly i could not name them all. I try to ignore
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 01:49 PM by mordarlar
the posts "reprimanding" them. The way i see it, until Guckert admits he is Gosch or someone tests DNA, ALL of us are running on hypothesis. Mine are NO MORE REAL than someone who may have only one post under their belt. Some of us believe there are more than one Guckert. Others believe there is only one. While others still see no connection between Guckert/Gosch. It is all speculation, looking for proof to support it. Nothing more. Each person is entitled to this SAME PROCESS.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #139
161. While you go on believing....

I will continue to focus on fact and actual documented information, to evaluate this mess.

No one's opinion should go unquestioned who gave me the write to question them... They did the moment they typed conjecture around so many truths in a public discussion.

Why is it that there are so many that come to the defense of people who either misspoke, lazy, or possibly even trying to drive this conversation off the road?

People this is a discussion chances are at some point you are going to be wrong about something. If your experience is anything like my own you will be more often wrong then right. We are better served by a person who is always wrong and admits it, then a person who almost always right but never says anything.

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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #139
162. deleted
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 03:20 PM by libertypirate
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #76
104. Thanks for saying that...
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 11:58 AM by TheGoldenRule
I've been following the "Wrinkles" since day 1 and have been reluctant to post myself lately... That being said, here goes...

There have been a few posts that haven't been followed up...

One was earlier in this thread by someone who said they knew a lot about Bohemia Grove and had studied it for a couple of years. I hope that person posts again with more information.

Also, there was a couple of very interesting posts in the previous thread about how Hollywood is trying to tell us what is going on. To me that was a mega important information. We are getting clues via movies and t.v.-not via the corporate media-and that's key! Hollywood people run in rich and powerful circles-they have undoubtedly seen and heard much of what's happening in Washington. I think we ARE on the right track!

I found the interview with Gunderson to be excellent and it bothered me that some discounted what he said because he believed in the Clinton body count. At this point, considering how fast this country is going to hell in a hand basket, I don't trust ANY of these politicians. And I "was" a major Kerry fan-now I'm seriously concerned about his involvement with Skull and Bones etc. I think * has something on Kerry...otherwise, why did Kerry not contest the election in a big way?! The way I look at it now is that none of these politicians are really and truly looking out for us-the little guy-who they have taken oaths of office to represent.

I don't think we know all of Gannons aliases and identities. That's why we can't find out more history on him. I am curious to find out Noreen Goschs' maiden name, since that could possibly be one of the names he used.

Could Gannon be related to Gabe Caggiano? They have similar features and personalities. If nothing more, I think they're good friends and Gabe has been told to keep quiet. I have no doubt that many of Gannons friends have been told to keep it zipped and are doing so...more than likely out of fear.

Okay, my .02! Flame away! LOL!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. No flames....
"I found the interview with Gunderson to be excellent and it bothered me that some discounted what he said because he believed in the Clinton body count."

If you re-read my post, I didn't discount everything the man said because of his belief in the CBC. I said I wouldn't believe everything, not anything. Does that make sense? I may not be explaining myself properly.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. Sorry about that, I'm not trying to point fingers...
At this point, I'm not sure who said what...it's all getting tangled up.

I think we all doubt and should doubt snippets of this and that. Hell, I don't want to believe that Kerry could be doing anything wrong! At this point I'd say it's best to welcome as much information as possible but be skeptical at the same time as well. Even if some of it seems so far out there it's time not only to don the tinfoil hat but the suit as well! :tinfoilhat:

p.s. someone once posted a group hug smilie with all the smilies wearing tinfoil hats...I'd love to be able to use it...anyone have it to copy? TIA!
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #115
125. No need to apologize.
I am willing to accept all information as it pertains to Gannon/Guckert/Gosch/HST/Bohemian Grove/Franklin Coverup/Bush admn etc. Imo talking about the CBC has nothing to do with those subjects (although I was the one that brought it up).

And yes, that tin foil smiley group hug would go well here.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #125
136. CBC? Can't remember what that stands for...?
Having a very early senior moment....
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. Clinton Body Count.
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pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #115
138. tinfoil hat grouphug
hiya!
can find that image at

been hoping it would get added to the regular smileys someday
maybe just right click it, save it and put it in a photobucket or whatever
peace
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useyourhead Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #138
144. I LOVE that !!
Tin-Hat group hug...lol!
On that subject, check out the first entry here...and read the whole thing....

http://www.americablog.org/
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #138
158. Thank you pgh_dem!
I did use your smiley once before and then I think I deleted it by mistake from my files. Maybe you can you ask the administrators to add it to the smileys list...? I love it! Thanks again!

__________

p.s. Thanks mordarlar for the CBC translation!


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Ferry Fey Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
88. The Barnes Review -- credible source or not?
It's really nifty to have a passage like this to brandish around like a sequined cudgel:

"Following on the heels of Guckert-Gannon, Walter Storch, editor of the Barnes Review News reported a three weeks ago that 'Karl Rove was seen by one of my people entering a private homosexual orgy at a five-star Washington hotel over the Mid-Atlantic Leather (MAL) weekend last year.'

A Barnes reporter told Storch that 'Karl greatly enjoyed the supervision of a certain hairy 350-lb. Leather Dominator who had won the Miss Virginia Daddy Bear title at the MAL festivities.'" <2004>


http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article...

But googling "The Barnes Review" brings up only a handful of citations.

This about the publisher, Willis Carto

"Willis Carto, 67, began peddling anti-Semitism and extremism more than two decades before the inception of IHR. Liberty Lobby, founded in 1955 and currently the nation's largest anti-Jewish propaganda organization, was also the brainchild of Carto and continues to be his chief propaganda vehicle. Carto additionally founded the far-right Populist Party in 1983; in 1988, the party ran as its presidential candidate the former neo-Nazi and Klan leader David Duke."

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/american/adl/embattl...

"The Barnes Review" is quoted approvingly by Henry "Save the Males" Makow, one of Jeff Rense's stable of regular ranters, and many of the few citations available on it on an initial google are running Makow's article. Corroborating the value of Makow's position is David Wilcock of Ascension2000 (oops, it's already 2005 and we haven't ass-ended!), who refers to himself as the "researcher and telepathic ambassador" for an "angelic group, often known as the Confederation of Planets" and who makes a case for himself being a reincarnation of Edgar Cayce.

Also approvingly citing a article from The Barnes Report is the Vanguard News Network, which uses the slogan "No Jews. Just right."
On their front page they swagger, "Appeaser Annie's eager to score points with the jews she toadies for, so she insults an Arab. That passes for courage among her set. In her book about McCarthy, the coward went a hundred miles out of her way to avoid observing that without jews, there would be no communism in the U.S. Do you think niggers should be DEA agents? Why not? They make great entertainment."

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/november02/letters27...

"Andy Stephenson and Mary Schneider contributed to this report"

Andy hon, I can't believe you are letting yourself be mentioned in the same breath as The Barnes Review. NOT a good idea.

If anti-Semites and white supremacists like a website, that should be a signal to us to stay waaay far away from it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #88
96. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #96
98. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
useyourhead Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. shutting down debate.....
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 11:12 AM by useyourhead
I agree...this would mean that all some Rove type operative would have to do to make liberals run screaming from a site, is plant some anti-semetic sounding info and, presto! ALL the info has lost it's credibility. Everyone has an agenda, and sometimes there are overlaps. Don't make it too easy for the right-wingers to discredit valuable info. Just a suggestion......


This got posted twice, sorry.Don't have a clue how to delete it......
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #96
100. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
117. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
107. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
106. Did everyone see this, Andy listed as a contributor in linked article
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #106
130. What is it I am
not getting anything from the link ? :hi:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #106
147. Yes. I noticed that he was a contibutor...
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
109. a few thoughts
Gee, do I detect some paranoia here? Some self-importance? Well, yeah. Anyone who suggests Gannon ain't Gosch is immediately suspect. Some here want to believe that scenario so badly that they won't listen to any other suggestion. We are all looking at the same photos. What makes some people's opinion more important than others? I have eyes. Your eyes aren't better than my eyes. There is just one reason to think that Gannon is Gosch--the morphed photos look somewhat like it could be true. That is it. Period. Oh yeah Gunderson...for what that is worth. Gunderson who has never seen Johnny in his life. It is my opinion that Gannon looks far more like highschooler JD Guckert than he does Gosch. Which of course means it is more likely that Gannon is Guckert than Gannon is Gosch. And if Gannon is Guckert, he ain't Gosch. Call me a heretic but I am not even convinced Noreen saw Johnny after the kidnapping. There is a distinct lack of common sense and reason here...cause we all want this or some other anti-Bush scandal to be true. But God forbid that anyone says we are wasting our time or barking up the wrong tree. Please speculate forever. I want you to. If anyone dare say he aint Gosch, he is assumed to be a plant. The same illogic can be seen with regard to HST. One line in one book suggests something. One line by a possibly suspect witness relaying a definitely suspect witnesses information saying that the snuff film's "director" was HST (well, HT in this case). Why would these villains tell a victim his name? To compromise themselves? Has anyone mentioned HST is not known as a cinematographer? Or even a photographer. They picked him up in Vegas--like HST hung out in Vegas. To my knowledge he hated the place and was there only once to write Fear and Loathing. So the would be scenario here is that HST would reveal what he knows cause a fake reporter got outed, so he had to be silenced. Of course the powers to be had already gotten to Hunter's son and had already prepared him to assist in his father's murder should Gannon be exposed. Sure, that's plausible. And I'm Karl Rove.

I'm a little ticked because I have wasted many hours reading all these speculations. I thought you guys knew what you were doing, so I was sucked in. Now I see this is a big paranoid clique. Posters with 1000+ posts present their opinions practically as fact and are unchallenged. And those with few posts are immediately suspect and criticized if they say anything that messes with this pet theory.

In 4,000 posts, when has anyone done a control on photo morphing. And who has suggested that Gannon does not remotely seem like an abuse victim. I haven't seen it here. That would contradict this thing that many (most?) would like to believe. Look at the videos of Bonacci. That seems like a victim. Gannon seems like a cocky preppy who isn't as smart as he would like to think he is. He appears to have a sense of humor and a big ego, which you would not expect of someone who was kidnapped and abused.

The more obvious scenario is that Gannon, who is a pretty crappy shill all in all, must be doing someone in the WH to get as much access as he had. I mean the CIA already has shills in the media. Shills with substantial credentials, so why risk using a nitwit like Gannon? Answer--cause he was doing someone. Was it Ari? or Scott, or Karl, or best case scenario Bush? Maybe so. I think if the amount of work done in these 4,000 posts was applied to finding out who Gannon was servicing we might have that solved that by now. However, I suspect no one here has any ability to get that info, so we console ourselves with this seemingly fruitless dead end of Gannon being Gosch. We need detectives following Karl, our Scotty, and Gannon. I live in DC. Give me some leads.

On the other hand, we really don't need any more information. Gannon was a shill who had undeserved security who was as partisan as the day is long. I mean, he never asked a question that was anything other than a thinly veiled dumping on Democrats, or a setup for a rehearsed bush monologue. Reps and Senators are already on the case. But not the MSM. And until they push it, nothing will happen. These motherfuckers just go limp until it goes away. Seen it dozens of times. I know we want to get to the TRUTH about Gannon and all that, but me, being shallow and all, just want to see bush go down. And I believe only a sex scandal involving the president will do the trick. And we have atleast the possibility of that with Gannon.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. What are you trying to say here?
Can you be more specific?

:)
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #112
118. LOL catgirl!
The post reminds me of a news story I saw a couple of months back. A British couple had ordered a video from a catalog of a Doris Day movie, yet when they played it, it was hard core porn. They were quoted as saying how incredibly shocked they were, and how repulsed they were--yet also strangely fascinated. They were so shocked they just HAD to watch the entire thing!

Yeah, I don't like to see paranoid backbiting, either, but when you start with subjects like this, no matter the group, you see it all the time. One notable will attack another notable thereby throwing into confusion all of the people who followed the work of both, or "newbies" are regarded with suspicion (saw that in the 04 Election Fraud forum a lot, and Admins had to put their foot down about it). But this is certainly not unique to DU. I just take it as an "(pre)occupational hazard." There's always the ignore button if you don't trust yourself to ignore someone without it. I know these are serious issues, but probably ignoring people who say something you don't like is probably the best option.

There's a school of thought regarding dog teaching, and indeed people have applied it to many other disciplines. Ignore the behavior you don't want to see replicated and highly reward the behavior you do want to see replicated. You can also use "shaping"--that is, reward for behaviors that are closer, then closer, then still closer...then BINGO! Jackpot!

So if you think someone's providing disinformation, ignore that person. If you see that person provide what you consider better information, give positive feedback, a pat on the back, a smilie. Otherwise, just let 'em go in peace is my idea. Why argue about it?
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #112
131. what I'm "trying" to say:
Which is this: I hate that fucker bush. he needs to be impeached. run outta town on a rail. revealed. exposed. jailed. and all his cohorts with him. we are going in circles, while he marches on. And, damnit! That is what I am trying to say.

On another subject. no wait, same subject. So the bald smiling guy is Mark Annotto? Who is that? Why was he there? Why does the chimp think it's cool to pat his head? And where can I find some other picture of Mark Annotto?

Regarding the bald head patting fetish: The chimp has a dog.(A dog I perceive to be rebellious towards his master, as seen in several videos). Of course a dictator would most likely be a dog person rather than a cat person. But my point is, that bush regards other people as his pets, sub-human. It reminds me of when bush cleaned his glasses on the woman's sweater on Letterman. People are pawns for him, mere objects. He reduced the woman in the sweater (see, I am reducing her too, cause I'm not bothering to find out her name. For me she will always be the woman in the sweater on Letterman...or was it Leno?) to a piece of Kleenex. A person is someone you pet, or give a demeaning nickname to, or use as Kleenex, or have executed, or label as collateral damage, or use as a soldier/pawn, or lie to, or manipulate, or bully. See, george is on a mission from God. He said he knew his country was gonna need him. Motherfucker is messianic as all get out. See, he's workin with God, remaking the entire world if possible in his own image, which is in complete agreement with God's agenda. See, God must want george to be president for just this purpose. I mean why else would God let George get away with stealing the elction twice. George does not need to study history or politics; God directly ( or possibly through Karl Rove)speaks through George. The man's goin' with his gut feeling. He's convinced that in 40 years history will bear it out that George did wonderful things for amerika. Which of course shows that he knows what he is doing know is percieved by most people as crazy, insane, and evil. He is playing God, we mortals are just the chesspieces in his mad game.

Anyway, don't you think it odd that HST's son would be shooting a gun off in honor of Hunter 20 minutes after his suicide? Unless...
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. just trying
to get a little...
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. credibility
by boosting my...
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #133
134. number of posts
quickly
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #134
142. LOL!
:thumbsup:
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #134
149. Sforza you are funny and
I like your sense of humor !

About George W., what if he is not really spiritual, not evangelical but using the religious right only for votes.
That is what I feel is really going on with him.
Example, of Tom DeLay would you say he is really a Christian ?


As far as HST's son shooting into the air after his dad died. People do that, really. I am from the south and have seen this before.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #131
143. You didn't have to reiterate. I was just joshing with ya.
Bush is the type of human that would spit on you in a heartbeat.
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #131
178. mark annotto
I just looked at the picture of Mark Annotto on this site http://www.markisfunny.com/shows/bio / and it does not look like the grinning guy bush is patting on the head. I think the grinning guy looks like Gannon, certainly more than he looks like Annotto. For one thing, it looks like Annotto has a full head of hair just mostly shaved off. The grinning guy is actually bald in the front. I think Gannon is too.

When comparing pictures, I think it is helpful to try to get a sense of the person from their eyes. Not the shape, etc, as much as the expression. Since we have several pictures of Guckert in high school, you can get a sense of how he carried himself as a person, how he looked out at the world. I see the same thing in the Gannon pictures, which is what connvinced me more than comparing points of similarity. They both have the same "look". They hold their head in very similar ways. The points of similarity in the facial features are many. I thought at first the only difference was that Guckert's top lip looked fatter than Gannon's but then the one picture shows Guckert with a very thin upper lip. Also Gannon and Guckert have the long chin, which Gosch does not, and sometimes jut it out there in the same way. Gosch has a wider mouth, while Guckert and Gannon have the same width. If you compare the eyebrow ridge of the full range of Gannon and Guckert pictures, you will see that they are essentially identical. I wish the person who did the 7 picture morph which really got us going would do a few controls. Like take the Gosch picture and duplicate the 7 steps, except do it not with Gannon but say, Ron Howard.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #109
116. No one forced you to read the threads or waste the hours, we are
just a little ole message board, batting about ideas, discussing possibilities and viewing images. You seem to be the paranoid one. What opinions are taken as fact that have gone unchallenged? Please let us know, we will be happy to discuss them with you.


"I'm a little ticked because I have wasted many hours reading all these speculations. I thought you guys knew what you were doing, so I was sucked in. Now I see this is a big paranoid clique. Posters with 1000+ posts present their opinions practically as fact and are unchallenged. And those with few posts are immediately suspect and criticized if they say anything that messes with this pet theory."

I am not sure the purpose of your post either, would you care to explain?
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ocean girl Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. You're right, Merh
I've read all the threads also, and have not posted because I'm still learning from everyone here and don't have anything to contribute yet.

But I would never presume to disrespect anyone's opinion, since the function of discussion groups is to DISCUSS and not to presume that one person knows the absolute truth. If the real truth were known, there would be no reason to DISCUSS the subject.

I call this brainstorming and in my experience, it's a great technique to dig down to the reality of a situation. In the creative world, we use it every day, by throwing everyone's ideas on the table (or whiteboard) and picking through them to formulate a concept.

Why would people want to stop this process and DISCUSSION???

Jeez.

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #122
146. Things that make you go hmmmmmm!
What are they so afraid of? :shrug:
What are they hiding? :freak:

:hi: A belated welcome to DU and to wrinkles! :hi:

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. Hi there. Happy Monday...
Check your inbox in about 5 min., OK?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #148
153. Okay, have checked it and no mail yet!
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 02:38 PM by merh
Happy Monday to you too! :hi:

Edited to add - rec'd & check your inbox.


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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #109
123. Point taken...
You are right...it does boil down to wanting to get *.

Okay, so maybe Gannon isn't Gosch, but it's worth looking into. Why? Because questions remain. Why did the Franklin/* Sr. Scandal vanish into thin air all those years ago? Why isn't someone powerful and very well connected who is an enemy of * investigating this story? Could that powerful and well connected person have been the one who exposed Gannon in the first place? If so, why has it stopped there? There are questions upon questions...

Okay, so maybe we're going in circles, or maybe as Andy said, we've gone full circle... :shrug:

Though one thing remains...we need more information. Keeping this thread alive may be the best way to get it.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #109
141. Sforza,
Welcome to DU. :hi: I have not read anything you've written that would lead me to think you are a freeper. I believe many if not most DUers agree with your assessment of this thread. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of wonderful DUers who participate in this thread that I agree with in 98% of their postings but not at all in this thread. And I have seen them welcome with open arms some newbies on this thread who turned out to be suspect (St. Benedict comes to mind).

iow, I hope you won't get discouraged by what I perceive to be some hostility toward you in this thread. If you are sincere in wanting to be of use, please continue to post. You might want to consider another thread, but if you're thick-skinned, continue posting in this thread by all means. I appreciate the perspective you offer here. But then, I'm not really participating in this thread any more myself because I agree with you. I just skim it occasionally in case they actually do uncover something of use, and I keep the links up-to-date in Demopedia.

Peace!
itf
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #109
151. When I was a child, perhaps 1960,
my father was a physicist and showed me some photographs that I thought were boring. Big black field with speckled white lines going across at angles.

He explained to me that they were trying to determine the size and shape of an atomic nucleus, and that it was too small to see in any way.

The photos were of the TRAILS of charged particles directed at this object. They determined the shape of the object by photographing how the particles bounced off, or ricocheted off of it.

(with apologies to those who know more about cyclotrons, bevatrons, and particles than I do, and especially to my dad, for my rather unscientific explanation above!)

This was an interesting lesson to me.... you can determine the aspects of something that you cannot 'see' by tracing how other things bounce off of it.

That is some of what we are doing here. Some of our 'particles' (theories, scenarios, etc.) may miss the object entirely. But that may tell us something, too...it helps define where the object is not.

There are MANY different ideas presented here.

I do not believe that Gannon is Gosch. I am skeptical of much of what Gunderson says. I have expressed that these are MY views, but NEVER told anyone they were wasting their time or to move on or to hurry up or to stop their study or that their ideas were as implausible as that "I'm Karl Rove." I have learned much about Gosch that I had not known before. It has been an education for me.

I do, however, challenge a person that insists that something is an absolute fact, but refuses to or is unable to back up the assertion.

I am not sure that we will EVER reach a unanimous consensus on the facts of this matter. Scientists don't generally unanimously reach a consensus either. Only juries do that.

"I'm a little ticked because I have wasted many hours reading all these speculations. I thought you guys knew what you were doing, so I was sucked in." Where have we represented that we are anything but people discussing subjects and expressing opinions of interest to us?

"...we really don't need any more information." Why not?

"Give me some leads." What we know or speculate or contemplate is here for you to read or not. You said no more information is needed. If you want to follow "Karl, our Scotty, and Gannon" around town, have at it. Participants in these threads do not owe you 'leads'.





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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #109
154. Seems like there are several
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 02:59 PM by hiley
that don't beleive Gannon is Gosch here. Personally, I think he is but really that is just my view. I am not trying to change your mind or anyone esle's.

Gunderson has said some bad things .Right now though this is how I feel about Gunderson.
(Apparently Noreen trust Ted Gunderson and Alex .)

(Sometimes, strange people know the truth.)

Some of the things Gunderson has witnessed and investigated probably caused him to go (maybe) off kilter or something.

I think HS Guckert is not Gannon but that doesn't mean I have a problem with you if you do.

from your post here.......
I'm a little ticked because I have wasted many hours reading all these speculations. I thought you guys knew what you were doing, so I was sucked in. Now I see this is a big paranoid clique.

Why read it really there are so many other topics ?
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
119. Back to the bridge of the nose....remember how that bigged me?
It seemed like the biological father Mr. Gosch....had the same broad wide bridge on his nose that the 12 year old Johnny had...can someone point me to the daddy's picture again?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #119
120. Here ya go.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #120
121. thank you very much....n/t
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #119
124. I have to say the the nose of the 12 year old bugs me a lot, cause
I think that 12 year old kid....would still have that "wideness" that was so apparent at age 12. So now I'm wondering if all of this Gannon stuff from the "git go"....was to have all of us dig that whole story back up from it's buried death....to live again.....the bridge of the nose.....it just keeps me from thinking Gannon is Gosch.....I know yall think noses can change a lot...but look at the wideness in the daddy's face.......
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Maybe the nose bridge is from his mom.
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 01:20 PM by cat_girl25
:shrug:
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #127
137. maybe so, but wouldn't her nose be apparent at the age of 12? n/t
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #127
150. Does this help?


I believe one of the gannon's we have photos of is gosch, I think the other is guckert. I also believe there is a third gannon. :tinfoilhat: I don't mind if people think I am a conspiracy nutt, at least I use my mind to think and ponder and decipher rather than just follow and hate.

:tinfoilhate:


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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #150
156. two Gannons, the younger being Gosch, explains most ...
... of the info we have so far, what prompts you to suggest a third Gannon?

i am not averse to the notion of a whole slew of Gannons (collections of lookalikes), waiting in the wings to be used when needed. I'm just curious about the piece of info you cannot place properly without this third Gannon.

i raise you a hat :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #156
167. There is an odd man out in some of the photos, he just doesn't
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 04:24 PM by merh
seem to have the same characteristics as the other two. There is the odd round ear gannon and that last image in the last row of photos in nonny's collection. (Post 19 above).

Who the heck knows :shrug:

I will just adjust my :tinfoilhat: and watch as things continue to developer! :hi:
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #150
172. Maybe it's just me, but even her bridge looks wider than G/G's......look
at the 12 year old.........it's so pronounced....so wide.....it's just a "sticking point" with me.........by the age of 12 both of my children had the nose they have today(19 & 24)......go look at your kids...
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tuffylee Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
145. Todd Blodgett's ties to Iowa
Padded by a wealthy Republican father, Todd Alan Blodgett has been a free-range hustler inside and out of the Washington Beltway since he served as a staffer in the Reagan White House.

The 39-year-old son of Republican State Rep. Gary Blodgett of Iowa, Todd Blodgett was a protg of the late Lee Atwater, a key GOP campaign strategist of the time. Fresh from Drake University journalism school in 1983, Todd Blodgett went to work for since-
retired Republican Sen. Roger Jepsen of Iowa.

Didn't realize Blodgett had ties to Iowa.
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darkbeforedawn Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #145
157. ? about blodget
I must have missed a thread or two. Please fill me in on what this guy has to do with the case, or if this is a new thought. Thanks
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greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
155. Andy has finally had his endoscopic ultrasound!
He was supposed to have it on Friday but got bumped at the hospital so it was rescheduled for 7:15 a.m. today.

There are no results yet and he is uncertain when they will be in. Right now, he is fine following the procedure but exhausted, still under the influence of the anesthesia and is going to bed for a good sleep.

Andy won't be responding to any phone calls or emails this afternoon, and possibly not until tomorrow. He may be online this evening, depending on how he feels later.

Thanks, all!
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. Thank you
for updating everyone. :hug:
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darkbeforedawn Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #159
164. new message
rigorous intuition blog spot has an article about how a Nazi pedophile ring leader was finally thrown out of South America. Apparently he may have had extensive connections with poppy Bush. Anyway it is an interesting read. If you haven't gotten to Tom Flocco's I recommend it. There isn't much new, but it does mention that John deCamp has an updated version of his book Franklin Cover-up and that John deCamp has made some pronouncements on the identity of Gannon, but nothing definite.
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ern Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #164
171. I don't remember reading
the first name of johnny gosch's father was it also john or johnny? Is decamp, gunderson,and noreen the only ones that would know what johnny gosch would look like today? What about relatives? Here's a link it may be worthless. take a look 515 is des moines area code. Both a gosch and ahttp://cit.cce.iastate.edu/erl/april2002/Phone%20Books/DOT_phones.htm guckert working for dot.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #155
160. Feel better, Andy! Rest well!
You know where to find us when you're up to it! :grouphug: Until then-many hugs...
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
163. Craig Spence guy
I keep reading that Craig Spence was a partner with Larry King, but I have not found specifically that they were connected. Are there any newspaper articles, etc, indicating such. Is the Omaha ring connected to the WH tours ring? Here is the whole series of Wash Times newspaper articles with no mention of LEK...

http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/a...

On a dif subject, why do some say snuff films and human sacrifice take place at Boho Grove, and others like Alexander Cockburn say it's just a harmless rich guys club. Same deal with S and B. In neither case can we really find out without a defector. And that pisses me off. There should be a law against any US president being a member of a secret society. Gotta be born here, gotta be 35, can only be elected twice, and goddamit, can't be a member of a secret society!!! If Cheney (alledgedly) had to divest Halliburton stock when he became VP, then Bush and Kerry should have had to divest themselves of membership in a secret society before becoming President. And neither would give up their membership. Or hell, even talk about it. With Clinton vs Bush Sr., we had Trilateral goons on both sides of the election. Then with Bush II and Kerry we have S & B on both sides. What bullshit. The Masonic presidents have been replaced with CFR, Trilaterals and Bilderbergers and Skull and Bonesers and Bohemians. Damn this pisses me off. Public servants my ass--there's nothing public about any of those organizations.

Also, the quotes from William Colby indicate a vast conspiracy. Like the one about the CIA owning every major journalist, or the warning to DeCamp that the pedophile conspiracy is too powerful to mess with. How authentic are they?

...more thoughts from a guy who is not a freeper. Donailin can vouch for me, as she knows I am an anarchist turned democrat. (can no longer afford the luxury of being an anarchist, shit's gotten too crazy.) Unless of course she's a freeper too. Ooops I've said too much.

I never suggested that anyone "owed" me leads...just lettin' you know I am in DC and am available for special assignments. You know, like going to the library and copying yearbook pictures, stuff like that. I don't think I'll be tailing any of these guys in my car. Not really looking for harassment from the Secret Service. (now who's being paranoid)
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #163
175. In the book The Franklin Cover-Up
the connection is made. Credit card receipts, for one, linked the two operations.

Alexander Cockburn gets his back up at "conspiracy" talk. Very Chomskyite of him. I like both Cockburn and Chomsky, but it's a blind spot for both, IMHO.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #163
176. A question....
Does it make sense to control only half the message?

If you control both sides of a argument aren't you just validating the opinions of different opposing groups of people.

As for the Gove I suspect that the truth gets literally stretched on purpose so that if a person finds a little truth they can easily be labeled a nut. Peer pressure, no one wants to be known as crazy.

Easier then controlling all those journalist is simply controlling their source... Do you ever question what you read from AP? Provably not because it's AP. Many times wire stories no official author.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
165. John Aravosis of Americablog.org weighs in on Gannon/Guckert/Gosch.
He calls it bullshit but that's okay. It's his opinion. And if it wasn't for him and his blog, we wouldn't know about Bulldog. High Five John! (If you're reading this). :-)

http://www.americablog.org/
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
166. Gannon played on Bar's Gay Baseball team
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Sforza Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #166
168. assuming Woody's Bar is not a CIA front...
If it is correct that Gannon was playing for this bar, it makes it very unlikely that he could be Gosch. In 1986, Gosch would be 16 years old. I doubt if he would be a regular at a bar, since the drinking age is 21. Aaah, but the owner of Woody's could be disinformation meant to throw us off the track that Gannon could be Gosch. Or, he could be telling the truth. All's we gotta do is drive to Philadelphia and check that picture of the team. Aaah, but what if the picture is doctored...
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. I agree. Is there anyone here in Philly or near it?
Plus we're all still waiting on pics of Gannon from his college yearbook.
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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #166
173. this gay baseball thing is worth checking out ...
... but the article reeks of "too much" precision. For example,"Wood turned to the portrait to easily point out Gannon, last row, third from right" and "that he was not one of his team's three non-gay players". It is probably only me.

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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
170. Small plane crashes that benefit people with scandals to hide.
Sorry for interrupting with this thought. Recently a small plane that was suppose to pick up Poppy Bush crashed on arrival. With all of these accidents that seem to remove witnesses and evidence from uncovering the truth, and after all of the information contained in these Wrinkle threads, I am curious about that plane crash for some reason.

Has a reason for the accident been determined yet, and would there be any connection with Poppy Bush, the pilot, or the actual plane to anything contained in the Wrinkle threads?

Maybe nothing, but it seemed very odd at the time that a plane that was suppose to pick up a former President and the current President's father suddenly crashes within moments of picking him up. I even remember thinking at the time, whether someone was sending a message to the Bush family and it happened right before all of this stuff started bubbling out again.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #170
174. Hey- I forgot all about that crash! Thanks for the reminder...
Peace!
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #170
177. Don't be sorry
Edited on Mon Mar-14-05 04:45 PM by hiley
That is very interesting and I thought it was strange at the time.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/2912...
The FAA reported that the plane's registered owner is Jet Place of Tulsa, Okla., a charter company that declined to identify the three crewmembers.

Firefighters recovered all three bodies just north of the tollway this morning.


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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
179. ********* THIS IS THE LAST GANNON WRINKLES THREAD ********
I'm sorry... But this has gone way too far.

Twenty threads... And where are we now? We've got the embarrassing spectacle of DU members linking to blatantly anti-semitic and homophobic websites. These threads have become huge magnets for trolls, eager to make us all look like fools. I never thought I'd see members of this site approving of articles that accuse Rep. Barney Frank of pedophilia. Some people seem to have lost all ability for critical thought.

Twenty threads is enough. I'm locking.
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